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View Full Version : What is an AR-15 good for?


Bert Gamble
04-12-2011, 1:02 PM
Before everyone starts yelling without reading the whole post, I am asking this question because I want one. I have never shot one, but the look of it screams "Buy Me".

My friends are telling me that AR's are useless because they can't be used for hunting. I have never hunted before and have no plans to, unless the SHTF and I have to do it to feed the family.

I tell them I need one in case the Zombies attack. Is there any other reason to get one?

What do you guys do with yours?

I can't really see using it as a home defense weapon.

It seems to me that it is used mostly for fun. A toy for a big boy.

Would getting one in a .308 caliber make it a tool with more uses, or would it just be more expensive to shoot? I have also seen them in .22 LR, but that just seems like a waste of a lot of expensive parts for such a small bang.

I know I don't need anyones approval to get one, but I do try to take advice from people who have more experience.

Thanks
Bert

BoonieGhost
04-12-2011, 1:13 PM
AR's are good for a number of things, and YES you CAN hunt with them as long as you're using a 5rd mag if you are hunting game. AR's are also becoming VERY popular in the Varmint/Predator hunting scene too. Below is a list of Reasons & things they can be used for.

1) Self/Home Defense/ intimidation factor for an intruder.

2) Hunting

3) Modular design (easy to change calibers quickly)

If you get an AR, make sure the barrel is stamped 5.56x45 nato and not .223 Rem. This gives you the ability to use Military & civilian ammo alike, giving you more options.

Nathan Krynn
04-12-2011, 1:20 PM
Different states have different laws but I hunt with mine on many different game animals.

You can switch to a different caliber by just switching uppers to at least 40 calibers (estimate).

I use 6.8 for Florida game (deer and hog). I have seen 400lbs hog taken with 95gr 6.8 hand loads.

I use .223 for ground hog, yote, and prairie dog. I have had 400 rd days for prairie dog days.

You could use 22lr for squirrel, I use a 10/22 but might use an AR next season.

long and short I use the AR platform for all most all my hunting.

Also it is an awesome home defense firearm, especially if you are worried about over penetration and everyone should.

G1500
04-12-2011, 1:25 PM
Before everyone starts yelling without reading the whole post, I am asking this question because I want one. I have never shot one, but the look of it screams "Buy Me".
They all say that.

My friends are telling me that AR's are useless because they can't be used for hunting. I have never hunted before and have no plans to, unless the SHTF and I have to do it to feed the family.
if they are useless for hunting, then that's okay since you don't hunt.

I tell them I need one in case the Zombies attack. Is there any other reason to get one?
Because they are fun, and awesome.

What do you guys do with yours?
pretty much just shoot it, clean it, and look at it.

I can't really see using it as a home defense weapon.
That's nice.

It seems to me that it is used mostly for fun. A toy for a big boy.
Yup.

Would getting one in a .308 caliber make it a tool with more uses, or would it just be more expensive to shoot? I have also seen them in .22 LR, but that just seems like a waste of a lot of expensive parts for such a small bang.
.308 changes it, it costs more to shoot, but can shoot farther, you can hunt with it more successfully than with a .223, many other reasons. The .22lr if a fun item as well. You can get a conversion kit for around $150. Its not always about the size of the bang, but how much fun you have when shooting it. If you only want BIG BOOM, get a .308, or a different rifle, if you want all around fun and usefulness for less money, get a .223 and a .22lr conversion

I know I don't need anyones approval to get one, but I do try to take advice from people who have more experience.
you have my approval

Thanks
You're welcome.
Bert

I'd buy one.

Baconator
04-12-2011, 1:27 PM
Because it makes the anti's nervous.

Sent while watching 45David and boberama get it on.

akjunkie
04-12-2011, 1:29 PM
I'm sure there is NO 5rd limit for centerfire rifles in California.

I'm sure someone else can chime in.

Icypu
04-12-2011, 1:29 PM
I like that the AR-15 can be used in many applications. It is a jack of all trades.

For example

1. If you are only able to go to a range that permits pistol cartridges, you could also use the AR-15 + a 40 S&W or 9mm upper to plink as a carbine.

2. Some people use 7.62 x 39 uppers like from S&W to hunt almost anything.

3. One could also use an AR-15 lower and attach a non firearm Air rifle upper, or a crossbow.

4. If a person wanted to shoot up cinderblock and engineblocks Alexander Arms made a .50 beowulf upper that is similar to .50 AE. It's a massive round that is compatible with the AR-15.

5. Olympic Arms even make super hunting uppers in WSSM calibers.

21SF
04-12-2011, 1:30 PM
AR's are good for a number of things, and YES you CAN hunt with them as long as you're using a 5rd mag if you are hunting game. AR's are also becoming VERY popular in the Varmint/Predator hunting scene too. Below is a list of Reasons & things they can be used for.

1) Self/Home Defense/ intimidation factor for an intruder.

2) Hunting

3) Modular design (easy to change calibers quickly)

If you get an AR, make sure the barrel is stamped 5.56x45 nato and not .223 Rem. This gives you the ability to use Military & civilian ammo alike, giving you more options.


Not in this state....

r3dn3ck
04-12-2011, 1:30 PM
Boonie: Mag capacity restriction you speak of is FUD. Don't spread fud.

You can hunt small game/large game with an ar and any magazine of any capacity that's legal to stick in it. Since you WANT one, you'll be limited to 10 rounds since you won't have a registered assault weapon but instead a california legal Off List Lower.

They're great for home defense, hunting, plinking, looking awesome and getting 6 kinds of mall ninja on with accessories. The interchangeable uppers mean any caliber you want for the most part is within reach (caliber, not cartridge, the AR platform is limited to fairly short cartridges if you want to stay semi-auto so with larger bullets you lose a little of the legendary flat shooting aspect of 5.56/.223).

As home defense you can stuff light quick fragmenting .223 ammo in it or get a 9mm upper and have a 9mm carbine. For plinking, a .22lr upper is super fun and cheap to shoot, and the .223 upper is pretty cheap to shoot in its own right. 6.8mm, 6mmx45 and exotic-y things like 458socom and 500beowulf are really expensive to shoot factory ammo from. You can get one in 7.62x39 and shoot cheap russian ammo till the cows come home.

The point is anyone that thinks that AR's have even the slightest limitation on what they're "good for" among the things you mentioned is mistaken and probably a fool.

You are the weapon, your firearm is a tool.

Iggy
04-12-2011, 1:33 PM
They suck. Don't buy one.


sarcasm

Coded-Dude
04-12-2011, 1:34 PM
AR's are good for a number of things, and YES you CAN hunt with them as long as you're using a 5rd mag if you are hunting game. AR's are also becoming VERY popular in the Varmint/Predator hunting scene too. Below is a list of Reasons & things they can be used for.

1) Self/Home Defense/ intimidation factor for an intruder.

2) Hunting

3) Modular design (easy to change calibers quickly)

If you get an AR, make sure the barrel is stamped 5.56x45 nato and not .223 Rem. This gives you the ability to use Military & civilian ammo alike, giving you more options.

The bolded is untrue. There is no legal round limit stated for hunting(unless you are referring to hunting certain game with shotguns). If you have a rifle and legally posses a 30 round magazine, there is nothing that says you can't hunt with it.

Vtec44
04-12-2011, 1:39 PM
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/14612IMG_1138.JPG

http://thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/odellboar_forweb.jpg

http://www.dpmsinc.com/awards/zone/animals/photos/06-group-large.jpg

supersonic
04-12-2011, 1:40 PM
Also it [AR-15] is an awesome home defense firearm, especially if you are worried about over penetration and everyone should.

Don't you think that sentence is contradicting itself? Centerfire rifle rounds are the last thing you want to be sending downrange ......in your hallway (or anywhere else in the home for that matter!). The ONLY exception to this is with specialized, frangible ammo. But even then it is still a major liability. Stick to a shotgun/pistol combo for HD.

frankm
04-12-2011, 1:41 PM
They're good for killin' commies. As an American, you must buy one!

mls343
04-12-2011, 1:42 PM
While most people will not admit this, an AR-15 just plain looks cool! It's a space age design, although over 50 years old now, that still has the "wow" factor that many outside the sport will either be amazed/interested in or repulsed by.

For me, the AR is a big boy tinker toy that is fun to shoot, reliable enough, and kind of a jack of all trades. Would this be the go to gun for the ever popular SHTF, home defense, or any other of the above mentioned scenarios? Would this be my only rifle if I was limited (somehow) to only having one rifle? The answers, for me anyway, would be no.

With that said, and even in the mighty State of California, anyone who is serious in the shooting sports should probably have, or at least be familuar with, and AR-15.

Again, this is just my $0.2 opinion.

tuna quesadilla
04-12-2011, 1:44 PM
Don't you think that sentence is contradicting itself? Centerfire rifle rounds are the last thing you want to be sending downrange ......in your hallway (or anywhere else in the home for that matter!). The ONLY exception to this is with specialized, frangible ammo. But even then it is still a major liability. Stick to a shotgun/pistol combo for HD.

No. He's correct. You need to do some research on the matter.

calnurse
04-12-2011, 1:46 PM
Because it makes the anti's nervous.

Sent while watching 45David and boberama get it on.

Yes sir :43:!,

Paul_R
04-12-2011, 1:49 PM
Because when a group of friends says "hey let's go shooting" you're the guy who shows up with an AR15. That's right, you're the coolest guy in the group. The Dos Equis guy will have nothing on you at that point....:chris:


Unless someone shows up with a combat lever action rifle...that's always trouble :eek:


:D

Norsemen308
04-12-2011, 1:49 PM
tell your friends that once u buy one... they wont be able to shoot it...

the ar platform was given to us by God, shortly after the Eve debacle...

they are incrediable addicting, i dont know a single person who owns just one LOL. or does not have plans for another, like stated you can use abillion different calipers. a .22 AR is a absolute blast!!

My first Ar was a .308, I hunt alot and I also shoot long distance all the time. But for what your saying. I would get a 5.56/223, ammo is half the friggin price, parts are way more easily accessible and the major difference in the platform is the 5.56 is mil spec (almost ANYone who makes something for the .223 does it to mil specs), The .308 is NOT, meaning, you have to make sure you get the right part, the right buffer, right spring, it turns into a tedious task. Where a .223 you basically can go to anyone website and get everything you need for cheaper! LOL.

trust me after you purchase it..all your buddies will be getting one to!!

OHOD
04-12-2011, 1:53 PM
I originally bought mine because I was reminiscing my stint in the Army back in 83-86. I wanted a rifle I was familiar with, easy and fun to shoot, there are a million modifications and accessories on the market, in a SHTF situation everyone will have one so I want to be one of the cool gals too.

CK_32
04-12-2011, 2:04 PM
Because its an AR15.. It doesnt do anything else any other gun wont do..
Accept for its semi over a bolt action.. But other than that in all honesty is a
cool looking bad as* rifle...

And everyone knows it.. Thats 90% why I bought mine and I know half the
other people bought their AR's..

In all honesty this gun is perfect for war... Will we ever see or be in war doubtful.. But
if it does well be ready.. and we know it will never come.. but they can also
be used for hunting and target shooting.. but their man purpose was war...
and still pretty much is...

other than that we use it for other applications and it works.. because its a
rifle.. But for hunting.. thats what a bolt action was made for.. home
defense/ self defense that's what a hand gun/shot gun is for...


People are going to moan and groan and swear its not for the cool points but
we all know it is.. Owning a AR is bad as*.. I love holding mine because it
just feels and looks great. And anyone that tells you other wise is just a lier.

But it does anything else any other rifle will do.. but its so much fun to shoot and a AR just looks 100 times cooler ;)

Nathan Krynn
04-12-2011, 2:05 PM
Don't you think that sentence is contradicting itself? Centerfire rifle rounds are the last thing you want to be sending downrange ......in your hallway (or anywhere else in the home for that matter!). The ONLY exception to this is with specialized, frangible ammo. But even then it is still a major liability. Stick to a shotgun/pistol combo for HD.

I saw a program on TV one day and it was over penetration test on simulated houses. Drywall on 2x4 frame and then another piece of drywall. That was a "wall" section then they had several of those then an outside wall.

All handgun rounds over penetrated. .223-5.56 did not.

So since we use a private range I tested this myself. My results were the same.

I even had a malfunctioning PPK/S that slam fired on me and the .380 went through my outer wall into the woods. After the tests I saw / did and this experience I will never use a handgun for HD. .223-5.56 and bird shot all the way.

P.S. thank you tuna quesadilla

WARDOG
04-12-2011, 2:06 PM
I have property, and hunt & fish in the Sierra-Nevada Mountains.
I put hundreds of miles on my quad when the snow has melted in the high country.
Due to the dopers, mexican marijuana growers, and meth-cooking freaks I run into in the middle of nowhere, I carry a pistol (or two) and always an AR. Usually a well worn AR-10 carbine, that I can bet my life on.
I am confident that three times in the past ten years it has saved my life.
Once I pulled into a clearing where some cranksters were cooking up some meth in a stolen Johnny -on-the-spot. I stopped within 15 yards of two parolees with pistols on their hips and pitbulls. Once I realized what was going on and I got a whiff of the chemicals, I unslung and flicked the selector to "kill' so fast I caught the cooker's off guard. No words exhanged, I just backed out with 20 rounds ready to rock-n-roll. They looked at me, then at my AR.
Second time, I rolled into a marijuana grow. Their food was still cookin' but nobody was in sight. I was being watched no doubt. I presented my AR-10 and backed out.
Last time, I rolled into a bunch of Russians poaching black bear. I stopped just short of their processing station with a large Russian yelling at me to stop. He had a pistol on his hip. There were at least 20 dogs on a tether, and about 5 others. One was gutting a 40 pound cub in the creek. I saw an AK mag, and a Chinese cotton chest rig on the hood of their flatbed. I hauled ***. I think they may have gotten me if they wanted, but they would have known they were in a fight.
Bad guys don't like a fair fight.
Retreat is best when you can, but presenting an AR with an attitude when necessary can save your life!

Ripon83
04-12-2011, 2:13 PM
My property is further East and North so I'm guessing that is why I never have these problems. Thank God. I've carried one back into our "back country" each year for the last 10 + years. Before that we carried back bolt hunting rifles and I've felt a lot better with the AR for the last decade. I've never encountered anything like this gentlemen, but I've always been worried about it - we are a good 12-16 hour hard and fast ride (by horse) to the nearest known community when we go out...we don't use off road vehicles just the horses.

This year I will leave the AR-15 behind. I'm not worried - there will still be 2 or 3 in the group. I'm taking a lever 357 and matching caliber hand gun. I won't have the same range as the AR-15 but I still feel like its a good combination.



I have property, and hunt & fish in the Sierra-Nevada Mountains.
I put hundreds of miles on my quad when the snow has melted in the high country.
Due to the dopers, mexican marijuana growers, and meth-cooking freaks I run into in the middle of nowhere, I carry a pistol (or two) and always an AR. Usually a well worn AR-10 carbine, that I can bet my life on.
I am confident that three times in the past ten years it has saved my life.
Once I pulled into a clearing where some cranksters were cooking up some meth in a stolen Johnny -on-the-spot. I stopped within 15 yards of two parolees with pistols on their hips and pitbulls. Once I realized what was going on and I got a whiff of the chemicals, I unslung and flicked the selector to "kill' so fast I caught the cooker's off guard. No words exhanged, I just backed out with 20 rounds ready to rock-n-roll. They looked at me, then at my AR.
Second time, I rolled into a marijuana grow. Their food was still cookin' but nobody was in sight. I was being watched no doubt. I presented my AR-10 and backed out.
Last time, I rolled into a bunch of Russians poaching black bear. I stopped just short of their processing station with a large Russian yelling at me to stop. He had a pistol on his hip. There were at least 20 dogs on a tether, and about 5 others. One was gutting a 40 pound cub in the creek. I saw an AK mag, and a Chinese cotton chest rig on the hood of their flatbed. I hauled ***. I think they may have gotten me if they wanted, but they would have known they were in a fight.
Bad guys don't like a fair fight.
Retreat is best when you can, but presenting an AR with an attitude when necessary can save your life!

dieselpower
04-12-2011, 2:24 PM
an AR chambered in 308 has less uses then one chambered in 5.56.

I can hunt small game and large game with a 5.56 chamber. I can defend my home without fear of blasting the neighbor. Its cheaper. There is a single design I can find parts for as apposed to 3 or 4 with different designs I have to choose from and stuck with.

AR15s chambered in 5.56 is the most versatile rifle in the world to date.

elSquid
04-12-2011, 2:26 PM
I saw a program on TV one day and it was over penetration test on simulated houses. Drywall on 2x4 frame and then another piece of drywall. That was a "wall" section then they had several of those then an outside wall.

All handgun rounds over penetrated. .223-5.56 did not.


If it was the same show I saw: it was Personal Defense TV[1], and they were at Gunsite with Ed Head doing the shooting. It was very interesting to watch!

Heck, I wonder if there is a clip from it on youtube...

-- Michael

[1] The host at that time was Tom Gresham; he's a calgunner. :)

JDW67
04-12-2011, 2:29 PM
I scare paper targets with mine...

Knife Edge
04-12-2011, 2:34 PM
Mine keeps my mind off women other than my wife. Needless to say she is super supportive.

MrPlink
04-12-2011, 2:34 PM
I scare paper targets with mine...

me too, they are terrified that one of these days I may actually hit them :D

IPSICK
04-12-2011, 2:34 PM
It is a toy and as much as I get annoyed by those types of threads it is a premier SHTF firearm. I plan on getting into 3-gun at some point in the future so again it is a toy which I believe has practical uses.

In reality, most guns can be considered toys with potential for practical use. I hope to never have to test its practical use but its good to know the capability is there for me.

nmerced
04-12-2011, 2:40 PM
Looks pretty on my bedroom wall.

TurboChrisB
04-12-2011, 2:40 PM
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the AR platform was now the most "Popular" selling hunting rifle....

dieselpower
04-12-2011, 2:47 PM
I remember someone actually planning to build a real house on their property outside of City limits to test things like this. Then just fix all the holes and stuff to live or rent it out.

The State got wind of it (they read forums post too), and sent a letter reminding them discharging a firearm inside or toward a dwelling is illegal. If they wanted to create a testing house for firearms they must gain the proper permits or face EXTREME Penalties.

He posted that he was not going to push the matter. I can not find where I read it. I think it was back east somewhere.

Truth be told the FBI has done these tests and concluded 5.56/.223 JHP will break up on impact with the first hard object. The smaller parts will go through the wall but lack the wounding potential of a handgun round fired through the same wall. The broken up projectiles of a 9mm JHP still have the mass and velocity to critically wound a person on the other side. This doesn't mean a 77gr 5.56x45 will not kill a person on the other side of a wall. It means it has LESS potential to do it. It will draw blood in any case, it just has less potential to inflict a life threatening wound.

hope this clears things up.

oldsmoboat
04-12-2011, 2:52 PM
I bought one because I wanted one.
I plink with it and admire it. I buy ammo at $5.99 a box so it's semi-cheap.

Eventually, I'll get an AR 10 because I want one.
I'll plink a little with it. It will be a shtf weapon.

WDE91
04-12-2011, 2:55 PM
Well 1 "gun" can be used for most of your rifle shooting needs

have a .22lr upper for small game and plinking needs
have a .223 upper for varmints/midish sized game or defense of your family
have a 6.5 or 6.8 upper for a big game needs or for your long range target shooting needs

I cannot think of one single rifle where you can go hunting the morning,plink in the afternoon and defend your family by night

There is good reason why the AR15 is as popular as it is

Lead Waster
04-12-2011, 3:05 PM
Once mine is built, I'll use it for the same thing I use my other rifles and pistols for ... wasting lead to punch paper.

Seriously, why would anyone buy a bowling ball? What is it's purpose? You can't hunt with it and you can't defend you home with one, so why buy one? So you can go bowling and you like bowling.

Coded-Dude
04-12-2011, 3:08 PM
i would think that throwing a bowling ball at an intruder might prove more productive than one thinks(that is if you hit him)...... /sarcasm

Lead Waster
04-12-2011, 3:18 PM
i would think that throwing a bowling ball at an intruder might prove more productive than one thinks(that is if you hit him)...... /sarcasm

Well, it's might over penetrate, depending on the weight, but if you are going to use a bowling ball for HD, then TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN!

Go to a bowling alley and watch the pros, it'll be second nature.

CCW is a total b*tch with a bowling ball though, even the 6 pounders are hard to conceal and not many people make holsters for them.

And remember in CA you are limited to 10 pins.

Bluhdow!
04-12-2011, 3:22 PM
And remember in CA you are limited to 10 pins.

Well played.

xxINKxx
04-12-2011, 3:31 PM
Because when a group of friends says "hey let's go shooting" you're the guy who shows up with an AR15. That's right, you're the coolest guy in the group. The Dos Equis guy will have nothing on you at that point....:chris:


Unless someone shows up with a combat lever action rifle...that's always trouble :eek:


:D

I can relate to that haha. I always go shooting with a offroad club im in. Usually the guys who go shooting arent that into guns (more so with offroading) so they dont own fancy stuff. And alot of people in the club dont even shoot. The yare just there to hang out and offroad after.

Im always thatguy whos into guns and brings my arsenal of black rifles and tactical looking stuff haha. Makes everyone wanna be my friend

Coded-Dude
04-12-2011, 3:32 PM
Well played.


indeed.

mif_slim
04-12-2011, 3:35 PM
Well AR can be used for hunting. And there is no mag limit. I dunno where the 5 round max came from since there's nothing in the regs that states that. It's either 3 max for shotgun hunting game or no max limit for rifles.

But here is a good reason to have a AR:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a105/mif_slim/5d8ac592.jpg

biscuitbarrel
04-12-2011, 3:37 PM
If you are thinking about buying an AR my advice is HURRY UP!!!
Soon you may not be able to buy them anymore. At the least buy some lower receivers and you can build them later.

unusedusername
04-12-2011, 3:45 PM
If you are thinking about buying an AR my advice is HURRY UP!!!
Soon you may not be able to buy them anymore. At the least buy some lower receivers and you can build them later.

FUD. We are winning right now. The sky is not falling.

The nastiest bill right now is IMHO is either the rifle registration bill or the open carry ban, and neither of them will take any guns away (we still need to kill them dead!).

artmachine
04-12-2011, 3:46 PM
"It seems to me that it is used mostly for fun. A toy for a big boy."

THE most obvious reason! and all that other stuff about hunting and shtf.

shoot one. a lot. you'll see.

rojocorsa
04-12-2011, 3:58 PM
FUD. We are winning right now. The sky is not falling.

The nastiest bill right now is IMHO is either the rifle registration bill or the open carry ban, and neither of them will take any guns away (we still need to kill them dead!).

No, but parts are being bought and sold very quickly these days, for many reasons. This isn't the first time I've heard it either.

Sniper3142
04-12-2011, 4:02 PM
An AR15 truly is the Jack of All Trades as someone already mentioned.

It is the most flexible firearm platform in the world.

It can be configured for just about ANY role (Home Defense, Target Shooting, Competition, Hunting, Plinking, etc). The list of calibers available ranges from pistol rounds (22LR, 9mm, 45ACP, etc), all the way up to 50BMG and similar rounds.

You can (without the need for special tools or gunsmithing experience) reconfigure it any way you want. You can change the caliber, barrel length, optics, handguards, grips, etc...

The list of possible configurations is almost to large to post. You can have a 22lr caliber setup for plinking, practice, and small varmit hunting. The standard .223/5.56mm can be used for everything from practice, varmit hunting, target and range use, to HD. For hunting, there are lots of calibers that offer better performance than the standard caliber. 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel can be used to hunt almost any medium sized game on North America. They also extend the effective range of an AR considerably (the 6.5 Grendel can remain accurate out to 1,000 yards or more). Calibers like the .458 Socom, 50 Beowulf, or 450 Bushmaster turn an AR15 into a very hard hitting platform.

And the list goes on...

:D

supersonic
04-12-2011, 4:16 PM
Regardless of the penetration capabilities (I still think without frangible bullets,it is too much of a liability), I would never want to be the one having to explain why I used an AR-15 -and remember, the word "assault rifle" WILL be used by the DA & cops - to defend my home against an intruder. If many remember, there was a guy in Arizona a few years back that was dragged through the fire for using "TOO powerful a round" (10mm) to defend his home with a pistol. He is in the pen as I type this (and it was a clear case of self-defense....and this was in ARIZONA!!)....just imagine what would happen in CA if you used a 5.56 rifle/carbine (especially a BLACK one)!! Until there are proven cases where it will NOT hang you in court, I will stick to already-proven HD weapons (my 870 & 1911)..;)

supersonic
04-12-2011, 4:19 PM
Well AR can be used for hunting. And there is no mag limit. I dunno where the 5 round max came from since there's nothing in the regs that states that. It's either 3 max for shotgun hunting game or no max limit for rifles.

But here is a good reason to have a AR:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a105/mif_slim/5d8ac592.jpg

What size is that monster? What species (brown, I am assuming)? And is that a 5.56? If so, how many rounds did it take, where were the POI's? WOW.:hurray:

Bluhdow!
04-12-2011, 4:19 PM
Since I don't have an AR, I won't be hunting with one. But does the ability to hunt with an AR mean I can hunt with my AK?

Not to get off topic, but now I'm enticed by the idea.

Lead Waster
04-12-2011, 4:25 PM
Since I don't have an AR, I won't be hunting with one. But does the ability to hunt with an AR mean I can hunt with my AK?

Not to get off topic, but now I'm enticed by the idea.

Why wouldn't you be able to?

I hear sporterized (or not) SKS rifles are popular hunting rifles too. And milsurps like .303 British enfields, mosins-nagants, mausers etc etc...

Bluhdow!
04-12-2011, 4:29 PM
Why wouldn't you be able to?

In this state it's just easier to ask for permission rather than beg for forgiveness. But if it's all good, I'm going to take my Arsenal and go blast some animals!

WW2Buff
04-12-2011, 5:01 PM
I use mine for fun plinking, three gun, the occasional CMP shoot and more. Because they look cool? Eh... To be honest I am kind of bored by the AR platform but the fact that they can be built into so many different configurations for different types of shooting makes it an excellent and most importantly functional rifle. That's why I use them.

chesterthehero
04-12-2011, 5:12 PM
They're good for killin' commies. As an American, you must buy one!

that about sums it up

dieselpower
04-12-2011, 5:20 PM
Regardless of the penetration capabilities (I still think without frangible bullets,it is too much of a liability), I would never want to be the one having to explain why I used an AR-15 -and remember, the word "assault rifle" WILL be used by the DA & cops - to defend my home against an intruder. If many remember, there was a guy in Arizona a few years back that was dragged through the fire for using "TOO powerful a round" (10mm) to defend his home with a pistol. He is in the pen as I type this (and it was a clear case of self-defense....and this was in ARIZONA!!)....just imagine what would happen in CA if you used a 5.56 rifle/carbine (especially a BLACK one)!! Until there are proven cases where it will NOT hang you in court, I will stick to already-proven HD weapons (my 870 & 1911)..;)

I would agree with that. Defending yourself with a .357 revolver and hurting a neighbor is acceptable, but doing the same with an AK or AR is not. I would even toss a Glock in there as questionable. Definitely see problems with the AR and AK.

Bobby Ricigliano
04-12-2011, 5:25 PM
Before everyone starts yelling without reading the whole post, I am asking this question because I want one. I have never shot one, but the look of it screams "Buy Me".

My friends are telling me that AR's are useless because they can't be used for hunting. I have never hunted before and have no plans to, unless the SHTF and I have to do it to feed the family.

I tell them I need one in case the Zombies attack. Is there any other reason to get one?

What do you guys do with yours?

I can't really see using it as a home defense weapon.

It seems to me that it is used mostly for fun. A toy for a big boy.

Would getting one in a .308 caliber make it a tool with more uses, or would it just be more expensive to shoot? I have also seen them in .22 LR, but that just seems like a waste of a lot of expensive parts for such a small bang.

I know I don't need anyones approval to get one, but I do try to take advice from people who have more experience.

Thanks
Bert

Many of us with military and LEO backgrounds have spent a lot of time training and developing an affinity for this platform. It just makes sense to have one (or several) that we can call our own. All of the neutering needed to make them Kali-legal can be undone when you make your way to a free state.

JDW67
04-12-2011, 5:25 PM
me too, they are terrified that one of these days I may actually hit them :D

whahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...that made me lol...:D

mif_slim
04-12-2011, 5:27 PM
What size is that monster? What species (brown, I am assuming)? And is that a 5.56? If so, how many rounds did it take, where were the POI's? WOW.

Tool a single shot behind the shoulder. Dropped where it was at and died. Didn't get to put on the scale but it was shot with .223 Winchester 55gr silver tip. Everything inside was jelly.

West9319
04-12-2011, 5:32 PM
Tool a single shot behind the shoulder. Dropped where it was at and died. Didn't get to put on the scale but it was shot with .223 Winchester 55gr silver tip. Everything inside was jelly.

Good shot :cool2:

I had the same argument with one of my buddies and guys in my department. Once I made my point it quieted most of them up and leaving the rest waiting to shoot mine when its done.

I would go as far to say that the ar is the multi tool of the gun world. One lower has so many possibilities. Heck you can even get a .410 shotgun upper. To be able to shoot pistol, rifle, rimfire, and shotgun shells just by pulling two pins and swapping mags (for the most part) to fulfill any need is all the reason to get one. And of course like everyone else said you can configure it with any stock, grip, sight/optic, and forend you want.

1lowluv
04-12-2011, 5:36 PM
I used mine to hold the hood up on my truck the other day. It's was nice having the adjustable stock!

NapaPlinker
04-12-2011, 5:36 PM
AR's are good for a number of things, and YES you CAN hunt with them as long as you're using a 5rd mag if you are hunting game. AR's are also becoming VERY popular in the Varmint/Predator hunting scene too. Below is a list of Reasons & things they can be used for.

1) Self/Home Defense/ intimidation factor for an intruder.

2) Hunting

3) Modular design (easy to change calibers quickly)

If you get an AR, make sure the barrel is stamped 5.56x45 nato and not .223 Rem. This gives you the ability to use Military & civilian ammo alike, giving you more options.

That whole five round thing is a myth. btw

IPSICK
04-12-2011, 5:36 PM
Tool a single shot behind the shoulder. Dropped where it was at and died. Didn't get to put on the scale but it was shot with .223 Winchester 55gr silver tip. Everything inside was jelly.

What distance? Even I was skeptical of an AR as a hunting rifle, but these pics are making me change my opinion.

West9319
04-12-2011, 5:53 PM
I used mine to hold the hood up on my truck the other day. It's was nice having the adjustable stock!

+1 for usefulness

mif_slim
04-12-2011, 5:53 PM
~80 yards. Not too far but did the job.

Write Winger
04-12-2011, 5:54 PM
I wanted to have one before I couldn't, in case we fail in the courts (or if the courts are ignored).

But among all the reasons stated, i have mine in case of civil unrest, and to protect my family from criminals and tyrants.

pyro3k2
04-12-2011, 5:59 PM
Tool a single shot behind the shoulder. Dropped where it was at and died. Didn't get to put on the scale but it was shot with .223 Winchester 55gr silver tip. Everything inside was jelly.

umm...i've been out hunting boar and came across a bear once around that size, I have a hard time buy the "it only took one shot" line.

hornswaggled
04-12-2011, 6:06 PM
During the North Hollywood shootout, LAPD was running into gun stores demanding AR-15s. 'Nuff said.

mif_slim
04-12-2011, 6:21 PM
umm...i've been out hunting boar and came across a bear once around that size, I have a hard time buy the "it only took one shot" line.

It's fine that you have a hard time. Its not me to judge your thoughts, but I know what happen. Remember that it is all shot placement. A 338 lapua won't kill a bear if vitals are not hit. ;)

AM9000
04-12-2011, 6:26 PM
My first centerfire rifle was a LMT AR-15.
I am still amazed at how accurate it is. I am looking into buying a bolt gun, but I am afraid that even if it is more accurate than the AR, I wont feel like its worth the money because my AR is such a joy to shoot and is so accurate.

What are they good for? Anything you would need an accurate semi auto rifle for. (Killin them Chi-Comms). (just kiddin).

Paul_R
04-12-2011, 6:29 PM
umm...i've been out hunting boar and came across a bear once around that size, I have a hard time buy the "it only took one shot" line.

Me too but I think the picture is a bit deceptive. The head makes it look pretty big but the whole thing appears to be about the length of the AR. Look at the cooler for perspective as well. It doesn't look like a big bear to me and I don't doubt that a .223 took it down just like the poster said.

pyro3k2
04-12-2011, 6:43 PM
Me too but I think the picture is a bit deceptive. The head makes it look pretty big but the whole thing appears to be about the length of the AR. Look at the cooler for perspective as well. It doesn't look like a big bear to me and I don't doubt that a .223 took it down just like the poster said.

True on further review that does look to be a rather small bear.

G1500
04-12-2011, 6:57 PM
Since I don't have an AR, I won't be hunting with one. But does the ability to hunt with an AR mean I can hunt with my AK?

Not to get off topic, but now I'm enticed by the idea.

You could hunt with a ninja sword if you wanted to.

Blue Ridge Reef
04-12-2011, 7:10 PM
As has been said, the AR is very versatile. And cool. And pretty darn easy to get competent with quickly. I just built one completely from Calguns marketplace for the impending zombie invasion:


http://i55.tinypic.com/10gd9ts.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/el9rms.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/jkx0yw.jpg
Almost everything imaginable is either made or can be fashioned for an AR15, we've all see the "Hello Kitty" AR. They are simply cool and very fun to shoot. In all the talk about calibers, stopping power, practicality, we often overlook what got most of into guns in the first place -shooting is FUN. Shooting an AR15 is extra fun. I would not think twice about grabbing this "big boy toy" if my home were being invaded or faced with multiple threats, etc. It's awfully easy to put rounds where you want them quickly with that rig.

Dion
04-12-2011, 7:19 PM
I don't own one - I'd like to someday but there are a handful of guns first in the queue that, to me, are far more interesting:

1. Cheapo Single Shot .410 shotgun (truck gun)
2. 9mm Carbine
3. Lever Action in a pistol caliber
4. Smith and Wesson M&P 15/22
5. Draco Pistol

etc.

Believe me, AR's are cool... but I have others on my list ahead of one.

supersonic
04-12-2011, 7:28 PM
Since I don't have an AR, I won't be hunting with one. But does the ability to hunt with an AR mean I can hunt with my AK?

Absolutely not!! The AK (at reasonable distances & in brush under 100 yds.) is a great hog hunter. That fat,.30 caliber 123-grain bullet is perfect medicine for that tough hide. And the beauty of it is the instant follow-up shots you have at your disposal just in case. What's not to love about that?

INJUNTOM
04-12-2011, 7:37 PM
Tagged

themailman
04-12-2011, 8:03 PM
Nothing. Get an Ak47. Ar15's jam all the time, the 5.56 is weak and basically a .22magnum, and it needs a piston to even work 50% of the time.

G1500
04-12-2011, 8:47 PM
I don't own one - I'd like to someday but there are a handful of guns first in the queue that, to me, are far more interesting:

1. Cheapo Single Shot .410 shotgun (truck gun)
2. 9mm Carbine
3. Lever Action in a pistol caliber
4. Smith and Wesson M&P 15/22
5. Draco Pistol

etc.

Believe me, AR's are cool... but I have others on my list ahead of one.

You can get an upper/conversion kit for all of them or something comparable. But to each his own.

iskra31
04-12-2011, 8:49 PM
Ultimate Home Defense-AR-15 with a .410 Upper :73:
Why has no one mentioned this yet?
AR-15's can't be for home defense...I'm ashamed in all of you!

Bert Gamble
04-12-2011, 9:02 PM
Thanks all.

Now at least now I know I'm not the only one who wants one just because they are cool.

If I get one, it will most likely be my only rifle. If I don't get one, I will most likely not have a rifle.

Is it better for a guy with no experience to buy one off the shelf, or try to piece one together? I don't even know what all the parts are. Is there a big price difference?

iskra31
04-12-2011, 9:09 PM
Thanks all.

Now at least now I know I'm not the only one who wants one just because they are cool.

If I get one, it will most likely be my only rifle. If I don't get one, I will most likely not have a rifle.

Is it better for a guy with no experience to buy one off the shelf, or try to piece one together? I don't even know what all the parts are. Is there a big price difference?

I didn't know too much till I joined the forum and did the research. Saved me about $200-$300 building my own. Very easy to do with household tools

bombadillo
04-12-2011, 9:17 PM
Oh what CAN'T they do is the real question!!!

After deciding that they're dead sexy in any configuration, look at what they're capable of. You can go with a 14.5" 22lr upper to plink and pretend while being tacticool

You can slap on a 16" .223 upper (on the same gun mind you, some of the beauty in that) and range shoot out to a few hundred yards comfortably. Optics maybe even further.

You can hunt with them for varmint with a .204 ruger upper, a .223 match upper with Bull Barrel, or even a 220 swift. These are all superb varmint rounds.

You can deer hunt with a 6.8spc cartridge and take out legal game with either the 6.8, 243, 270, or other hunting calibers available to us. (However you may need a new lower to match up on these rounds)

You can go entry style and get a .458 Socom or a .50 Beowolf and rock the house. These are pig hunting, bear stoppers that have dang near what a shotgun slug packs. Not much are you gonna want to hide behind when shooting one.


Other random pros; you can take them down to two piece and pack easily if its a short barrel for SHTF, they're only sub 5lbs for a light build like the one I just did. You can barbie them up and make them tacticool with a rail and a bunch of boy toys that you can slap on there but I think are ridiculous.

You can set up a 1k yard competition rifle from white oak precision, JP, or others to do matches at a thousand yards. These guys shoot that well.

You can make a rifle that will be sub 600 yard match ranges. Go see what BigBamBoo can do with his JP rifles at a few hundred yards or more. It'll amaze you.

You can slap a .416 Barrett/Ferret Fifty on it in .510 DTC, .338 Lapua Mag or other big bore to get you shooting to 1500 meters with glass and a spotter. These things will reach out and touch somebody.

Soooooooooo! Not what can you do with one, but what can't you do with one, thats the real question.

titankeith
04-12-2011, 9:19 PM
Mine keeps my mind off women other than my wife. Needless to say she is super supportive.

LOL!!

titankeith
04-12-2011, 9:21 PM
I bought mine because I wanted a rifle and was trained with the AR platform in the Marines...I knew I could shoot it well...I have also blown the hell out of gophers with it, and would like to try it on Coyotes and deer....I just got a nice Nikon M-223 Scope for it, and it rocks!

Blue Ridge Reef
04-12-2011, 9:25 PM
I built my first. It's really not too hard if you get a complete upper. Before building your lower, just open any of the step by step threads and watch a Youtube video of it first. It seems like a mind-boggling list of tiny parts and springs, but it's actually very simple. Just do it in order. You can polish your trigger and hammer assemblies and make them smoother which makes a big difference. It's not only rewarding putting your own rifle together, but it makes you much more comfortable with it. Your understanding of the functions will be clear and you'll be better able to work on it down the road. You like the guns you buy, but you love the guns you build.

Sonic_mike
04-12-2011, 9:33 PM
I built my first. It's really not too hard if you get a complete upper. Before building your lower, just open any of the step by step threads and watch a Youtube video of it first. It seems like a mind-boggling list of tiny parts and springs, but it's actually very simple. Just do it in order. You can polish your trigger and hammer assemblies and make them smoother which makes a big difference. It's not only rewarding putting your own rifle together, but it makes you much more comfortable with it. Your understanding of the functions will be clear and you'll be better able to work on it down the road. You like the guns you buy, but you love the guns you build.

Yup +1

Bert Gamble
04-12-2011, 9:37 PM
Not to change the subject, but I have a question that changes the subject.

Can a parent in another state (Idaho) give me their AR that is not California legal, or would that be against the law? How about other guns that are not on the Ca list?

How long would you say a parent would have to own one of these weapons before giving it to a loving son (to avoid the appearance of impropriety) on his birthday?

woods
04-12-2011, 9:37 PM
I know for a fact that a 77 grain sierra will knock a deer flat dead in one shot given heart/lung/head placement. CA deer are small little creatures. For that matter a FiveseveN with 40gr vmax took a pig not that long ago.

I myself hunt with either my .338WinMag Rem 700 XCR or my Rem 700 .243Win both reach out to 1000 yards with great accuracy but I choose to take my game within 100 yards. Even with a massive bullet I would hesitate past 300 yards if given the opportunity, you just don't know how the wind is going to blow and what's going to happen between your shoulder and the beast. I'd hate to take a bad shot and wound an animal.

bubbapug1
04-12-2011, 9:49 PM
You can talk to it when no one else will listen.

FourLoko
04-12-2011, 9:57 PM
I'm not sure because I have yet to shoot one. I did pay for two stripped lowers today on the urging of an AR-owning family member. Let the battle begin!

Dreaded Claymore
04-12-2011, 10:03 PM
Because when a group of friends says "hey let's go shooting" you're the guy who shows up with an AR15. That's right, you're the coolest guy in the group. The Dos Equis guy will have nothing on you at that point....:chris:


Unless someone shows up with a combat lever action rifle...that's always trouble :eek:

I see what you did there!

G1500
04-12-2011, 10:15 PM
Not to change the subject, but I have a question that changes the subject.

Can a parent in another state (Idaho) give me their AR that is not California legal, or would that be against the law? How about other guns that are not on the Ca list?

How long would you say a parent would have to own one of these weapons before giving it to a loving son (to avoid the appearance of impropriety) on his birthday?

Depending on why it is not CA legal depends on whether or not they can give it to you. There is no time limit for ownership.

Spirit 1
04-12-2011, 10:31 PM
Tool a single shot behind the shoulder. Dropped where it was at and died. Didn't get to put on the scale but it was shot with .223 Winchester 55gr silver tip. Everything inside was jelly.

I had to call a Fish & Game guy because of a bear incident. He wanted to come in & have dinner with me. No, not Fish & Game, the blasted bear, coming in through my window!

I wanted to establish an incident report in case I had to shoot him [the bear]. Talked about bears with F&G guy, and about one that they'd been called out to control after it took some livestock and threatened people. Asked him what they used to take down the sow & 2 cubs, and he said F&G doesn't do the shooting anymore, but calls in special sharpshooters from 'down south'. Asked what they used and he said AR-15 type, in 5.56!

Asked again a couple of times to be sure what he was saying, and according to him ALL F&G animal control work on any game, including bears, is AR-15 & 5.56!

ChrisO
04-12-2011, 10:38 PM
This is untrue^^^ I know a few game wardens personally and shoot with one on a regular basis and have gotten a chance to shoot the current issue weapons for DFG and it is a M1a (could have been a m14, semi auto only) in a Sage EBR chasis and a aimpoint T1 optic. Shotguns are Remington 870's,sidearms are glock 22's . I have seen a very angry bear taken down by dfg and used a remington 870.

supersonic
04-12-2011, 11:00 PM
Ar15's jam all the time, the 5.56 is weak and basically a .22magnum, and it needs a piston to even work 50% of the time.

:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:....Hehe...good one.:sleeping:

tuna quesadilla
04-13-2011, 12:16 AM
Regardless of the penetration capabilities (I still think without frangible bullets,it is too much of a liability), I would never want to be the one having to explain why I used an AR-15 -and remember, the word "assault rifle" WILL be used by the DA & cops - to defend my home against an intruder. If many remember, there was a guy in Arizona a few years back that was dragged through the fire for using "TOO powerful a round" (10mm) to defend his home with a pistol. He is in the pen as I type this (and it was a clear case of self-defense....and this was in ARIZONA!!)....just imagine what would happen in CA if you used a 5.56 rifle/carbine (especially a BLACK one)!! Until there are proven cases where it will NOT hang you in court, I will stick to already-proven HD weapons (my 870 & 1911)..;)

Okay first the overpenetration myth and now this? Please stop... just stop. Harold Fish is a free man as of 2009. Not only was he released from prison but his conviction was overturned. He is absolutely NOT "still in the pen." He also wasn't in his home; he was out hiking when he was attacked by a homeless man.

BTW, the law has been changed in AZ since the Fish incident and now the burden is on the State to prove that your life WASN'T in danger. Never in a million years will there be another Fish fiasco. :43:

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/justice/harold_fish_released_07_21_2009

http://azdailysun.com/news/local/article_b359b204-65a3-533a-84b1-b38470e1b916.html

Bert Gamble
04-13-2011, 4:05 AM
I think I will get the AR for fun, and stick with a handgun or shotgun for home protection.

If I get one that is set up for .22, I can save some money up front and still get a .223 barrel later.

Will most likely buy one ready made from a dealer. Can anyone recommend a place that is reasonably priced in the Bay Area or Sacramento?

I am getiing excited about this.

supersonic
04-13-2011, 4:54 AM
Okay first the overpenetration myth and now this? Please stop... just stop. Harold Fish is a free man as of 2009. Not only was he released from prison but his conviction was overturned. He is absolutely NOT "still in the pen." He also wasn't in his home; he was out hiking when he was attacked by a homeless man.

BTW, the law has been changed in AZ since the Fish incident and now the burden is on the State to prove that your life WASN'T in danger. Never in a million years will there be another Fish fiasco. :43:

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/justice/harold_fish_released_07_21_2009

http://azdailysun.com/news/local/article_b359b204-65a3-533a-84b1-b38470e1b916.html

You failed to add the fact that he still did 3 years in the pen. And the law is being changed in Arizona, which has nothing to do with California's much more harsh penalties & political climate on the use of lethal force. But you go ahead and keep that AR next to you at night if you feel that makes you safer. We'll see how well that plays out for you in this state if/when you have to use it for HD.;)

Nathan Krynn
04-13-2011, 6:33 AM
You failed to add the fact that he still did 3 years in the pen. And the law is being changed in Arizona, which has nothing to do with California's much more harsh penalties & political climate on the use of lethal force. But you go ahead and keep that AR next to you at night if you feel that makes you safer. We'll see how well that plays out for you in this state if/when you have to use it for HD.;)


Every SWAT team I know has sold or lock up their MP-5's and switched to AR-15's for a reason. They do not over penetrate. They hit a drywall section and fragment and deflect and we are not talking fragmentation rounds but ball ammo. I have seen it with my own MKII's.

If as .380 will leave the house imagine what a .45 will do. Most cops these days (at least here) carry AR-15's in the car and are familiar with them. They would also rather you not take out your neighbor.

While some dumb *** prosecutor may try to do things like what happened to Fish they will fail in the long run, they will put you in prison for good for killing the kid next door with a .45 or buck shot that left your house as you are responsible for any bullet you shoot.

Flat out any pistol round I have ever seen over penetrates and so does all shotgun rounds except bird shot. A 5.56 does not.

supersonic
04-13-2011, 7:50 AM
Every SWAT team I know has sold or lock up their MP-5's and switched to AR-15's for a reason. They do not over penetrate. They hit a drywall section and fragment and deflect and we are not talking fragmentation rounds but ball ammo. I have seen it with my own MKII's.

If as .380 will leave the house imagine what a .45 will do. Most cops these days (at least here) carry AR-15's in the car and are familiar with them. They would also rather you not take out your neighbor.

While some dumb *** prosecutor may try to do things like what happened to Fish they will fail in the long run, they will put you in prison for good for killing the kid next door with a .45 or buck shot that left your house as you are responsible for any bullet you shoot.

Flat out any pistol round I have ever seen over penetrates and so does all shotgun rounds except bird shot. A 5.56 does not.

What you are responding to has nothing to do with overpenetration anymore. What was being debated was stigma regarding what will likely happen if a certain type of weapon is used in California. I know that you are going to want to debate my posting responses to 'tuna' because he backed you up earlier, but the fact is that in Florida (which is where you are) laws & stigma dealing with firearms are completely a different story. You don't have to deal with (or worry about) that. Right now, at this time & in this political/legal/social/media-driven climate in California, it would be simply a bad idea to use an AR-15 for HD. That's just the way it is. Or, it is what it is (take your pick). And if we want to delve back into the intricacies of overpenetration, why don't we take a look at actual statistics: can anyone provide a link to (or proof of) any HD case in which a person outside the defender's home was injured/hit or killed by a shotgun/handgun projectile fired from inside the residence? Let's say, in the last 100 years. Anybody?:confused:

email
04-13-2011, 7:53 AM
If you have an A2 stock, they can paddle a boat pretty good, too.

Nathan Krynn
04-13-2011, 8:10 AM
What you are responding to has nothing to do with overpenetration anymore. What was being debated was stigma regarding what will likely happen if a certain type of weapon is used in California. I know that you are going to want to debate my posting responses to 'tuna' because he backed you up earlier, but the fact is that in Florida (which is where you are) laws & stigma dealing with firearms are completely a different story. You don't have to deal with (or worry about) that. Right now, at this time & in this political/legal/social/media-driven climate in California, it would be simply a bad idea to use an AR-15 for HD. That's just the way it is. Or, it is what it is (take your pick). And if we want to delve back into the intricacies of overpenetration, why don't we take a look at actual statistics: can anyone provide a link to (or proof of) any HD case in which a person outside the defender's home was injured/hit or killed by a shotgun/handgun projectile fired from inside the residence? Let's say, in the last 100 years. Anybody?:confused:

You are correct on me not being in CA.

However over penetration is not a myth and even happened a few years ago in my tiny town during a home invasion. I just asked one of the owners of our company (who is a SGT in the local PD) and he named off a case in less then a min. He did not want me posting more then this though.

Fact is it happens a lot. I would suggest looking things like this up you are responsible for you shots and under stress most people miss and that means the rounds are leaving your house under most circumstances.

If you are worried about it I would switch to bird shot. It doesn't over penetrate and is one of the nastiest things in HD ranges.

WW2Buff
04-13-2011, 8:53 AM
I think I will get the AR for fun, and stick with a handgun or shotgun for home protection.

If I get one that is set up for .22, I can save some money up front and still get a .223 barrel later.

You do not need a different barrel to shoot .22, you can just buy a conversion kit which consists of a new BCG and magazine. Though dedicated rifles tend to be more accurate.

Will most likely buy one ready made from a dealer. Can anyone recommend a place that is reasonably priced in the Bay Area or Sacramento?

Check out River City Gun Exchange in Sacramento. Good guys and they always have a varied and large selection.



In bold.

donw
04-13-2011, 9:08 AM
i recently "took the plunge" and purchased an AR myself.

i chose to go with a .22lr dedicated upper and got 5.56 uppers to go with it because the cost of the ammo and the bullet button on semi-auto AR issue here in the PRK (i did purchase a bullet button for use when i wish to use the 5.56 upper)

I'm finding that the AR platform is probably the most versatile platform to come along since the advent of the 1911 ACP and M1 Garand rifle.

legislators are beside themselves due to the phenomenon of the AR but i believe they're going to, and are, lose.

it took me a long time to accept the AR platform because of the failures of the M16 in Vietnam.

that being said...I'm finding that the AR can be a PRECISION shooting tool as well as a rugged, dependable arm to do just about anything you choose. it can change from open iron sights to wear the most expensive sophisticated optics available in minutes. it can hunt with the best of the Weatherbys and plink with the best of the .22's...:Ivan:

bombadillo
04-13-2011, 9:21 AM
Every SWAT team I know has sold or lock up their MP-5's and switched to AR-15's for a reason. They do not over penetrate. They hit a drywall section and fragment and deflect and we are not talking fragmentation rounds but ball ammo. I have seen it with my own MKII's.

If as .380 will leave the house imagine what a .45 will do. Most cops these days (at least here) carry AR-15's in the car and are familiar with them. They would also rather you not take out your neighbor.

While some dumb *** prosecutor may try to do things like what happened to Fish they will fail in the long run, they will put you in prison for good for killing the kid next door with a .45 or buck shot that left your house as you are responsible for any bullet you shoot.

Flat out any pistol round I have ever seen over penetrates and so does all shotgun rounds except bird shot. A 5.56 does not.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

Check this out for a good read.

Naw, I know this guy is just some old fart who shoots at drywall and things like that, but its a relatively effective test in general to show the power of a 5.56 round going through walls. They WILL pass through walls and none of the SWAT or local PD guys will tell you they shoot frangible rounds. I see Hornady TAP and Black Hills .223 Match here locally going through the departments. 5.56 will EASILY penetrate 3-4 walls or more and have no problem plugging someone in the head after that. They have a lot more potency than a lot of people give them credit for but they will do the job. I wouldn't say a .45 will go through more or less than a .223 round will but I wouldn't want to stand even 4 walls past either one of them.

jmg14
04-13-2011, 10:07 AM
To the OP be careful if you buy a .22 first. The s&w m&p 15/22 and colt dedicated .22 won't accept mil-spec .223 uppers. IMHO the cheapest, best and most rewarding route is to build a lower and get whatever uppers you want from there. Be warned that it is difficult to have only one lower and multiple uppers. You just might have to have another lower. Just research plenty til you feel confident about it.

Untamed1972
04-13-2011, 10:10 AM
They are good for protecting the free world and hunting bad guys and have been used as such since the 1960s!

motorwerks
04-13-2011, 10:26 AM
AR's are useless..... give them all to me!

Paul_R
04-13-2011, 10:39 AM
Every SWAT team I know has sold or lock up their MP-5's and switched to AR-15's for a reason. They do not over penetrate. They hit a drywall section and fragment and deflect and we are not talking fragmentation rounds but ball ammo. I have seen it with my own MKII's.

If as .380 will leave the house imagine what a .45 will do. Most cops these days (at least here) carry AR-15's in the car and are familiar with them. They would also rather you not take out your neighbor.

While some dumb *** prosecutor may try to do things like what happened to Fish they will fail in the long run, they will put you in prison for good for killing the kid next door with a .45 or buck shot that left your house as you are responsible for any bullet you shoot.

Flat out any pistol round I have ever seen over penetrates and so does all shotgun rounds except bird shot. A 5.56 does not.
Do yourself a favor and take some sheet rock and plywood to the range and debunk your own myths because if you're right our enemies will surely be making their body armor out of sheetrock and soon! :rolleyes:

bombadillo
04-13-2011, 10:44 AM
Do yourself a favor and take some sheet rock and plywood to the range and debunk your own myths because if you're right our enemies will surely be making their body armor out of sheetrock...:rolleyes:

He's not saying that AR-15's over penetrate. He's simply saying politically for many other reasons they aren't an ideal home defense weapon jeesh. :rolleyes: There are much better options that aren't attached to an ideal of "big clips" and garbage that has to do with video games rather than a functional tool. It is going to be a lot easier to win a home defense case in California with an 870 with wood furniture than an AR series rifle just because of the sheeple and their pre-conceived notions of what a rifle does by the looks of it.

Lead Waster
04-13-2011, 10:47 AM
I think .223 Rem is one of the (it not THE) cheapest centerfire cartridges around. Plentiful and cheap ... what's not to like?

Paul_R
04-13-2011, 10:48 AM
He's not saying that AR-15's over penetrate. He's simply saying politically for many other reasons they aren't an ideal home defense weapon jeesh. :rolleyes: There are much better options that aren't attached to an ideal of "big clips" and garbage that has to do with video games rather than a functional tool. It is going to be a lot easier to win a home defense case in California with an 870 with wood furniture than an AR series rifle just because of the sheeple and their pre-conceived notions of what a rifle does by the looks of it.

I agree completely, I quoted supersonic by mistake at first. My cover is blown, credibility....gone! :D

mariodesmo
04-13-2011, 11:00 AM
I'm sure there is NO 5rd limit for centerfire rifles in California.

I'm sure someone else can chime in.

There is no 5 round limit for hunting rifles in California.
Example; the Winchester lever action model 94 has taken more deer than any other rifle, and has a tube magazine that holds 7 rounds or .30-.30.

goodlookin1
04-13-2011, 11:27 AM
Every SWAT team I know has sold or lock up their MP-5's and switched to AR-15's for a reason. They do not over penetrate. They hit a drywall section and fragment and deflect and we are not talking fragmentation rounds but ball ammo. I have seen it with my own MKII's.

If as .380 will leave the house imagine what a .45 will do. Most cops these days (at least here) carry AR-15's in the car and are familiar with them. They would also rather you not take out your neighbor.

While some dumb *** prosecutor may try to do things like what happened to Fish they will fail in the long run, they will put you in prison for good for killing the kid next door with a .45 or buck shot that left your house as you are responsible for any bullet you shoot.

Flat out any pistol round I have ever seen over penetrates and so does all shotgun rounds except bird shot. A 5.56 does not.

Not to negate what you're saying, because my test wasnt "scientific", but i'll give you my story anyways:

At my work, we had to build a bank teller line. You can imagine that they wanted a pretty beefy counter for this, and wanted it to be bullet resistant. They spec'ed out this thing REALLY beefy....this is what it had looking at it from the profile if you cut it in half: 1" MDF, 1/4" bullet resistant plexiglass, about 3" of empty space, then finally two sheets of 3/4" MDF laid up on top of each other. All in all, this thing was SUPER heavy and was dang near 6" thick.

Well, at the end of the job, we had an extra section of this thing laying in the shop because it was a mock up for approval. It was about 3 feet wide and 4 feet tall. We decided to test how "bullet resistant" this thing really was! I brought my .45 ACP 5" 1911, someone else brought their 9mm S&W, and I brought in my 16" AR15. All of the 9mm and .45ACP rounds hit the front of the 1" MDF and stuck in it, having the nose of the bullet touching but not breaking through the 1/4" bullet resistant plexiglass. The plexi was spider-cracked on the other side, but none of the handgun rounds ever made it through.....even after hitting the same spot multiple times.

Then came the AR15: I had handloaded the rounds at 24 Grains of Ramshot TAC using an Armscor 62 gr FMJBT. We shot it from about 15-20 feet away. The results: The freaking little bullet went all the way through the 1" MDF, pierced through the 1/4" bullet resistant plexiglass, passed through the 2 layers of laid up 3/4" MDF (1.5" total), and than dug another 6" into a pile of hardwood sitting behind the dang teller line! Good thing that wood was behind it because it would have hit the cement wall behind it and ricocheted only God knows where! When we dug it out of the wood, it had barely deformed at all, just slightly bent in the middle and slightly flattened at the nose.

Needless to say, that little .223 round gave me a much higher level of respect for what that little cartridge can do. Now, I'm sure you can get different types of rounds that will fragment a lot better or not travel so deeply, but generally, I just find it difficult to believe that a pistol round can come even close to the penetration of a rifle round. Not saying it cant happen....after all, this wasnt a repeated, scientific, measured test....but it served as evidence in my mind supporting the idea that an AR15 round really can penetrate very deep...much further than what it was intended to go into (and stop). In my mind, sheet rock in houses might as well be a piece of paper with that little .223 round, as I have "tested" it against much harder and thicker materials.

YMMV

IPSICK
04-13-2011, 11:41 AM
...
If you are worried about it I would switch to bird shot. It doesn't over penetrate and is one of the nastiest things in HD ranges.

I thought birdshot has problems penetrating a human target. I'll stick with buckshot even if it might over-penetrate, it is more likely to stop my adversary.

elSquid
04-13-2011, 1:32 PM
Do yourself a favor and take some sheet rock and plywood to the range and debunk your own myths because if you're right our enemies will surely be making their body armor out of sheetrock and soon! :rolleyes:

FWIW:

This is a fairly old article...

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=26

Also...

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=44869

Keep in mind that over the past 20 years, the vast majority of the 5.56mm/.223 loads we tested have exhibited significantly less penetration than 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and 12 ga. shotgun projectiles after first penetrating through interior walls. Stray 5.56mm/.223 bullets seem to offer a reduced risk of injuring innocent bystanders and an inherent reduced risk of civil litigation in situations where bullets miss their intended target and enter or exit structures, thus 5.56mm/.223 caliber weapons may be safer to use in CQB situations, home defense scenarios, and in crowded urban environments than handgun service caliber or 12 ga. weapons

YMMV...

-- Michael

Nathan Krynn
04-13-2011, 2:36 PM
I thought birdshot has problems penetrating a human target. I'll stick with buckshot even if it might over-penetrate, it is more likely to stop my adversary.


The ugliest thing I have ever seen is a guys skin peeled off his face from bird shot.

Think about it in CQB situation bird shot is only going to open up to fist size and that is 1.25 oz of lead.

motorwerks
04-13-2011, 2:57 PM
The ugliest thing I have ever seen is a guys skin peeled off his face from bird shot.

Think about it in CQB situation bird shot is only going to open up to fist size and that is 1.25 oz of lead.

Yup may not kill him BUT it will tear enough skin off of him to make him rethink the bad he is doing.

Paul_R
04-13-2011, 3:09 PM
FWIW:

This is a fairly old article...

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=26

Also...

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=44869

Keep in mind that over the past 20 years, the vast majority of the 5.56mm/.223 loads we tested have exhibited significantly less penetration than 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and 12 ga. shotgun projectiles after first penetrating through interior walls. Stray 5.56mm/.223 bullets seem to offer a reduced risk of injuring innocent bystanders and an inherent reduced risk of civil litigation in situations where bullets miss their intended target and enter or exit structures, thus 5.56mm/.223 caliber weapons may be safer to use in CQB situations, home defense scenarios, and in crowded urban environments than handgun service caliber or 12 ga. weapons

YMMV...

-- Michael

You do realize that the "article" you quoted is just some anonymous guy posting on an internet forum don't you :D

As for the the first article from a company trying to sell AR15's to LE, it gives a solid "maybe" to the over penetration capabilities of a .223 round. I remain solidly unconvinced.....Maybe. ;)

pyro3k2
04-13-2011, 3:10 PM
I think .223 Rem is one of the (it not THE) cheapest centerfire cartridges around. Plentiful and cheap ... what's not to like?

5.45x39 is cheaper still, thats why everyone should own an AK74

pdugan6
04-13-2011, 3:47 PM
I'm sure there is NO 5rd limit for centerfire rifles in California.

I'm sure someone else can chime in.

For hunting A game animal you cannot have more than 5 round in the firearm.

elSquid
04-13-2011, 3:51 PM
You do realize that the "article" you quoted is just some anonymous guy posting on an internet forum don't you :D


Sorry - I'm not sure if you're joking or not. If you aren't joking, DOCGKR is pretty well known.

Here's a presentation he did on 6.8SPC for the military:

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Roberts.pdf

That has some of his background.

-- Michael

pyro3k2
04-13-2011, 3:52 PM
For hunting A game animal you cannot have more than 5 round in the firearm.

I think you should call fish and game. As said in a phone conversation and all of the game wardens I have run into, they don't care how much is in your RIFLE as long as you are using the correct bullets for the hunting zone you are in, Shotgun is another story.

winxp_man
04-13-2011, 4:11 PM
For hunting A game animal you cannot have more than 5 round in the firearm.


You can have 10 rounds which is the most you can carry for anything in this state. (exception of pre-ban)

winxp_man
04-13-2011, 4:12 PM
And as for what AR's are good for " EVERYTHING " :D The question is what are they not good for ?!?!?!?!? Riddle me that! :D

Coded-Dude
04-13-2011, 4:14 PM
For hunting A game animal you cannot have more than 5 round in the firearm.

cite please?

Coded-Dude
04-13-2011, 4:15 PM
You can have 10 rounds with is that most you can carry for anything in this state.

also wrong. if you legally own high cap rounds and have a rifle for which they can be legally used on......there is no stated limit.

themailman
04-13-2011, 4:16 PM
And as for what AR's are good for " EVERYTHING " :D The question is what are they not good for ?!?!?!?!? Riddle me that! :D

anything.

pullnshoot25
04-13-2011, 4:19 PM
Everything.

winxp_man
04-13-2011, 4:19 PM
also wrong. if you legally own high cap rounds and have a rifle for which they can be legally used on......there is no stated limit.


Well I referred to the ones we can now purchase not the rifles and mags that are pre-ban. My bad I didn't fully post the details. (fixed my original statement)

So ya if you have a pre-ban your also good to go.

pyro3k2
04-13-2011, 4:38 PM
And as for what AR's are good for " EVERYTHING " :D The question is what are they not good for ?!?!?!?!? Riddle me that! :D

working during a sand storm

winxp_man
04-13-2011, 4:55 PM
I would say everyone takes a break during a sand storm.

pyro3k2
04-13-2011, 5:05 PM
I would say everyone takes a break during a sand storm.

And I would say not in real life.

Charlie50
04-13-2011, 5:31 PM
I use mine as a fine lamp shade holder in my den.

jdouglas
04-14-2011, 10:55 AM
Reading through this thread makes me wonder if I should build an AR15 for my first gun...they sound like a lot of fun. :-)

titankeith
04-14-2011, 12:02 PM
Not to negate what you're saying, because my test wasnt "scientific", but i'll give you my story anyways:

At my work, we had to build a bank teller line. You can imagine that they wanted a pretty beefy counter for this, and wanted it to be bullet resistant. They spec'ed out this thing REALLY beefy....this is what it had looking at it from the profile if you cut it in half: 1" MDF, 1/4" bullet resistant plexiglass, about 3" of empty space, then finally two sheets of 3/4" MDF laid up on top of each other. All in all, this thing was SUPER heavy and was dang near 6" thick.

Well, at the end of the job, we had an extra section of this thing laying in the shop because it was a mock up for approval. It was about 3 feet wide and 4 feet tall. We decided to test how "bullet resistant" this thing really was! I brought my .45 ACP 5" 1911, someone else brought their 9mm S&W, and I brought in my 16" AR15. All of the 9mm and .45ACP rounds hit the front of the 1" MDF and stuck in it, having the nose of the bullet touching but not breaking through the 1/4" bullet resistant plexiglass. The plexi was spider-cracked on the other side, but none of the handgun rounds ever made it through.....even after hitting the same spot multiple times.

Then came the AR15: I had handloaded the rounds at 24 Grains of Ramshot TAC using an Armscor 62 gr FMJBT. We shot it from about 15-20 feet away. The results: The freaking little bullet went all the way through the 1" MDF, pierced through the 1/4" bullet resistant plexiglass, passed through the 2 layers of laid up 3/4" MDF (1.5" total), and than dug another 6" into a pile of hardwood sitting behind the dang teller line! Good thing that wood was behind it because it would have hit the cement wall behind it and ricocheted only God knows where! When we dug it out of the wood, it had barely deformed at all, just slightly bent in the middle and slightly flattened at the nose.

Needless to say, that little .223 round gave me a much higher level of respect for what that little cartridge can do. Now, I'm sure you can get different types of rounds that will fragment a lot better or not travel so deeply, but generally, I just find it difficult to believe that a pistol round can come even close to the penetration of a rifle round. Not saying it cant happen....after all, this wasnt a repeated, scientific, measured test....but it served as evidence in my mind supporting the idea that an AR15 round really can penetrate very deep...much further than what it was intended to go into (and stop). In my mind, sheet rock in houses might as well be a piece of paper with that little .223 round, as I have "tested" it against much harder and thicker materials.

YMMV

That is a COOL test...I'm curious to hell what a sabot slug out of a shotgun would've done! However, anyone saying a 5.56 is too weak for HD is not correct...even for Kalifornia Deer, it should work fine...

WARDOG
04-14-2011, 7:52 PM
'Turkey-Load' bird shot is devastating too, for all of those worried about over-penetration.

mark501w
04-14-2011, 9:11 PM
Just pick one up & look across the sights & you'll know why you need one.

pyro3k2
04-14-2011, 9:27 PM
Just pick one up & look across the sights & you'll know why you need one.

Are we talking about saiga 12's now?

Baconator
04-14-2011, 9:28 PM
Nothing, so give it to me.