PDA

View Full Version : I'm really getting tired of term limits - AB 144


not-fishing
04-12-2011, 11:21 AM
Assemblyman Anthony Portantino, D-La Caņada Flintridge, has taken up the bid to prohibit people from openly carrying unloaded handguns in public.

http://blogs.sacbee.com/capitolalertlatest/2011/04/am-alert-new-push-for-open-car.html#disqus_thread

Is it me or are there more nutty anti-gun laws from Lame Duck Congress Critters now that we have Lame Ducks more often.

These term limits seem to be taking the shackles of "Re-Election" off the Slimy Bas#### and allowing them to curry favor for their next elected/appointed position. :rant:

You always get the Monkey's Paw

FF/EMT Nick
04-12-2011, 1:50 PM
so are You implying that we should remove the term limits? That we should let these already proven, lying, gun-grabbing slimeballs stay in there position of power indefinitely?

I honestly hope thats not what your implying.:confused:

Kid Stanislaus
04-12-2011, 2:21 PM
We are living in the PRC, will it make any difference either way?

dad
04-12-2011, 2:26 PM
There should be term limits for "each and every politician", look at Boxer and Finestein. They have been in office for many, many years! "They and many others need to go"!

wildhawker
04-12-2011, 2:26 PM
so are You implying that we should remove the term limits? That we should let these already proven, lying, gun-grabbing slimeballs stay in there position of power indefinitely?

I honestly hope thats not what your implying.:confused:

Why? If he was, he'd be right.

Term limits have unintended consequences, and here in CA, they have all been net negative for gun owners.

There should be term limits for "each and every politician", look at Boxer and Finestein. They have been in office for many, many years! "They and many others need to go"!

There are term limits: vote them out.

johnny_22
04-12-2011, 2:30 PM
With the committee redrawing the districts, I will feel better that there won't be as many safe districts that need a term limit to remove any moldy legislative growth.

CS Sports
04-12-2011, 2:40 PM
Term limits, while sounding great, have undoubtedly resulted in many politicians who have come into office with radical agendas. Since they know they will be termed out before the results of their horrible ideas take effect, there is no incentive for them to be afraid of any repercussions.

At least with career politicians there is some fear that they might lose their jobs. Self preservation is a disproportionately large motivation for politicians, in my experience. Of course Boxer and Feinstein are the exceptions that prove the rule, mainly because of the radical left political leanings of large voting blocks of the California population guarantee their continued success at the polls.

IMO, term limits have directly resulted in the complete disaster that is our state legislature.

BigFatGuy
04-12-2011, 2:53 PM
Would you prefer entrenched anti-gun politicians stay in office for 40+ years?

Term limits or no, bad voting leads to bad government.

sholling
04-12-2011, 3:25 PM
As a former supporter of term limits I say yes maybe we should repeal term limits and here's why: If you term limit politicians to 3 terms then at any one time you have 1/3 of those in the legislature that have absolutely no-zip-nada reason to give a rat's tail what the people want or about what's best for California. 1/3 that have nothing to lose because they can't run again. I'd trade an end to term limits for a Texas style part time legislature and a ban on public employees' unions in a heartbeat.

bwiese
04-12-2011, 3:32 PM
http://blogs.sacbee.com/capitolalertlatest/2011/04/am-alert-new-push-for-open-car.html#disqus_thread

Is it me or are there more nutty anti-gun laws from Lame Duck Congress Critters now that we have Lame Ducks more often.

These term limits seem to be taking the shackles of "Re-Election" off the Slimy Bas#### and allowing them to curry favor for their next elected/appointed position. :rant:

You always get the Monkey's Paw


Exactly. The NRA people I've spoken to dislike term limits - once we get a legislator trained, it'd be nice to keep him in place and not retrain a new one every few years.

bwiese
04-12-2011, 3:33 PM
Would you prefer entrenched anti-gun politicians stay in office for 40+ years?

They get tired of that subject and move on. Much gun control has been passed simply as a campaign measure to move up to the next seat since they've been termed out of their lower seat.

skylindrftr
04-12-2011, 9:46 PM
Ugh, I hate being from lcf mainly because of this douchebag...

BlindRacer
04-13-2011, 9:40 AM
... I'd trade an end to term limits for a Texas style part time legislature and a ban on public employees' unions in a heartbeat.

+1. Cali would be so much better off like this.

socal2310
04-13-2011, 9:56 AM
I'm another former believer in term limits. It sounds good in theory, but removing politicians does nothing to change the political machine that creates them. Freshmen politicians are guided and trained by lobbyists who know politicians better than they know themselves. Remember, we all hate entrenched special interests unless they are "our" special interests. At least seasoned politicians have a healthy distrust of all lobbyists, not just those working for competing ideologies.

Ryan

BluNorthern
04-13-2011, 10:01 AM
As a former supporter of term limits I say yes maybe we should repeal term limits and here's why: If you term limit politicians to 3 terms then at any one time you have 1/3 of those in the legislature that have absolutely no-zip-nada reason to give a rat's tail what the people want or about what's best for California. 1/3 that have nothing to lose because they can't run again. I'd trade an end to term limits for a Texas style part time legislature and a ban on public employees' unions in a heartbeat.

That in the bold and an intelligent, informed voter base. (I know, I'm reaching here.)

nicki
04-13-2011, 12:11 PM
Term Limits has brought us a bunch of bad politicians, that I won't dispute.

In spite of that, I still SUPPORT term limits because the issue has to be more than just gun rights, it has to be all rights.

Term Limits was designed to remove entrenched politicians and that removes both good and bad.

Term Limits didn't remove special interest groups and they moved in, we didn't.

Our problem is that across the board we did not develop good people at the local level so that when Assembly and Senate seats open up, we have good people to get into office.

We actually had enough people in California back when term limits was passed, but we didn't have the organization and resources to pool those people.

Gun rights unfortunately has been tied only to the Republican Party and because the Republican Party has become functionally dead in many parts of the state, the Democrats rule.

If we ran PRO GUN DEMOCRATS in the Democratic primaries, we would have a chance to restore things.

Imagine what would have happened to gun rights if Bill Clinton could have ran for a third, forth, fifth term.

Gun rights are more than just a "Individual right", they are our collective responsibility to ensure our "System of Ordered Liberty".

Most people understand the "Individual right" issue, but many have never heard the "collective responsibility" part because sadly most people don't know American History.

Other than the move, "The Patriot", how many movies or TV shows have their been recently about the American Revolution? Hell, they are trying to NOT teach it to our children in the Government run schools.

Everything we do in life will have some unintended consequences, good or bad. The trick is too learn from our mistakes and move forward.

Nicki

wildhawker
04-13-2011, 12:32 PM
Nicki,

While I always appreciate your perspective and experience, you're simply wrong about how term limits worked here in California. Please show me where they successfully preserved any sort of substantive individual liberty, and then let me know how any of the "good" interest groups have fared - maybe even call them and ask. Misunderstanding the electorate translates into a Pollyannaish outlook of practical politics.

sholling
04-13-2011, 4:11 PM
Term Limits didn't remove special interest groups and they moved in, we didn't.

Our problem is that across the board we did not develop good people at the local level so that when Assembly and Senate seats open up, we have good people to get into office.
Nicki, the problem began with allowing pubic employees to unionize to begin with. It was a scheme to drive campaign support for Democrats from the get-go. The second problem was a slate of campaign finance "reforms" intended to get corporate money out of politics. That was always intended as a scheme to shift the balance of power to the far left and the unions. Finally there were the gerrymandering schemes.

Now let's look at the effect of those laws. In the old days parents and business people would run for the school board and focus their attention on providing the best possible education for the kids. My parents' generation could read well, had good handwriting, could spell without a spell checker, and do 10th grade math in their heads. That changed with unionization. Teachers began campaigning for compliant school board candidates that would go along with anything to keep their seats. The focus shifted away from a quality education to keeping unionized teachers and administrators happy and education has suffered as a result. In other words this first step into a political career requires selling out to the unions from the get-go just to take that first step.

But it goes beyond that. To win a city council seat you need the support of the city's unions and promise to get in bed with them. Otherwise they protest you while openly campaigning for your opponent. Bottom line that local politician that you want to cultivate has already sold his soul to the unions in order to get and keep that city council or board of supervisors job.

But it goes even further. Campaign finance laws and term limits prevent candidates for state office from being able to raise enough cash on their own to run a credible campaign. If they want that state office they have to go hat in hand to the party bosses and ask for party money. Those party bosses on the Democrat side are radical socialists and gun grabber, and on the Republican side the party bosses focus on religious-right issues. Only the candidates that most closely match the party bosses get the help of the party. The anointed Democrats also have to have the blessings of the unions to run the ground game of knocking on doors and making calls, just as the Republicans rely on the religious right to provide their ground game. The bottom line here is that laws intended to clean up politics have instead made the party bosses and unions the king makers that anoint politician totally beholding to the extreme gun-grabbing socialist left and the far religious right.

The only answer is to:

Ban public employee unions
Repeal campaign finance laws
Make the legislature part time and limited to 6 weeks every 2 years
End term limits to shift the power base away from the party bosses

kln5
04-13-2011, 7:19 PM
The problem with term limits is that these politician are still going to do what they are going to do...only faster.
another solution would be that if you pay taxes you get to vote.

Skidmark
04-13-2011, 8:06 PM
Term Limits, the absolute worst thing that has come to California government, apart from Prop 13. These limits ensure that good legislators are kicked out before their time, and that both bodies are filled with newbies who lean on lobbyists to learn the ropes. And we end up with radical partisans who cling to entrenched ideology that keeps us from resolving the state's budget. Far better is the traditional means of terming them out - voting in the general elections - and if that fails, then recall elections.

nicki
04-14-2011, 1:55 AM
Nicki,

While I always appreciate your perspective and experience, you're simply wrong about how term limits worked here in California. Please show me where they successfully preserved any sort of substantive individual liberty, and then let me know how any of the "good" interest groups have fared - maybe even call them and ask. Misunderstanding the electorate translates into a Pollyannaish outlook of practical politics.



Brandon,

I will agree that Term Limits has been a disaster for gun owners in California, but I still view them as needed.

One thing we must consider is how much California's Demographics have changed over the last 30 years. If our population makeup didn't shift as much as it did, we might have seen different results with term limits.

The illegal Immigration issue and prop 187 is what turned many hispanics away from the Republican Party.

What has hurt gun rights is the demographic shift to Democratic voters.
The Republican party is effectively dead in this state.

Look at how FDR was able to pack the Supreme Court. He did it because he served 4 terms.

Term Limits are not the fix all, but they are part of what is needed for good government reform.

Ultimately though the only way to beat "Special Interest Groups" is for everyone in the US Population to take "Some Interest" in how our govt runs.

Certainly we could take a look at revising our current term limits. I could live with say 10 years in the assembly and 12 years in the Senate.

Sholling,

You certainly provided some eye opening comments on how local politics work. Truthfully I haven't been playing close attention to city/county government officials, yet these guys are the farm team so to speak.

Nicki

Paladin
04-14-2011, 5:49 AM
Gosh I miss Willie Brown (passed law which prohibits CLEOs from issuing CCWs to CA residents outside of their city/county), and Don Perata!

Thank goodness there aren't any term limits for sheriffs. Otherwise Sheriffs Plummer, Hennessey, Baca, and Rupf wouldn't have been able to build up political machines that kept them in office for DECADES! Yep, they've been REAL responsive to the electorate in order to continue to win elections. :rolleyes:

(sarcasm off)

OT: The whole purpose for NOT being a direct democracy (where the electorate has to research, debate, and then vote on EVERY law), is that it allows us to focus on managing our own individual and family lives by hiring some among us to represent us. Heinlein was wrong, specialization is good.

I'm beginning to realize an (intended? :TFH:) consequence of all this socialism in America ("entitlements"/welfare, needless warfare, foreign aid), with our gov't budgets taking up so much of our income (all direct and indirect taxes), is that many Americans are too busy working -- even including our wives now -- to study any political issues in depth and to monitor those politicians. Thus, we vote politicos in office, and then get our noses back to the grind stones or being entertained/distracted, and are politically disengaged. Then, when the next election rolls around, we base how we vote upon a combination of what our parents, teachers, friends, and MSM have told us. Then its back to the rat race! Thus, in effect, we are no longer even an indirect democracy. We, the People, have disengaged ourselves from politics to focus on work and "circuses" (entertainment).

sholling
04-14-2011, 8:46 AM
Gosh I miss Willie Brown (passed law which prohibits CLEOs from issuing CCWs to CA residents outside of their city/county), and Don Perata!
And just exactly how is he worse than the new crop of gun grabbers that comes in every 8 years? Willie Brown represented the bay area, are any of the bay area commie drones that have come after him a bit better? Or are they in fact worse?

Thank goodness there aren't any term limits for sheriffs. Otherwise Sheriffs Plummer, Hennessey, Baca, and Rupf wouldn't have been able to build up political machines that kept them in office for DECADES! Yep, they've been REAL responsive to the electorate in order to continue to win elections. :rolleyes:
Perhaps it might be better to blame the Brad Gates incumbent sheriff job protection act instead of a lack of term limits. That's the law that makes it illegal for mere citizens (the peasantry) to run for that exalted office. The law was passed to prevent a popular judge form defeating an unpopular sheriff. That and the stupidity of the neocon run California Republican Party's insistence on "supporting LE" by backing every (or nearly every) incumbent sheriff no matter how feckless. The same flavor unthinking morons that brought us the incumbent protection law when they held power.