View Full Version : Feb 1st memo (CAT IV) still on DoJ site
blacklisted
11-12-2006, 05:40 PM
Hey look, it's the memo that they don't acknowledge!
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/ar15notice.pdf
damon1272
11-12-2006, 06:02 PM
Save a copy for future reference.
I wonder why its still up. Maybe they are going to try to enforce that again.
I wonder why its still up. Maybe they are going to try to enforce that again.
Na, I doubt they can do that. If they add a firearm to the list, and you already own it, you will have to be given the ability to register. I think that falls under the Ex Post Defacto law thing.
blacklisted
11-12-2006, 06:51 PM
I wonder why its still up. Maybe they are going to try to enforce that again.
I'm sure they just forgot to take it down when they changed their mind.
Guinness
11-12-2006, 07:11 PM
Will be interesting to see how long it stays up.. Now that you've pointed out its still there...
xenophobe
11-12-2006, 07:52 PM
I'm sure they just forgot to take it down when they changed their mind.
Nah, they left it there so they can change their mind. lol
tenpercentfirearms
11-12-2006, 08:10 PM
All your base are belong to us!
Yes, I am just trying to hit the 25 post count so I can peddle my wares in the for sale forums.
I'm so glad I found this message board. Better late than never. Aside from the informative posts and great discussions, some of these just fricken make me laugh.
:)
Here you go Wes:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/gaming/3777/
anotherted
11-12-2006, 08:52 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/TeddyJ/allyourbase.jpg
MisterDudeManGuy
11-12-2006, 09:08 PM
I was trying to remember that line - that is SO freakin' funny! :D
Does it sound like Category 4 registration is coming?
blacklisted
11-12-2006, 09:35 PM
Does it sound like Category 4 registration is coming?
Negative.
Negative.
That would be funny if all those closed mag Bushmasters are banned and have to be registered! " 'cause they just look evil!"
fastsvt1998
11-12-2006, 09:44 PM
I own one of those Bushmasters and yes that would be funny. If only I had known about Calguns before I wasted my money on it!
I own one of those Bushmasters and yes that would be funny. If only I had known about Calguns before I wasted my money on it!
I was at Redding, Culver City a few weeks ago and I saw an excited new owner of one of those Bushmasters putting his gun on the 10 day Cali wait. I wanted to grab the guy by the arm and tell him about OLLs. I doubt he knew anything about it. I just wish someone had told me about the AWB back in 2000!
metalhead357
11-12-2006, 11:00 PM
I own one of those Bushmasters and yes that would be funny. If only I had known about Calguns before I wasted my money on it!
Well, here, we'll help you re-coup SOME of those costs; I'll give ya' $100 for that wretched rifle & ya' can put the money towards a real OLL:D
Ford8N
11-13-2006, 06:25 AM
Now that it has been pointed out, I suspect the DOJ will correct the site. They have been monitoring CalGuns very closely for sometime now. I find it rather amusing that a state agency keeps making mistakes and tries something different. Then the silly gun dweebs of CalGuns use the existing gun laws to prove the fallacy of of the proposed changes and then someone at the DOJ changes the proposals again. This is sorta like a real life "wag the dog".:p
I wonder if the new AG knows what a mess this OLL thing has become. And there is really only one way to stop it but someone at the DOJ is resisting that option. Its codified in the existing law but not for long.
I was at Redding, Culver City a few weeks ago and I saw an excited new owner of one of those Bushmasters putting his gun on the 10 day Cali wait. I wanted to grab the guy by the arm and tell him about OLLs. I doubt he knew anything about it. I just wish someone had told me about the AWB back in 2000!
I almost made the mistake of buying one of those because I wanted and AR style rifle so bad. Thankfully, one of the guys that works down at the shop pulled me aside and explained the OLL thing to me. Once he pointed me here and I did some reading of the many posts AND the laws, I realized I had found exactly what I wanted. I'm thankful to him, Calguns and the DOJ for making my purchase possible.
bwiese
11-13-2006, 10:46 AM
"Mess" is actually correct terminology because there's a very poor division between statutory & regulatory law, and definitions created on both sides.
As for the Cat. 4 memo, it was stillborn the moment it was issued. I think about 5 -6 people here on Calguns tore it apart the day it was issued, and then NRA lawyers Chuck Michel & Jason took it apart in a far more formal fashion, a bit more quietly...
Apparently Randy Rossi was out ill early Feb and was called at home, "Hey, Randy, you *can't* be serious pulling this cr*p...." I think Alison Merrilees may have pulled a Mike Curb on him...
arguy15
11-13-2006, 03:24 PM
They took it down : )
:p
6172crew
11-13-2006, 03:25 PM
Apparently Randy Rossi was out ill early Feb and was called at home, "Hey, Randy, you *can't* be serious pulling this cr*p...." I think Alison Merrilees may have pulled a Mike Curb on him...
Alison Merrilees could wreck a junkyard.:cool:
They took it down : )
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6172crew
11-13-2006, 03:30 PM
They should start paying us to keep up that website.:D
pacificcoast
11-13-2006, 04:07 PM
They took it down : )
:p
amd folks wonder if they monitor this site :(
tenpercentfirearms
11-13-2006, 04:26 PM
LOL. That didn't take long.
RANGER295
11-13-2006, 05:12 PM
amd folks wonder if they monitor this site :(
That would be a cool job… just sit there and read through CalGuns all day. Wish I could do that while I was at work.:p
On the serious side, did anyone save it? If so why not post it.
That would be a cool job… just sit there and read through CalGuns all day. Wish I could do that while I was at work.:p
I do. :)
metalhead357
11-13-2006, 08:40 PM
LOL. That didn't take long.
LOL! No it didn't now did it.
Well, Since they ARE apparently watching then let us unite and ask again politely for them to Follow the statute that says they update the list and allow for a registration period; stop this nonsense of definition re-arragement, percieved hurt feelings, percieved trying to stop now what they could have avoided long long ago if they had been updating the list...and just list them now and we can all get back to our lives. It would simplify thier lives & ours.......
tenpercentfirearms
11-14-2006, 06:43 AM
So why is it taking so long to return the Milpitas receivers?
Don't ask me. I have nothing to do with that.
ChrisSig
11-14-2006, 10:32 AM
Can someone repost the memo here? I didn't get to see it.
Bill_in_SD
11-14-2006, 11:07 AM
You mean this one?
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:a46r1cx-cP0J:ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/ar15notice.pdf+%22ar15notice+pdf%22+site:ca.gov&hl=en&gl=us
Google caches a few things, I heard . :-)
This is the .html version. You may need to cut and paste to view it.
Bill in SD
bwiese
11-14-2006, 11:09 AM
I love that memo. The tone of it goes rises from stridency at the start, to sheer outright panic.
ChrisSig
11-14-2006, 12:16 PM
Ah yes, THAT memo. I seem to remember it..... :)
I hear that a new list is coming out soon? In two weeks? :confused: :D
jemaddux
11-14-2006, 12:26 PM
The one part I love is:
Firearm manufacturers, wholesalers and dealers who misinform the public about the ability to legally add prohibited features to these newly listed firearmsrisk criminal prosecution. They could also face civil penalties of up to $2,500 per violation under the state=s Unfair Practices Act (California Business & Professions Code section 17000 et seq.).
Whats fines are they going to give the DOJ for misinforming the public about OLLs and stating they were going to open a reg period also???:confused:
ChrisSig
11-14-2006, 12:43 PM
The one part I love is:
Firearm manufacturers, wholesalers and dealers who misinform the public about the ability to legally add prohibited features to these newly listed firearmsrisk criminal prosecution. They could also face civil penalties of up to $2,500 per violation under the state=s Unfair Practices Act (California Business & Professions Code section 17000 et seq.).
Whats fines are they going to give the DOJ for misinforming the public about OLLs and stating they were going to open a reg period also???:confused:
I think the DOJ is putting the public at risk by not allowing "prohibited features." What if I were to be killed in a gunfight with home invaders because my Californified AR-15's 10 rounds ran out, and I was in the middle of opening the action to load rounds one at time, when the home invader grabbed it from my hands and clubbed me to death with it? I think there is a successful lawsuit waiting to happen here. One of us just has to agree to "take one for the team."
ARRRR-15
11-14-2006, 12:55 PM
That would be a cool job… just sit there and read through CalGuns all day. Wish I could do that while I was at work.:p
On the serious side, did anyone save it? If so why not post it.
Me Too!!:D
bwiese
11-14-2006, 01:04 PM
Note for the DoJ guys who are reading this: If you think that you can make the memo "vanish" by forcing the internet archive guys to remove it / hide it, you are mistaken. Matter-of-fact, the attempt to do so would get channeled back to the right parties, and would increase your troubles even further...
It's already nicely on file at Trutanich-Michel ;) Probably all three revisions, including the ones where I told Allison she had the wrong date for Harrott.
grammaton76
11-14-2006, 01:08 PM
I think the DOJ is putting the public at risk by not allowing "prohibited features." What if I were to be killed in a gunfight with home invaders because my Californified AR-15's 10 rounds ran out, and I was in the middle of opening the action to load rounds one at time, when the home invader grabbed it from my hands and clubbed me to death with it? I think there is a successful lawsuit waiting to happen here. One of us just has to agree to "take one for the team."
The DOJ's answers to that (not mine) would be:
1. As for getting clubbed while reloading, you shouldn't be using a borderline assault weapon instead. Use an SU-16CA or Mini-14.
2. You shouldn't be using a gun anyway. There's too much mean-spiritedness in the victim community now, and you should use a taser, but make sure you don't hurt them or they'll sue you.
3. Actually, you should just run away instead.
ChrisSig
11-14-2006, 01:08 PM
It's already nicely on file at Trutanich-Michel ;) Probably all three revisions, including the ones where I told Allison she had the wrong date for Harrott.
Bill, are you workin' your magic with the ladies, for the greater good of your fellow gun owners? We support you 100%; keep it up.
bwiese
11-14-2006, 01:10 PM
Bill, are you workin' your magic with the ladies, for the greater good of your fellow gun owners? We support you 100%; keep it up.
I don't think I have much magic with Allison :-|
hoffmang
11-14-2006, 07:31 PM
Guys,
Someone needs to make sure that their letter points out (and attaches) the real reasons why the Rulemaking is proposed based on the various Memos and how those Memos show that there are better alternatives to the rulemaking.
We need all the memos in the file that's forwarded to OAL.
-Gene
heyjak
11-14-2006, 07:56 PM
I get it! (Mike Curb)
hoffmang
11-14-2006, 09:55 PM
tree,
"Better" in this case is a very double edged sword.
-Gene
RANGER295
11-14-2006, 10:48 PM
I think we should put together an archive of DOJ memos and letters and post it on CalGuns. I know that I personally have probably a couple dozen DOJ letters that I have collected from different sources. I am sure that many of the members here have far more than me. By putting this library together we could have them available for legal defenses, brainstorming, or whatever else the gun community needs. Maybe I will post this in the suggestion forum. I have been swamped the last couple of weeks but have been meaning to make some suggestions.
metalhead357
11-14-2006, 11:23 PM
I think we should put together an archive of DOJ memos and letters and post it on CalGuns. .
+1 IMO, and make her a Sticky;)
blacklisted
11-14-2006, 11:24 PM
+1 IMO, and make her a Sticky;)
I have a nice collection of DoJ documents. :D
grammaton76
11-14-2006, 11:46 PM
Actually, a wiki page would be much better than a sticky post. On a wiki, you can actually go back and format things, and the docs+links are maintained on the same server. The probability of broken links goes way down. :)
You can also do a better job of categorization - e.g. put all "that's off-list" confirmation letters on one page, all memos on another, etc.
If someone wants to give me copies of all the docs, I can post 'em to a page that can be organized however the overall consensus wants it.
I think the DOJ is putting the public at risk by not allowing "prohibited features." What if I were to be killed in a gunfight with home invaders because my Californified AR-15's 10 rounds ran out, and I was in the middle of opening the action to load rounds one at time, when the home invader grabbed it from my hands and clubbed me to death with it? I think there is a successful lawsuit waiting to happen here. One of us just has to agree to "take one for the team."
Thank gawd I have a bayonet :D and a MM grip!
ChrisSig
11-15-2006, 02:42 PM
Thank gawd I have a bayonet :D and a MM grip!
I have a 16" bull barrel for those extra-heavy muzzle strikes! :D
MisterDudeManGuy
11-15-2006, 02:52 PM
I have a 16" bull barrel for those extra-heavy muzzle strikes! :D
I got a Sharps with a 34" bull barrel - 'bout 14lbs. The only thing it is good fer in a home defense situation IS muzzle strikes! :D
...but don't worry - it's offlist. :D
ecounter
11-15-2006, 02:53 PM
Just tried the link and page can not be found. Interesting
ChrisSig
11-15-2006, 02:55 PM
I got a Sharps with a 34" bull barrel - 'bout 14lbs. The only thing it is good fer in a home defense situation IS muzzle strikes! :D
...but don't worry - it's offlist. :D
:eek: I'm not bustin' in to your house, no siree.
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