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View Full Version : Program to donate guns to battered women?


misterjake
04-11-2011, 3:39 PM
I thought of this program while at school today. There are programs to give old cell phones to battered/abused women in case they need to call 911. They are also shelters to help abused women...

But does anybody know of a program that can help battered/abused women obtain donated firearms? Women who accept donations would also be taught how to use them, safely.

Instead of guy buybacks, why not have a group that would take the donated gun instead and give it to a woman who needs it.

Of course a background check/all legal transactions would take place, so she legally owns it.


What do you guys think of such a program if it does not exist?

How could the antis condone this one?

Wherryj
04-11-2011, 3:56 PM
I wonder how many victims of domestic violence get a nearly automatic counter-complaint of DV? I'd suspect that it is pretty common. Lautenberg might be the largest hurdle to your idea.

Mimi_T
04-11-2011, 4:10 PM
I think it would be a really good thing. It would have to be like you said, with mandatory training provided as well.

Self-defense training in general included in the package, would be great as well. It's always so sad just how many people go their whole life without knowing how to defend themselves or having the means to.

InGrAM
04-11-2011, 4:27 PM
Never going to happen in a anti-2nd amendment state like Kalfiornia but I could see this working well in a non leftist state.

Good thought. Id support a program like this.

wash
04-11-2011, 4:39 PM
It could happen as a private charity. The only bump in the road is the 10 day wait and possibly residence issues if they are running away from a bad situation.

The down side is that you would have to be careful so it doesn't turn in to a free straw purchase program for thugs or something like that.

7x57
04-11-2011, 4:42 PM
I once considered the idea of Calguns offering free firearms training to any non-prohibited person in a women's shelter. That's not so far from this idea. Here is one problem: while I'm sure it's somehow politically incorrect to say so, there are quite a few people in shelters who, for any number of reasons, won't really be able to exercise their 2A rights responsibly and lawfully. Among other things, it's my suspicion that those people are far less likely to get trapped in a abusive relationship in the first place. Now consider what happens the first time a battered woman, say, kills herself and her child in despair when her ex comes knocking--think of the anti-gun news. The stories write themselves: "gun nuts give guns to troubled women," "suicidal woman given weapon by gun rights extremists" and so on. Now, it's quite possible that the people who run the shelters have a pretty good idea who both could and would shoot relatively straight and in the generally correct direction, but I think they're going to turn out to be overwhelmingly anti-gun.

Such things would have to be done extremely carefully, or we could even get a "very special law" passed just to outlaw such ideas. Which is too bad, because I'd really like to have the antis on TV arguing for victim disarmament in an especially clear way. But the first time a child gets hurt the facts won't matter.

7x57

loose_electron
04-11-2011, 5:28 PM
Not that good an idea in my opinion.

Consider - You want a person to learn about guns in a manner that allows full and complete training and a good understanding that guns are a "course of last resort" only when your life is threatened. By the time a person puts a gun into a self defense role, they better know what and where is proper.

Women in domestic abuse situations don't have the time for that, and are often not in a position to get there. They need help to get away from the abuser, change the life situation and protect themselves and their kids, in a manner which doesn't escalate.

Putting a gun into the hands of a minimally trained individual will probably lead to improper use.

FYI - A number of years back I volunteered for a while as a courier/transporter for an organization that dealt with domestic abuse. We got women and their kids away from the abuser and moved them to "safe houses" so the abuser could not get to them.

A lot of those women were emotional messes, and the last thing I would want is to try teaching them firearms safety. Wrong time and place. Best course of action is to get the abuser and the woman separated and unable to find each other.

Female cop or female with military training? Different story.

BoxesOfLiberty
04-11-2011, 5:32 PM
I thought of this program while at school today. There are programs to give old cell phones to battered/abused women in case they need to call 911. They are also shelters to help abused women...

But does anybody know of a program that can help battered/abused women obtain donated firearms? Women who accept donations would also be taught how to use them, safely.

Instead of guy buybacks, why not have a group that would take the donated gun instead and give it to a woman who needs it.

Of course a background check/all legal transactions would take place, so she legally owns it.


What do you guys think of such a program if it does not exist?

How could the antis condone this one?

There's an interesting idea.

blakdawg
04-11-2011, 5:40 PM
There are two intersections between the domestic violence issue and the firearms issue - one is being subject to a restraining order, that creates an immediate (but temporary) restriction on ownership/possession. The other is a conviction for a domestic violence crime - that creates a federal, lifetime ban on ownership/possession.

A California court should not be issuing mutual DV restraining orders as a matter of everyday practice - I am not going to say it doesn't happen, because I don't practice family law (although I end up doing RO's a couple of times per year, typically related to elder abuse), and I sure don't practice family law in every county in California, but the "mutual RO" problem is well-known and a generally discredited idea in CA.

When I was a 3rd year law student I worked as an intern at the local public defender's office - probably 45% of my caseload was misdemeanor domestic violence cases. I have talked to a lot of defendants and a lot of victims, and have volunteered at womens' shelters.

I think the idea is a good one, and a fun way to put a thumb in the eye of aggravating anti-gun people, but I'm not sure it's going to work out as well as it could.

Specifically, many of these families involve kids, so it's not just going to be giving/selling them a gun, it's also going to mean giving/selling them a small safe/security box. Also, there's ongoing training, and ammo, and having the good judgment to not let the gun fall into the hands of an abusive boyfriend - either because they get back together with the original butthead, or because they find a new one. It's not uncommon for a person in an abusive relationship to leave and get back together 3 or 4 times before they finally break up or one of them kills the other.

In approximately half of the cases I worked on, the victim/complainant who called the police to get my client arrested was already living with the defendant again - typically in violation of the conditions of release imposed when someone bonded out of custody - and actively cooperating against the prosecution.

The tricky thing about domestic violence is that the participants aren't the stereotypical offenders and victims you'd imagine from watching TV - it's not necessarily clear who was the real aggressor (especially if you look beyond one incident) or whose behavior is worse.

Frankly, my hunch is that the intended beneficiaries of the program will, within a few months, end up selling the gun and the safe and the ammo for money to be spent on food/baby formula/cable TV/alcohol/drugs. I'm sure there are cases where this is not true, but I know there are a lot of cases where it is true, and those cases are likely to cause bad publicity and bad will on the part of volunteers who wanted to help someone in need, not give a handout to an addict. I think it's also pretty likely that the guns will, in some cases, end up being used by the abusive partners to commit more crimes.

beauregard
04-11-2011, 5:44 PM
Bad idea.

tyrist
04-11-2011, 6:32 PM
Possibly one of the worst ideas I have ever heard in my life regarding domestic violence victims.

Connor P Price
04-11-2011, 6:44 PM
While I'm certain this idea has noble intentions, I don't think it would work well in practical application for many of the reasons listed above.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

Cowboy T
04-11-2011, 6:58 PM
Here's a better idea: why not do a program for battered racial minorities? I long ago lost track of the racial minorities, both male and female, and especially Black and Hispanic, that were beaten up or threatened by racist Whites (e. g. my father). How about it?

Kid Stanislaus
04-11-2011, 7:24 PM
Never going to happen in a anti-2nd amendment state like Kalfiornia but I could see this working well in a non leftist state. Good thought. Id support a program like this.

There's no good reason whatsoever why it could not be implemented. It can be organized or done individually. Simply call up the closest women's center and tell them what you have in mind. Some will recoil in shock but others will be receptive. If I knew of a woman who needed a gun I'd give her one of mine or buy her one. Battered women need to be empowered to protect themselves.

Kid Stanislaus
04-11-2011, 7:30 PM
Bad idea.

Ah, yet one more articulate and intelligent opposing point of view!:rolleyes:


And here's another! "Possibly one of the worst ideas I have ever heard in my life regarding domestic violence victims."

Kid Stanislaus
04-11-2011, 7:37 PM
Here's a better idea: why not do a program for battered racial minorities? I long ago lost track of the racial minorities, both male and female, and especially Black and Hispanic, that were beaten up or threatened by racist Whites (e. g. my father). How about it?

There's nothing wrong with that idea either.

misterjake
04-11-2011, 7:40 PM
I was looking at it more from a woman who is now empowered.

After my wife shot a gun for the first time, she told other girls how "empowering" it feels.

So, i know the psychology of a battered woman, at least some might feel that they finally have control their children and their lives instead of at the mercy of the system.

tyrist
04-15-2011, 12:36 PM
Ah, yet one more articulate and intelligent opposing point of view!:rolleyes:


And here's another! "Possibly one of the worst ideas I have ever heard in my life regarding domestic violence victims."

How much experience do you have with domestic violence?

For the most part the people involved are not completely good or completely bad. Often times you respond one day and the male is primary but then next the female can be primary. What is more often the case than not is both are convicted felons or have a history of criminal involvement with LE. The dynamics are very complex and I wish we could come up with some type of solution but arming any side is a bad idea. You would be giving somebody a gun that has no respect for it's power or a sane voice in their head to tell them when it's legal or not.

There is person in my area of patrol who has shot and killed two husbands. She laid in wait in both instances and got less than 10 years in prison for BOTH murders. The sad fact is when it involves domestic violence the emotions are so overwhelming as to cause irrational behavior and adding a firearm to that mix is the worst idea I have ever heard.