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View Full Version : Dr. Dallas M. Stout Psyd (Brady Campaign) Is (In My Personal Opinion) A Liar [HUMOR]


oaklander
04-11-2011, 3:50 AM
Although I am not a big fan of UOC, and I do realize that there are currently some complicated politics on the UOC issue, this article made me laugh:

http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/site/node/8867

THIS part actually made me LOL and then ROFL:

Even when a gun is used in self-defense, which is rare, research shows that it is no more likely to reduce a person's chance of being injured during a crime than various other forms of protective action. [Emphasis added]

It appears that Doctor Dallas M. Stout, Psy.D (http://www.doctorsconsulting.org/html/aboutdallas.htm) does not keep up with his own peeps in the healthcare field. . .

The Centers For Disease Control (which is not a very gun friendly group to begin with) have actually determined that . . .Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year. [Emphasis added]

See: Paper: "Estimating intruder-related firearm retrievals in U.S. households, 1994." By Robin M. Ikeda and others. Violence and Victims, Winter 1997. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9591354

If Dr. Stout (http://bit.ly/e0tL0P) thinks that 1/2 million means "rare" - then he is either not connected to reality, or (in my personal opinion) simply a liar. You take your pick.

But wait - there's MORE:

A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 3.5% of households had members who had used a gun "for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 1,029,615 such incidents per year. [Emphasis added].

See: Paper: "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun." By Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz. Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Fall 1995. http://www.law.northwestern.edu/jclc/backissues/86-1.html

(Both of the above from http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp).

Seriously - (in my personal opinion) people like Dr. Stout would not know truth if it came up and kissed him on the cheek. I'm not sure what world he lives in, but it's not the one that I live in (i.e., the one that has quantifiable truth, facts, common sense, reality, etc.) Either that, or he's simply (in my personal opinion) a big fat liar. Again, you make the call - either crazy, or (in my personal opinion) a liar.

Yes, I am calling him out.

Let's see if he replies. . .

As you know - truth is an absolute defense to libel - so if he can prove he's telling the truth, and is NOT (in my personal opinion) a liar on THIS TOPIC, then he can win his future libel suit against me. He can't and won't. I'm willing to stake everything on the truth. Let's see if he mans up and debates ME on this. . .

:D

Email: dallasstout@aol.com

SJgunguy24
04-11-2011, 4:07 AM
Those numbers lie!!!!! We all know that criminals only react when spoken to in a nice soft tone. They don't want to harm you at all, they are mearly misunderstood.


Yep Kev, when you hit them with common sense and real world facts they don't have a leg to stand on. One of my favorite questions....Do you feel as if your life is worth saving? Then act like it and get the best tool you can use to save it.....The right to life is a civil right.
I'm a civil rights activist, with a gun.

oaklander
04-11-2011, 4:10 AM
I seriously want to debate him on this:

<Oaklander>
to dallasstout@aol.com
date Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 4:09 AM
subject http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/site/node/8867
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 4:09 AM (0 minutes ago)
Dr. Stout,

I read with interest your article at: http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/site/node/8867

Since the website would not let me reply, I posted a reply at a gun forum that I frequent. Please see:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=6179129

Since you appear to value the "First Amendment," we would be pleased if you would debate us about the "Second Amendment." Can you show a lawyer some professional courtesy and join our conversation please?

Sincerely,

Oaklander

I'm probably going to destroy my political career and my relationships with a bunch of people by being this direct and honest - but seriously, I can't let this level of BS stand. It needs to be corrected, and corrected IN PUBLIC.

SJgunguy24
04-11-2011, 4:16 AM
I seriously want to debate him on this:



I'm probably going to destroy my political career and my relationships with a bunch of people by being this direct and honest - but seriously, I can't let this level of BS stand. It needs to be corrected, and corrected IN PUBLIC.


Kevin seriously, I could shread this dude. It's not hard when the emotions have been completely removed and logic is applied. If you want to go for it, I'm 100% behind you man, you know that.

Falconis
04-11-2011, 4:19 AM
I'll put 5 bucks down that he won't show up

oaklander
04-11-2011, 4:20 AM
Let's see if he even replies. Seriously, there are ZERO rational arguments in his favor. He can't argue facts (and does not even cite any), but rather relies on anecdotes and hazy generalizations. . .

He likely won't even come in here. If I get a C&D letter from their counsel, I'll post it here for humor value, then ignore it. We already know Brady hates the 2A, let's see if they respect the 1A. The phrase public figure comes to mind (that's for YOU, "Brady counsel"). . .

Kevin seriously, I could shread this dude. It's not hard when the emotions have been completely removed and logic is applied. If you want to go for it, I'm 100% behind you man, you know that.

oaklander
04-11-2011, 4:23 AM
If he replies to my email that I just sent - I will post it here. But there is simply nothing he can say - he was caught in an apparent lie.

PWNED

I'll put 5 bucks down that he won't show up

craneman
04-11-2011, 4:29 AM
Go get em!!

BobB35
04-11-2011, 4:39 AM
Here is a quick bio on Dr (PysD) Stout.

http://earlyinterventionteam.org/founders/drs-dallas-debra-stout

For those who wonder what a PysD is other than another fabricated worthless degree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Psychology

2 comments:

From my experience anyone who wants to be called Dr. and can't prescribe drugs has serious mental malfunctions they are dealing with - usually around overcompensating for something.

This guy and his wife look like typical meddling progressives who have spent thier whole lives trying to "Help" others... wonder if they realize they are actually causing more harm than good. Probably not.

NotEnufGarage
04-11-2011, 4:55 AM
Rip him a new one!

yellowfin
04-11-2011, 4:57 AM
Many PsyD's are legitimate clinicians (I know a few personally) but others like that one are more like Dr Julius Irving and Dr Dre, but without the Dr Pepper endorsement.

lomalinda
04-11-2011, 5:47 AM
Most of the time when I hear about someone being a doctor, I am amused to find out the type of doctorate they hold. Fair or not, for the most part, the public looks up to physicians more so than other professionals. Accordingly, gentlemen such as Dr. Stout do not mention the type of doctorate they hold, hoping to sneak through unquestioned.

I see this all the time in the hospital, with nurses holding PhDs in non-esoteric fields like "nursing theory" attempting to pass themselves off as doctors (contextually dishonest). The public isn't buying it, however, and these types toddle off into the corner as the **** hits the fan and the "real" doctors arrive to do the resuscitate the patient.

At any rate, I look forward to video of you verbally bowling the charlatan over, Kevin--if he has the stones to show up, that is.

Soldier415
04-11-2011, 7:04 AM
This is going to be goooood :D

goober
04-11-2011, 8:24 AM
:lurk5:

mosinnagantm9130
04-11-2011, 8:48 AM
This is going to be goooood :D

:lurk5:

I'm looking forward to this.

M. D. Van Norman
04-11-2011, 8:49 AM
Iíll defend the ignorant for once. Since itís self-evident that guns are bad, the believer doesnít need any additional evidence to confirm his belief. Throw in a little confirmation bias for good measure.

CalBear
04-11-2011, 8:51 AM
I can understand ignorance, but only when people don't assert their opinions as fact. It's ridiculous how many complete myths are pushed as fact by "experts" and the media: 90%, assault weapons are more dangerous, weapons aren't used in self defense, etc.

Big Ben
04-11-2011, 9:13 AM
From my experience anyone who wants to be called Dr. and can't prescribe drugs has serious mental malfunctions they are dealing with ...

I have a Master's degree and insist that everyone refer to me as "Master Ben." I don't see what the problem is ... I worked hard for that degree, and believe everyone should refer to me by it. (end sarcasm)

Sutcliffe
04-11-2011, 9:19 AM
I have a Master's degree and insist that everyone refer to me as "Master Ben." I don't see what the problem is ... I worked hard for that degree, and believe everyone should refer to me by it. (end sarcasm)

I work very hard at mastering myself and think that equally hard work deserves equal recognition.

CalBear
04-11-2011, 9:19 AM
I have a Master's degree and insist that everyone refer to me as "Master Ben." I don't see what the problem is ... I worked hard for that degree, and believe everyone should refer to me by it. (end sarcasm)
Call me senator.

G60
04-11-2011, 9:21 AM
Why did he contradict himself in the same paragraph?

"...children and teens with false assurances that they can be trained to use them safely... guns in their homes and expose their children to them as they see fit. Some parents do this responsibly..."

stix213
04-11-2011, 9:22 AM
There is zero chance of him posting here. The Brady's even close the comments of their own youtube vids.

Super Spy
04-11-2011, 9:34 AM
I have my Masters Degree in fishing....that's why my fishing buddies call me the Master Baiter :D

Seriously, Kevin I want front row seats when you debate this libtard.

modernchaos
04-11-2011, 9:42 AM
Whats funny to me about this is the statement,"An Armed Society is a "Paranoid" Society", after he clearly talks about Anti's living in fear of there child even seeing a gun, and other non sense. Who is paranoid?

CalBear
04-11-2011, 9:59 AM
Whats funny to me about this is the statement,"An Armed Society is a "Paranoid" Society", after he clearly talks about Anti's living in fear of there child even seeing a gun, and other non sense. Who is paranoid?
They want people to believe their paranoia is rational and well founded, while we're just crazy people who cling to our guns.

thedrickel
04-11-2011, 10:06 AM
Odds of him showing up here . . . lower than Ben Cannon showing up to an arbitration hearing.

wash
04-11-2011, 10:09 AM
From my experience anyone who wants to be called Dr. and can't prescribe drugs has serious mental malfunctions they are dealing with - usually around overcompensating for something.

I love playing doktor, but my specialty is treating hysteria.

Californio
04-11-2011, 10:21 AM
All my friends that are PHYSICIANS use M.D. after their name and in professional use M.D. with all their medical specialties after. Ph.D. is just B.S. PILED HIGHER and DEEPER.

G1500
04-11-2011, 10:31 AM
You need to SLEEP! :D

Rossi357
04-11-2011, 10:35 AM
MD is a doctor of medicine.
PHD is a doctor of philosophy

oaklander
04-11-2011, 10:44 AM
LOL - for some reason, none of us sleep much. Since "evil never sleeps" (i.e., our opponents) - we have a new motto - "GOOD NEVER SLEEPS" (i.e., us).

:D

You need to SLEEP! :D

Shady
04-11-2011, 10:45 AM
:20:

Connor P Price
04-11-2011, 10:46 AM
You sure do know how to ruffle feathers Oak. This will be fun to watch if he actually tries to defend his unsubstantiated claim, but I'm guessing he'll take the silent route.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

oaklander
04-11-2011, 10:57 AM
Here's what is LIKELY going to happen next:

1) He is going to ignore my email, since he apparently has NO respect for any gun owner - even one like me who is a licensed attorney, a published author, a family man, and a limited-purpose public figure.

2) His minions who work for "him" at the large SF/LA "defense" law firms, and who get "pro-bono" credit for helping his cause, are going to be afraid to contact me (they are all mostly young lawyers, and don't even want to try and mess with an old cranky lawyer who has a CA bar number that starts below "200,000.")

3) They also know that any communications they send me will be posted here, for legitimate public debate purposes.

I did this whole exercise to point out the moral vacuity of our opponents. We have to remember that DOJ/ATF/LE, etc. are NOT opponents - many times they are actually allies. BUT - pure anti-gun groups ARE total opponents.


The have no truth behind their positions.

They have no moral rationale for wanting to disarm citizens who merely want to exercise the basic right of self-defense.

Even their "thinking" is not clear, as you can see from the "article" I posted.

This does not mean that we should underestimate them - rather - it means that we need to realize that they will do and say ANYTHING - even if it's not true - TO FURTHER THEIR AGENDA.

Please remember this when you deal with people like this.

In my book, they give used car salesmen a bad name, but the twist here is that politicians sometimes listen to people like this (for their own selfish reasons).

Again, I'm simply trying to point out how things really work. I am very good at seeing truth - and I am also very good at seeing lies. Here, I see nothing but lies, promulgated by people who actually may have some form of subtle mental illness that prevents them from seeing true reality. . .

Ironic, isn't it?

ETA: just wanted to add something, so that there is ZERO confusion. I have reviewed Dr. Stout's CV that he has self-posted in numerous places on the internet. By all measures, he otherwise seems like a rational and functional member of society, and appears to do a lot of good work with troubled youth, drug addicts, and developmentally disabled persons. That being said, I see no indication that he has any expertise in firearms history, constitutional law, firearms in general, or anything else that would make him an "expert" on the "gun issue."

I know wills and trusts because I focused on "property" in law school, and have also continued to educate myself on the topic. I also know "gun law" - from my involvement in trying to get "it" straightened out. That being said, I would get into serious trouble if I started giving legal advice on "mergers and acquisitions," or other topics that I don't know about.

Here, the Dr. is trying to do something similar. He appears to have no expertise at all on the topic, yet writes pure drivel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Drivel) on the topic, and tries to set policy on the topic. While "not knowing what you are talking about" is not a bar to opining on a topic (as we see here all the time). . .

. . . members of the media and legislature should be aware that Dr. Stout is somewhat of an amateur on the whole issue.

FINALLY - Dear Dr. Stout, if I have said anything about you that is not verifiably true, please let me know what it is, so that we can discuss it. I'm most certainly willing to listen to you - but you appear not ready to listen to me. . . If you can point out something that I should edit, or explain, or whatever - please feel free to call me - my number is on my NFA Trust website - that's my personal phone number, BTW.

wash
04-11-2011, 11:23 AM
Do you think Sayre Weaver's strange behavior of late could be explained by female hysteria?

oaklander
04-11-2011, 11:26 AM
I'm a guy - and I get hysterical sometimes!!!

LOL

Everyone gets hysterical and that in itself is hysterical!!!!

Do you think Sayre Weaver's strange behavior of late could be explained by female hysteria?

Outta Control
04-11-2011, 11:32 AM
1) He is going to ignore my email, since he apparently has NO respect for any gun owner - even one like me who is a licensed attorney, a published author, a family man, and a limited-purpose public figure...

I believe this will be the most accurate outcome. People like this enjoy doing pop-shots at issues then run away and hide.

ldivinag
04-11-2011, 11:34 AM
There is zero chance of him posting here. The Brady's even close the comments of their own youtube vids.

Ditto on their Facebook site too. Once you make a opposing comment on their site you are prohibited from further comments...

wash
04-11-2011, 11:35 AM
Sorry, I only treat females.

But there is an electrical device that you can purchase for home treatment.

(sorry for carrying an off color joke a little too far)

yakmon
04-11-2011, 11:36 AM
this guy will do what all liars do when called on it. he will pretend it never happened, and continue with his lies.

Bhobbs
04-11-2011, 11:37 AM
Sorry, I only treat females.

But there is an electrical device that you can purchase for home treatment.

(sorry for carrying an off color joke a little too far)

Most people probably have no idea what that means.

oaklander
04-11-2011, 11:39 AM
It works on guys too. . .

:D

NOW - back on TOPIC!!!!!

LOL

Most people probably have no idea what that means.

Rossi357
04-11-2011, 11:40 AM
Sorry, I only treat females.

But there is an electrical device that you can purchase for home treatment.

(sorry for carrying an off color joke a little too far)

Would that be an electric toothbrush or a shake weight?

Bhobbs
04-11-2011, 11:42 AM
It works on guys too. . .

:D

NOW - back on TOPIC!!!!!

LOL

What is your course of action if you don't get a reply?

QuarterBoreGunner
04-11-2011, 11:43 AM
I love playing doktor, but my specialty is treating hysteria.

I see what you did there.

oaklander
04-11-2011, 11:46 AM
LOL - I gotta bug Kes to get a "Like" button here! I know there's a vbulletin "plug in" or something - that would be EPIC!

I see what you did there.

oaklander
04-11-2011, 11:46 AM
Cry?

What is your course of action if you don't get a reply?

Bhobbs
04-11-2011, 11:55 AM
Cry?

That's unfortunate.

There has to be a way to call them out publicly and expose them because here we know they are lying but the public most don't see our side.

oaklander
04-11-2011, 11:58 AM
Ummmm. . .

1) Posting something like THIS THREAD on a public forum (with over 50,000 members) is not "public?"

2) Emailing him directly is not "calling out?"

Would you now like me to set myself on fire, like the Buddhist monks in Vietnam?

Setting that aside, what have YOU done recently?

Please don't make me waste my time on you.

That's unfortunate.

There has to be a way to call them out publicly and expose them because here we know they are lying but the public most don't see our side.

quick draw mcgraw
04-11-2011, 11:59 AM
Great work as usual Oaklander!!

Here is my posted response to "Dr" Stout-

Dr. Stout-

While any incidences of gun violence are tragic I cannot in good conscience or common sense agree with your opinions regarding gun control.

I think that we CAN all agree that while the misuse and/or negligent storage of firearms is inherently dangerous it is no more so than the misuse and/or negligent storage of a vehicle, power tools, swimming pool, drugs, or any other potentially harmful product or activity. Furthermore, a multidude of laws are already in effect which clearly outline the proper and legal use and storage of firearms and additional laws will accomplish absolutely nothing to abolish misuse or negligence.

I am the parent of two small children and I would be absolutely devastated, as any parent would be, if either were injured or killed by one of my firearms. As such, I take my responsibility to protect them from and then educate them about firearms very seriously.

History has proven time and again that ignorance and fear are no substitution for aducation and understanding.

Firearms are but tools and when used properly, ethically, and legally they are a very effective deterent and resolution to crimes against innocent people whether inside of the home or out in public and pose very little actual danger to anyone when not purposefully intended to.

The responsibility of safety clearly lies within the owner of the said firearm, vehicle, tool, et al to obtain any necessary education and training and to protect him/herself and others from any negligent acts. The failure to do so should be met with appropriate punishment.

Therefore, to blame the gun itself as the source of all evil and demand new legislation to remove this "evil" from all law abiding citizens is foolhardy to say the least and only serves to embolden criminals, who by definition do not obey the law in the first place. Perhaps we should also demand the removal of every car and truck from our roadways as they are responsible for tens if not hundreds of thousands more deaths annually than firearms.

The simple fact is that there are over 300 million legal (and most certainly countless illegal) firearms in the United States, and no laws, no matter how draconian or unconstitutional, will have any affect on the illegal or negligent use of firearms.

Your assertion (or consolation) that the 2nd Ammendment affords me the right to self defense solely within the confines of my own home is ridiculous!

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

This iconic phrase from The Declaration of Independence is quite clear and makes no limitations as to our rights being locationally specific. As well, the 2nd Amendment clearly states the "Right to Keep and Bear Arms". It doesn't take a scholar to understand the definition of 'Bear'. It is quite obvious to even the most simple of us common folk.

Furthermore, I sincerely hope you are not suggesting that the millions of homeless people in our country have no right to defend their own lives simply because they do not have a "home", or that I or any other loving parent and spouse does not have the right to protect myself or my family from a viscious attack in a mall or grocery store parking lot.

An armed society is not a paranoid society. Rather an ignorant and negligent society is a dangerous society while a properly armed society is a very polite society and one in which I would feel very safe.

Don't you find it a little ironic and quite hypocratic that following the tragic shooting by Jared Lee Loughner the likes of The Brady Campaign and many anti-gun politicians were decrying yet again the evils of guns in the hands of citizens and again calling for their removal while at the very same time they were busy drafting new legislation allowing themselves to be armed with guns at any time!

The unfettered arming of all politicians, competent or otherwise, I will concede, IS an arming that will perhaps make for a paranoid society and will most likely lead to further dischord and alienation between our citizenship and those who are elected to serve it.

How long will we have to wait until an untrained and perhaps paranoid politician opens fire on an innocent constituent who merely wishes to meet their representative at a rally or one who happens to recognize them in public and has the temerity to approach them to say "hi".

Perhaps you and your contemporaries have chosen to live your life hiding behind your sofa while shouting at the wind, but I choose to live my life to the fullest with a dogged determination to pursue liberty and happiness as well as love and compassion for all, including the likes of yourself and others who misguidedly and unneccessarily attempt to protect me from myself. And as my 'audacious' lifestyle requires me to travel outside of the confines of my home I will not hesitate to take my "Unalienable Rights" with me wherever my life pursuits may go.

Sincerely-

Todd Newburn

dantodd
04-11-2011, 12:16 PM
I love playing doktor, but my specialty is treating hysteria.

Rofl

dantodd
04-11-2011, 12:19 PM
LOL - for some reason, none of us sleep much. Since "evil never sleeps" (i.e., our opponents) - we have a new motto - "GOOD NEVER SLEEPS" (i.e., us).

:D

You can sleep when you're dead; or truly free.

oaklander
04-11-2011, 12:29 PM
Yes - that's what Gene and Brandon say all the time!!!!

You can sleep when you're dead; or truly free.

Bhobbs
04-11-2011, 12:31 PM
Ummmm. . .

1) Posting something like THIS THREAD on a public forum (with over 50,000 members) is not "public?"

2) Emailing him directly is not "calling out?"

Would you now like me to set myself on fire, like the Buddhist monks in Vietnam?

Setting that aside, what have YOU done recently?

Please don't make me waste my time on you.

If you took that as a personal attack I apologize and did not meant it that way.

Yes this is a public thread on a public forum but we agree with you 100% so it isn't changing any opinion.

I am a poor college student that is lucky to get to shoot once every four months but I always bring new shooters with me and have involved a few more people in the sport. I don't have the money to donate all the time but I do when I can. I have helped a few people build legal ARs because they were unsure of the laws.

oaklander
04-11-2011, 12:33 PM
OK - sorry if I got a little huffy. It's just that the type of stuff that Dr. Stout (http://www.doctorsconsulting.org/html/aboutdallas.htm) wrote makes me so angry - since it is mostly lies. . .

I know the poor college student thing!!! Been there - still there! I am STILL paying on my student loans!!!

FAIL

:D

If you took that as a personal attack I apologize and did not meant it that way.

Yes this is a public thread on a public forum but we agree with you 100% so it isn't changing any opinion.

I am a poor college student that is lucky to get to shoot once every four months but I always bring new shooters with me and have involved a few more people in the sport. I don't have the money to donate all the time but I do when I can. I have helped a few people build legal ARs because they were unsure of the laws.

Outta Control
04-11-2011, 12:46 PM
... I am STILL paying on my student loans!!!

FAIL

:D

You too?

SJgunguy24
04-11-2011, 12:50 PM
If you took that as a personal attack I apologize and did not meant it that way.

Yes this is a public thread on a public forum but we agree with you 100% so it isn't changing any opinion.

I am a poor college student that is lucky to get to shoot once every four months but I always bring new shooters with me and have involved a few more people in the sport. I don't have the money to donate all the time but I do when I can. I have helped a few people build legal ARs because they were unsure of the laws.

Hey dude, do everything you can. Kevin puts in a lot of hours to further our rights and he takes things to heart sometimes. That's why we love the guy, he's passionate and devoted to the cause. There are many here like that, and we all put our work in any way we can.

oaklander
04-11-2011, 1:08 PM
I've emailed the CPP's editor before - last time he was a little more polite. It appears that he's getting tired of the truth????

What kind of world do people like him live in - where the truth is a "problem" to them????

This is getting hilarious! I seriously can't stop smiling at their ineptitude.

:D

Oaklander <Oaklander>
to Zack Kaldveer <zkaldveer@californiaprogressreport.com>
date Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 12:27 PM
subject Re: http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/site/node/8639

Zack - the most recent "Stout" article is in great need of some balance. At this point, it is so "off-the-charts" incorrect and factually wrong that it is harming your own credibility as an editor.

Please let me write a short response, it will go a long ways towards making your publication seem less partisan than it really is.

http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/site/node/8867

Best,

Kevin

[Here is his reply.]

from Zack Kaldveer <zkaldveer@californiaprogressreport.com>
to Oaklander <Oaklander>
date Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM
subject Re: http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/site/node/8639

Not interested...

ETA: since I don't call people out in private - I just emailed him a link to this post:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=6181138&postcount=58

Seriously - these people do not like to debate this issue. . . At this point, I am of the personal opinion that some of these people are not just misguided, but apparently have some sort of subtle mental defect that prevents them from seeing reality. . . You guys will remember that I was going to tattoo my hands with the motto "SEE TRUTH." Call me crazy, but I am a strong believer in Truth. And not just as a theory - but as a way to live your life.

Here, I see little or no truth.

AEtrane
04-11-2011, 1:11 PM
I don't typically post on these types of subjects, but felt obligated to give a little extra ammo for you guys to use against this guy:

I am a psych major myself, and instantly noticed that this Dr. Stout holds a PsyD degree-this type of degree is neither a PhD NOR an MD, it's an offshoot feel-goody kind of doctorate degree that doesn't pull a lot of respect among psychologists, or any academic field.

Not to offend anyone here who may hold, or be working on a PsyD program, but most of the folks who get PsyD's can typically do whatever they are doing with an MA in Clinical fields, but are pretty much restricted to providing interpersonal therapy (i.e. what most would consider a "shrink"), and do NOT do peer-reviewed research; this is the key point.

This Doctor is NOT qualified to give a professional opinion on ANY social phenomenon, much less 2A related ones.

He simply lacks the tools and know-how to make these claims, and his academic peers will call him out just as eagerly as we will. He's basically dead in the water in the professional sense, so I wouldn't worry about him rallying the academics on his side because he looks like as much of a dolt to them as he does to us.

Not to say he will try to use his alphabet soup doctorate to try and convince the masses, but he will have a hell of a time pulling any weight.

That is all

AEtrane
04-11-2011, 1:30 PM
Like I said, not to bash PsyDs too hard (we tend to not give them a fair shake in the other psychological fields), but the degree itself is more of an ego trip than anything else.

As far as attaining one, they're pretty much as rigorous as a PhD: You need strong GRE scores, A Bachelor's, a Master's (typically in Clinical or Cognitive-Behavioral), Strong CV, etc. But once you're in is where similarities end.

Where the difference lies, is that those who go the PsyD route typically just want to justify their time in school by earning that badge of "Doctor", which considering at that point, it's just another couple years, so why not? They have no interest in doing research, nor did they prepare for it during their early graduate work. They only expand upon their previously learned techniques to apply in their given field, which as I said before, is counseling and therapy. Research is a fundamental requirement in order to have credibility in the social field. Any jackwad with a degree can make some outrageous claim, as you well know (btw, I enjoyed your little spat with CSUEB-you do good work ;) ), but it won't go anywhere without the proper credentials and research to back it up. Since people like Dr. Stout like to throw that to the wind, now it takes a dynamic approach these days to stifle such rabble-rousers, I'm just putting in my 2 cents in a field I have a little knowledge about...

Since I'm starting to threadjack, I'll just reiterate the obvious: Dr. Stout has no idea what he is talking about (which you all knew already), but his fail here permeates pretty much every layer of credibility.

EDIT: was kind of addressed to Oak in regards to PsyDs, but my quote's gone missing :/

oaklander
04-11-2011, 1:39 PM
LOL - yes - I realized that I sounded over indignant!!!!

:D

So - deleted. . .

BUT - I appreciate what you said about the CSUEB thing. I personally have a real problem with media that tries to use the 1A to jack the 2A. It's as simple as that.

If CPP/Stout or whoever wants to blow their own bullhorn - then they should do us the courtesy of allowing a REAL response, and not some jackwagonesq excuse like "you get to post comments on the article."

Even CSUEB relented. . .

Now - the legal issue here is that CPP is apparently not funded with public money (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501(c)) - or is it???? If it was, and I don't have time to look it up - then we would have a very strong argument that there's kind of a public forum (http://www.jones-mayer.com/Newsletter/nl0202.html) issue here - which is the argument that CSUEB did not want to engage in (since they would have lost). . .

Any scholars here want to look up the issue of "whether an online public forum, operated by a 501(c), falls under 'Prunyard' and/or related cases????"

My intuition is that it probably does (especially under CA law - which is more liberal), but I am totally swamped in other work, so someone else needs to do the research on this. . .


EDIT: was kind of addressed to Oak in regards to PsyDs, but my quote's gone missing :/

N6ATF
04-11-2011, 2:33 PM
Evil sociopaths are incapable of feeling humility or guilt. They bask in the light of interrogation.

oaklander
04-11-2011, 2:39 PM
Exactly!

And my point is that this is the caliber of our opponents. For those of you who are balking at getting involved in the gun rights movement, please realize that it's not too hard to "win." Just takes a lot of footwork, but seriously - when you have both facts AND morals on your side, it's hard to lose. . .

Again - just takes a LOT of footwork, etc. . .

lol I was wondering the same. But after having read what he wrote, I did not want to waste another minute on this guy.

lets face it, we are giving this "Dr." his tow minutes of fame..

Outta Control
04-11-2011, 2:42 PM
Exactly!

And my point is that this is the caliber of our opponents. For those of you who are balking at getting involved in the gun rights movement, please realize that it's not too hard to "win." Just takes a lot of footwork, but seriously - when you have both facts AND morals on your side, it's hard to lose. . .

Again - just takes a LOT of footwork, etc. . .

So footwork = ?

I mean what can us CG folks do aside from contribution.

Wherryj
04-11-2011, 2:47 PM
Many PsyD's are legitimate clinicians (I know a few personally) but others like that one are more like Dr Julius Irving and Dr Dre, but without the Dr Pepper endorsement.

I knew a radiologist named Dr. Pepper. He was a fine radiologist-and made some tasty no calorie drinks. (ok, so I'm pretty sure that was a different Dr. Pepper...)

wash
04-11-2011, 2:51 PM
Speak at a city council meeting when an anti-gun policy is discussed, volunteer to man the Calguns.net booth at a gun show, take someone shooting and teach them firearm safety, tell a friend about OLLs, pelvic massage, there are lots of ways.

ptoguy2002
04-11-2011, 2:52 PM
From their about page...CFC Education Foundation has published the site in the spirit that Frank established – as an open forum for progressive voices to reach a wider audience on current events that affect our state and our world (Bold is emphasis) - What a crock, open forum huh?


They are owned by (and shares the same address as) the Consumer Federation of California Education Foundation, which is a non-profit. They should have a financial statement available because they are a non-profit, maybe that would say if they got public money?
They are a 501(c)(3) non-profit.

oaklander
04-11-2011, 2:52 PM
Yes - contact your local C3 leader - there's TONS of stuff to do!!!!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=183

There's other stuff too - but this is a good way to get started!!!!

So footwork = ?

I mean what can us CG folks do aside from contribution.

wash
04-11-2011, 3:08 PM
It's a media bias issue, the print and broadcast media are biased against gun rights, if it bleeds, it leads...

They seek out anti-gun articles and spin tragedy to promote their anti-gun agenda.

We are better off rebutting their lies than trying to convince them to print/air our side of the story. They won't do it unless it's told by a bigot, racist or crazy person to make us look bad.

Outta Control
04-11-2011, 3:11 PM
Speak at a city council meeting when an anti-gun policy is discussed

Haven't see one come up yet.

volunteer to man the Calguns.net booth at a gun show

Aside from the usual rep, do they need that much volunterrs?

take someone shooting and teach them firearm safety

Like a bum? How about a priest? Define someone that can make a difference that would be willing to listen.

tell a friend about OLLs

I have a LEO buddy in SF does that count?

pelvic massage

I guess that is all you. :)

there are lots of ways.

I am sure there are. From offering Car Washes to carrying a sign on a corner but how can we be more affective in our messaging just like what Fredieusa has stated.

N6ATF
04-11-2011, 3:20 PM
It's a media bias issue, the print and broadcast media are biased against gun rights, if it bleeds, it leads...

Or we could just make more criminals bleed from self-defense than criminals making us bleed. :rolleyes::43:

Outta Control
04-11-2011, 3:21 PM
Or we could just make more criminals bleed from self-defense than criminals making us bleed. :rolleyes::43:

I am all for that.

oaklander
04-11-2011, 3:23 PM
Please do not over-think this. Just contact your C3 leader and/or Brandon - they will give you plenty to do - and it will be stuff that makes a difference.

I got started in this by volunteering to sign up new NRA members at gun shows - and I still like to do that when I can. It's actually fun and rewarding.

Seriously - don't "pick" something - just "do" something - but do it in coordination with C3/NRA, etc. . .

Haven't see one come up yet.



Aside from the usual rep, do they need that much volunterrs?



Like a bum? How about a priest? Define someone that can make a difference that would be willing to listen.



I have a LEO buddy in SF does that count?



I guess that is all you. :)



I am sure there are. From offering Car Washes to carrying a sign on a corner but how can we be more affective in our messaging just like what Fredieusa has stated.

Outta Control
04-11-2011, 3:25 PM
Thanks Oaklander

wash
04-11-2011, 3:29 PM
As I said above, the media is biased and we need non-traditional one on one grass roots activism if we are going to try to change public perception of gun owners and gun ownership in CA.

We are always painted as violent criminals or tobacco spitting red necks in the media. If we can smash those expectations planted by the media, people will believe less and less of what they see on TV or read in the paper. They might even check the facts.

oaklander
04-11-2011, 3:34 PM
I guess the fact that I am a pro-gay rights moderate, who was once literally homeless, and who supports a Woman's Right to Choose, and who essentially minored in Black Studies at my undergraduate school, and who wrote my entrance essay to law school on Malcom X, and who is somewhat of an expert on the 60's Civil Rights Movement (and Minimalist Art, Dada, deconstructionalism, literary theory, existentialism, and Christian theology) - is going to be highly confusing to them!!!!

:D

Let's not even get into Gene, or the other guys. We are seriously smart, well-rounded, and rational people - and we defy all stereotypes. . .

We are always painted as violent criminals or tobacco spitting red necks in the media. If we can smash those expectations planted by the media, people will believe less and less of what they see on TV or read in the paper. They might even check the facts.

oaklander
04-11-2011, 3:43 PM
LOL - no problem!

We are seriously in the middle of a grass roots "revolution" (and not the violent kind - but rather the modern, effective, and legal kind).

Thanks Oaklander

Outta Control
04-11-2011, 3:47 PM
...We are always painted as violent criminals or tobacco spitting red necks in the media. If we can smash those expectations planted by the media, people will believe less and less of what they see on TV or read in the paper. They might even check the facts.

Well we think differently on people's perception then. I believe that most CA folks don't think we are violent criminals or rednecks. I think most CA folks think we are a bunch of confused individuals. I always get the question of "why?". Why do we think need it, why do this hobby, why this and why that... Most of my acquaintance, family, and individuals I have met see me as a level headed, squared-away guy and they don't look at me as a war-monger individual. So on your statement I think we need to revisit what people really think, not about guns, but responsible guns users.

MasterYong
04-11-2011, 4:19 PM
Tagged.

wash
04-11-2011, 4:28 PM
Well we think differently on people's perception then. I believe that most CA folks don't think we are violent criminals or rednecks. I think most CA folks think we are a bunch of confused individuals. I always get the question of "why?". Why do we think need it, why do this hobby, why this and why that... Most of my acquaintance, family, and individuals I have met see me as a level headed, squared-away guy and they don't look at me as a war-monger individual. So on your statement I think we need to revisit what people really think, not about guns, but responsible guns users.
They ask why because you confuse them.

You're not a violent criminal or red neck so they don't understand how you can be a good person and a gun owner (not that red necks aren't good people).

Next time tell them that people can be a gun owner without being a violent criminal or red neck, but that's a common misconception.

Wherryj
04-11-2011, 4:47 PM
Call me senator.

What do you call a lawyer with an IQ of 40?


"Senator".

I strongly suspect that you are overqualified to be called "Senator".

galekowitz
04-11-2011, 7:49 PM
This thread is awesome if Oaklanders posts are read with Charlie Sheens voice!

Keep up the good work.

oaklander
04-11-2011, 7:53 PM
OMG - that's been a running joke in our household for a couple of months now. . .

I'm actually NOT LIKE that in person (OK, sometimes) - but I'm different, because I am poor, but employed. . .

:D

WINNING (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=391104)!

This thread is awesome if Oaklanders posts are read with Charlie Sheens voice!

Keep up the good work.

oaklander
04-11-2011, 8:15 PM
OK, I'm done with this. I've made my point about the veracity and apparent character of the people "on the other side." And after this, it's just a waste of my time. I just wanted to leave you all with something that you can post wherever you want.

If there is any new news on this - I will post it here. Otherwise, I'm back to real work. Remember the lesson here is that sunshine has cleansing effects. And people who are on the wrong side of an issue absolutely will NOT debate it in public, since they know they will lose. . .

:D

http://oi55.tinypic.com/4jb9c3.jpg

gunsmith
04-11-2011, 8:34 PM
they used to have a place for the public to comment, I used to comment there.
I took a lot of time trying real hard to make precise logical arguments, striving to be polite.

the result was them ending public comment, progressives simply do not want debate as they feel they are smarter than the public ( especially a gun rights member of the public )

DarthSean
04-11-2011, 8:55 PM
You'd think someone with a PsyD would realize that the kind of highly intelligent psychopaths that do most of the premeditated shootings would find new gun laws to be merely a speed bump in their effort to obtain weapons.:rolleyes: Those kinds of people tend to be more intelligent than the politicians and put their intelligence to use for antisocial purposes.

wash
04-11-2011, 9:04 PM
Lots of doctors think that banning ATVs will reduce child injuries.

Anyone reasonable will understand that kids will find a way.

stix213
04-11-2011, 9:05 PM
http://oi55.tinypic.com/4jb9c3.jpg

I know its an image, but I still tried to press the "Like" button :p

gunsmith
04-11-2011, 9:22 PM
YOU STILL CAN, oops cap lock, anyway you can comment on their facebook page ( who knows for how long if we do )

Zomgie
04-11-2011, 11:28 PM
Commented on their Facebook page. I hate the fact I have to 'like' it. Gah.


Great work, Oaklander. At least in print, you come off as a coherent presenter, which I respect.

Lone_Gunman
04-11-2011, 11:45 PM
I gave them a little piece of my mind when they responded with the typical "It's for the chiiiiiildren".

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=93645&stc=1&d=1302590611

oni.dori
04-12-2011, 12:14 AM
Pure and unbridled political spin, nothing more; and we all know that truth, fact, and logic have no place in spin. He is nothing more than the latest spin doctor they have bribed in to joining their dwindling ranks to vainly try and bolster them. Notice how even creating buzzwords like "assault clips" isn't even working for them any more? 15 or 20 years ago, it might have, not it simply falls on more educated and well informed ears. People are realizing that they want their Civil Rights back, and that they are in control (not the liars politicians), and the Second Amendment is they key to taking them back and maintaining them.

oaklander
04-12-2011, 12:34 AM
LOL - I sometimes even pull off the "coherence thing" in real life too!!!

:D

Great work, Oaklander. At least in print, you come off as a coherent presenter, which I respect.

oaklander
04-12-2011, 1:45 AM
To Dr. Stout's credit - he is now engaging us on his FB page:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/California-Brady-Campaign-to-Prevent-Gun-Violence/114683418612313

Please go there, "Like" it - and post rational arguments (like I know you will).

When 3rd parties see these arguments - it may not change their minds - but it will give them pause. . .

SanPedroShooter
04-12-2011, 6:01 AM
Its still open if you want to give them a piece of your mind. I think that page will come down quick if we all start posting comments. Its too bad the brady cant tolerate debate. If their position is so morally strong, why is no one allowed to question it...

I suggest you go their and leave a comment, it may be a good chance to engage the enemy on their own ground. Which for some reason only has nine "like's", half (or more) are calgunners....

http://www.facebook.com/pages/California-Brady-Campaign-to-Prevent-Gun-Violence/114683418612313

ChuangTzu
04-12-2011, 6:18 AM
I "liked" the page so I could comment, but quickly removed the notification from my page, lest anyone think I actually liked it. Nevertheless, I immediately got a message from a friend "so, big fan of the Brady bill, eh?" Guess I wasn't quick enough...

oaklander
04-12-2011, 9:53 AM
Actually - I've done some research on this - MOST of the "Likes" on ALL anti-gun FB pages are from gun rights people. It's just so we can keep an eye on them. . .

OTOH - the anti's seriously don't have the cohones to "Like" pro-gun stuff. . .

SO - they have ZERO intel, and we have MUCHO intel. . .

See how this works?

:D

I "liked" the page so I could comment, but quickly removed the notification from my page, lest anyone think I actually liked it. Nevertheless, I immediately got a message from a friend "so, big fan of the Brady bill, eh?" Guess I wasn't quick enough...

AJAX22
04-12-2011, 10:12 AM
heh... well I do know that a LOT of their promotional materials/flyers/handouts get used as packaging materials for firearms and firearms component parts...

I've heard that some have tried to use it for toilet paper, but its a bit stiff to work properly

oaklander
04-12-2011, 10:20 AM
LOL - that would be the only thing about them that is "stiff!"

They are seriously funny!

I've heard that some have tried to use it for toilet paper, but its a bit stiff to work properly

Python2
04-12-2011, 10:59 AM
God I so wanted to comment, but I simply cant bring my mouse to key "like" on their forum.

rero360
04-12-2011, 11:13 AM
heh... well I do know that a LOT of their promotional materials/flyers/handouts get used as packaging materials for firearms and firearms component parts...

I've heard that some have tried to use it for toilet paper, but its a bit stiff to work properly

Thats actually a great idea, we should all contact them and have them send us all their promo material, it'll all go in the trash or whatever and help hasten the draining of their funds.:43:

ChuangTzu
04-12-2011, 12:19 PM
One might also wish to engage them on the main facebook page as well (which gets a lot more traffic):

https://www.facebook.com/bradycampaign?sk=wall

goober
04-12-2011, 1:32 PM
keep up the good work, Oak!

you know, in light of previous threads and talks we've had about framing the discussion through careful choice of language and terms, maybe we should think about not letting the antis own the "against violence" badge.

i see that gunownersagainstviolence.org is already taken, but secondamendmentagainstviolence.org and presumably many others are still available...

just an idea (obviously not an entirely original one, but hey...)

oaklander
04-12-2011, 1:49 PM
LIKE!

It would absolutely make sense for people on our end to reserve any and all useful domains, using a cheap registrar. Let's just make sure that it's done in such a way that the owner can be contacted somehow - so that if and when we choose to use a reserved domain - we can contact the owner, etc. . .

And, as you all know - please do not reserve anything that infringes on a tradename, trademark, etc. . .

The exception would be parody sites, etc. . . according to recent cases, it APPEARS that domains like bradylies.com (which is OPEN right now). . . would likely not be subject to cybersquatting or trademark issues - BUT - this isn't legal advice, to take with grain of salt, etc. . .

A lot depends on the circumstances, etc. . . - and also whether Brady wants to stir up a hornet's nest by sending C&D letters to people like us - who love to post things online and make fun of them. . .

:D

Remember folks - the 1A is why we can do this, and the 2A is why we can still have the 1A!!!!

There's also a LOT that can be done if you know SEO. See http://bit.ly/fwtX8v - that was virtually accidental BTW - Kes does not like it when you game CGN google results. Remember the "Kr*nker Pl*nker" issue.

So, keep in mind the search terms that reporters are likely to use - those of you who know SEO know how to do that. That's all I'm going to say.

WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT DO ANYTHING THAT IS SKETCHY. Our ability to continue to win here is based on our moral position on this issue - please keep that in mind.


keep up the good work, Oak!

you know, in light of previous threads and talks we've had about framing the discussion through careful choice of language and terms, maybe we should think about not letting the antis own the "against violence" badge.

i see that gunownersagainstviolence.org is already taken, but secondamendmentagainstviolence.org and presumably many others are still available...

just an idea (obviously not an entirely original one, but hey...)