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NoCash4theRange
04-10-2011, 10:23 PM
The polymer Plum Crazy lower is the topic. I'm thinking about getting one. The reviews I've read are okay and some are ill advised. I want to build my AR more for range shooting with out breaking the bank. What do you all think about this Plum Crazy Polymer Lower?

Thanks,

-NoCash

tonelar
04-10-2011, 10:37 PM
Only polymer lowers I've seen were the CavArms ones. If the PlumCrazy is of equal quality you should be GTG.
I regret not buying the CavArms lower while I had the opportunity.

7.62 Charlie
04-10-2011, 10:45 PM
I'm was thinking about getting one of these also.
I read somewhere that plumcrazy tested a couple of their lowers on full auto for 5000rnds with no problems.

gsrious
04-10-2011, 11:16 PM
my lower is still rocking. gtg guys and gals.

760knox
04-10-2011, 11:20 PM
Mine works GREAT! G2G! :thumbsup:

dieselpower
04-10-2011, 11:36 PM
for what you are going to do, dump $150 on the PC lower and go nuts on the upper. Get a good 18" mid gas upper and have fun.

West9319
04-10-2011, 11:44 PM
I've hear a lot of good things and only a few bad things regarding some short of shipping damage (fedex and USPS really whale on there packages anyways) and only one issue with the front take down pin breaking then being replaced by a metal one here's the link to the thread http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=384902&highlight=plum+crazy 4th one down.

After I'm done with my first build I'm planning on buying one for myself and the miss. Going to make 2 light weight carbines for the truck and for her. For the price and all that you get how can you not want to go for it? Even if the front pivot pin is an issue you can get a metal pin for under $10 shipped and fit it in,

IntoForever
04-11-2011, 12:01 AM
I'd have one if I could find a place in LA or OC that sells them. Not interested in saving money only to get screwed on a $75 or more transfer fee.

DdPartida
04-11-2011, 12:27 AM
T&A armory (santa ana) always seems to have them.

jonyg
04-11-2011, 7:08 AM
They're great. I just sold one, but I kept one for my 16" build. They're incredibly light and the trigger is awesome. No creep whatsoever.

LHC30
04-11-2011, 7:17 AM
I was in a store looking at one when a regular customer came in. We talked a bit and eh went to his car, brought in his PC lower (says with 3K rounds through it) and let me play. It was tight to the upper, the safety was like butter and the trigger, well, was about the best I have felt on an AR. So, I bought one....

biloutkast
04-11-2011, 7:37 AM
I'd give it a shot if I could find one in the Bay Area.

mif_slim
04-11-2011, 8:26 AM
There's 6 in my circle of friends and they all shoot great.

Super Spy
04-11-2011, 8:45 AM
There's 6 in my circle of friends and they all shoot great.

Great avatar pic, BTW!

comblock
04-11-2011, 9:00 AM
Yes. Good to go. Get a cheapie upper and you have a$500 Ar. Crazy huh?

thrillhouse700
04-11-2011, 9:15 AM
Would it be GTG for a 9mm build? I'm assuming so since it would just need a mag block? Maybe a waste I dunno.

k1dude
04-11-2011, 11:40 AM
A while back a bunch of places were selling them for $99. Now I notice everyone wants $129 to $149. Does anyone know if someone is still selling them for $99? At $99 I'd give it a try. At $149 I'd rather stick with aluminum.

NoCash4theRange
04-11-2011, 11:51 AM
As always, Thanks for the input Folks. I ordered one, AR build it is. Calguns is freaking AWESOME! You all made it a whole lot easier to make up my mind.

Thanks,

NoCash

LHC30
04-11-2011, 12:32 PM
A while back a bunch of places were selling them for $99. Now I notice everyone wants $129 to $149. Does anyone know if someone is still selling them for $99? At $99 I'd give it a try. At $149 I'd rather stick with aluminum.

I paid $129 for a COMPLETE PC lower, cant beat that for a starter.;)

OutbreakPLZ
04-11-2011, 1:22 PM
They are well working lowers, but they are ugly IMO and look cheap. Looks are alot to me, im not afraid to admit.

NoCash4theRange
04-11-2011, 5:56 PM
1 thing I forgot to mention is I'll have to have this shipped to an FFL. $50.00 for FFL and $25.00 for DROS. STill a good idea or should I go with aluminum? I'm just kind of sold on trying out this Plum Crazy lower. I think I'm going to stick with the order.

-NoCash

PsychGuy274
04-11-2011, 6:24 PM
I have one with a Stag 3H upper and it works fine.

I got it complete, out the door for $170 including tax, DROS and cable lock.

bjl333
04-11-2011, 6:25 PM
A O K !!! haha they are good to go ...

d sauce
04-11-2011, 9:14 PM
Judging by the overflow of positive votes and comments, it looks like you should be alright.

comblock
04-11-2011, 10:44 PM
1 thing I forgot to mention is I'll have to have this shipped to an FFL. $50.00 for FFL and $25.00 for DROS. STill a good idea or should I go with aluminum? I'm just kind of sold on trying out this Plum Crazy lower. I think I'm going to stick with the order.

-NoCash

someone in your area should have it available.

CGK60
04-12-2011, 5:22 AM
Mine works great, just get metal take down pins.

Milsurps
04-12-2011, 5:32 AM
I have two PC's. Their great. :D

norcal240
04-13-2011, 3:01 PM
Does anyone know if any dealer in the bay area has the plumcrazy lower in stock?

rattlesnake_nm
04-13-2011, 3:03 PM
Are the buffer tube threads made of plastic too?

morrcarr67
04-13-2011, 3:50 PM
T&A armory (santa ana) always seems to have them.

How much are they asking?

NoCash4theRange
04-13-2011, 7:49 PM
How much are they asking?

$129.99 Plum Crazy Lower + $14.23 ground shipping + $50.00 FFL + $25.00 DROS = $219.22.

I wanted this because it's a bit different and a bit cheaper than most lowers with all it comes with, in the end I'm kind of thinking I'm not saving much. I'll see it when it arrives at the FFL's location and make the decision upon inspection. If I don't like it I'll pay the shipping to send it back and and a restocking fee. It might be that I really dig it though. We'll see what happens, when it happens. (sorry for the dragged out answer)

-NoCash

BigFatPanda
04-13-2011, 8:10 PM
$129.99 Plum Crazy Lower + $14.23 ground shipping + $50.00 FFL + $25.00 DROS = $219.22.


I have wanted a Plum Crazy lower for a long while. Sadly I was a broke college student back when there was a group buy on this. Unless I can find it in a locally its really not worth it.

btw NoCash are you quoting T&A Armory on that price? If so I would be all over that since I live near Santa Ana.

7.62 Charlie
04-13-2011, 8:17 PM
Here's a cool video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzi9SbTYiR4&feature=related

NoCash4theRange
04-13-2011, 8:45 PM
[QUOTE=BigFatPanda;6198394]
btw NoCash are you quoting T&A Armory on that price?


Hey Panda,

That's actually the price from New Frontier Armory. They did included a free bullet button :)

http://www.google.com/search?q=new+frontier+armory&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.yahoo:en-US:official&client=firefox

NoCash4theRange
04-13-2011, 9:11 PM
I've hear a lot of good things and only a few bad things regarding some short of shipping damage (fedex and USPS really whale on there packages anyways) and only one issue with the front take down pin breaking then being replaced by a metal one here's the link to the thread http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=384902&highlight=plum+crazy 4th one down.

After I'm done with my first build I'm planning on buying one for myself and the miss. Going to make 2 light weight carbines for the truck and for her. For the price and all that you get how can you not want to go for it? Even if the front pivot pin is an issue you can get a metal pin for under $10 shipped and fit it in,

Thanks for sharing that thread. It's good to read up on these lowers seeing as though I've ordered one.

-NoCash

NoCash4theRange
04-13-2011, 9:15 PM
someone in your area should have it available.

I couldn't find 1 near me at all. That would have been nice.

-NoCash

Colt-45
04-13-2011, 11:19 PM
Go with the Saiga :D

hefedehefe
04-13-2011, 11:40 PM
They need to make .308 next :D

rattlesnake_nm
04-14-2011, 4:54 AM
I have heard nothing but terrible reviews here in New Mexico. The buffer tube threads stripping out after a few shots and so on. The prices I am seeing here are no cheaper than a normal aero lower with parts kit and stock. Maybe the fees and crap in cali make it a deal, but here they are considered a waste of money. I got a stripped firebird precision pistol lower last weekend for $150 out the door. I have 2 RRA lowers I paid $120 each for. For the prices I am seeing here, in NM You would have a quality lower. Hopefully one day cali will join the rest of the usa. We have a rather low gun crime rate compared to cali, and our second amendment is violated only by the feds. It makes no sense to have all of these unconstitutional laws for so long that have not even affected gun crime. It has most likely made it worse in cali. Sorry about the rant. It just bothers me seeing You guys paying over $200 for plastic lowers.

morrcarr67
04-14-2011, 8:28 AM
are you quoting T&A Armory on that price? If so I would be all over that since I live near Santa Ana.

I sent T&A a email last night and they got back to me


I have them in stock they are 159.95 with tax and dros its 198.99


I then asked if it comes with a Bullet Button?


yes it does


They open @ 11:00. I should be there close to that time.

rdmax
04-14-2011, 8:50 PM
I have read that, if you rapid fire a lot until hot, the plastic lower will melt from contact with a hot upper.

NoCash4theRange
04-14-2011, 9:17 PM
I have read that, if you rapid fire a lot until hot, the plastic lower will melt from contact with a hot upper.

Yeah, well, we're in Cali so that rapid fire thing might not happen for me unless I go out of state. Which I don't plan on doing for quite sometime, if at all. I'd love to find out if that were true, first hand.

mif_slim
04-14-2011, 9:39 PM
First off the major punishment is the gas tube, them the barrel then the bolt, by the time the bolt is hot you've put a few hundred rounds rapid fire thru it. It takes about 100 round full auto to heat up the gas tube to cherry red so I'm guessing of someone has 1000 rounds to shoot off the lower might melt. But from my experience of shooting the pC lower, I can't heat it up shooting 1000 rounds a day on a regular course.

blakdawg
04-14-2011, 9:40 PM
I bought one used from someone here on CGN and picked it up tonight. It looks nicely made - I like the adjustable stock, even though I'm basically an old-school A2 guy. Am looking forward to trying it at the range. So far, I'm impressed. We'll see about this melting stuff.

NoCash4theRange
04-14-2011, 10:41 PM
I bought one used from someone here on CGN and picked it up tonight. It looks nicely made - I like the adjustable stock, even though I'm basically an old-school A2 guy. Am looking forward to trying it at the range. So far, I'm impressed. We'll see about this melting stuff.

Mine arrived at my local gun shop today(Valkyrie Arms in Milpitas, CA.) At first glance I wanted to return it but after a few minutes I spoke with a dude who said If I don't like it, him or his buddy will buy from me. I was sold at that point. It'll be a minute before I have the rest done but when I do I'll post some pics. Stock is kind of whack. I can't wait to shoot it after the DROS period. I'll throw my buddies 223 upper on it. I'm excited to shoot already.

-NoCash

benbangui
04-14-2011, 11:59 PM
i would definatly try it for that low of a price... would make a nice "light" build

7.62 Charlie
04-15-2011, 12:09 AM
Stock is kind of whack.

Whats wrong with the stock?

NoCash4theRange
04-15-2011, 8:35 AM
I have heard nothing but terrible reviews here in New Mexico. The buffer tube threads stripping out after a few shots and so on. The prices I am seeing here are no cheaper than a normal aero lower with parts kit and stock. Maybe the fees and crap in cali make it a deal, but here they are considered a waste of money. I got a stripped firebird precision pistol lower last weekend for $150 out the door. I have 2 RRA lowers I paid $120 each for. For the prices I am seeing here, in NM You would have a quality lower. Hopefully one day cali will join the rest of the usa. We have a rather low gun crime rate compared to cali, and our second amendment is violated only by the feds. It makes no sense to have all of these unconstitutional laws for so long that have not even affected gun crime. It has most likely made it worse in cali. Sorry about the rant. It just bothers me seeing You guys paying over $200 for plastic lowers.

CALI laws are weak and somewhat confusing(to me) but we have to abide them. I wanted to do this build cause I've never seen one of these at the range before & it's cheap in price. I'm kind of getting hyped about this build.

-NoCash

NoCash4theRange
04-15-2011, 8:42 AM
Whats wrong with the stock?

It's real loose. Maybe I have to get used to it. I'll have a better opinion of it once I let off a few rounds with this bad boy!

-NoCash

NoCash4theRange
04-15-2011, 2:42 PM
They're great. I just sold one, but I kept one for my 16" build. They're incredibly light and the trigger is awesome. No creep whatsoever.



Quote:
"Most internet quotations are not accurate."
Abraham Lincoln

Great quote.... that's knowledge. Abraham Lincoln is awesome! He invented electricity;)


-NoCash (or brains)

jonyg
04-15-2011, 2:48 PM
It's real loose. Maybe I have to get used to it. I'll have a better opinion of it once I let off a few rounds with this bad boy!

-NoCash

Almost every adjustable stock has the play/wobble. If you want to get rid of it there are only a few options, and they're significantly more expensive.

It really is normal and no big deal.

T&A Armory
04-16-2011, 12:23 PM
I Do have them in stock. So far I have yet to have any problem with them. All the ones I sold have yet to come back with any issues.

The stock is a Tapco comercial stock it does wobble but thats normal with most stocks.

diego-ted
04-16-2011, 3:15 PM
I have had no problems with this one, maybe 300 rounds down.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/diego-ted/DSC00865.jpg


Diego

jdouglas
04-16-2011, 3:50 PM
...I got a stripped firebird precision pistol lower last weekend for $150 out the door. I have 2 RRA lowers I paid $120 each for. For the prices I am seeing here, in NM You would have a quality lower...
Unless I'm mistaken, those are stripped lowers you are talking about. The Plum Crazy is a complete lower with the stock, parts kit, etc included. ;) Assuming you could find one locally you would save a considerable amount over a standard complete lower.

rattlesnake_nm
04-16-2011, 3:57 PM
Unless I'm mistaken, those are stripped lowers you are talking about. The Plum Crazy is a complete lower with the stock, parts kit, etc included. ;)


You are not mistaken. Those stripped lowers aren't made of plastic either. A parts kit, and stock makes it complete for around that same price of the plastic plum crazy lowers. Even if You use a utg or leapers buffer tube and stock You will have a much better lower than the plastic. That is my opinion. I know You guys cannot assemble lowers in cali so You are stuck with the crappy plastic ones. Aero stripped lowers go on gun broker for a little as $69. In my situation, I'll never buy a airsofty plastic lower. I'm sure it works for light range use. I'm not trying to flame or anything. Just my opinion on plum whatever plastic lowers.

jdouglas
04-16-2011, 4:41 PM
...I know You guys cannot assemble lowers in cali so You are stuck with the crappy plastic ones...
AFAIK we can assemble lowers here in CA. They sell stripped lowers, parts kits, stocks, etc at the local gun shop, and I don't think they are in violation of any CA laws.

That said, I think I'm still going to go with a Stag Arms complete lower...$290 plus taxes and fees isn't an outrageous price for a decent lower already assembled. (Or is it?)

rattlesnake_nm
04-16-2011, 4:52 PM
Not at all. You do not have to worry about plastic take down pins, mag catch, and buffer tube threads prone to stripping out. It does seem kinda high, but isn't gas in cali like over $5 a gallon? If You are able to assemble, why not get one form gun broker? Palmetto state parts kits are pretty cheap. I just used one on a pistol lower, and was impressed with the quality. The pins seem to slide right in too.

Reductio
04-16-2011, 5:24 PM
Rattlesnake.... what?

You sure as heck can assemble your own lowers here in CA.

The plumb crazy IS cheaper than any completed lower or even buying the parts separately. It's also lighter, and something of a novelty as well.

The plumb crazy isn't just "plastic"... there's plenty of functioning glocks out there, aren't there? Why not try one out before just deciding it's utter crap?

rattlesnake_nm
04-16-2011, 5:26 PM
Because I have read all of the horror stories. This lower has been reviewed on a local forum here in NM. Why waste my time and money? Buy once cry once.


Edit: Added some pics I found of the buffer tube threads:
http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l541/rattlesnake505/pclfailure2.jpg
http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l541/rattlesnake505/pclfailure1.jpg

blakdawg
04-16-2011, 6:38 PM
The Plumcrazy lowers seem to run around $150-160 for a complete lower. I have not been able to find a stripped lower + parts kit + stock/buffer tube for anywhere near that amount. My impression is it's likely to be in the $250-300 range.

rattlesnake_nm
04-16-2011, 6:47 PM
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=225441056

Reductio
04-16-2011, 6:50 PM
There's nothing wrong with plumb crazy lowers for the average range ninja, just like there's nothing wrong with delton or stag. Sure, I'd want something different if I was running carbine courses, but I've heard they hold up just fine.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=225441056

+ at least $100 in transfer fees, DROS, and tax, and then add an LPK, stock, buffer.... Not worth it.

rattlesnake_nm
04-16-2011, 6:54 PM
Wow, all I'd have to pay is shipping, plus ffl transfer of $10-$30. I bet they sell the majority of pc lowers in cali.

Reductio
04-16-2011, 6:58 PM
Wow, all I'd have to pay is shipping, plus ffl transfer of $10-$30. I bet they sell the majority of pc lowers in cali.

Naw, you can get lowers out here from a lot of stores for around $100 + tax + $25 DROS. It's not terribly expensive, but after you build it all out....

rattlesnake_nm
04-16-2011, 7:01 PM
Building it out is nothing. You can get a $50 utg stock, with buffer tube assembly, and a cheap dpms, cmmg, or palmetto lpk for around $60. So it would not be too much more than a pc, and have a real alum lower. Just my .02. The utg may not be great but i bet it is comparable to the re used on the pc lowers.

fishandhunt4ever
04-17-2011, 8:24 AM
Because I have read all of the horror stories. This lower has been reviewed on a local forum here in NM. Why waste my time and money? Buy once cry once.


Edit: Added some pics I found of the buffer tube threads:
http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l541/rattlesnake505/pclfailure2.jpg
http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l541/rattlesnake505/pclfailure1.jpg

I remember seeing that same exact picture from a different forum website, and you forgot to add in that the guy sent it back to Plum Crazy, and it was replaced, no hassles and charge, if I remember right.

bombadillo
04-17-2011, 8:33 AM
Its not THAT much lighter than the aluminum counterpart, and the internals are all plastic. I just about went that route a few weeks ago, but decided to get an aluminum instead. You can get a palmetto state armory lower for $79, $50LPK, $50 Buttstock, and be out $30 more and be able to mount anything from a .50 to a .22lr on it and be good to go. I would be a bit concerned about the plastic internals (including hammer) going south on me if I ever needed them. Spend the extra $30 and go that route, you'll end up happier.

mif_slim
04-17-2011, 8:50 AM
I actually like the plastic parts. Not that I'll use it forever but, it sure more crisp and smooth then stock metal parts.

Ripon83
04-17-2011, 9:08 AM
Spend $600 at Frontier, enjoy combined shipping and DROS 5 complete lowers at the same time.....total bill $700 and you have five complete lowers including the parts kits already built in.....that is 140 each total....

bombadillo
04-17-2011, 9:26 AM
I just did my "budget/KISS" build and spent a whopping $756 for a Billet TKS lower, Palmetto LPK, Palmetto Buttstock (standard mil-spec 6 pos.) and a 4150 Barrel M4 cuts, and Magpul BUIS for EVERYTHING. It can be done for such a small amount more, that I'd go with the forged and you can be sure its gonna last a long time. While I don't knock anybody who goes with the plumcrazy stuff, I wouldn't do it myself. I've heard nothing really all that bad that wouldn't potentially happen to a forged, but to me metal is real. I know Glock blah blah blah, and I have a few polymer pistols but when I hold my 1911's, I know I'm holding a real gun. I think the weight difference is so small, that you probably wouldn't be able to tell much when its all said and done. I'll weigh mine out and see what its at and post back when its all done.

mif_slim
04-17-2011, 11:24 AM
Oh trust me, weight does a lot when your hiking up n down steep hills. 1 lbs becomes 50 lbs.

But you are right about price difference but then the beauty of PC lower is that it's just another option for AR and is a buy it or not type of deal. For what it is, it's a good complete lower.

rattlesnake_nm
04-17-2011, 12:16 PM
I remember seeing that same exact picture from a different forum website, and you forgot to add in that the guy sent it back to Plum Crazy, and it was replaced, no hassles and charge, if I remember right.

Ok so plum crazy replaced it for another plastic lower with plastic threads, and internals. And?

diego-ted
04-17-2011, 1:07 PM
Give it up rattler, you have been sitting out in that Land of Entrapment sun way too long. That is one lower that has been around the web for at least a year, show me back to back to back problems and then you might have something. You cannot even come close to the PC lower for $125 bucks. And no metal lower has ever had any problems!!

Diego, I am the original New Mexican Outlaw!!

rattlesnake_nm
04-17-2011, 1:28 PM
I can show You back to back problems:
\
First impressions, seems like an EXCELLENT value for a plinker lower. I already know I wouldnt want this for a serious gun due to the following issues.

1) Pin walk. The trigger pin walks already and hasnt even seen any rounds down range. And beffore someone asks, the trigger spring is in correctly. The other lower he had assembled in the shop does the same thing.

2) For some reason you can put firearm into safe with the hammer in the fired position. The safety does seem to work properly otherwise.

3) Plastic mag catch. Not sure how I feel about this but skeptical is an understatement

Lastly, the flashing from the mold is a touch ugly. If you wanted a pretty lower you probably wouldnt be buying a cheapo polymer like this though.

The buffer tube and assembly come with the lower, completely assembled. All you need is a magazine and an upper.

The buffer and spring are highly questionable quality.

Those are comments from a guy here who was given 3 to review.


Here is a comment from a 07 ffl out here who has experience with them: I have experience with these. They are junk, at any time, I MEAN ANY the threads on the lower for the buffertube WILL strip and your stock will come off on your shoulder! Also, the take down pins and fire controls are plastic and in the event of a ruptured case or serious jam they will scar deeply and perminately. Just FYI.

And the guy who split his in half posted above. Thats pretty bad.

I'll give it up Diego, just trying to put out a different side.

bombadillo
04-17-2011, 1:49 PM
Give it up rattler, you have been sitting out in that Land of Entrapment sun way too long. That is one lower that has been around the web for at least a year, show me back to back to back problems and then you might have something. You cannot even come close to the PC lower for $125 bucks. And no metal lower has ever had any problems!!

Diego, I am the original New Mexican Outlaw!!

Yes you can.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/1633.php
Lower "build kit" from palmetto $99 bucks

http://palmettostatearmory.com/1560.php
Palmetto lower for $79

$20 Bullet Button

Grand total: $199!!!!!

http://newfrontierarmory.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=91_209&products_id=561
$150 for a plum crazy lower. The difference from a $150 lower assembly and a $199 lower assembly is going to be negated by any lower failure of the receiver of any kind. Say one thing goes wrong and is messed up for any reason, you're out a new lower at least. I've heard of so few lowers that have been out of spec or damaged by anything but negligence, that if you're building an AR-15, the $50 difference should be NOTHING in the long run.

Yes there is about a $40-50 difference and the value of a PC lower is slightly higher, but is the gain really all that much??

hardertr
04-18-2011, 6:00 AM
I have quite a bit of experience with the PCF Lowers. I have "several" builds using then...both carbines and pistols.

Positives:
- They ARE light
- They ARE cheap
- The do make for a SUPER tight fit with any upper
- They do work when they don't break

Negatives:
- The plastic FCG has some issues (Breaks if you dry fire w/o an upper. Hammer wears a little, especially on unshrouded carriers. Hammer is a bit wider than mil-spec - won't work on my PSE TAC-15)
- EVERYTHING is plastic minus the buffer assembly and springs
- I'm hearing from other guys they sent out a batch with 4 position stocks instead of the advertised 6 position...not TOO big a deal...BUT apparently, the 4 position buffer tubes are MIL-SPEC with a commercial butt stock mounted on it. A HUGE NEGATIVE if this actually proves to be the case.
- ZERO support when it comes to their website! There are a couple of us in the forum trying to keep it going and answering new questions, but the PCF staff is pretty much nonexistent!
- At least one instance from the small group (less than about 20 active) in the forum with one lower that broke at the rear take-down pin using a 45 ACP (Oly Arms) upper.
- There is TALK on the forum of a guy running a 50 Beo...haven't heard form him in a while....
- I wouldn't trust the lower to anything more than a 7.62x39 (which I have).
- 5.7 uppers seem to be hit or miss on functioning.

I started with ONE PCF lower for kicks. It is STILL working great after about 2K rounds of 5.56. I bought a few more, and gave 3 to my brothers for 5.56 rigs. They love them as well.

Forgot to add... For those that think it's a deal breaker.... Most mags don't drop free. MagPul is hit-or-miss (all of mine take a VERY light pull to get it out) but another guys says he has not problems. All of my C-Prod and Tango Down mags drop free. NONE of my "acquired from work" mags fall free.

And yes, they do seem to be good about replacing whatever breaks, but they are hard to get ahold of the first call. FORGET about emailing them!

NoCash4theRange
04-19-2011, 9:53 PM
I have heard nothing but terrible reviews here in New Mexico. The buffer tube threads stripping out after a few shots and so on. The prices I am seeing here are no cheaper than a normal aero lower with parts kit and stock. Maybe the fees and crap in cali make it a deal, but here they are considered a waste of money. I got a stripped firebird precision pistol lower last weekend for $150 out the door. I have 2 RRA lowers I paid $120 each for. For the prices I am seeing here, in NM You would have a quality lower. Hopefully one day cali will join the rest of the usa. We have a rather low gun crime rate compared to cali, and our second amendment is violated only by the feds. It makes no sense to have all of these unconstitutional laws for so long that have not even affected gun crime. It has most likely made it worse in cali. Sorry about the rant. It just bothers me seeing You guys paying over $200 for plastic lowers.

Thanks for your opinion. I think I'm going to build on it. I'll keep you all posted.

-NoCash

captbilly
04-19-2011, 11:01 PM
I have heard nothing but terrible reviews here in New Mexico. The buffer tube threads stripping out after a few shots and so on. The prices I am seeing here are no cheaper than a normal aero lower with parts kit and stock. Maybe the fees and crap in cali make it a deal, but here they are considered a waste of money. I got a stripped firebird precision pistol lower last weekend for $150 out the door. I have 2 RRA lowers I paid $120 each for. For the prices I am seeing here, in NM You would have a quality lower. Hopefully one day cali will join the rest of the usa. We have a rather low gun crime rate compared to cali, and our second amendment is violated only by the feds. It makes no sense to have all of these unconstitutional laws for so long that have not even affected gun crime. It has most likely made it worse in cali. Sorry about the rant. It just bothers me seeing You guys paying over $200 for plastic lowers.

You can buy a forged aluminum lower in California for $67 (I bought three of them just before Christmas), but that was only the lower (no stock, buffer, trigger group, etc.). The Plumb Crazy lower for $100 - $150 is complete, with everything but the upper, so comparing it to a bare lower receiver is misleading. I like the idea of a composite lower receiver, but even though it is a bit lighter the difference in weight of the total gun is only a few ounces on a 5-10lb. gun, so it makes little difference in the end.

As to the problems with California vs. NM: I like NM, I like the desert, but California is the forth largest economy in the world, while NM is not even in the top 100. Without California the US economy would be smaller than China, Japan, and maybe Germany, with California we have the largest economy in the world (unless one considers the EU as a single economy, in which case they are the largest in the world) It is unrealistic to think that California could be run effectively with the same culture and laws as NM. It may be true that many of California's gun laws don't make much sense, but based on economics it would make more sense to say that "maybe one day the rest of the USA will join California", then it does to say that "maybe one day California will join the USA".

rattlesnake_nm
04-20-2011, 6:29 AM
You can buy a forged aluminum lower in California for $67 (I bought three of them just before Christmas), but that was only the lower (no stock, buffer, trigger group, etc.). The Plumb Crazy lower for $100 - $150 is complete, with everything but the upper, so comparing it to a bare lower receiver is misleading. I like the idea of a composite lower receiver, but even though it is a bit lighter the difference in weight of the total gun is only a few ounces on a 5-10lb. gun, so it makes little difference in the end.

As to the problems with California vs. NM: I like NM, I like the desert, but California is the forth largest economy in the world, while NM is not even in the top 100. Without California the US economy would be smaller than China, Japan, and maybe Germany, with California we have the largest economy in the world (unless one considers the EU as a single economy, in which case they are the largest in the world) It is unrealistic to think that California could be run effectively with the same culture and laws as NM. It may be true that many of California's gun laws don't make much sense, but based on economics it would make more sense to say that "maybe one day the rest of the USA will join California", then it does to say that "maybe one day California will join the USA".

It is not misleading. Bombadillo, broke it down $199 for a complete alum lower. I cannot speak to the economy in Cali, just the news said cali was "bankrupt, and issuing i owe you's for tax refunds. The rest of us will never "join" california when it comes to stripping freedom from the individual, not without alot of bloodshed.

bombadillo
04-20-2011, 6:57 AM
You can buy a forged aluminum lower in California for $67 (I bought three of them just before Christmas), but that was only the lower (no stock, buffer, trigger group, etc.). The Plumb Crazy lower for $100 - $150 is complete, with everything but the upper, so comparing it to a bare lower receiver is misleading. I like the idea of a composite lower receiver, but even though it is a bit lighter the difference in weight of the total gun is only a few ounces on a 5-10lb. gun, so it makes little difference in the end.


The Plum Crazy lowers are not $100-150. They are Minimum $149 with the bullet button installed from frontier armory. Then you're looking at a $50-100 transfer unless you happen to live right there. My local guy charges me $50 total for a transfer including DROS and that's why I get a killer deal on building up lowers but why I'd stay with a forged instead of a polymer. Right now you can actually build a lower for: $64.95 lower (still palmetto through calguns discount) $100 "build kit" for a buttstock and lower parts kit. $20 more and you get your bullet button or find a used one here cheaper and you're done. Right now they're $35 more to buy a forged over a plastic lower.

Also, I hate calling them "polymer'' because glock and others do. Yes I understand the benefits to a certain degree but for just a few more bucks, you can get a forged t-7075 aluminum lower with steel internal parts and while it may not for others, it sure makes me feel better when I have a tiny explosion next to my face over and over. Either way, if one or the other blew up it would be a bad day, and I'm sure neither will if treated properly, but I just prefer the aluminum.

NoCash4theRange
04-20-2011, 10:02 AM
I have had no problems with this one, maybe 300 rounds down.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/diego-ted/DSC00865.jpg


Diego

I like that. What kind of hand guard is that? Let me get some details Brotha.

-NoCash

SDgarrick
04-21-2011, 8:27 PM
This was asked before.

Any shops in the Bay Area selling these?

NoCash4theRange
04-21-2011, 10:09 PM
This was asked before.

Any shops in the Bay Area selling these?

None that I know of.

KIDRR
04-22-2011, 9:26 AM
I want to get one and do a light as possible build and see if I can get something in around 5-6lbs. It's not really the cost, I mean who the hell has only one AR anyway.

hefedehefe
04-26-2011, 8:48 AM
This sounds good to me :DYes you can.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/1633.php
Lower "build kit" from palmetto $99 bucks

http://palmettostatearmory.com/1560.php
Palmetto lower for $79

$20 Bullet Button

Grand total: $199!!!!!

http://newfrontierarmory.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=91_209&products_id=561
$150 for a plum crazy lower. The difference from a $150 lower assembly and a $199 lower assembly is going to be negated by any lower failure of the receiver of any kind. Say one thing goes wrong and is messed up for any reason, you're out a new lower at least. I've heard of so few lowers that have been out of spec or damaged by anything but negligence, that if you're building an AR-15, the $50 difference should be NOTHING in the long run.

Yes there is about a $40-50 difference and the value of a PC lower is slightly higher, but is the gain really all that much??

NoCash4theRange
04-26-2011, 9:43 AM
I want to get one and do a light as possible build and see if I can get something in around 5-6lbs. It's not really the cost, I mean who the hell has only one AR anyway.

When I'm done with this build I'll be the one with 1 AR. I think eventually I'll need to do a 2nd build though.

-NoCash

NoCash4theRange
04-28-2011, 8:58 PM
I just picked up my PC lower. I like it! I had a buddy throw his complete upper on it and I'm feeling PC. I have to get my upper built and I'll be all good to go :D

hardertr
04-28-2011, 9:08 PM
Did you get one with a 4 or 6 position stock?

NoCash4theRange
04-29-2011, 12:12 AM
Did you get one with a 4 or 6 position stock?

It's a 4 position, I was expecting a 6 position.

-NoCash

hardertr
04-29-2011, 5:24 AM
Well...guess what buddy..... You got screwed and don't even know it.

Pull the butt stock off and look at the tube. The end of your tube is flat, correct? You'll find, if you care to check the tube with a gauge, you were sent a lower assembled with a mil-spec tube but a commercial butt stock put on it.

Oh, and it gets better.... I talked to PCF about it when I heard another owner ask about it. PCF DECIDED to put them together like this to "meet customer demand" until their supplier got more commercial tubes on hand.

Give PCF a call and tell them you are yet another customer they screwed. They will either send you a new mil-spec butt stock, or a commercial tube....your choice until they run out of tubes I guess. THEN, they'll tell you to send the part being replaced back. Make them send you a prepaid label!

OutkastSL
04-29-2011, 6:28 AM
where did you get the PC lower NoCash? I just bought a lower but I wouldn't mind finding a stripped lower because I want to build a lightweight AR. I'm in a wheelchair so it'll make more sense for a lighter, more manuverable AR.

jonyg
04-29-2011, 7:17 AM
where did you get the PC lower NoCash? I just bought a lower but I wouldn't mind finding a stripped lower because I want to build a lightweight AR. I'm in a wheelchair so it'll make more sense for a lighter, more manuverable AR.

As far as I'm aware, they don't come in stripped lowers, only complete ones.

NoCash4theRange
04-29-2011, 8:20 AM
where did you get the PC lower NoCash? I just bought a lower but I wouldn't mind finding a stripped lower because I want to build a lightweight AR. I'm in a wheelchair so it'll make more sense for a lighter, more manuverable AR.

I purchased the PC complete lower, not stripped. I found it on New Frontier Armory.

-NoCash

NoCash4theRange
04-29-2011, 8:26 AM
Well...guess what buddy..... You got screwed and don't even know it.

Pull the butt stock off and look at the tube. The end of your tube is flat, correct? You'll find, if you care to check the tube with a gauge, you were sent a lower assembled with a mil-spec tube but a commercial butt stock put on it.

Oh, and it gets better.... I talked to PCF about it when I heard another owner ask about it. PCF DECIDED to put them together like this to "meet customer demand" until their supplier got more commercial tubes on hand.

Give PCF a call and tell them you are yet another customer they screwed. They will either send you a new mil-spec butt stock, or a commercial tube....your choice until they run out of tubes I guess. THEN, they'll tell you to send the part being replaced back. Make them send you a prepaid label!

Thanks for the info. I have to check this out after work. I think I'll go with the mil-spec butt stock though.

-NoCash

hardertr
05-05-2011, 9:15 AM
Thanks for the info. I have to check this out after work. I think I'll go with the mil-spec butt stock though.

-NoCash

Did you get everything worked out? Did you have any problems dealing with them once you got ahold of them?

Just curious, because there are a couple of us on the PCF homepage forum trying to help out any new guys that come along. I have a few of them, but will never buy from them again, even though the lowers I have are running great.

bombadillo
05-05-2011, 9:25 AM
Thats such a bum deal. You would hope a company would not try to screw the customer by giving them a sloppy product and just backorder something even if that means losing a few bucks just to maintain integrity in a community, especially one like the firearms community. I was skeptical on them and for the money I could buy an aluminum lower anyway for just a few bucks more, but now its a deal breaker that they would do something like this. I will now steer people away just for the sake of shady business decisions.

hardertr
05-05-2011, 9:38 AM
They have all but abandoned those of use that found their forum on the homepage. The last update to the site was October of last year, and most of the pages only show "under construction" since that date. They also seem to have abandoned their Facebook page.

The ONLY way anybody seems to get any help from PCF is if they call and actually get somebody to answer. They rarely ever answer emails or phone messages, and you can forget about trying to contact them through their site.

I like to ride them pretty hard. They are still convinced their lowers are more durable than aluminum, that is far from the truth. We had a guy drop one of his from a shooting bench, and it broke in two. There was also a guy that blew his apart shooting a 45ACP upper. I had planned to mount my 7.62x39 upper on one, ain't happening now!

You still get guys begging for them to build a 308 (AR10) upper. I'de rather stand in front of a freight train blindfolded than be anywhere near these if they come out. It wouldn't surprise me if PCF does come out with one (before they go out of business completely)...after all, that's where the money is.

Like I've said before though, I'm happy with the particular lowers i got my hands on. I have both carbine and pistol configurations and only shoot 5.56 or 22LR in them. WHEN the FCG breaks, I'm going to gut the lower and replace everything with a regular lower parts kit. WHEN the retaining pins and ears break of, I'll throw the lower away and build a complete aluminum lower for $160.

Lead Waster
05-05-2011, 9:49 AM
What I paid for a complete lower from parts for comparison

JD Machine stripped lower = $110 (bought from gun show, no shipping)
DROS = $25
Model 1 Sales A2 stock (with buffer and stuff) = $55
LPK (I bought the RRA 2 stage which was 130, but DMPS has simple one $60) = $60
Bullet button = $20

so that's $110+55+60+20 = $245 (minus DROS + tax + shipping)
For mine with the RRA 2 stage trigger = $315.
Like an idiot, most parts came from a bunch of sources, so add like $30 for shipping from various places)

So $150 < $245. I dunno, looks like a good deal for a range AR.

hefedehefe
05-05-2011, 10:04 AM
How does one build a complete lower for $160?They have all but abandoned those of use that found their forum on the homepage. The last update to the site was October of last year, and most of the pages only show "under construction" since that date. They also seem to have abandoned their Facebook page.

The ONLY way anybody seems to get any help from PCF is if they call and actually get somebody to answer. They rarely ever answer emails or phone messages, and you can forget about trying to contact them through their site.

I like to ride them pretty hard. They are still convinced their lowers are more durable than aluminum, that is far from the truth. We had a guy drop one of his from a shooting bench, and it broke in two. There was also a guy that blew his apart shooting a 45ACP upper. I had planned to mount my 7.62x39 upper on one, ain't happening now!

You still get guys begging for them to build a 308 (AR10) upper. I'de rather stand in front of a freight train blindfolded than be anywhere near these if they come out. It wouldn't surprise me if PCF does come out with one (before they go out of business completely)...after all, that's where the money is.

Like I've said before though, I'm happy with the particular lowers i got my hands on. I have both carbine and pistol configurations and only shoot 5.56 or 22LR in them. WHEN the FCG breaks, I'm going to gut the lower and replace everything with a regular lower parts kit. WHEN the retaining pins and ears break of, I'll throw the lower away and build a complete aluminum lower for $160.

hardertr
05-05-2011, 10:22 AM
How does one build a complete lower for $160?

Sorry, I misspoke. Being in NC, I can put a lower together for right around $160. I didn't figure in cost for the bullet button or DROS (which you still have to pay for a PC lower, correct??)

Aero Precision stripped receiver ($60):
http://www.jsesurplus.com/surplusammostrippedlowerreceiver-special10thanniversarydiscountthrough53111.aspx

Stock set and lower parts kit ($95):

http://surplusammo.mybigcommerce.com/products/TAPCO-AR-T6-Stock-%26-DPMS-Lower-Parts-Kit.html

OR, you can get a complete lower (minus bullet button) for $165:

http://surplusammo.mybigcommerce.com/products/%2ASurplus-Ammo-%26-Arms-AR15-Lower-Complete-with-Stock.html

bombadillo
05-05-2011, 11:17 AM
How does one build a complete lower for $160?


Palmetto state armory forged T7075 aluminum lower :$79.00 or if you go with the Calguns group buy I believe they were $65

Palmetto "Lower build kit" which includes a 6 position mil-spec stock assembly, LPK, and pistol grip of course. $100 bucks

http://palmettostatearmory.com/1633.php

You're out $179 if you don't go through the group buy discount and you have a real metal receiver that will last you a lifetime if you take care of it. SOOOOOOOOO much better IMO if you go this route rather than a plastic thing.

Grassninja
05-05-2011, 11:24 AM
Taken from another website:

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/136/cimg0044l.jpg
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2064/cimg0033f.jpg
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/796/cimg0034a.jpg

The user reported ~600 rounds shot with it, the receiver cracked while field stripping for cleaning.

YMMV, I personally wouldn't waste my time or money with one.

NoCash4theRange
05-05-2011, 11:56 AM
Did you get everything worked out? Did you have any problems dealing with them once you got ahold of them?

Just curious, because there are a couple of us on the PCF homepage forum trying to help out any new guys that come along. I have a few of them, but will never buy from them again, even though the lowers I have are running great.

You know what I still haven't gotten around to getting a hold of them. Busy at work. I'll keep you posted though.

Thanks,

NoCash

NoCash4theRange
06-05-2011, 3:14 AM
Well...guess what buddy..... You got screwed and don't even know it.

Pull the butt stock off and look at the tube. The end of your tube is flat, correct? You'll find, if you care to check the tube with a gauge, you were sent a lower assembled with a mil-spec tube but a commercial butt stock put on it.

Oh, and it gets better.... I talked to PCF about it when I heard another owner ask about it. PCF DECIDED to put them together like this to "meet customer demand" until their supplier got more commercial tubes on hand.

Give PCF a call and tell them you are yet another customer they screwed. They will either send you a new mil-spec butt stock, or a commercial tube....your choice until they run out of tubes I guess. THEN, they'll tell you to send the part being replaced back. Make them send you a prepaid label!

I sent the email just now regarding this "mistake". I'll update when I receive a response. Thanks for the information.

-NoCash

r3dn3ck
06-05-2011, 6:01 AM
I have a few of them. They're good enough for me. Tight fitting, no rattles, decent trigger (not a good one, just decent), inexpensive and they arrive complete.

hardertr
06-05-2011, 6:13 AM
I sent the email just now regarding this "mistake". I'll update when I receive a response. Thanks for the information.

-NoCash

It is possible now that you have a mil-spec/mil-spec combination. Once they realized new buyers were catching on, they decided to order a bunch of the mil-spec stocks to go with their batch of mil-spec tubes they had on hand. I don't know if there is any way to tell which stock you got without trying it on a commercial tube. They use Tapco stocks on them, so it is possible there is a part number on it somewhere I guess.

NoCash4theRange
06-06-2011, 8:26 PM
My email was answered from David down at New Frontier Armory in less than a day, the following emails were answered crazy fast(my last email was answered in less than 5 mins, from an Android phone, after work hours). David "Guido" Famiglietti down at New Frontier Armory agreed to replace the entire lower on their dime (UPS account code) with almost no questions asked. I don't know if they're like this with all customers but I sure am happy with the way they're handling this. I did let them know folks on Calguns have discussions on their lowers and I posted a link to this thread, from there it was almost too easy. I thought I was going to be dealing with someone defensive and there would be some type of back and forth negative emails. Not the case at all. We'll see how it all plays out in the end. So far customer service is off the hook! Great Job New Frontier Armory!

-NoCash


Well...guess what buddy..... You got screwed and don't even know it.Pull the butt stock off and look at the tube. The end of your tube is flat, correct? You'll find, if you care to check the tube with a gauge, you were sent a lower assembled with a mil-spec tube but a commercial butt stock put on it.

Oh, and it gets better.... I talked to PCF about it when I heard another owner ask about it. PCF DECIDED to put them together like this to "meet customer demand" until their supplier got more commercial tubes on hand.

Give PCF a call and tell them you are yet another customer they screwed. They will either send you a new mil-spec butt stock, or a commercial tube....your choice until they run out of tubes I guess. THEN, they'll tell you to send the part being replaced back. Make them send you a prepaid label!