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map
04-09-2011, 3:41 PM
Good or bad? Why do you feel the way you feel? What are your experiences with this brand?

Reductio
04-09-2011, 3:43 PM
IB4 BCM fanboys.

I love my stag, runs wolf, silver bear, PMC, and 5.56 just fine, nothing wrong with them at all.

AeroEngi
04-09-2011, 3:45 PM
There's nothing wrong with BCM. There's a reason why there are so many BCM "fanboys" =)

Fern
04-09-2011, 3:46 PM
Good or bad? Why do you feel the way you feel? What are your experiences with this brand?

Wondering the same thing.

Reductio
04-09-2011, 3:53 PM
There's nothing wrong with BCM. There's a reason why there are so many BCM "fanboys" =)

Nothing "wrong" with them except they're the Arfcom type elites who see fit to call every other upper inadequate. Hell, even Delton functions fine for a range warrior. If I had the money to be running training courses, I'd have a more expensive upper, but the fact is I (along with a lot of gunners these days) simply don't.

chuck berry
04-09-2011, 4:25 PM
I was going to buy a stag model 8 or something similiar. I really liked the way they felt holding them but I never shot one. Very light thoug

ArkinDomino
04-09-2011, 4:50 PM
Stag sucks.





































And no I won't explain why because I've already done so on many different occasions. You can see all of those posts and others that agree with me if you use the search button. For $%^&^ sake there's a even a custom google search set up for calguns. Come on guys, get with the program and stop creating unnecessary threads. Buy a BCM because the quality is beyond amazing with the near same price of a POS stag.

Lost.monkey
04-09-2011, 4:54 PM
I like mine, but I feel I paid too much for it knowing I could have built a BCM for the same price.

At 1000 rounds, I had to replace the stag disconnector & hammer, but ran out another 300 rounds today no problem.

Uhhlexxxis
04-09-2011, 5:27 PM
I had a Stag, no complaints.. I still have it in my safe with another lower I plan to build for it. I've since *upgraded* it with BCM bolt, PRI charging handle, YHM free float, and vortex flash . I went with a BCM EAG upper on my primary lower and haven't looked back since. the Stag went bang every time with every kind of ammo I fed it.

supersonic
04-09-2011, 6:04 PM
I own both a Stag & a BCM and neither have ever malfunctioned. I prefer the 1/7 for the longer bullets I shoot, but Stag now has that option. And, Stag has a Lifetime Warranty. Both are very good weapons. Is one built with a bit more quality? Sure. But for anything other than going to war, Stag is GTG. Several LE agencies use Stags as well. As far as the "Stag Sucks" post, well, you probably had a problem that exists in all weapons that are manufactured: once in a great while, something can go wrong. That's what the Warranty & CS is for.

supersonic
04-09-2011, 6:15 PM
Stag sucks.
And no I won't explain why because I've already done so on many different occasions. You can see all of those posts and others that agree with me if you use the search button. For f**k sake there's a even a custom google search set up for calguns. Come on guys, get with the program and stop creating unnecessary threads. Buy a BCM because the quality is beyond amazing with the near same price of a POS stag.

OK, maybe my search skills are a bit off, so why don't you please provide us with either a link OR what word to type into a search. I want to see this.

map
04-09-2011, 7:49 PM
OK, maybe my search skills are a bit off, so why don't you please provide us with either a link OR what word to type into a search. I want to see this.

Plus one...

To all that contributed. Thank you for your feedback.

drifts1
04-09-2011, 8:34 PM
Stag is GTG

mrvash
04-09-2011, 8:35 PM
Stag's are great, well made rifles.

ceasefire15
04-09-2011, 8:36 PM
I have a stag upper and lower and it works fine. I don't do any competition, range use only.

I didn't feel like spending too much. As long as your happy, its fine!

http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc378/sacease/AR15%20and%20Glock%2023%20OD/DSC_0474-1.jpg

jonnyt16
04-09-2011, 8:40 PM
I have a Stag (2HT) and so far, so good. Haven't shot thousands of rounds through her but no complaints as of yet.

dieselpower
04-09-2011, 8:41 PM
Stag is a quality manufacture. No more or less problem with a Stag than any other manufacture. Good customer service, good warranty on factory made firearms, solid company that isn't going anywhere.

JamminJ
04-09-2011, 9:02 PM
I have a Stag Model 4 and am very pleased with it. I've put maybe 1000 rounds of PMC & Federal though it with no problems at all. Only non positive thing I have to say is the furniture feels a little plastic-y and cheap but this has not impacted functionality at all.

I'm considering adding an M4 style AR to the collection and may very well make it another Stag.

ARfiend
04-09-2011, 9:14 PM
I have had a couple of Stag's and put thousands of rounds through both of them and never had an issue. I know others who have them and no problems from theirs either. Sounds like they may have had a couple of issues over the years but overall I wouldn't shy away from them.

1forall
04-09-2011, 9:19 PM
Good or bad? Why do you feel the way you feel? What are your experiences with this brand?

Good(maybe not the best).
Great company, they stand behind their stuff, great warranty.
I did alot of searching and research before purchasing my Stag. It was my first AR style rifle and it's been awesome thus far. No problems whatsoever, it eats everything that I feed it, no FTFs, no FTEs, no hiccups, no nothing. I've since then built "better" quality rifles, but the Stag will always accompany me to the range and also be my go to rifle. I don't think you'll be unhappy with one.

Mr_Monkeywrench
04-09-2011, 9:40 PM
Ok, here is my experience with a stag. I own a stag 2T and I FREEKING LOVE IT!!! I have ran it through a couple of carbine clinics where I was running 600 +/- a day and I did not have one single malfunction. The only problems I had with it was ME not seating the magazine properly. It was not the rifles fault. Just keep it wet and it will love you (just like every other AR out there). Now, let me get to accuracy. I have no problem shooting 1 M.O.A. with this rifle and 55gr American eagle, brown bear, and tula ammo. At 25 yards, I was shooting in a .25" circle. At 100 yards 1 inch groups with a stock single stage trigger. I could just imagine what it would do with match ammo. It still shoots these groups after already having 4,000 rounds down it. its free floated and the construction is very solid. It will eat anything you feed it and crap out clover sized groups. I have used steel core, M855, M193, Russian, anything you can think of. No problems. The more I meet fellow shooters, the more I see expensive equipment fanboys that cant shoot worth the beans (as a matter of fact, I ran into someone like that today at the range). Bottom line is, as the old adage goes, "Its not the plane, its the pilot". If you get a Stag, you will be extremely happy with it. Save the rest of the money to master your weapon and embarrass the guy shooting the BCM.

ARfiend
04-09-2011, 10:10 PM
My newest is the Model 8. Pretty nice to have that gas piston, shoot all day and the bolt stays really cool and clean. Cuts down on clean time tremendously. Awesome.

supersonic
04-09-2011, 10:16 PM
Ok, here is my experience with a stag. I own a stag 2T and I FREEKING LOVE IT!!! I have ran it through a couple of carbine clinics where I was running 600 +/- a day and I did not have one single malfunction. The only problems I had with it was ME not seating the magazine properly. It was not the rifles fault. Just keep it wet and it will love you (just like every other AR out there). Now, let me get to accuracy. I have no problem shooting 1 M.O.A. with this rifle and 55gr American eagle, brown bear, and tula ammo. At 25 yards, I was shooting in a .25" circle. At 100 yards 1 inch groups with a stock single stage trigger. I could just imagine what it would do with match ammo. It still shoots these groups after already having 4,000 rounds down it. its free floated and the construction is very solid. It will eat anything you feed it and crap out clover sized groups. I have used steel core, M855, M193, Russian, anything you can think of. No problems. The more I meet fellow shooters, the more I see expensive equipment fanboys that cant shoot worth the beans (as a matter of fact, I ran into someone like that today at the range). Bottom line is, as the old adage goes, "Its not the plane, its the pilot". If you get a Stag, you will be extremely happy with it. Save the rest of the money to master your weapon and embarrass the guy shooting the BCM.

Which is why I can't wait for "arkindomino" to come back and give us a scrap of factual data that will lead us to conclude that "Stag Sucks." He alleges that "many people agree with him,":rolleyes: but says that he 'will NOT give us the [skinny] because we need to learn how to properly search for it ourselves.':rolleyes: - (that's one of the most ridiculous & laughable reasons for not supporting an opinion I've ever heard). Well, my search efforts turned up NADA, but after checking some of his post history, all I can find (so far) is that he tries to make it into as many Stag-related threads as possible to bash them. I think it was either an isolated incident and/or a personal issue. Still waiting, nevertheless! ;)

Average Joe American
04-09-2011, 10:40 PM
Fact = Stag Arms makes mid tier AR's. Stag is owned by Mark Malkowski who is the son of the founder of Continental Machine & Tool who has been making AR/M16 parts since the Vietnam war. Stag offers a lifetime warranty and left handed receivers which is what sets them apart from all the other mid tier makers.

There is nothing wrong with that as long as you know 100% that you WANT a mid tier rifle and to save a few bucks if you are on a tight budget and you are not hard core. The problem is when noobs want top tier features and think they are getting them in a Stag when they are not. If they just did a little searching they would know that a few hundred bucks more could get them a top tier featured AR like a BCM, Spikes, Daniel Defense and maybe even a Colt? just to name a few?

The beautiful thing about Stag Arms AR's is that they are one of the only mid tier companies that I know of that offers a lifetime warranty to offset the lack of 4150 vanadium steel, 1/7 twist, M4 feed ramps and "individual" HPT & MPI which is what drives the price up on top tier guns. Remove those features and the AR technically should not cost as much because it lacks expensive features.

If you dont plan on subjecting your rifle to combat conditions such as in Iraq/Afghanistan (alot of folks need a reality check lol) or hard core use in carbine courses or competitions then the casual shooter will be served just fine with a Stag. Stag knows there is a huge market for the low speed low drag shooter so they dont add vanadium (that resists heat from select fire). They use rifle feed ramps since Stag guns have a slower semiauto cyclic rate of fire than a select fire M4 so M4 feed ramps are not needed. They use 1/9 twist barrels...that I dont know why they do but it stabilizes cheap/lighter ammo just fine. They batch test their parts to save money to the end user and back it up with a lifetime warranty.

If you fall in the hard core category = buy top tier, plain and simple.

I am not hard core so I am GTG with my Stag.

glock7
04-09-2011, 10:46 PM
Stag sucks.





































And no I won't explain why because I've already done so on many different occasions. You can see all of those posts and others that agree with me if you use the search button. For f**k sake there's a even a custom google search set up for calguns. Come on guys, get with the program and stop creating unnecessary threads. Buy a BCM because the quality is beyond amazing with the near same price of a POS stag.

^needs fiber in his diet. the guys on arf.com are kittens compared to the m4carbine.net guys....stag is fine.

stitchnicklas
04-09-2011, 10:52 PM
i have a stag 3h upper matched with a jd machine lower,i have never had a single problem or issue with the stag.i am at 2500rds of various 5.56 down the barrel and love the gun.no issues using c-product mags,pmags,or tangodown mags...
furthest i have had opportunity to shoot it was 276yds and was hitting gongs 10 for 10 consistently that were 1 1/2ft dia.
















for the bcm fanboys.........get a life and stop hating on stag,all you do with your hate is earn ulcers and ibs.....:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

Average Joe American
04-09-2011, 10:58 PM
My newest is the Model 8. Pretty nice to have that gas piston, shoot all day and the bolt stays really cool and clean. Cuts down on clean time tremendously. Awesome.

Plus it doesnt burn off the oil on the BCG. No need to go back an re-oil the BCG when the gas rings dry up (which often stops a d.i. in my personal experience) because the M8 doesnt have gas rings on the bolt.

Great gun!!! (I have one too)










Uh oh I here more haters coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here come the piston AR haters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

themailman
04-09-2011, 11:04 PM
Save the rest of the money to master your weapon and embarrass the guy shooting the BCM.

This statement is not only uneducated but also asinine as well. A complete BCM costs nearly the same as a Stag. In what way have you now embarrassed me? I believe you only embarrassed yourself by making stupid statements.

As far as Stag goes, Ive never seen a documented problem.

AeroEngi
04-09-2011, 11:05 PM
Well said mail man!

themailman
04-09-2011, 11:13 PM
i have a stag flattop 16" upper w/ m4 feedramps and i love it.
i dropped in a titanium/nitride BCG from DPMS and it will eat any kind of ammo ill run through it.
the only thing i would say is, make sure the A2 flash hider that comes on your gun/upper is tight. mine came and was falling off after a few mags

Damn. Do you have any pics of that?

map
04-09-2011, 11:45 PM
Thanks again for the feedback. I'm very happy with my 2HT. I ask because I saw a thread with a couple folks bashing stag. Piqued my interest so I figured I'd poke around for some feedback.

Thanks again all.

Tunis
04-10-2011, 6:12 AM
Stag Arms is manufactured by CMT (Continental Machine & Tool). CMT is a military grade AR parts manufacturer providing components to many leading AR-15 platform rifle brands and has produced many of the parts used in US Military weapons. Stag Arms is the most well known user of CMT parts. Colt, Bushmaster, RRA and S&W are also customers as well. So...Stag Arms is GTG! :thumbsup:

chesterthehero
04-10-2011, 7:47 AM
ive had zero issues with either of my stag builds.. after thousands of rounds ive yet to have an issue that wasnt mag related...

Fate
04-10-2011, 9:09 AM
My Stag carbine has easily over 4k rounds though it. I've treated her rough. Desert, snow, mountains, range. No real cleaning beyond occasional wiping of the grime, maybe a quick boresnake, and only lubing it every couple of times to the range. I've NEVER had a FTE or FTF or stoppage of any kind.

Stag is good to go.

dieselpower
04-10-2011, 10:35 AM
@ Average Joe American, Thanks for your input. I just want to correct your terminology with the statements after the word "fact". What you are speaking of is salesman BS and Internet myth. It has no basis in Fact.

I am going to once again beat this to death, since its still a common Internet myth we all need to fight against. (and because its Sunday and I am bored...LOL)

There is nothing "mid tier " about Stag.
1) The price is the same as most other AR15 manufactures.
2) The quality is the same as other AR15 manufactures.
3) The warranty is ABOVE what is offered by other AR15 manufactures.
4) Some AR15 manufactures offer extreme high end rifles for Competition. Those are not normal AR15s. They cost a lot more for those features. LaRue Stealth, Armalite SPR...


The term "mid tier" is a sales tactic term used to sell a product. It has zero to do with Stag other than people wanting to believe it does. You get no more out of another AR15. This tier stuff is a lie generated by salesman who when pressed into reality have no data to back up their claims. It was then adopted by fan-boys who know how to make cool and official looking charts...which were DESIGNED to prove the lie.

There are crappy AR15s. They have known flaws in relation to proper firearms manufacturing. Those flaws are;
1) Painted parts, not anodized parts
2) Substandard metal used when NORMAL usage requires higher grade
3) Improper tooling as seen in non-standard sized holes.
4) Non-standard parts, used in the non-standard holes.
5) Poor QA as seen in broken products shipped to retailers, anyone looking in the box can see the item is broke...so no one at the factory is looking at what is being placed in the box.

Salesman like to point at #2 and expand that to include abnormal use. They then make up "facts" to back up the abnormal use. They then trick fan-boys into thinking this abnormal use is common and there is a standard which solves this common problem. Its all BS. We are talking about the barrel Steel here. There is no data to back up a salesman's BS saying that 4140 is INFERIOR to 4150CMV. In fact as seen by US Military destructive testing and usage, 4150CMV offers NOTHING over the industry standard of 4140 weapons grade steel for semi-auto firearms. Most weapons have been and are still made using 4140. AK47s, Sigs, HKs, Beretta all make firearm barrels from 4140...its the industry STANDARD. These 4140 barrels are even in full auto firearms and no issues have been seen. The 4150CMV is more of an extreme "just in case" theory since some AR15s where going to be used as suppressive fire machine guns. In fact real world usage now sees 4150CMV could be a problem when used in suppressive fire machine guns. Read on...

The US military made a mil-spec detailing who, what, where, when and how 4150CMV is manufactured and tested. The US Military still authorizes and uses firearms that do not use 4150CMV. The Mil-spec is Mil-B-11595E. Its a standard a manufacture must follow if they are offering 4150CMV...it is not a standard, rule, law or requirement for barrels...thats the lie. The Military has NEVER, said all machine guns or all select fire guns, or all AR15s will use Mil-B-11595E. What they said was if you are going to offer 4150CMV it must be made in accordance with Mil-B-11595E.

Twist rate. 1:7, 1:8, 1:9, 1:11. They all have their place. No twist is better than the other without adding a requirement of length of projectile, use and common supply. The only time you need a 1:7 twist is if you plan on killing a human past 500 yards, and fire tracer bullets, and equip 100,000 troops. 1:8 will be more accurate, 1:9 will last longer in a semi-automatic, 1:11 will be best with the shortest projectiles and allows the bullet to tumble causing more damage on impact with soft tissue at close range. And everything I just said can be debated till the end of the world without a right answer being found. What I think is funny is I hear LEO and "experts" tell me they will not trust a 1:9 with their life. That tells me they have no idea what a twist rate is.... I wouldn't trust my life to 87 unleaded. This is what grandpa says cuz he has no idea what an engine does or how it works or what unleaded gas is.

Bolt testing. No one has ever proved a Bolt that was tested was better than a bolt that was not. In fact a bolt what has marks indicating it was tested only offers the user the peace of mind over the one that was not tested. Manufacturing procedures at a quality manufacture already make sure the bolt is manufactured to a high standard. The mark of that quality means nothing. The military uses unmarked bolts. The Manufactures who supply to the Military use the same company Stag uses for Bolts...CMT. Its the process and procedures in the manufacture of the Bolt..not what is stamped on the side that matters.

Shot-peening metal. Long time ago the way to increase the strength of a firearm steel part was to shot-peen it. The basic process fires small beads of metal at the sides of a part and the constant hammering from those beads adds strength to the part. (there is more to it, but thats it in a nutshell) Nowadays the part itself is made from a metal that exceeds the strength requirement for its use. So instead of asking, "Is the part shot-peened?" You should be asking, "Why the hell are you still using metal that requires shot peening to meet the basic strength requirement???" The metals in question are 8620, 9310 and Carpenter 158. Carpenter 158 is mil-spec, I am told 9310 is better than carpenter 158, but requires shot-peening to meet Mil-spec. In any case why require your manufacture add an extra step to meet a standard requirement? Isn't it better to simply use a metal that meets the requirement without that extra step??? Its salesman BS..its like asking for your Glock to be coated with a rust inhibitor. The standard Glock will not rust...why are you telling me yours needs an extra step to meet the standards Glocks already meet?

If you take 100 "Top Tier" AR15s and 100 Stag AR15s you will have nearly the same failure rates in all parts. They will operate the same. The minor differences are not what the salesman want you to think they are.

The salesman and fan-boys want you to think the minor BS is a major concern when in truth its mall-ninja stupid to worry about them. Even Law Enforcement Agencies have been conned by these salesmen. People want to think they have the best equipment money can buy. Salesman know this, so they sell them the "idea". The "idea" has nothing to do with reality, but it puts the users into a superior state of mind. It gives the common product a sales point to separate it from the pack of others...even if its a myth.

supersonic
04-10-2011, 11:36 AM
^^Some pretty damn accurate info there. You have done your homework. That is to be commended. I wouldn't have that kind of patience to type out a post that huge, so bravo to you. And something that I am in complete agreement with you over is this "AR-15 Tier" BS. It's a made-up term for, you got it, fanboys. I would place a large wager on the probability that all the "chart" & "tier" crap was non-existent before the black rifle market started to become so over-saturated with a new "manufacturer" rearing its head every few months (when the reality of it is that 99% of these "new" "manufacturers" use outside vendors that have been making the same major rifle components for decades).

dieselpower
04-10-2011, 11:44 AM
I could have gone much further in my post. I didnt go into NDI testing, DI testing, failure history, failure reporting QDRs...lol

That was all from the top of my head. I would need several bored Sundays for a whole post... I just manufactured a new Camelbak system for myself. I am heading up to Cherry Creek to test it...thats as soon as the wife gets back with my truck...

t0kie
04-10-2011, 11:51 AM
I have one & no problem at all. GTG.
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CK_32
04-10-2011, 11:59 AM
They work. Enough said.

Their logo just kills it for ALOT of people.

supersonic
04-10-2011, 1:24 PM
Their logo just kills it for ALOT of people.

Thereby proving what that "LOT" of people know about & value in a rifle.;)

SPR18
04-10-2011, 1:40 PM
Stag is a quality manufacture. No more or less problem with a Stag than any other manufacture. Good customer service, good warranty on factory made firearms, solid company that isn't going anywhere.

maybe...people don't like them bcz they are not mil spec but they are good rifle, stag = cmt to me:D

supersonic
04-10-2011, 1:54 PM
maybe...people don't like them bcz they are not mil spec but they are good rifle, stag = cmt to me:D

I should have included the "other" ridiculous & misused term "mil-spec" with "Tier" and "Chart.":rolleyes:

Average Joe American
04-10-2011, 2:11 PM
@ Average Joe American, Thanks for your input. I just want to correct your terminology with the statements after the word "fact". What you are speaking of is salesman BS and Internet myth. It has no basis in Fact.


Well said sir. I am not a fan of the whole tier/chart myself. But I used that terminology to point out that Stag rifles cost a few bucks less than say a Colt because of the lack of individual testing & inspection and a few less expensive parts and a few less features in general.

I am in agreement that a well made gun will run just as good as a really well made gun. Its what you put it through that will make the true difference and the fact is most casual shooters (and internet commando's lol) will never be able to pull the trigger fast enough on a semi-auto AR to see the benefits of 4150CMV steel or M4 feed ramps or shot peened bolts or individual HPT/MPI.

You should make an "anti-chart" of some type for all of us anti-chart believes to reference when this kind of topic comes up.:D

1forall
04-10-2011, 2:24 PM
maybe...people don't like them bcz they are not mil spec but they are good rifle, stag = cmt to me:D

"...not mil spec..."? Some of these post are killing me right now, too much brain vomiting.

"Cause only a fool lean upon his own misunderstanding", Bob Marley.

supersonic
04-10-2011, 3:11 PM
"...not mil spec..."? Some of these post are killing me right now, too much brain vomiting.

"Cause only a fool lean upon his own misunderstanding", Bob Marley.

Outside the actual military, the ever-catchy "mil-spec" is nothing more than a marketing/sales term aimed directly at the ill-informed (i.e. ignorant) firearms consumer.

eman39
04-10-2011, 3:26 PM
I Love my stag! I have the 14.5 SBR upper with pinned flash hider. Specs on the upper is as follows:
- 4150 steel barrel, Chrome Lined
- 5.56 NATO Chamber
- 1/7 Twist rifling
- M4 feed ramps
- MP tested and marked Bolt & Barrel
- M-16 Bolt Carrier

17+1
04-10-2011, 4:00 PM
The wifey has a Stag Medcon 1 in 9, 20", A4 upper sitting on a Sun Devil lower. Upper has a turned small diameter front post with front sight base tapped through and locked from bottom with a set screw. Also, .046 rear aperture, trigger modifications, etc.

Shoots 1.5 minute groups with my SMK handloads. That's without a free floating barrel or optics...these guns can shoot. You will not be disappointed.

It's had issues with some handloads of mine before. That was from me not bumping the shoulder back far enough though, not because the rifle is low quality.

Average Joe American
04-10-2011, 7:41 PM
I Love my stag! I have the 14.5 SBR upper with pinned flash hider. Specs on the upper is as follows:
- 4150 steel barrel, Chrome Lined
- 5.56 NATO Chamber
- 1/7 Twist rifling
- M4 feed ramps
- MP tested and marked Bolt & Barrel
- M-16 Bolt Carrier

Sounds like a great gun. I didnt know Stag offered those features? How much did you pay for it and where can I get one like it?

calishine
04-10-2011, 9:25 PM
http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?cPath=14_42&products_id=352

kroniclove
04-10-2011, 9:41 PM
Stag Arm 2HT. GTG. No complaints whatsoever

eman39
04-11-2011, 3:43 AM
Sounds like a great gun. I didnt know Stag offered those features? How much did you pay for it and where can I get one like it?

PM'd you.

kazman
04-11-2011, 11:10 AM
No problems, no ftf/fte or anything with my Stag upper. I did upgrade my bolt to BCM just for the hell of it though. Nothing wrong with the old bolt.

plankowner
04-11-2011, 2:02 PM
I have one and I have not a single ftf or a single hiccup out of it ,and I plan on adding a few more in the future

maxima
04-11-2011, 2:39 PM
Stag ARs are as good as any ARs from reputable AR manufactures and their CS is top notch as well. The price is also very competitive from quite a few dealers(the price on Stag website are MSRP).

killshot44
04-11-2011, 3:10 PM
What's not to like about the roll mark?
http://www.storybookbucks.com/red_deer/images/red_deer_gun.jpg
Red Stags in the Caucasus reach over 500lbs, or about the weight of two BCM fanboy's girlfriends....:43:

pyro3k2
04-11-2011, 3:47 PM
Oah for ****'s sake is the search button not working now? and whats everyones fixation on stag? even if we go by that totally retarded chart DPMS is dead last in quality and it's more expensive than stag, why the **** are we ALWAYS talking about stag. This must me one of the most ingenious marketing ploys ever, mention one bad thing about them on a gun forum and have all the stag owners rush to there defense...sales will go up. Also whats with the fixation of everything being ****ing mil-spec, when I was in the military and deployed we looked at the commercial market and wanted some of those items to replace some of our mil-spec gear becasue (drum roll please) NOT EVERYTHING MIL-SPEC IS GOOD! Anyone who was ever in the military at any time peroid can tell you how good their mil-spec gear was. Unless you were in some special forces unit, your gear was "ok" at best. :rant:

the_t0ny
04-11-2011, 3:56 PM
I Love my stag! I have the 14.5 SBR upper with pinned flash hider. Specs on the upper is as follows:
- 4150 steel barrel, Chrome Lined
- 5.56 NATO Chamber
- 1/7 Twist rifling
- M4 feed ramps
- MP tested and marked Bolt & Barrel
- M-16 Bolt Carrier
Where did you pick it up from? Or did you order directly from stag?

1forall
04-11-2011, 4:09 PM
Oah for ****'s sake is the search button not working now? and whats everyones fixation on stag? even if we go by that totally retarded chart DPMS is dead last in quality and it's more expensive than stag, why the **** are we ALWAYS talking about stag. This must me one of the most ingenious marketing ploys ever, mention one bad thing about them on a gun forum and have all the stag owners rush to there defense...sales will go up. Also whats with the fixation of everything being ****ing mil-spec, when I was in the military and deployed we looked at the commercial market and wanted some of those items to replace some of our mil-spec gear becasue (drum roll please) NOT EVERYTHING MIL-SPEC IS GOOD! Anyone who was ever in the military at any time peroid can tell you how good their mil-spec gear was. Unless you were in some special forces unit, your gear was "ok" at best. :rant:


Calm down...don't blow a blood vessel. The OP asked a few questions and others gave some feedback. What's the big deal?

supersonic
04-12-2011, 7:12 AM
Well, like I pretty much knew, "arkinDomino" never came back to back those silly words up.

ArkinDomino
04-12-2011, 7:48 AM
My original reply boiled down to pretty much "use the search button". I'm not going to do it for you buddy. Seriously its not hard, this topic has come up A LOT. And I do have fun stirring things up for all the people who secretly regret their stag purchase and vigorously defend it to compensate. . Its all out there, just use the search button. :)

Hornet_RN
04-12-2011, 7:57 AM
stags are good guns...rarely ever jam up.

i'm a hobbyist shooter and i use it for multigun competitions and they work just fine. a good starter AR-15!

then later, you should get an LWRC gas piston AR-15!!!

(i have yet to take it hunting though, but i don't think park rangers would like me bringing a black rifle in the woods!)

mongosse
04-12-2011, 8:29 AM
i have a stag model 8 and really enjoy it! over 2k rounds through it any only had 2 jams but that was crappy ammo. wolf ammo with the lacquer coating, got stuck twice because the extractor ripped off the steel

supersonic
04-12-2011, 9:26 AM
My original reply boiled down to pretty much "use the search button". I'm not going to do it for you buddy. Seriously its not hard, this topic has come up A LOT. And I do have fun stirring things up for all the people who secretly regret their stag purchase and vigorously defend it to compensate. . Its all out there, just use the search button. :)

There you go right there. Excuses, excuses. If you are going to post something like "xxx SUCKS," back it up or your remark is meaningless to anyone but you. I did happen to "search," and it just isn't there. Like I said previously, my
guess is that it is a personal issue. BTW, you can do a "search" on "xxxx problems/issues" and find just as many posts about other manufacturers other than Stag. And Stag reliability issues are few and far between (as are almost all other good, solid brands). I am in no way a "fanboy" of any type (...ok, maybe for 1911's), and I'm not here to "defend" one company over another. "Stag SUCKS" is such an ignorant thing to post.

gmcal
04-12-2011, 9:40 AM
From my own observations in both the real world and the internet, the standard (righty) stags are fine but the lefty ones have higher than normal problems.

gmcal
04-12-2011, 9:44 AM
What's not to like about the roll mark?
http://www.storybookbucks.com/red_deer/images/red_deer_gun.jpg
Red Stags in the Caucasus reach over 500lbs, or about the weight of two BCM fanboy's girlfriends....:43:

or 1 stag fanboys mom :p

jonyg
04-12-2011, 9:57 AM
Oah for ****'s sake is the search button not working now? and whats everyones fixation on stag? even if we go by that totally retarded chart DPMS is dead last in quality and it's more expensive than stag, why the **** are we ALWAYS talking about stag.

Hey! No smacking on DPMS! :D
hahahah

Stag arms is great. If you don't like it, I'll gladly take it off your hands.

17+1
04-12-2011, 10:06 AM
Oah for ****'s sake is the search button not working now? and whats everyones fixation on stag? even if we go by that totally retarded chart DPMS is dead last in quality and it's more expensive than stag, why the **** are we ALWAYS talking about stag. This must me one of the most ingenious marketing ploys ever, mention one bad thing about them on a gun forum and have all the stag owners rush to there defense...sales will go up. Also whats with the fixation of everything being ****ing mil-spec, when I was in the military and deployed we looked at the commercial market and wanted some of those items to replace some of our mil-spec gear becasue (drum roll please) NOT EVERYTHING MIL-SPEC IS GOOD! Anyone who was ever in the military at any time peroid can tell you how good their mil-spec gear was. Unless you were in some special forces unit, your gear was "ok" at best. :rant:

We have a Stag upper, not because we had to have it for the name, but because we found it on these classifieds for sale and it was the desired configuration at the right price. It has worked well for us so that's what I reported. Don't really have loyalty to them. Maybe they have put out bad product but ours has been fine.

:confused:

lumpia
04-12-2011, 11:16 AM
I have no experience with their complete rifles, but I do have 2 Stag lowers with consecutive serial numbers. Both of them have tight magwells and slightly oversized FCG pin holes. One has since been relegated to .22 upper duty for my daughter and the other is sitting in the safe waiting for me to decide what to do with her, prob going the 9mm route.

My go-to carbines are 2 BCM 16" uppers on CMMG lowers and I just put in an order for a Noveske. These are the guns I have taken to classes with me and shot a few matches with. I am not a kool-aid drinker but I do need my tools to do what they are supposed to.

dieselpower
04-12-2011, 12:33 PM
I have no experience with their complete rifles, but I do have 2 Stag lowers with consecutive serial numbers. Both of them have tight magwells and slightly oversized FCG pin holes. One has since been relegated to .22 upper duty for my daughter and the other is sitting in the safe waiting for me to decide what to do with her, prob going the 9mm route.

My go-to carbines are 2 BCM 16" uppers on CMMG lowers and I just put in an order for a Noveske. These are the guns I have taken to classes with me and shot a few matches with. I am not a kool-aid drinker but I do need my tools to do what they are supposed to.

I'm sorry I find this hard to believe since Stag offer a 100% warranty on assembled Firearms including lower receivers without uppers for manufactured defects. If you own TWO Stag factory made lowers with oversized holes, they would pay you to return them to investigate how this left the factory. I know this because when I called to ask about a blem they freaked and requested I send it back overnight express to investigate how this left the factory. They told my FFL (who was on the phone ordering more gear) to bend over backwards for me and they would cover any and all cost no questions asked.

This is the same response you will get from BCM, Armalite, LaRue and some others. You will not get this from some of the other big companies (Colt).

I have read dozens of these reported flaws from BCM owners reporting problems with the BCM lowers and uppers. Every major manufacturer has these problems EVERYONE OF THEM

Your failure to properly assemble which is probably why you are stuck with them is not Stags fault. Don't blame Stag for your mistakes.

I agree with 44. Lefty Stags are troublesome. You would like just flipping all the items around would be enough. Its not. there are aspects to the cycling BCG which cause problems for left side ejection. It needs a custom touch to work right. There are other companies offering left side ejection which are better because they are totally different, not just a reversed mil-spec BCG.

StrikeIndustries
04-12-2011, 12:41 PM
Co-worker has a Stag upper and loves it, then again he's a Marine and will make anything work. :)

Seriously though I've never heard a complaint from him and or about his rifle.

Bobby Ricigliano
04-12-2011, 1:09 PM
Good or bad? Why do you feel the way you feel? What are your experiences with this brand?

Well I own two Stag rifles and they are first rate. I don't know what people who say they suck are basing their intel off of, but it sounds like a lot of FUD to me. You can buy a nice Stag with a FF rail for around a grand it really does not need any other modifications. I have used/fired/carried numerous M-16/AR variants as a Soldier and later as a LEO and my Stags feel and shoot as good as any of them IMHO.

Fate
04-12-2011, 2:51 PM
My original reply boiled down to pretty much "use the search button". I'm not going to do it for you buddy. Seriously its not hard, this topic has come up A LOT. And I do have fun stirring things up for all the people who secretly regret their stag purchase and vigorously defend it to compensate. . Its all out there, just use the search button. :)

ArkinDomino is a Stag hater maybe because he has never, ever been invited to a Stag party. Haters gonna hate. :46:

I bought my lower when it was one of the only OLLs available back in the early days of CalGuns. Grabbed my like new Stag upper for a firesale price a year before Obamamania. In fact my entire main featureless rifle (the Stag) was all bought second hand on ar15.com's EE and the trader here. I built her to treat her rough and I do. She loves it rough and yet she has NEVER quit on me. Not once.

pyro3k2
04-12-2011, 4:20 PM
Hey! No smacking on DPMS! :D
hahahah

Stag arms is great. If you don't like it, I'll gladly take it off your hands.

ok, its become a safe queen and should be in the loving hands of some one who will use it more than I, besides I was thinking about selling it to fund my RPK project.

Stag lower with color fill, stag LPK, and stag A2 buttstock with a bushmaster 24 inch predator upper sitting ontop round count is less than 75. PM me if interested.

lumpia
04-12-2011, 4:37 PM
I'm sorry I find this hard to believe since Stag offer a 100% warranty on assembled Firearms including lower receivers without uppers for manufactured defects. If you own TWO Stag factory made lowers with oversized holes, they would pay you to return them to investigate how this left the factory. I know this because when I called to ask about a blem they freaked and requested I send it back overnight express to investigate how this left the factory. They told my FFL (who was on the phone ordering more gear) to bend over backwards for me and they would cover any and all cost no questions asked.

This is the same response you will get from BCM, Armalite, LaRue and some others. You will not get this from some of the other big companies (Colt).

I have read dozens of these reported flaws from BCM owners reporting problems with the BCM lowers and uppers. Every major manufacturer has these problems EVERYONE OF THEM

Your failure to properly assemble which is probably why you are stuck with them is not Stags fault. Don't blame Stag for your mistakes.



You're right. In Stag's defense, I never attempted to contact them and see what they can do for me. The serials are 37xxx and I've had them for more than a few years, so I'm not sure if they'll be able to do anything for me now. From what I've read, they do have excellent customer service. I'm not too concerned about it at this time, as they serve their roles right now quite well.

I never said other manufacturers do not have their problems. I merely stated my experience with the 2 Stag lowers I have. The OP never asked about experiences with BCM or CMMG or anyone else, so I didn't offer any. And please don't call into question my ability to build a lower, it's really not needed. Apparently your dog in this fight is way bigger than mine.

dieselpower
04-12-2011, 5:07 PM
You're right. In Stag's defense, I never attempted to contact them and see what they can do for me. The serials are 37xxx and I've had them for more than a few years, so I'm not sure if they'll be able to do anything for me now. From what I've read, they do have excellent customer service. I'm not too concerned about it at this time, as they serve their roles right now quite well.

I never said other manufacturers do not have their problems. I merely stated my experience with the 2 Stag lowers I have. The OP never asked about experiences with BCM or CMMG or anyone else, so I didn't offer any. And please don't call into question my ability to build a lower, it's really not needed. Apparently your dog in this fight is way bigger than mine.

I understand, but your initial post leads a person to believe Stag is not a reputable company and "if you need your "tool" to work right, look somewhere else."

I was pointing out the fallacy in your logic.

I will do it again...

Why would you spend nearly $700 ($325 x 2 + fees + Tax) on equipment that doesn't work right, and NOT get it fixed ASAP? I will concede you did not improperly assemble the lowers, but what you did was buy lowers that were bad and did nothing about it.

Agreed this OP was asking for your experience, but to blame Stag and hold Stag responsible is flawed logic.

Its not like you can't see the pin holes are too large. Any person looking at a lower even with no knowledge of the firearm can see over sized pin holes. Pins falling out of them or walking out means HUGE holes. Even 25 year old lowers with elongated holes (where you can see the other side) hold the pins in place. The pins are not held in my the force of the walls or the size of the holes. Its in the spring tension and J-hook inside the hammer that holds the pins in place. You can literally hold a lower up to the sun and see light shining from the FCG pin holes and NOT have the pins walk out.

My M16A1 was like this in the service. As long as I changed the LPK on a regular schedule, it was fine. I guess nowadays a civilian can buy KNS pins. Still to buy TWO Lowers with this condition and do nothing about it...:rolleyes:

Arnelcheeze
04-12-2011, 8:39 PM
Got a Stag model 8, no issues at all.

pennywize
04-12-2011, 9:29 PM
a couple years ago i bought a complete assembled stag 1h upper. put about 1500 rounds through it since then. during routine maintenance and cleaning last month i discovered that the barrel and barrel nut were loose. pulled the front sight and gas tube and discovered that the barrel nut was only barely hand tight. the gas tube had been the only thing keeping it from coming off all the way. not a huge deal, things happen during assembly. tightened it up and no problems since. im not sure how long the barrel had been loose. i never once had a failure to feed, fire or eject any brand or type of ammunition.
personal friends of mine also use stag and have zero problems.
i plan on buying another stag upper for my current spare lower

lumpia
04-13-2011, 1:48 AM
I understand, but your initial post leads a person to believe Stag is not a reputable company and "if you need your "tool" to work right, look somewhere else."

I was pointing out the fallacy in your logic.

I will do it again...

Why would you spend nearly $700 ($325 x 2 + fees + Tax) on equipment that doesn't work right, and NOT get it fixed ASAP? I will concede you did not improperly assemble the lowers, but what you did was buy lowers that were bad and did nothing about it.

Agreed this OP was asking for your experience, but to blame Stag and hold Stag responsible is flawed logic.

Its not like you can't see the pin holes are too large. Any person looking at a lower even with no knowledge of the firearm can see over sized pin holes. Pins falling out of them or walking out means HUGE holes. Even 25 year old lowers with elongated holes (where you can see the other side) hold the pins in place. The pins are not held in my the force of the walls or the size of the holes. Its in the spring tension and J-hook inside the hammer that holds the pins in place. You can literally hold a lower up to the sun and see light shining from the FCG pin holes and NOT have the pins walk out.

My M16A1 was like this in the service. As long as I changed the LPK on a regular schedule, it was fine. I guess nowadays a civilian can buy KNS pins. Still to buy TWO Lowers with this condition and do nothing about it...:rolleyes:


diesel, with all due respect bud, you're looking way too much into this. I never said that my pins were walking out, I never said my pins fell out, and I never said they don't work right. I never blamed Stag for anything, and I never held Stag responsible for anything. I simply stated that my FCG holes were slightly oversized and that my magwells are tight. I even went so far as to say that they're serving their current roles well. But if you've gathered everything that you've said from my original 2 statements, then I apologize.

And I never once inferred to "look elsewhere" regarding my tools not working right. My Stag magwells are tight. Some lowers are tighter than others. That's a fact. They fit my Pmags and Black Dog Machine Mags fine, but do not fit all of my USGI 30s without some effort. My primary training and match mags are my USGI, so I use different lowers.

diesel, you can continue to assume what you'd like from my posts. The OP asked a question and I gave an answer. If he/she would like to know more about my experiences, he can ask or PM me. Likewise, if you'd like to continue discussing Stag this and Stag that, you can PM me also. Let's not clutter up his thread any more than we already have.

racky
04-13-2011, 3:00 AM
stag is GTG. proper inspections and maintenance will extend the life and reliability of any upper.

BCM fanboys are just like GLOCKTARDS http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a17/rackycurva/interwebs/headshot.gif

jermzzzzzzz
04-13-2011, 9:32 AM
stag is GTG. proper inspections and maintenance will extend the life and reliability of any upper.

BCM fanboys are just like GLOCKTARDS http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a17/rackycurva/interwebs/headshot.gif

LOL!!!!!! +1

evidens83
04-13-2011, 9:56 AM
BCM fanboys are just like GLOCKTARDS

Why is it that Stag fanboys always have to bring BCM into the mix? This discussion was about Stag was it not? LOL goes to show you some people's inadequacies on their own AR that they have to resort to berate others lol :rolleyes:

jermzzzzzzz
04-13-2011, 10:13 AM
My M4 owns all! It has burst!

luckystrike
04-13-2011, 10:19 AM
Stag sucks




And no I won't explain why because I've already done so on many different occasions. You can see all of those posts and others that agree with me if you use the search button. For f**k sake there's a even a custom google search set up for calguns. Come on guys, get with the program and stop creating unnecessary threads. Buy a BCM because the quality is beyond amazing with the near same price of a POS stag.

hey bcm fanboy, U mad?

dieselpower
04-13-2011, 10:20 AM
Why is it that Stag fanboys always have to bring BCM into the mix? This discussion was about Stag was it not? LOL goes to show you some people's inadequacies on their own AR that they have to resort to berate others lol :rolleyes:

It’s the same reason as a 911 fan or a glock fan flames the other.

Guys who say Stag sucks offer BCM as better.
Guys who say Stag is ok get tired of BCM fanboys flaming Stag

Here’s the issue. I have never met a Stag fanboy who flames BCM...I am sure that person exist somewhere...just not a common person to find.

There are THOUSANDS of BCM fanboys who flame Stag. 99% of them do it based on a sales pitch they have eaten hook, line and sinker.

I like BCM, great stuff. I sometimes don’t offer it as a gear selection to people asking because it’s getting to be a fanboy company. You start seeing fanboy companies change direction at a certain point. Magpul is a good example of that. When the commercialization of a name brand outgrows the quality of the product, the quality of the product starts to become second fiddle to the commercialization of the name brand. When you see a Company offer FAKE gear that looks exactly like their real gear (Airsoft clones) it’s time to start rethinking that as a gear choice. They COULD start to care more about $$$ then quality. BCM is starting down that road now.... "Training aids" are what they are calling the gear.

Right now I have zero against BCM. I no longer buy Magpul because many products that legally bear the Magpul name are 100% fakes . It takes an EXPERT looking at the two gear options side by side to tell what is real and what is fake. I cannot take that risk. Many of us have been burned by that. No one can be an expert on every piece of gear. Magpuls fanboy commercialization has destroyed the confidence quality of the product.

I was just recently burned by a gun store in Ventura. I hope they didn’t know what they did to me. I hope they themselves where burned by a distributor. IDK. Will I go back to the store...maybe...most likely not. I have Uncle Paul’s and they have never burned me and I have bought several guns and items from them. The other store burned me on the first purchase.

That is why Stag fanboys add "IBTBCMFB" to a post (In Before The BCM Fanboys). They know what is coming from past experiences.

Bobby Hated
04-13-2011, 12:14 PM
lets all wear blue and red bandanas and beat each other into comas over stag v. bcm?

i just got a bcm upper off a calgunner cause it was a good deal. im gonna put it on a stag lower, rra internals, with a geisselle 3gun trig, and a magpul acs.

that should give all of you something to hate on me for. they dont call me bobby hated for nothing.

jermzzzzzzz
04-13-2011, 12:50 PM
I HATE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

pyro3k2
04-13-2011, 3:40 PM
lets all wear blue and red bandanas and beat each other into comas over stag v. bcm?

i just got a bcm upper off a calgunner cause it was a good deal. im gonna put it on a stag lower, rra internals, with a geisselle 3gun trig, and a magpul acs.

that should give all of you something to hate on me for. they dont call me bobby hated for nothing.

I think they would hate you even more if you put a stag upper on a BCM lower, just saying.

dieselpower
04-13-2011, 3:41 PM
I think they would hate you even more if you put a stag upper on a BCM lower, just saying.

oh that would be such an epic picture to have...LOL

pyro3k2
04-13-2011, 3:44 PM
oh that would be such an epic picture to have...LOL

Epic would be if it was a left handed stag upper so every one could see the BCM logo :43:

dieselpower
04-13-2011, 3:48 PM
Epic would be if it was a left handed stag upper so every one could see the BCM logo :43:

:43::43::D

Fate
04-13-2011, 5:41 PM
I'll bet 99% of the Stag hate stems from their crappy logo.

As a designer, I despise the stag head. It's pretty lame. But I don't really care when it just flat out works.

Maybe if the stag logo was something closer to this one below, the hate might not be so bad (ok, don't switch the hate to flavored bourbon...I don't like that stuff either)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_gLJopL2jr3A/Sac1NzAlQYI/AAAAAAAAAEg/nD6Htps2opY/s400/Red+Stag+2.jpg

On the other hand, the Colt pony logo sucks too.

Bobby Hated
04-13-2011, 6:33 PM
if stupid bcm shipped lowers to shops that would be great. too bad heyre so arrogant they wont supply shopsbwit anything.

i really hate that their site says, these sell out fast so get while you can blah blah blah. and everyting is always outta stock.

if youre so damn popular why dont you expand your capacity? trying to justify their high prices by withholding supply. sorry im not that stupid. the durkhas taught us that one in the 70's.

and no i dont give a sh*t what pat thinks either.

AeroEngi
04-13-2011, 6:38 PM
if stupid bcm shipped lowers to shops that would be great. too bad heyre so arrogant they wont supply shopsbwit anything.

i really hate that their site says, these sell out fast so get while you can blah blah blah. and everyting is always outta stock.

if youre so damn popular why dont you expand your capacity? trying to justify their high prices by withholding supply. sorry im not that stupid. the durkhas taught us that one in the 70's.

and no i dont give a sh*t what pat thinks either.

High prices? You can get a BCM upper for about the same price as a Stag upper.

And it's not only BCM that is out of stock on a lot of stuff, a lot of other manufacturers are out of stock as well. Look at Daniel Defense...

jonnyt16
04-13-2011, 7:49 PM
I'll bet 99% of the Stag hate stems from their crappy logo....As a designer, I despise the stag head. It's pretty lame. But I don't really care when it just flat out works...the Colt pony logo sucks too.
Thats funny, cuz to be honest...I think Stag and Colt have the best looking logos! I like Bushmaster too.

Rock_Islander
04-13-2011, 8:47 PM
Stag is a quality manufacture. No more or less problem with a Stag than any other manufacture. Good customer service, good warranty on factory made firearms, solid company that isn't going anywhere.

^ what he said. rock on diesel!

evidens83
04-13-2011, 11:15 PM
if stupid bcm shipped lowers to shops that would be great. too bad heyre so arrogant they wont supply shopsbwit anything.

i really hate that their site says, these sell out fast so get while you can blah blah blah. and everyting is always outta stock.

if youre so damn popular why dont you expand your capacity? trying to justify their high prices by withholding supply. sorry im not that stupid. the durkhas taught us that one in the 70's.

and no i dont give a sh*t what pat thinks either.

Whats the topic of this thread again?? Oh ya....

jtzshooters
04-13-2011, 11:36 PM
I got a Stag 6.8 right when they came out & my only complaints were the lack of m4 feed ramps & the barrel threading is 1/2x36 .

ArkinDomino
04-14-2011, 12:25 AM
ArkinDomino is a Stag hater maybe because he has never, ever been invited to a Stag party. Haters gonna hate. :46:

I'm sorry but I just had to quote this because it was so out of left field it literally made me laugh out loud! :D

hey bcm fanboy, U mad?

I don't consider myself a BCM fanboy... I don't even own one yet. :) I do recommend them though, due to the incredible quality at an outstanding price point. I do however own a KAC SR-15 upper and a complete Noveske N4 carbine which have both been amazing through thousands of rounds. I can't say that about my old stag though. ::insert dramatic musical cue:: That's right you read that correctly. I've owned a stag. :eek:

Bobby Hated
04-14-2011, 5:43 AM
haha sorry for the rant. yeah every company is always outta stock on everything i guess.

back on topic. i do love stag ar's. and theyre always in stock, ship fast and are slightly less than comparable bcm uppers.

dd always has ar's on the rack at turners. i never ordered anyting from tem though so cant spak on that.

all 3 companys make solid rifles with clean machining and thorough materials.

BenL
04-14-2011, 6:50 AM
I have a Stag 2TL with ~20,000 rounds through it, and it's never had a single hiccup. It's my go-to for 3 gun competition and carbine classes. The only things I've changed were the trigger (to a RRNM trigger) and the muzzle brake (Miculek brake.) It runs 100%- no failures.

It's the one on the left, before I changed the muzzle brake.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/benlineberry/DSC_0413.jpg

Average Joe American
04-15-2011, 10:21 AM
Gotta love the infighting us firearms enthusiast do to each other. Its sucks that we have to deal with anti-gun liberals that want to take away guns in general with stupid anti-gun laws but we also have to deal with gun snobs and fanboy haters within our own firearms community. Its ridiculous.

Buy what makes you smile and what fits your intended use. Other than that I really could care less and so should every one else.

flipman416
04-16-2011, 8:59 AM
Im new here and this is my first post! I am also new to the AR-15 rifle craze lol!! I wanted to buy a stag for the price...the way I see it is this...unless your hardcore and fight terrorists in a daily basis...then yeah maybe get a higher type rifle..I personally think the Stag would be up for the job anyway...but if your me that just likes to shoot for fun..then for the price I got one hell of a good rifle...I will always buy a stag for what I use it for.

hk91666
04-16-2011, 9:18 AM
Stag is great, I own a mod 3TL and a mod 7TL. At least Stag gives a crap about us that shoot for the left side. I have 5.56mm & 6.8SPC. Their customer service is beyond compare.JMHO

hk91666
04-16-2011, 9:23 AM
Well, like I pretty much knew, "arkinDomino" never came back to back those silly words up.

He could be a mall ninja with a pink AR. Stag doesn't do PINK.

ArkinDomino
04-16-2011, 5:11 PM
He could be a mall ninja with a pink AR. Stag doesn't do PINK.

Was that your attempt at an insult? The thread has come to this guys...

IBTL.

hk91666
04-16-2011, 5:53 PM
Was that your attempt at an insult? The thread has come to this guys...

IBTL.

Not really its about as good as Stag Sux

ArkinDomino
04-16-2011, 5:59 PM
Not really its about as good as Stag Sux

Not the same purpose. I was merely stating a fact. :43:

FreeFlyFreak
04-27-2011, 1:54 PM
@ Average Joe American, Thanks for your input. I just want to correct your terminology with the statements after the word "fact". What you are speaking of is salesman BS and Internet myth. It has no basis in Fact.......................................

The "idea" has nothing to do with reality, but it puts the users into a superior state of mind. It gives the common product a sales point to separate it from the pack of others...even if its a myth.

@dieselpower

I truly thank you for your post!
I shortened the quote so it wouldnt take up a whole page, I am new to AR's, dont own one yet but really appreciated the common sense in your post and the time it took to put it together.

Thanks.

Jel
04-27-2011, 4:27 PM
Stag 2T here, no problems whatsoever. 4000+ rounds through her so far.

stag6.8
04-27-2011, 7:03 PM
I have two stag 6.8`s ....I hunt with them (wild boar)...They are darn good quailty rifles...just remember keep it wet...just need to find a good reloader lol...but thats a different story.

stag6.8
04-27-2011, 7:10 PM
I got a Stag 6.8 right when they came out & my only complaints were the lack of m4 feed ramps & the barrel threading is 1/2x36 .

I agree with the m4 ramps...I had some added at the gunsmith...I changed the muzzle brake to a YHM one...and I got the 6.8 when stag first came out with them...so i upgraded (reamed) my chambers from a SAMMI a SPEC II. much better.

Flintlock Tom
04-28-2011, 11:49 AM
I got the model 7, but was concerned about the lack of M4 feed ramps in the upper receiver.
When I got the gun together I took a look at where the first round bullet tip lines up with the chamber. The top round in the magazine (6.8 SPC) lines up well up on the barrel extension feed ramps. If working properly the bullet tip should never touch feed ramps cut into the receiver.

Oh, and one more vote for very happy with my Stag rifle. With the free-float handguard and two-stage match trigger it's shooting sub-moa groups (.75-1.0") at 100 yards.

Two Shots
04-28-2011, 12:49 PM
If Stag Arms made such an inferior weapon compared to BCM, why would BCM sell Stag's? :confused:

Stag's are GTG.

rodeoflyer
04-28-2011, 12:56 PM
The disconnector in my Stag took a **** after ~ 1000 rounds or so. My extractor spring also broke. I don't know how the **** that happened.

The parts were cheap , of course. I didn't bother to contact Stag, just fixed it and shrugged it off.

Other than that - no complaints. It's accurate and was inexpensive.

I can't say whether it's any better or worse than anything else out there. It serves the purpose I bought it for.




As for BCM - too bad for them I wanted things and everything was on backorder.....

Hornet_RN
04-28-2011, 1:00 PM
Stags are good guns

i think what i have is a Stag-15 2T...they're good starter AR-15s, and i use them for casual 3-gun competitions. i want to try it out on varmints soon though. they're pretty accurate with my setup of an eotech and a magnifier.

this group was about 40 rounds shot slow fire at 100 yards on a benchrest with standard 55-grain PMC ammo.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/marbles71/IMG_1498.jpg

dieselpower
04-28-2011, 1:04 PM
Stags are good guns

i think what i have is a Stag-15 2T...they're good starter AR-15s, and i use them for casual 3-gun competitions. i want to try it out on varmints soon though. they're pretty accurate with my setup of an eotech and a magnifier.

this group was about 40 rounds shot slow fire at 100 yards on a benchrest.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/marbles71/IMG_1498.jpg


:dots::popcorn:

can't wait for the discourse on that pic to come about...

Striker
04-28-2011, 7:42 PM
Start here; M4carbine.net Do your research. After you do some research, if you think it's the right rifle for you, go for it. I wouldn't, but that's me, not you.

blazing
04-28-2011, 7:46 PM
i have 5+ friends that own stag rifles and so far i have not heard any complaints about them. im my eyes i say they are GTG.

Reductio
04-28-2011, 8:08 PM
:dots::popcorn:

can't wait for the discourse on that pic to come about...

Grouping isn't bad.

Can't tell what the heck is in that cup.

GET THAT BULLET BUTTON TOOL OFF YOUR GUN.

its mcgavin son
04-28-2011, 8:18 PM
I'm glad I came across the thread. I'm ready to purchase a Stag 2HT upper from them. Now I need to find a legitimate distributor so I can grab it for less than $699.xx!!

Hornet_RN
04-28-2011, 8:20 PM
Grouping isn't bad.

Can't tell what the heck is in that cup.

GET THAT BULLET BUTTON TOOL OFF YOUR GUN.

that is a cup of green tea

and the bullet button tool stays!!! heh heh

intheknow
04-28-2011, 8:23 PM
alittle better than Good in my book...

Reductio
04-28-2011, 8:31 PM
and the bullet button tool stays!!! heh heh

^^ Only if you want to be a test case / felon.

Hornet_RN
04-28-2011, 8:44 PM
^^ Only if you want to be a test case / felon.

ehh...well that sucks...thanks for the heads up

jonnyt16
04-29-2011, 5:27 AM
I'm glad I came across the thread. I'm ready to purchase a Stag 2HT upper from them. Now I need to find a legitimate distributor so I can grab it for less than $699.xx!!
I got mine through these guys... http://www.m4store.net/index.php?p=product&id=99

its mcgavin son
04-29-2011, 9:05 AM
I got mine through these guys... http://www.m4store.net/index.php?p=product&id=99

Great price! Thank you! However they're currently out of stock :(

hotfire
04-29-2011, 9:11 AM
My friend ordered his stag model 2 from these guys. Shipping is included in the price, their prices are the lowest I've seen for Stag uppers.

http://ar15sa.fatcow.com/store/page2.html

RONIN.
04-29-2011, 9:16 AM
ok, is a stag a noveske or kac, or lmt.. no.. but will it work for 99.9% of ppl on this board for there range plinking.. yes... would i take one to war, no..

but when it realy comes down to it, wil it go bang all the time.. yes..

i understand the cool factor/ tacticool of having a noveske,bcm,dd, kac or whatever else. but when it really comes down to it.. most do not NEED a warrior class rifle to go to the range..

ronin

dieselpower
04-29-2011, 9:22 AM
Start here; M4carbine.net Do your research. After you do some research, if you think it's the right rifle for you, go for it. I wouldn't, but that's me, not you.

Why would someone want to go to M4C. Lets tell a guy to go to the Chevy.com forums when he wants to buy a Ford...yeah thats smart :rolleyes:

M4C is not a non-bias website. They have pre-conceived ideas based on false science and sales gimmicks. They have taken a good philosophy of, "buy a quality made part" and twisted that into Chevy vs ford sales game.

The members here have PROVED the M4C chart is a slight of hand, 1/2 truth misdirection trick that is used by salesman to sell product A over product B.

A California AR15 buyer will be better served here then over there or AR15.com IF they are looking for a healthy debate with non-bias reviews of equipment.

If you own a S-10, go to Chevy.com, if you hate guns go to Brady.com, if you own a BCM, or Colt go to M4C.net.

Most of Calguns.net don't care what it says on the side of your lower, most of us assemble from stripped anyway.

DevilDog1988
04-29-2011, 9:24 AM
I have a stag 3H its awsome. Cheap but very reliable, jams less than my Issued M16a4. got it from ar15sales.com awsome prices lousy, terrible, crappy, customer service. Shoots anything from tulammo steel case to penetrator ammo.

hk91666
04-29-2011, 9:27 AM
I got all mine from www.lanworldinc.com

dieselpower
04-29-2011, 9:30 AM
ok, is a stag a noveske or kac, or lmt.. no.. but will it work for 99.9% of ppl on this board for there range plinking.. yes... would i take one to war, no..

but when it really comes down to it, will it go bang all the time.. yes..

i understand the cool factor/ tacticool of having a noveske,bcm,dd, kac or whatever else. but when it really comes down to it.. most do not NEED a warrior class rifle to go to the range..

ronin


[sigh] :rolleyes: and this is the problem.... people have be brainwashed to think gun A is better than gun B, when the reasons gun B is NOT as good as gun A have ZERO to do with war....

there is ZERO difference between a Stag and a Colt or a BCM or a LMT that would make a Stag less of a war-weapon.

The same differenced you point to are seen in HUNDREDS of other weapons...those weapons ARE in combat...those weapons ARE killing enemy...those weapons ARE doing just fine. In fact...most people drool over those OTHER weapons when they see them.

Its all BS.

1forall
04-29-2011, 9:44 AM
This thread is still going? Go Stag!!!

its mcgavin son
04-29-2011, 10:07 AM
My friend ordered his stag model 2 from these guys. Shipping is included in the price, their prices are the lowest I've seen for Stag uppers.

http://ar15sa.fatcow.com/store/page2.html

Oh man! Thank you for that site, it's amazing. I'm going to from there right now

17+1
04-29-2011, 11:32 AM
ok, is a stag a noveske or kac, or lmt.. no.. but will it work for 99.9% of ppl on this board for there range plinking.. yes... would i take one to war, no..

but when it realy comes down to it, wil it go bang all the time.. yes..

i understand the cool factor/ tacticool of having a noveske,bcm,dd, kac or whatever else. but when it really comes down to it.. most do not NEED a warrior class rifle to go to the range..

ronin

:smilielol5:

"You are not a SEAL or an operator, get over it" (most of us here)

"5 rounds...I was going to get beta mags of a shrike belt fed conversion...5 rounds is not enough on todays battlefield..."

"What battlefield? What the F are you talking about?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evr_tP9cJWY

tacticalcity
04-29-2011, 11:53 AM
Originally Posted by RONIN.
ok, is a stag a noveske or kac, or lmt.. no.. but will it work for 99.9% of ppl on this board for there range plinking.. yes... would i take one to war, no..

but when it realy comes down to it, wil it go bang all the time.. yes..

i understand the cool factor/ tacticool of having a noveske,bcm,dd, kac or whatever else. but when it really comes down to it.. most do not NEED a warrior class rifle to go to the range..

Well, I think you're right about not needing a Noveske, KAC or LMT but I think you are wrong about the STAG not being a "warrior class" rifle.

Plenty of law enforcement agencies have put the STAG through the ringer and it has come up a real winner. Stag has proven themselves to a reliable manufacturer.

A lot of people see the high end sticker prices of certain brands and come to the false conclusion that the price directly relates to effectiveness or battle readiness. It doesn't.

What you are paying for in many cases is R&D. Research and developement on all their nifty new design features like switch blocks and new flash hiders and piston systems and the like is expensive and must be offset. So the price of not only those new devices goes up, but all their parts. Driving up the entire cost of the rifle...whether yours came with that nifty new device or not. The three brands you mentioned are constantly inventing new stuff...which is nice...but it does drive up their prices.

In the case of Noveske, they often include a lot of things like stainless steel barrels that you definately would not want on a battle rifle but would want on bench rest rifle where the round count is less and precision is king. Those things add to the cost, and are actually the wromg choice for a CQB or Battle Rifle where the round count would be really high, dead on accuracy is secondary to speed, and the amount of wear and tear on the barrel is unacceptable.

My point? Don't confuse brand name or sticker price with effectiveness or reliability. Yes, you do get what you pay for. But sometimes that just means lots of R&D on new products and/or stuff you do not need or want. You don't need the lastest fancy doo-dad, or the coolest brand name that makes all those fancy doo-dads to have an effective and reliable rifle. All you really need is a time tested and battle proven design from a reliable manufacturer. What you want for the sake of wanting, however, is another story.

hnoppenberger
04-29-2011, 12:35 PM
ive got a slew of stags, they all shoots great.

i prefer 1/9 for most of my loadings. i find 1/7 only groups tight with super heavy loads and charges. i prefer under half moa for my bench guns, but your results may vary.

i dont need machine gun steel for my barrels either. i wish i did.

yea, and stag does triple check their bolts only batch tests them, big deal, think CMT did that already? i think so.

the only bolt carrier ive had fail for a geewhiz 'national match' chrome unit from i forget where and installing the socom bolt upgrade kit fixed that.

if you want 1/7 barrels and machine gun steel barrels that wont group as well, then yea BCM makes em all like that off the shelf.

RONIN.
04-29-2011, 12:36 PM
:smilielol5:

"You are not a SEAL or an operator, get over it" (most of us here)

"5 rounds...I was going to get beta mags of a shrike belt fed conversion...5 rounds is not enough on todays battlefield..."

"What battlefield? What the F are you talking about?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evr_tP9cJWY

THAT VIDEO IS SO FITTING TO SO MANY HERE..

and when i said it wasn't in the same boat as a kac,lmt or noveske.. i did not mean to say that stags were junk.. just that they are not in the same class of weapons..

yes i understand there are many many leo agencies that use stag rifles.. as i have trained a few of those agencies..

as for those that say there stag is reliable, i own one, and yes it is reliable.. it is my training carbine.. but i would not take it with me overseas on a security detail.. peice of mind is worth the extra money.. that i spend on a custom assembled weapon.. that i assemble myself..


ronin

hnoppenberger
04-29-2011, 12:36 PM
QFT.

Well, I think you're right about not needing a Noveske, KAC or LMT but I think you are wrong about the STAG not being a "warrior class" rifle.

Plenty of law enforcement agencies have put the STAG through the ringer and it has come up a real winner. Stag has proven themselves to a reliable manufacturer.

A lot of people see the high end sticker prices of certain brands and come to the false conclusion that the price directly relates to effectiveness or battle readiness. It doesn't.

What you are paying for in many cases is R&D. Research and developement on all their nifty new design features like switch blocks and new flash hiders and piston systems and the like is expensive and must be offset. So the price of not only those new devices goes up, but all their parts. Driving up the entire cost of the rifle...whether yours came with that nifty new device or not. The three brands you mentioned are constantly inventing new stuff...which is nice...but it does drive up their prices.

In the case of Noveske, they often include a lot of things like stainless steel barrels that you definately would not want on a battle rifle but would want on bench rest rifle where the round count is less and precision is king. Those things add to the cost, and are actually the wromg choice for a CQB or Battle Rifle where the round count would be really high, dead on accuracy is secondary to speed, and the amount of wear and tear on the barrel is unacceptable.

My point? Don't confuse brand name or sticker price with effectiveness or reliability. Yes, you do get what you pay for. But sometimes that just means lots of R&D on new products and/or stuff you do not need or want. You don't need the lastest fancy doo-dad, or the coolest brand name that makes all those fancy doo-dads to have an effective and reliable rifle. All you really need is a time tested and battle proven design from a reliable manufacturer. What you want for the sake of wanting, however, is another story.

dieselpower
04-29-2011, 2:36 PM
THAT VIDEO IS SO FITTING TO SO MANY HERE..

and when i said it wasn't in the same boat as a kac,lmt or noveske.. i did not mean to say that stags were junk.. just that they are not in the same class of weapons..

yes i understand there are many many leo agencies that use stag rifles.. as i have trained a few of those agencies..

as for those that say there stag is reliable, i own one, and yes it is reliable.. it is my training carbine.. but i would not take it with me overseas on a security detail.. peice of mind is worth the extra money.. that i spend on a custom assembled weapon.. that i assemble myself..


ronin

In the same way I wouldn't trust an AK47 built in Russia, or an HK built in Germany, or a Saiga 12, or Saiga AK47... since none of those are built to the standards salesmen have set for the Colt.

Here is your problem, [and no one will address this], who ever says Stag isn't trustworthy in combat. The same things that separate a Stag from a Colt are the same things that separate a Colt from an HK..or an AK or a FAL.

Please go try and tell another country their firearm isn't "battle ready" because it doesn't have a barrel made to Mil-B-11595E specs... they will tell you to take your stupid mall ninja "chart" and go home.

Please go tell the 1000 Countries who use non-MPI non-HT bolts in their firearms issued to Military troops that their FALs and AKs will all of a sudden stop working in combat. They will tell you they have been making weapons longer than the US has been a country, Have been fighting for the past 40+ years with these weapons and once again take your M4C "chart" back home.

Its mall ninja keyboard commando over analyzing stupid stuff and has no real life truth. If you believe that, than AK47s are not combat effective, HKs are NOT combat effective, FALs are not combat effective....hell the M1A is NOT combat effective...

Latinimagexx
04-29-2011, 2:55 PM
:smilielol5:

"You are not a SEAL or an operator, get over it" (most of us here)

"5 rounds...I was going to get beta mags of a shrike belt fed conversion...5 rounds is not enough on todays battlefield..."

"What battlefield? What the F are you talking about?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evr_tP9cJWY

Funny vid. lol

evidens83
04-29-2011, 3:18 PM
Something that I just noticed. How come we always have Stag and Del-Ton feedback threads but we hardly if ever have any LMT, BCM, DD feedback threads? Tells you something...

Raptor1Ronin
04-29-2011, 4:00 PM
I love my Stag to death ! I'll tell you what when the **** hits the fan its not going to matter what brand you have as long as your shooting in the same direction!

BobbyZ
04-29-2011, 4:09 PM
Someone delete this thread. Should change this cite to Dramaguns.net instead. Someone start helpguns.net for "newbs/noobs" only.

Noobs for life!

Joe
04-29-2011, 4:10 PM
:smilielol5:

"You are not a SEAL or an operator, get over it" (most of us here)

"5 rounds...I was going to get beta mags of a shrike belt fed conversion...5 rounds is not enough on todays battlefield..."

"What battlefield? What the F are you talking about?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evr_tP9cJWY

That video is absolutely hilarious.

RONIN.
04-29-2011, 4:20 PM
In the same way I wouldn't trust an AK47 built in Russia, or an HK built in Germany, or a Saiga 12, or Saiga AK47... since none of those are built to the standards salesmen have set for the Colt.

first off.. i by no means said stag was junk, what i did say is that i would not take it with me on an oconus on a security detail, why because i have higher quality rifles that i depend on and do depend on..

Here is your problem, [and no one will address this], who ever says Stag isn't trustworthy in combat. The same things that separate a Stag from a Colt are the same things that separate a Colt from an HK..or an AK or a FAL.
i understand that, yes there are many countries that use older designs, hell on my last detail in the sandbox, we took fire from towelheads armed with mosins..
Please go try and tell another country their firearm isn't "battle ready" because it doesn't have a barrel made to Mil-B-11595E specs... they will tell you to take your stupid mall ninja "chart" and go home.
HAHAHA mall ninja chart.. screw that stupid ***** chart.. i by no means go by that bull$**** chart put together by a bunch of dumb kids that play operator..
Please go tell the 1000 Countries who use non-MPI non-HT bolts in their firearms issued to Military troops that their FALs and AKs will all of a sudden stop working in combat. They will tell you they have been making weapons longer than the US has been a country, Have been fighting for the past 40+ years with these weapons and once again take your M4C "chart" back home.
as i stated before that chart is full of BULL*****..
Its mall ninja keyboard commando over analyzing stupid stuff and has no real life truth. If you believe that, than AK47s are not combat effective, HKs are NOT combat effective, FALs are not combat effective....hell the M1A is NOT combat effective...
i love the use of you MALL NINJA world over and over.. mall ninja.. idiot with gun that plays operator.. hmm.. by no means does that describe myself.. as i am getting ready to go back overseas once again.. but of course by me saying id rather use my dd upper over a stag while my life is on the line.. i am now a mall ninja.. ok.. :rolleyes:

bu since i happen to like my life, and like the peice of mind my dd barrels, and bolts give me.. i am a mall ninja.. thank you.. may you have many ftf and fte.. :D

dieselpower
04-29-2011, 7:32 PM
i love the use of you MALL NINJA world over and over.. mall ninja.. idiot with gun that plays operator.. hmm.. by no means does that describe myself.. as i am getting ready to go back overseas once again.. but of course by me saying id rather use my dd upper over a stag while my life is on the line.. i am now a mall ninja.. ok.. :rolleyes:

bu since i happen to like my life, and like the peice of mind my dd barrels, and bolts give me.. i am a mall ninja.. thank you.. may you have many ftf and fte.. :D

:TFH::rolleyes: ok man. if the term didnt fit, you would care if I used it. I wasnt directing it at you, I was directing it at the "logic" you have been lied to about. I can not fault you for being told erroneous info.

I know a 22 year retired E8 Gunners Mate who is a total mall ninja. He loves to point to the purple heart and 2x national defense, 3 combat tour awards hanging on his "me wall". He tells me I'm an idiot for attempting to educate young guns and old grunts who don't want it. He does this as he polishes the fmj federal bulk ammo he bought at walmart.

I don't mind him telling me I man idiot...he can't turn on a computer so doesn't care I call him a mall ninja and if you think a DD barrel stops you from having a ftf and fte...

my wife believes her music downloads go faster if she turns her cordless mouse off while listening to music...whatever floats your boat I say.

when you are right, there is no reason to research when others explain you is wrong.

I've done the research myself, I don't have to rely on the word of bias people. I have asked people who don't give a hoot about guns for honest down to earth answers dealing with these issues you guys bring up. Those experts laugh at what some of you believe.

Good luck and stay safe man. Hope to hear from you when you get back.

Striker
04-30-2011, 12:37 PM
Why would someone want to go to M4C. Lets tell a guy to go to the Chevy.com forums when he wants to buy a Ford...yeah thats smart :rolleyes:

M4C is not a non-bias website. They have pre-conceived ideas based on false science and sales gimmicks. They have taken a good philosophy of, "buy a quality made part" and twisted that into Chevy vs ford sales game.

The members here have PROVED the M4C chart is a slight of hand, 1/2 truth misdirection trick that is used by salesman to sell product A over product B.

A California AR15 buyer will be better served here then over there or AR15.com IF they are looking for a healthy debate with non-bias reviews of equipment.

If you own a S-10, go to Chevy.com, if you hate guns go to Brady.com, if you own a BCM, or Colt go to M4C.net.

Most of Calguns.net don't care what it says on the side of your lower, most of us assemble from stripped anyway.


Nice little diatribe on M4carbine, but To address you're comments. You don't want to hear what guys like Larry Vickers or Gary Roberts or Hilton Yam think? Really, why? The amount of experience these guys have and their knowledge base is in valuable. You don't get that at AR15.com Maybe you don't care. That's your choice. But maybe the OP does care. Maybe he wants to hear from a former member of Detachment Delta who has forgotten more about weapons than most of us will ever know, including most active duty or former LEO or soldiers. Also, if you read my post correctly, I said start there, not that it was the bible of the M4.

Personally, I care about things like CHF barrels, barrels made from M249 machine gun barrel steel, M4 feed ramps, shot peened, MP tested bolt etc. So if that's caring about what's written on the side of my lower or if that makes me a mall ninja, guilty. IMHO, there is a reason why many professionals choose or recommend Colt, Daniel Defense, BCM, Noveske, LMT, LWRC, Knights Armament etc. If you prefer your Stag or your builds, ok. Maybe someone with no experience would prefer to look into it before deciding.