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View Full Version : attaching a bullet button tool?


coy80176
04-09-2011, 11:05 AM
check this out...is it kosher, or is it a set up?

I googled "bullet button tool" and a few links down found:

http://www.riflegear.com/p-192-riflegear-bullet-tool.aspx

In the description, it reads, "When at the range, just clip the Bullet Tool onto your belt, pants, or sling and you will always have a tool for your Bullet Button within reach."

Now, by attaching it to the sling (which is attached to the rifle) as stated in the add, are we sliding down the slippery slope?! If this is a trap, Riflegear needs to correct their advertisement. Otherwise, the rational is that it is not attached to the rifle....hmmm, still not sure on this one. What do you all think of this scenario?

Thanks for your input!

stitchnicklas
04-09-2011, 11:19 AM
SLING IS ATTACHED TOOL AND NO-GO

C_1
04-09-2011, 11:29 AM
With a BB tool attached to sling, while the sling is attached to rifle, its a fail. Dont do it!

coy80176
04-09-2011, 11:30 AM
caveat emptor...

dieselpower
04-09-2011, 11:30 AM
I disagree. The sling is the sling and is a tool. There is no law against this. What people fear is attaching the BB tool to the FIREARM making the Tool part of the firearm.

Just as ammo in a stock is not "loaded" a tool attached to a sling is not part of the firearm. Same goes for magazines with the tool mounted at the bottom.

it all steams from an interpretation of "readily" as it is worded in the PC.

West9319
04-09-2011, 11:37 AM
I disagree. The sling is the sling and is a tool. There is no law against this. What people fear is attaching the BB tool to the FIREARM making the Tool part of the firearm.

Just as ammo in a stock is not "loaded" a tool attached to a sling is not part of the firearm. Same goes for magazines with the tool mounted at the bottom.

it all steams from an interpretation of "readily" as it is worded in the PC.

Makes sense.

coy80176
04-09-2011, 11:38 AM
the law does not restrict attaching the tool to a tool...

Dieselpower, Thanks for putting light on the perspective. The example of the magazine with the tool on bottom is spot on.

That product has been available as advertised for sometime. I'm surprised that it has not come up as a problem, and if it's legal, it's a good place to keep the tool.

Do any of you keep the tool attached to the sling?

Cheers again.

stitchnicklas
04-09-2011, 11:41 AM
too much room for leo fail with the sling attachment..

they can make mistakes,but they are only painful to you....

TKM
04-09-2011, 11:44 AM
There are a few products that attach to the bullet button and magically transform you into a felon.

I don't believe that is the case here.

I'm not sure why anybody needs an extra tool. Unless you are out of ammo you should be fine. If you are out, who cares?

West9319
04-09-2011, 11:46 AM
This guy does


http://youtu.be/48JRkHOEXoM

Rukus
04-09-2011, 12:11 PM
I think the big difference between magazines with the tool installed and ammo in/on the buttstock is that they CANNOT be utilized in that configuration.

A tool attached to a sling can be utilized in said configuration.

707electrician
04-09-2011, 12:22 PM
I don't see why it would be a problem. If you had a bullet tied to a string hanging from the gun would that be illegal? I would think that as long as the "tool" isn't attached to the gun in such a way that it makes the mag release work as a standard mag release you are fine

dieselpower
04-09-2011, 12:36 PM
I don't see why it would be a problem. If you had a bullet tied to a string hanging from the gun would that be illegal? I would think that as long as the "tool" isn't attached to the gun in such a way that it makes the mag release work as a standard mag release you are fine

yes. A tool hanging from the firearm then brings the statement, "The firearm ITSELF has the capability to readily detach the magazine." Its a strict interpretation on the wording in the law, but plausible to think an LEO and DA will play that game with you.

On the sling is one more step away from the firearm, even if that sling is attached to the firearm.

its on dangerous ground, but defensible ground. Its about the same as a 10/30 in a BB rifle... there mere fact with a set of tools I can change it back gives credence to someone's false reading of the law.

if they want to F with you...they are going to F with you.

The only way to stay 99% safe is to NOT PLAT THAT GAME.
1) only use 10rd magazines that were designed as 10rd magazines.
2) only use a bullet as a tool

supersonic
04-09-2011, 12:41 PM
Whether legal or not, I know of at least two FFL's in the Central Valley that display HK USC's with the radlock and the tool is tied to the triggerguard. Saw them both with my own eyes. Pretty bold, IMO....Or just ignorant.

Bobby Hated
04-09-2011, 4:36 PM
none of his has gone to court to my understanding. but i think theyre looking for a test case. if you get arrested let calguns crpa and nra know.

Steve1968LS2
04-09-2011, 4:39 PM
the law does not restrict attaching the tool to a tool...

Dieselpower, Thanks for putting light on the perspective. The example of the magazine with the tool on bottom is spot on.

That product has been available as advertised for sometime. I'm surprised that it has not come up as a problem, and if it's legal, it's a good place to keep the tool.

Do any of you keep the tool attached to the sling?

Cheers again.

Yea, but to use the tool that is part of the bottom of the magazine the magazine must be detached from the rifle... so the tool is never used while "part" of the rifle.

Just sayin'

Tank 57
04-09-2011, 4:59 PM
none of his has gone to court to my understanding. but i think theyre looking for a test case. if you get arrested let calguns crpa and nra know.

Not "if" you get arrested,but when you get arrested.

PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE
04-10-2011, 1:09 AM
Why even bother taking a chance on being harassed about it, just asking for a major headache, is it really putting you out by attaching it to your person as opposed to the sling? A round on the bench works great for me.

emptybottle151
04-10-2011, 8:18 AM
http://youtu.be/c1Rp7oNluoc

Don29palms
04-10-2011, 11:05 AM
I just use a glove with a rivet through the middle finger.

Don29palms
04-10-2011, 11:13 AM
if a bullet button tool becomes part of the firearm when attached then by that logic a sling would become part of the firearm when attached and a tool attached to the sling would then become part of the firearm too. That's just my thought process. Why take the chance. Kinda like having a flash light mounted to a rifle and saying it's not part of the fire arm because the mount is touching the firearm and not the flashlight.

dieselpower
04-10-2011, 11:37 AM
if a bullet button tool becomes part of the firearm when attached then by that logic a sling would become part of the firearm when attached and a tool attached to the sling would then become part of the firearm too. That's just my thought process. Why take the chance. Kinda like having a flash light mounted to a rifle and saying it's not part of the fire arm because the mount is touching the firearm and not the flashlight.

Yeah, you have the logic correct. Just as a law says any ammo attached to a firearm = a loaded firearm and then the fact that ammo in a sling that is on a rifle is NOT a loaded firearm, or when ammo is in a holder attached to a stock doesn't = a loaded firearm either. Its hard to wrap your head around, but its legal mumbo jumbo.

A sling or item attached to a rifle is not the firearm. The firearm must have the capacity to readily detach the magazine all by itself. A BB tool attached to the firearm CAN BE viewed as meeting that requirement. Once you bring a sling into the debate, you have taken it one step farther away from the firearm itself...you now need the firearm + sling + tool to remove the magazine.

Once again the best way is
1) 10rd factory manufactured magazine
2) a Bullet tip.

This is 100% as worded in law...still only allows 99% defense since a LEO and DA can play any game they want with you.

rbetts
04-10-2011, 9:09 PM
I sure don't want to be deiselpowers test case. And you shouldn't either. Common sense says keep it off your gun. Testosterone and a big wallet along with your black rifle being liberated from your hands because of laziness is not the answer in this instance.

Dark Mod
04-10-2011, 9:31 PM
the "tool" is just a bullett. Its fine

Baconator
04-10-2011, 9:33 PM
I bought some inert rounds from a Calgunner that are key chains. I keep them clipped via a carabiner to my belt loop. Easy access, no attachment needed.

Bluhdow!
04-10-2011, 9:42 PM
Do any of you keep the tool attached to the sling?

I do. I have the Arsenal SGL so I looped the key onto my sling.








I'll let you know if I get arrested.

moosegun
04-10-2011, 9:50 PM
I just use a glove with a rivet through the middle finger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Rp7oNluoc&feature=related

ParallaxTactical.com sells these Gpick