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View Full Version : Off Duty LEO should be allowed to carry @ Dodger Stadium?


Mr. Wannabe High Profile Banger
04-08-2011, 1:14 AM
So I guess the ex police chief thinks off duty cops should be aloud allowed to carry guns into dodger stadium?

Would this of saved the unlucky EMT that was attacked there this week?
He wasn't an officer so how could that of helped him?

Would these officers be aloud to drink?
Who would know if they were officers and if they were carrying a firearm in order to deny them if they did attempt to drink.


I want to be a jerk and start a brady type foundation to stop the attempt to make it ok for Off Duty officers to carry at sporting events, or any major public event.

"There is just way too many things that can happen"
"Why would you need a gun at a ball game?"
"Families, Kids, And sporting activities don't mix"
"If they need a gun to feel safe, stay home and fiddle your gun, you can always watch the game on tv"

Anyone else wanna think of some smart a** comments?

speeedracerr
04-08-2011, 1:59 AM
So I guess the ex police chief thinks off duty cops should be aloud to carry guns into dodger stadium?

Would this of saved the unlucky EMT that was attacked there this week?
He wasn't an officer so how could that of helped him?

Would these officers be aloud to drink?
Who would know if they were officers and if they were carrying a firearm in order to deny them if they did attempt to drink.


I want to be a jerk and start a brady type foundation to stop the attempt to make it ok for Off Duty officers to carry at sporting events, or any major public event.

"There is just way too many things that can happen"
"Why would you need a gun at a ball game?"
"Families, Kids, And sporting activities don't mix"
"If they need a gun to feel safe, stay home and fiddle your gun, you can always watch the game on tv"

Anyone else wanna think of some smart a** comments?

Being a hardcore Dodgers fan who always goes to games... I think its a great Idea for off duty officers to carry since off duty or not, they are still Police officers and sworn to protect, serve and uphold the law.

I would goes as far as to say that CCW permit holders should be allowed to protect oneself from such heinous acts of violence.

Of course, ANYONE carrying should not Drink period! But I do agree if LEOs were allowed to CCW, they may have some leverage if non-lethal options fail. but its really hard to say in case of the mob mentality of some of the wanna be Dodgers fan who cause riff raff just for kicks.

Kharn
04-08-2011, 2:29 AM
Its "allowed", not "aloud"

mag360
04-08-2011, 3:28 AM
i think CCW and LEO should definitely be able to carry. Not drinking is the persons responsibility. Although, 1 beer doesn't make you a trigger happy tard... Besides beers are $10 anyways at stadiums and I try not to drink unless someone bought me tickets and I'm getting them a drink to be nice.

Mr. Wannabe High Profile Banger
04-08-2011, 3:45 AM
I agree if LEO can carry any CCW should be aloud.

I spell incorrectly on purpose to spot the know it all nerdy types that should of learned the pen is mightier than the sword in grammar class.

drclark
04-08-2011, 3:46 AM
From my understanding, Dodger stadium is private property so can't they start enforcing a strict dress code to deter banger types?

Also, double the price of the cheap seats and stop selling alcohol at the stadium.

Also, change the team colors to pastel purple or pink as well.

If I were the team owners, I would be doing everything I could to deter the banger element from coming to the park.

Until they allow ccw for the commoners you won't stop this kind of attack. Instead, you've got Charlie beck saying he's not going to spare any expense to prevent this type of attack again. I'm sure the powers that be secretly relish these type of situations to scare the sheeple into gladly raising taxes to pay for more gov "protection"

The politicians will probably get together and pass "brian's law" that makes attacking someone wearing a team jersey a hate crime so we can all feel safe again.

The fact that a productive individual's life likely has been reduced to a vegetative state of disability (if he survives) will soon be forgotten by all but those who are close to the victim.

Just utter disgust all around....

dg29
04-08-2011, 4:09 AM
Oh yeah and this from Beck that I'd seen the other morning on the news making a statement about the Sylmar shooting of an officer. While mayor, I never miss an opportunity to be in front of a news camera, is at Becks side Beck makes the statement " Unfortunately this shooting of this officer is the result of a well armed public". I took that as he has a desire for even more gun control laws in LA. I wonder just how many ccw's Beck has approved for general joe public? Who wants to bet that these two scumbags that beat the Giants fan were a direct result of Becks and Boston Brattons special order 40?

Rogue187
04-08-2011, 4:39 AM
Grammar and Spell Check can be your friend too!

SanPedroShooter
04-08-2011, 5:03 AM
The team managment has gone out there way to attract the "banger" element. From the music they play at the stadium, to having snoop dogg explain the conduct rules on the big screen and the general lack of up keep done on dodger stadium.
It may be the owners nasty divorce, who knows. Somebody is dropping the ball.

It used to be raider games everyone was afraid to attend....

email
04-08-2011, 5:08 AM
"should have learned"

taperxz
04-08-2011, 5:22 AM
Forget CCW's and cops!! The problem with this thread is one word, "Dodgers" and they sux!

Snaps
04-08-2011, 5:38 AM
From my understanding, Dodger stadium is private property so can't they start enforcing a strict dress code to deter banger types?

Also, double the price of the cheap seats and stop selling alcohol at the stadium.

Also, change the team colors to pastel purple or pink as well.

If I were the team owners, I would be doing everything I could to deter the banger element from coming to the park.

Until they allow ccw for the commoners you won't stop this kind of attack. Instead, you've got Charlie beck saying he's not going to spare any expense to prevent this type of attack again. I'm sure the powers that be secretly relish these type of situations to scare the sheeple into gladly raising taxes to pay for more gov "protection"

The politicians will probably get together and pass "brian's law" that makes attacking someone wearing a team jersey a hate crime so we can all feel safe again.

The fact that a productive individual's life likely has been reduced to a vegetative state of disability (if he survives) will soon be forgotten by all but those who are close to the victim.

Just utter disgust all around....

But that's not how marketing works; They don't care if it's gang bangers wearing their merchandise, all they want to do is make money (as anyone would). Any time a new little hood wannabe wants to start looking hard, who's stuff do they buy?

As for raising the prices on seats: ticket prices don't make them money, everything else does. Get people into the stadium so that they can buy your over priced beer, food and clothing.

In fact, you're looking at this whole thing in the wrong perspective. All this story did was bring more attention to the Dodgers, which means more money.

RomanDad
04-08-2011, 6:11 AM
"Families, Kids, And sporting activities don't mix"

Huh?

ELBong
04-08-2011, 6:44 AM
They should only carry quietly, not aloud.

Baconator
04-08-2011, 6:53 AM
I think it would be smart to allow those who can legally CCW (police or otherwise) to be armed at these types of events provided they don't drink. Every time I go to a major event I just think about how big of a terrorist target that thing would be. At NASCAR at Fontana there are close to 100,000 people there and no metal detectors. There is a large police presence, but anybody could be carrying anything.

It would be kasos.

Window_Seat
04-08-2011, 7:08 AM
We discussed a similar matter here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=414410) sometime back, and I feel that sensitive places will begin to get more narrowly defined once (if) we get a plus ruling in Nordyke. But if this stadium is privately owned, then I suppose we just have to put our heads down and forget about this whole thing and all turn off our computers and go eat a sandwich and take a nap... :headdown: :sarcasm: (we need one of those emoticons)...

From my understanding, Dodger stadium is private property so can't they start enforcing a strict dress code to deter banger types?

Let's start out with NO CRACK pants!!! :rolleyes: Seriously, I like that idea, and maybe we should get to writing to the stadium owners. Anyone who comes in with crack pants and gang type articles of clothing, or gang tattoos showing gets KICKED OUT, bouncer on duty!!!

Just KICK OUT the banger types. Anyone who fits the PROFILE, YESSS I said THAT!!!

Erik.

HowardW56
04-08-2011, 7:36 AM
Its "allowed", not "aloud"


:rolleyes: :iagree:

Grakken
04-08-2011, 7:40 AM
If us serfs can't carry at games, off duty cops should not be allowed to either.

advocatusdiaboli
04-08-2011, 8:19 AM
Never underestimate the power of money. The stadium and team owners and management only care about things that endanger their revenues and profitability. They'll play it the same way they played corked bats, steroid use, and other "cheating"—Feign to be "shocked" to discover it, opine and pontificate on the sacredness of the sport (and their revenue stream), institute some "toothless" changes to appear concerned and acting on the issue, and then ignore it as long as the money keeps rolling in.

The LEO carrying is just window dressing meant to assure the public and keep attendance up and money flowing in. They'll restrict certain paying elements only if they are more trouble than they are worth—i.e. scare away a bigger revenue group, legal issues, or other costs. They are worried about the beating only if it disrupts their food chain and so far it hasn't.

So if you want action and change, you need to hit their revenue stream and they'll take notice. Otherwise, you'll accomplish nothing.

As Joe Montana famously said about dealing with owners and management:"When you say it's about the business, they say it's all about the game; when you say it's about the game, they say it's a business."

tenpercentfirearms
04-08-2011, 8:34 AM
It's private property isn't it? They get to set the rules of conduct when you enter their venue. If you don't like it, don't go. If you want a MLB stadium to allow carry, then buy your own and make your own rules.

dantodd
04-08-2011, 8:39 AM
I agree if LEO can carry any CCW should be aloud.

I spell incorrectly on purpose to spot the know it all nerdy types that should of learned the pen is mightier than the sword in grammar class.

It's "who should have learned...."

advocatusdiaboli
04-08-2011, 8:46 AM
It's "who should have learned...."

If only we held our politicians, far more important ignorance or mistakes, to such high standards—most of them wouldn't be holding office. Next ignorant congressional SOB I hear saying "nuke-u-ler"...I swear...

dantodd
04-08-2011, 8:47 AM
It's private property isn't it? They get to set the rules of conduct when you enter their venue. If you don't like it, don't go. If you want a MLB stadium to allow carry, then buy your own and make your own rules.

People who apply for and accept government approval to run their business, e.g. business licenses etc. give up certain rights in exchange for being in the business of providing a public accommodation. Some of the rights those businesses give up include the ability to exclude or preferentially treat people from a protected class and those who are exercising certain forms of fundamental rights. (such as certain expressions on clothing etc.)

Just like the right to bear arms is not absolute neither are property rights.

CSACANNONEER
04-08-2011, 8:59 AM
Anyone else wanna think of some smart a** comments?

Yep, but if I posted them, I'd be banned for insulting you and your moronic idea. So, I'll just keep my opinions to myself.

ELBong
04-08-2011, 9:08 AM
Yes, I think off-duty cops should be allowed to carry at sporting events. However, I also think that law abiding citizens should be allowed to carry, in any manner, everywhere except protected places like courthouses. I also think that business owners should not be allowed to suspend enumerated civil rights.

taperxz
04-08-2011, 9:14 AM
Yes, I think off-duty cops should be allowed to carry at sporting events. However, I also think that law abiding citizens should be allowed to carry, in any manner, everywhere except protected places like courthouses. I also think that business owners should not be allowed to suspend enumerated civil rights.

This is a crock of an idea!! That would mean you can go into their place of business and say whatever you want, do what ever you want, act anyway you want and the private entity has no say over what you can and can't do in their place of business?? You certainly can't do that when you work for someone. Even though you work for them its still their place and not yours. I could never let an employee carry a gun on his person while working. My insurance would drop me if they found out and it wouldn't be safe to do so in my line of work. There is a time and place for everything.

ELBong
04-08-2011, 9:28 AM
Your insurance SHOULD go down if your employees are providing free armed security at your business. Also, exactly why is it not safe for a LAW ABIDING citizen to cary?

rgray
04-08-2011, 9:30 AM
Also, change the team colors to pastel purple or pink as well.

There is huge potential profit here and what a fantastic idea to get rid of gangs sporting blue. The gang bangers and wannabe gang bangers would all have to purchase new apparel to stay current. Only after they purchase the new, softer, colors would they realize they look like a bunch of girls and would be shamed into seclusion. This, in turn, would free up Dodger Stadium of these nefarious types and problem solved. Owners get a cash influx, gang involvement drops, order is restored to the world.

Ron-Solo
04-08-2011, 9:38 AM
Although now retired and can still carry, if I am at someplace where I am not allowed to carry, I would be much less likely to take action if not carrying for reasons of my own personal safety. Two guys beating another, I take action unarmed, suspect pulls any weapon, I'm between a rock and a hard place with few options.

If armed, I can convince someone that they shouldn't bring a knife to a gunfight.

Even unarmed, there are options, and I frequently carry pepper spray, which is a great equalizer. Doing nothing is never an option in my book, but looking out for #1 always is a top priority. I didn't survive 32+ years in law enforcement by making stupid tactical decisions.

And I won't go to Dodger Stadium because of their rules and lack of safett due to the thugs they cater too. My dad used to have season tickets, but the place is not what it used to be.

fonso
04-08-2011, 9:41 AM
This is a crock of an idea!! That would mean you can go into their place of business and say whatever you want, do what ever you want, act anyway you want and the private entity has no say over what you can and can't do in their place of business?? You certainly can't do that when you work for someone. Even though you work for them its still their place and not yours. I could never let an employee carry a gun on his person while working. My insurance would drop me if they found out and it wouldn't be safe to do so in my line of work. There is a time and place for everything.

THIS!!! You took the words right out of my mouth. Thank you.

tiki
04-08-2011, 9:55 AM
Yep, but if I posted them, I'd be banned for insulting you and your moronic idea. So, I'll just keep my opinions to myself.

This.

Paradiddle
04-08-2011, 10:16 AM
Banning beer would be a better solution to restoring order and peace at Chavez Ravine...

It would appear that the "common" Dodger fan cannot hold his liquor and conduct himself/herself in any sort of semi-decent manner.

BigDogatPlay
04-08-2011, 10:55 AM
And I won't go to Dodger Stadium because of their rules and lack of safett due to the thugs they cater too. My dad used to have season tickets, but the place is not what it used to be.

I haven't been to a game at Dodger Stadium since 2004 simply because the upper decks are so often full of bangers and erstewhile thugs. The parking lots are never a lot of fun as everyone comes together there. The Dodgers have long taken a very much laissez faire approach to dealing with issues both inside the stadium and outside in the parking lots. I am a Giants fan, yes, but I am a baseball fan first and if the home team is in town when I am, I always catch at least one game if time allows and I've been to Dodger Stadium many times over the years.

The large blocks of empty seats at all four of last weekend's games against the Giants are proof of just how poorly the organization is being managed. It was not that long ago they'd have sold out all four. They only claimed a sellout for Opening Day and even at that, there were a lot of seats empty whether they were sold or not, who knows? But for games 2, 3 and 4 of the series the published attendance was:

(Friday) 44,834 (80.1% full)
(Saturday) 40,809 (72.9% full)
(Sunday) 50,896 (90.9% full)

The McCourts are destroying that franchise, and the thugs they actively market to aren't doing them any favors.

sfpcservice
04-08-2011, 11:02 AM
This threads have most premiums grammar cheyecking software and spill checks. No pain, ha ha, no pain.

DisgruntledReaper
04-08-2011, 11:27 AM
There is a reason why LA gets wiped out in tons of movies.........

Excelsior
04-08-2011, 12:07 PM
From my understanding, Dodger stadium is private property so can't they start enforcing a strict dress code to deter banger types?

Also, double the price of the cheap seats and stop selling alcohol at the stadium.

Also, change the team colors to pastel purple or pink as well.

If I were the team owners, I would be doing everything I could to deter the banger element from coming to the park.

Until they allow ccw for the commoners you won't stop this kind of attack. Instead, you've got Charlie beck saying he's not going to spare any expense to prevent this type of attack again. I'm sure the powers that be secretly relish these type of situations to scare the sheeple into gladly raising taxes to pay for more gov "protection"

The politicians will probably get together and pass "brian's law" that makes attacking someone wearing a team jersey a hate crime so we can all feel safe again.

The fact that a productive individual's life likely has been reduced to a vegetative state of disability (if he survives) will soon be forgotten by all but those who are close to the victim.

Just utter disgust all around....
Dodger Stadium sits in the middle of a Hispanic-dominated 'hood (Echo Park.) They aren't winning and McCourt needs to put butts in the seats. The last thing they want to do it turn away because of how they dress.

That said I am a Giants fan but an even bigger Dodgers fan. I have been to Chavez Ravine many times where drunken Giant's fans acted like big time jerks. Their actions would have earned them body bags in the Bronx (Yankees) or Chicago's South Side (White Sox.) I always felt a little weird that Dodger fans are so passive. Apparently something (someone) finally snapped...

Excelsior
04-08-2011, 12:18 PM
I haven't been to a game at Dodger Stadium since 2004 simply because the upper decks are so often full of bangers and erstewhile thugs. The parking lots are never a lot of fun as everyone comes together there. The Dodgers have long taken a very much laissez faire approach to dealing with issues both inside the stadium and outside in the parking lots. I am a Giants fan, yes, but I am a baseball fan first and if the home team is in town when I am, I always catch at least one game if time allows and I've been to Dodger Stadium many times over the years.

The large blocks of empty seats at all four of last weekend's games against the Giants are proof of just how poorly the organization is being managed. It was not that long ago they'd have sold out all four. They only claimed a sellout for Opening Day and even at that, there were a lot of seats empty whether they were sold or not, who knows? But for games 2, 3 and 4 of the series the published attendance was:

(Friday) 44,834 (80.1% full)
(Saturday) 40,809 (72.9% full)
(Sunday) 50,896 (90.9% full)

The McCourts are destroying that franchise, and the thugs they actively market to aren't doing them any favors.
It ain't that bad.

I routinely park on Elysian Park Avenue and walk for 10 minutes to save $20.00 on parking. I usually buy a ticket from a scalper long the way. $15.00 for a nice loge seat the other night.

People need to learn how to keep their mouths shut, keep their wits about themselves and stop acting like victims in wait OR they need to stay home. The belief that being able to CCW would have prevented this last event rings a little hollow. Where were all the tough guys who wished they had been carrying? They could still have waded-in and stopped the beating. Did not having a gun emasculate them?

Excelsior
04-08-2011, 12:21 PM
There is huge potential profit here and what a fantastic idea to get rid of gangs sporting blue. The gang bangers and wannabe gang bangers would all have to purchase new apparel to stay current. Only after they purchase the new, softer, colors would they realize they look like a bunch of girls and would be shamed into seclusion. This, in turn, would free up Dodger Stadium of these nefarious types and problem solved. Owners get a cash influx, gang involvement drops, order is restored to the world.
Naw.

Dodger blue is not a gang color. Bangers might wear Dodger caps but they are black or gold or some other hideous color.

Excelsior
04-08-2011, 12:27 PM
Just out of curiosity, where were all the LEOs? Dodger Stadium has a TON of LEOs at each game. Not because it's a dangerous venue but because it's a glamorous one. It's also easy money. In addition to all the LAPD from the Metro Division, they also have a ton of LAC Deputy Sheriffs who encircle the field between innings -- largely so they can be seen and get in free.

Billy Jack
04-08-2011, 12:56 PM
It ain't that bad.

I routinely park on Elysian Park Avenue and walk for 10 minutes to save $20.00 on parking. I usually buy a ticket from a scalper long the way. $15.00 for a nice loge seat the other night.

People need to learn how to keep their mouths shut, keep their wits about themselves and stop acting like victims in wait OR they need to stay home. The belief that being able to CCW would have prevented this last event rings a little hollow. Where were all the tough guys who wished they had been carrying? They could still have waded-in and stopped the beating. Did not having a gun emasculate them?

Excellent posts Excelsior. I could write extensively on this topic but I would be banned again for specking the truth. Seems the truth tends to upset the Bay Area PC boys who really do not understand the culture that exists in Southern California. http://californiaconcealedcarry.com/blog/

Keep up your intelligent, well thought out posts. I hope the powers to be do not ban me again for my sin of referencing a prior ban.

Billy Jack
Tea Party Patriot & Sage
'The Force is strong with this one'

Bigtime1
04-08-2011, 12:59 PM
The politicians will probably get together and pass "brian's law" that makes attacking someone wearing a team jersey a hate crime so we can all feel safe again.


May sound ridiculous, but I wouldn't bet against it. Just the kind of knee-jerk, feel-good crap legislation we get from the knuckleheads that allegedly represent us.

Which Way Out
04-08-2011, 1:08 PM
I heard on the radio today that if those out of control season ticket holders get caught they will have them taken away. Season ticket holders as you know are the gangster:chris: types right... Reminds me of gun control in some ways.

Excelsior
04-08-2011, 10:35 PM
Excellent posts Excelsior. I could write extensively on this topic but I would be banned again for specking the truth. Seems the truth tends to upset the Bay Area PC boys who really do not understand the culture that exists in Southern California. http://californiaconcealedcarry.com/blog/

Keep up your intelligent, well thought out posts. I hope the powers to be do not ban me again for my sin of referencing a prior ban.

Billy Jack
Tea Party Patriot & Sage
'The Force is strong with this one'
Your blog seems more fixated on unfairly vilifying Latinos/illegal aliens rather than trying to explain what has changed at Dodger Stadium.

Dodger Stadium was built and operated by the O'Malley Family for decades. Old Walter was one smart and shrewd man! The son of a Tammany Hall operative, Walter realized his dream by moving the Dodgers west and building a stadium on 310 prime acres in Downtown LA. His son Peter was no where near as smart/shrewd but he exuded class in everything he did. The O'Malley's ran a class operation and because of that, people were on their best behavior when they attended -- almost like going to church. Latinos have always been a big part of the fan base at Dodger Stadium, particularly Latino families. Dodger Stadium was never the Coliseum.

The O'Malley's however abjectly failed at becoming part of the community -- part of Echo Park and beyond largely because of how they obtained the land in Chavez Ravine and partially because of topography. Unlike Wrigleyville in Chicago or the neighborhood surrounding Fenway Park in Boston, Dodger Stadium sits isolated and secured right in the middle of everything. Almost like a huge fire base.

With the pride of the O'Malleys long gone replaced by a horse's backside like McCourt along with the fact they are not winning, the fan base has been severely degraded AND NOT JUST Latino fans either! Your blog points the finger at Latinos and SO40 and that would be laughable if it were not so tragic. I don't hear a lot of native Spanish speakers at Dodger. When I talk to a Latino 99.9% of the time they speak perfect English -- clearly American born.

Anyway, without a long and strong relationship with the surrounding community, the Dodgers and Dodger Stadium lost much of their identity when the O'Malley's sold out -- just wait until Vin retires. They lost even more when they failed to win and yet more when an imbecile like McCourt took over. The result has been an ever growing number of good tickets (those $15.00 loge tickets were re-cycled tickets from a season ticket holder) at cheap prices which lures in some undesirables and keeps away even more of the nice people/families. McCourt IS working to put butts in the seats by dropping prices, offering deals, etc. but to suggest the number of illegal aliens attending Dodger games is what has changed things is plain stupid.

Peter O'Malley has publicly announced that he would be willing to help facilitate the rebirth of Dodger Stadium should McCourt ever decide to sell. I seriously doubt one of his actions would be to scrutinize the citizenship status of Dodger customers...

Excelsior
04-09-2011, 3:25 AM
Excellent posts Excelsior. I could write extensively on this topic but I would be banned again for specking the truth. Seems the truth tends to upset the Bay Area PC boys who really do not understand the culture that exists in Southern California. http://californiaconcealedcarry.com/blog/

Keep up your intelligent, well thought out posts. I hope the powers to be do not ban me again for my sin of referencing a prior ban.

Billy Jack
Tea Party Patriot & Sage
'The Force is strong with this one'
I re-read your blog. Your words strongly suggest that you are an ignorant and hateful bigot. I don't want anything to do with people like you. Please don't comment about any of my postings in the future. I thank you in advance.

Billy Jack
04-09-2011, 3:58 AM
I re-read your blog. Your words strongly suggest that you are an ignorant and hateful bigot. I don't want anything to do with people like you. Please don't comment about any of my postings in the future. I thank you in advance.

Reality is often times difficult to relate to. You might benefit by listening to the numerous LAPD officers calling into talk radio shows. They have real world experience and are saying the same thing that is in my Blog and then some.

I am sure all the Latinos you know are fine upstanding people. They are not the fan base at Dodger Stadium. In listening to The Three Amigos press conference yesterday and the commentary that followed, it was noted by talk show hosts that the Mayor, Chief and McCourt did everything possible to avoid identifying the ethnic makeup of the attackers or mention gangs, tattoos or of course Special Order 40. I do not know if you fully understand Special Order 40 or how it places officers and the public at risk. One of the callers, an LAPD Officer who has worked Dodger Stadium said certain sections of the cheap seats look like a casting call for the TV series Southland. I guess he is a bigot too.

Take the time to talk to people who have real world experience with these issues and then you can express your opinion with fact based convictions. As I have stated before, Dirty Harry said: 'Opinions are like A@@ H*&%'@, everyone has one'. Perhaps you would benefit from a conversation with Los Angeles Deputy Sheriff March's family. He was killed execution style by an illegal alien, Latino gang member during a traffic stop. After the shooting, the suspect fled to Mexico where he successfully hid for several years.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Educate yourself on the reality of what Special Order 40 and Sanctuary City status has done to the our once beautiful City of the Angels.

If you have the courage, sign up for a ride along in LAPD's Rampart, Newton, Central or 77th Divisions. You will experience a religious, if you will excuse the pun, experience.

Attaboy withdrawn reference your posts. Notice I am not calling you names or challenging your character, just your lack of overview and real world experience. As to your not wanting anything to do with people like me, I am plum broke up about that. I guess we will not be attending church together or doing lunch or coffee. What about all the plans we made to hang out together? (Thinly veiled sarcasm)

Billy Jack
'The Force is strong with this one'

tenpercentfirearms
04-09-2011, 6:34 AM
People who apply for and accept government approval to run their business, e.g. business licenses etc. give up certain rights in exchange for being in the business of providing a public accommodation. Some of the rights those businesses give up include the ability to exclude or preferentially treat people from a protected class and those who are exercising certain forms of fundamental rights. (such as certain expressions on clothing etc.)

Just like the right to bear arms is not absolute neither are property rights.

And your first sentence is the problem. I shouldn't need permission from the government to run a business. I shouldn't have to give up certain rights to serve my customers.

If I don't want guns in my business, I shouldn't have to allow it. If I don't want any type of race in my business, I shouldn't have to allow it.

Freedom is the key here. If you don't like a business with a clearly bigoted attitude, then don't go there. Tell your friends not to go there.

As we see in this example, many people are choosing not to go to Dodger games because of their policies. That is the way it ought to be.

Property rights should trump all. That is the basic premise of a free society. I own it, I get to decide what to do with it. There is no compelling reason you have to patron a private business. People who argue otherwise belong in the always popular, "it's not fair crowd".

Government run or public entities I could see having restrictions as that is public funds paid for by all (or in theory by all). Private business, no.

And before someone gets on here and calls me a racist or says they won't visit my store, what I argue in theory has nothing to do with my own personal policies. I think if a gun shop wanted to exclude Hispanics, blacks, Asians, whites, homosexuals, heterosexuals, and/or transsexuals, that should be their choice. However, when you walk into my store I only see one color. Green. Everyone's cash is green at my store. I would be more than happy to accept any type of paying and lawful client into my business especially if they have been treated differently somewhere else.

That is freedom right there. Having the right to be a moron, but choosing not to be.

And I understand that the way the government currently works that you can be held accountable for discrimination. I think that is a clear example of where the government has overstepped its bounds. It might have been necessary in the 60's and 70's, but today it is just one more way the government controls us all.

Excelsior
04-09-2011, 1:07 PM
And your first sentence is the problem. I shouldn't need permission from the government to run a business. I shouldn't have to give up certain rights to serve my customers.

If I don't want guns in my business, I shouldn't have to allow it. If I don't want any type of race in my business, I shouldn't have to allow it.

Freedom is the key here. If you don't like a business with a clearly bigoted attitude, then don't go there. Tell your friends not to go there.

As we see in this example, many people are choosing not to go to Dodger games because of their policies. That is the way it ought to be.

Property rights should trump all. That is the basic premise of a free society. I own it, I get to decide what to do with it. There is no compelling reason you have to patron a private business. People who argue otherwise belong in the always popular, "it's not fair crowd".

Government run or public entities I could see having restrictions as that is public funds paid for by all (or in theory by all). Private business, no.

And before someone gets on here and calls me a racist or says they won't visit my store, what I argue in theory has nothing to do with my own personal policies. I think if a gun shop wanted to exclude Hispanics, blacks, Asians, whites, homosexuals, heterosexuals, and/or transsexuals, that should be their choice. However, when you walk into my store I only see one color. Green. Everyone's cash is green at my store. I would be more than happy to accept any type of paying and lawful client into my business especially if they have been treated differently somewhere else.

That is freedom right there. Having the right to be a moron, but choosing not to be.

And I understand that the way the government currently works that you can be held accountable for discrimination. I think that is a clear example of where the government has overstepped its bounds. It might have been necessary in the 60's and 70's, but today it is just one more way the government controls us all.
Freedom is the key. Freedom not to be unfairly discriminated against for one's creed, color, etc.

Mr. Wannabe High Profile Banger
04-09-2011, 2:16 PM
Ima thread jack my own thread real fast.

WE ARE ALL RACIST, in some way or another we all feel uncomfortable around people we are unfamiliar with... especially if they are of different creed.

We shouldn't be afraid to say whats on our minds or What we think "in general" of a group of people.
GROUPS of people are just that, groups to be generalized.
But individual people can only be judged on their individual actions.
If you get where im goin with this.


So everyone stop acting high and mighty, we are all a bit racist depending on your comfort level.
And its not WRONG, just something you should learn to deal with and try and treat people how youd hope they'd treat you regardless of their initial impression

Excelsior
04-09-2011, 4:36 PM
Ima thread jack my own thread real fast.

WE ARE ALL RACIST, in some way or another we all feel uncomfortable around people we are unfamiliar with... especially if they are of different creed.

We shouldn't be afraid to say whats on our minds or What we think "in general" of a group of people.
GROUPS of people are just that, groups to be generalized.
But individual people can only be judged on their individual actions.
If you get where im goin with this.


So everyone stop acting high and mighty, we are all a bit racist depending on your comfort level.
And its not WRONG, just something you should learn to deal with and try and treat people how youd hope they'd treat you regardless of their initial impression
Absolutely not! We are not all racists. That's outright bunkum. I might not be immediately comfortable around people that I do not know but if that discomfort derives from their race then I am wrong to feel that emotion.

Did you mean "bigot" rather than "racist?"

You're also wrong again about always speaking our minds or generalizing. We should all be mindful of making ignorant and hateful comments. Making generalizations is typically very bad form -- something done by those without the ability or desire to dig a little deeper.

moosegun
04-09-2011, 4:48 PM
So I guess the ex police chief thinks off duty cops should be aloud allowed to carry guns into dodger stadium?

Would this of saved the unlucky EMT that was attacked there this week?
He wasn't an officer so how could that of helped him?

Would these officers be aloud to drink?
Who would know if they were officers and if they were carrying a firearm in order to deny them if they did attempt to drink.


I want to be a jerk and start a brady type foundation to stop the attempt to make it ok for Off Duty officers to carry at sporting events, or any major public event.

"There is just way too many things that can happen"
"Why would you need a gun at a ball game?"
"Families, Kids, And sporting activities don't mix"
"If they need a gun to feel safe, stay home and fiddle your gun, you can always watch the game on tv"

Anyone else wanna think of some smart a** comments?

This remindes me of what happened at Angels Stadium. these two guys (prob. drunk) started sh*t with an off duty LEO. (he was with his family, wife and baby terrified) He told them they got the wrong guy.. He's never seen them in the stadium. and also told him he was LEO.and to leave him alone. Two drunks were brothers and started a fight with the LEO anyway.. LEO ended up shooting one of the brothers.

SparrowHanger
04-09-2011, 6:03 PM
I used to work down near the stadium and while I haven't been back to LA for some time with one exception, it is a tough and scary area in which it is hard not to confuse the reality of poverty with racism. I am not saying you don't punch the ticket of a gangbanger that tries to jack you up, but don't confuse things with racism.

Anyway, the thread is about whehter off duty officers should be allowed to carry at the stadium. I say no. They are there to enjoy themselves and have a few beers if they wish. They are not there to work. If additional aremed officers are needed, the Stadium should hire them.

Ubermcoupe
04-09-2011, 6:37 PM
There is a reason why LA gets wiped out in tons of movies.........

Wow... That made my loooong day worth it!

+2!!!

tenpercentfirearms
04-10-2011, 8:09 AM
Freedom is the key. Freedom not to be unfairly discriminated against for one's creed, color, etc.

Negative. No such freedom exists and you misuse the word freedom here. Your freedom has to do with your choices, not the choices of others. If you force someone else to accept you, you are not exercising freedom in any sense of the word.

Only when the choices of others infringes upon your life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness. My telling you I don't like to serve your type in my gun store is not an infringement upon your rights. You are free to leave and you are free to shop elsewhere.

Where this country gets into trouble is they think your right to pursue happiness means you should be happy. Far from it. You should merely have the right to go seek happiness. It does not mean you are guaranteed happiness through some government edict or redistribution of wealth.

You can't force people not to be bigots nor should you try. If they are in business and they have such stupid policies or tendencies, why would you want to support them anyway? It makes no sense unless you object is actually control.

Freedom is being able to patron anyone you wish. Freedom is the store's ability to serve anyone they wish.

If Dodger Stadium is no longer serving your needs for entertainment, don't go. If you don't like their gun policies, don't go. Vote with your wallet.

Excelsior
04-11-2011, 1:29 AM
Negative. No such freedom exists and you misuse the word freedom here. Your freedom has to do with your choices, not the choices of others. If you force someone else to accept you, you are not exercising freedom in any sense of the word.

Only when the choices of others infringes upon your life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness. My telling you I don't like to serve your type in my gun store is not an infringement upon your rights. You are free to leave and you are free to shop elsewhere.

Where this country gets into trouble is they think your right to pursue happiness means you should be happy. Far from it. You should merely have the right to go seek happiness. It does not mean you are guaranteed happiness through some government edict or redistribution of wealth.

You can't force people not to be bigots nor should you try. If they are in business and they have such stupid policies or tendencies, why would you want to support them anyway? It makes no sense unless you object is actually control.

Freedom is being able to patron anyone you wish. Freedom is the store's ability to serve anyone they wish.

If Dodger Stadium is no longer serving your needs for entertainment, don't go. If you don't like their gun policies, don't go. Vote with your wallet.

Poppycock. I live in a free society. Not in a toilet.

If you want a business license you had better meet some baseline societal expectations. If you (for example) choose to exclude African Americans from your place of business (as was/is common in the Deep South) you should have your business license pulled. If you demand to serve liquor to 16 year olds, you need to have your liquor license removed.

A free society, not a toilet...

tenpercentfirearms
04-11-2011, 5:39 AM
Poppycock. I live in a free society. Not in a toilet.

If you want a business license you had better meet some baseline societal expectations. If you (for example) choose to exclude African Americans from your place of business (as was/is common in the Deep South) you should have your business license pulled. If you demand to serve liquor to 16 year olds, you need to have your liquor license removed.

A free society, not a toilet...

I disagree with your first notion, but in theory the still developing brain of a 16 year old can be harmed by alcohol. In theory 16 year olds are not developed enough to know what is good for them so a law prohibiting them from purchasing alcohol is arguably legitimate.

However, I do not need a business license to be arrested and prosecuted for that crime. You might as well argue that gun owners need licenses just in case they do things that "society doesn't like". That way if you are a racist or break some vaguely related law, we can remove your license to possess firearms.

There is no legitimate reason to have a business license. It is a tax at best and a means to control private business at worst.

Some people enjoy retraint chains so they don't fall into the toilet I suppose. I prefer to choose to stay out of it.

Bruce
04-12-2011, 1:45 AM
...City of the Angels.



El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río de Porciúncula* actually. :rolleyes:

*The Town of Our Lady the Queen of the Angels on the Porciúncula River

oni.dori
04-12-2011, 2:06 AM
So I guess the ex police chief thinks off duty cops should be aloud allowed to carry guns into dodger stadium?

Would this of saved the unlucky EMT that was attacked there this week?
He wasn't an officer so how could that of helped him?

Would these officers be aloud to drink?
Who would know if they were officers and if they were carrying a firearm in order to deny them if they did attempt to drink.


I want to be a jerk and start a brady type foundation to stop the attempt to make it ok for Off Duty officers to carry at sporting events, or any major public event.

"There is just way too many things that can happen"
"Why would you need a gun at a ball game?"
"Families, Kids, And sporting activities don't mix"
"If they need a gun to feel safe, stay home and fiddle your gun, you can always watch the game on tv"

Anyone else wanna think of some smart a** comments?

Not until ALL of us can. A shiny piece of metal on their shirt doesn't mean they have the need for/right to protection any more than the rest of us. If that's the case, then I'll wear a pin too if thats what it will take to be able to carry.

vantec08
04-12-2011, 3:11 AM
Banning beer would be a better solution to restoring order and peace at Chavez Ravine...

It would appear that the "common" Dodger fan cannot hold his liquor and conduct himself/herself in any sort of semi-decent manner.

San Diego City banned alchohol on city beaches some years ago. Crime went screaming down.

Excelsior
04-12-2011, 3:07 PM
El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río de Porciúncula* actually. :rolleyes:

*The Town of Our Lady the Queen of the Angels on the Porciúncula River
Indeed!

U2BassAce
04-13-2011, 12:05 AM
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Two-Shot-at-Angel-Stadium.html

The concept seemed to work in Aneheim.

Foriegn power
04-13-2011, 7:15 AM
Cops should be allowed to carry everywhere and anywhere. Dodgers games are filled with fools and ex cons. Heck turn on the news, stabbings in the parking lots, base ball players speaking out loud that "let's have a fun past time no violence." It's not even funny.

Excelsior
04-13-2011, 9:43 AM
Cops should be allowed to carry everywhere and anywhere. Dodgers games are filled with fools and ex cons. Heck turn on the news, stabbings in the parking lots, base ball players speaking out loud that "let's have a fun past time no violence." It's not even funny.
How do you know they are "ex cons?" Are you an expert on prison ink? Really?

Should ex cons not be allowed to attend MLB baseball games? Should they be shot if they get out of line? How about the group of CPAs from Encino who get drunk and disorderly? Should they be shot as well?

How many Dodger Stadium parking lot "stabbings" have been in the news?

cmichini
04-13-2011, 10:06 AM
LEO's should be subject to the same laws of any other person.

The can carry when on duty, need to obtain proper CCW for off-duty carry and be restricted from carrying in locations where regular CCW is restricted.

jaymz
04-13-2011, 4:12 PM
Their stadium, their rules. Don't like the rule, don't go.

I spell incorrectly on purpose to spot the know it all nerdy types that should of learned the pen is mightier than the sword in grammar class.

It's not about being a nerdy know it all (for me anyway). It's annoying to read something on a site where I expect to be in the company of other adults, but then I see something that looks as if it was written by a 5 year old with a learning disability. We don't need to learn about the pen being mightier than the sword, (it isn't always by the way), you need to learn how to not make yourself look poorly educated.

resident-shooter
04-13-2011, 4:30 PM
I say let everyone carry their arms to the stadium.

Excelsior
04-14-2011, 11:59 AM
LEO's should be subject to the same laws of any other person.

The can carry when on duty, need to obtain proper CCW for off-duty carry and be restricted from carrying in locations where regular CCW is restricted.
I totally agree...

Excelsior
04-14-2011, 12:03 PM
...It's not about being a nerdy know it all (for me anyway). It's annoying to read something on a site where I expect to be in the company of other adults, but then I see something that looks as if it was written by a 5 year old with a learning disability. We don't need to learn about the pen being mightier than the sword, (it isn't always by the way), you need to learn how to not make yourself look poorly educated.

Yeah but at the same time, mangled grammar and misspelled words are often indicators of someone who is not up to discussing/defending whatever it is they posted...

Excelsior
04-14-2011, 12:06 PM
Their stadium, their rules. Don't like the rule, don't go...


Actually when Walter O'Malley received the 300+ acres of Chavez Ravine, he did so with a rather lenghtly conditional use permit. It's not always "their rules" -- it's often the City of Los Angeles' rules...

Shutuploser
04-16-2011, 11:16 PM
Theres nothing like being an LEO with a gun having unarmed untrained security guard stop you from going into Staples, or Doyers stadium. Then you have to lock your gun in the car in a shady part of town. Your kids juiceboxes get tossed in the trash by security. My wife purse is searched. Kids get wanded. You find your seat and notice the gang member next to you managed to smuggle a gallon sized Jack Daniels bottle from Costco.

Lone_Gunman
04-17-2011, 1:48 AM
Nope. Not 'till CCWers can too. Oh, and we need shall issue CCW too.

hill billy
04-17-2011, 6:30 PM
The Brady trolls are becoming more and more obvious. I look forward to the day this state goes shall issue so the people who claim to be on our side can stop their crowing about how they think it should be.

bubbapug1
04-18-2011, 7:51 AM
The dodgers crowd is a reflection of the community in the area of the stadium.

Cops off duty should be allowed to carry anywhere to protect the public.

Violence is a part of life, but to be a giants fan at a Dodgers game is almost an overt act to promote violence, not that its correct, but its part of the reality of LA and to some extent, America. Our collective culture has degraded to almost a thug mentality due to the dumbing down of the population by various forces, i.e. media, poverty, lack of parental oversight, etc.

The best way to combat this would be to have more armed guards at the games and survailance cameras, but that cash is being spent on the divorce.

The Dodgers at one time were the class act of the national league, now they are slipping into the gutter due to poor management. Ditto for the country.

Its only going to get worse...arm up.

Excelsior
04-18-2011, 12:14 PM
The dodgers crowd is a reflection of the community in the area of the stadium.

Cops off duty should be allowed to carry anywhere to protect the public.

Violence is a part of life, but to be a giants fan at a Dodgers game is almost an overt act to promote violence, not that its correct, but its part of the reality of LA and to some extent, America. Our collective culture has degraded to almost a thug mentality due to the dumbing down of the population by various forces, i.e. media, poverty, lack of parental oversight, etc.

The best way to combat this would be to have more armed guards at the games and survailance cameras, but that cash is being spent on the divorce.

The Dodgers at one time were the class act of the national league, now they are slipping into the gutter due to poor management. Ditto for the country.

Its only going to get worse...arm up.
There are a HUGE number of LEOs -- both LAPD and LASO at every Dodger game. It's easy money and the LEOs get to be seen by thousands. It's a head trip. They also have plenty of private armed guards as well.

Just down the hill at a far more dangerous venue (LA Coliseum) there doesn't seem to be nearly the LEO presence.

Dodger Stadium isn't what it was like during the O'Malley regime but it's nothing to be afraid of.

Excelsior
04-18-2011, 12:21 PM
Theres nothing like being an LEO with a gun having unarmed untrained security guard stop you from going into Staples, or Doyers stadium. Then you have to lock your gun in the car in a shady part of town. Your kids juiceboxes get tossed in the trash by security. My wife purse is searched. Kids get wanded. You find your seat and notice the gang member next to you managed to smuggle a gallon sized Jack Daniels bottle from Costco.
That's one thing I love about Dodger Stadium -- you can bring in your own food. I have a bag (sort of like a range bag) that is the largest allowed by Dodger Stadium. I can stash a large Subway, a few half-frozen bottles of water and Diet Coke, a big bag of peanuts and a large Hershey with almonds, no problem. No $16.00 beers for me! They barely look into the bag when I open it for inspection.

otteray
04-18-2011, 8:19 PM
El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río de Porciúncula* actually. :rolleyes:

*The Town of Our Lady the Queen of the Angels on the Porciúncula River
Say who???
I was born there in 1950 and I still say it just like Robert Mitchum did, "Las Anguhlees."
Chavez Ravine used to be safe for families. we never even thought about gangs back when Koufax, Drysdale, Howard and all the other great baseball heroes played there.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510K3QcRgCL._SS500_.jpg

its mcgavin son
04-19-2011, 10:12 AM
I don't get what's so difficult about this situation? The Dodgers management should model their stadium security after the Angels' -- more professional security, Anaheim PD chokepoints instead of LADOT (lol)..

It's bad enough the "Doyers" are a minor league team, incapable of any future championship.. Los Angeles should just sell the franchise.

pdugan6
04-19-2011, 10:17 AM
LEO and CCW should be able to carry anywhere.

bluestaterebel
04-19-2011, 3:32 PM
I understand when people advocate for more people to be allowed to carry concealed but not for less people, especially LEOs.

Excelsior
04-20-2011, 8:37 PM
Financial control of LA Dodgers is taken over by Major League Baseball

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/04/la-dodgers-taken-over-by-major-league-baseball-.html?lanow

Excelsior
04-20-2011, 8:45 PM
Say who???
I was born there in 1950 and I still say it just like Robert Mitchum did, "Las Anguhlees."
Chavez Ravine used to be safe for families. we never even thought about gangs back when Koufax, Drysdale, Howard and all the other great baseball heroes played there.

Newbie... :rolleyes:

Robert Mitchum wasn't a local either.

Says who? Los Pobladores de Los Angeles.

oni.dori
04-21-2011, 12:14 AM
The Brady trolls are becoming more and more obvious. I look forward to the day this state goes shall issue so the people who claim to be on our side can stop their crowing about how they think it should be.

I take it you had someone parrticular in mind when you wrote this.