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View Full Version : AR Pistol Angles Forward Grip CA legal?


tagacali
04-07-2011, 10:47 PM
I know the vertical grip is not legal but I'm not sure if the angled forward grip would be included as well. Also, what other things that are not legal for having an AR Pistol. Of course, it needs to have BB and a 10 rd mag.

JPZ
04-07-2011, 11:01 PM
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

afg is grey area many would rather not push in to, another option is something like the Larue Hand stop

djleisure
04-07-2011, 11:04 PM
AFG is still in debate on the state level, but it's cleared on the federal level (search BATF and AFG on Google.) I'm comfortable with it on my AR pistol, but some aren't... Only other thing I can think of that has recently been debated is that you should usena pistol buffer tube (Spikes, RRA, GSE, et al) and not a regular (carbine, A2, et al) buffer tube. The use of the latter woul most likely be in "constructive possession" territory.

Here's mine with an AFG and GSE buffer tube.

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/dj_leisure/AR%20pistol/IMG_9152.jpg

djleisure
04-07-2011, 11:07 PM
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

afg is grey area many would rather not push in to, another option is something like the Larue Hand stop

True! Here's an AK pistol with the KAC handstop for the, uh, less adventurous? :)

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/dj_leisure/IMG_8387.jpg

Mssr. Eleganté
04-07-2011, 11:07 PM
I believe that the second pistol grip on a handgun only has to be "at an angle to the bore" in order to trigger NFA "Any Other Weapon" status. So vertical and angled grips are seen as the same. Grips that are parallel to the bore, like handguards, don't trigger AOW status.

leelaw
04-07-2011, 11:51 PM
I believe that the second pistol grip on a handgun only has to be "at an angle to the bore" in order to trigger NFA "Any Other Weapon" status. So vertical and angled grips are seen as the same. Grips that are parallel to the bore, like handguards, don't trigger AOW status.

cite this verbiage?

tagacali
04-07-2011, 11:51 PM
I will have an RRA LAR 15 pistol, would I be able to remove & change the buffer tube with a padded type?

tagacali
04-07-2011, 11:57 PM
To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must make an appropriate application on ATF Form 1, “Application to Make and Register a Firearm.” The applicant must submit the completed form, along with a fingerprint card bearing the applicant’s fingerprints; a photograph; and $200.00. The application will be reviewed by the NFA Branch. If the applicant is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law, and possession of an “AOW” is not prohibited in the applicant’s State of residence, the form will be approved. Only then may the person add a vertical fore grip to the designated handgun.

A person may also send the handgun to a person licensed to manufacture NFA weapons. The manufacturer will install the fore grip on the firearm and register the firearm on an ATF Form 2. The manufacturer can then transfer the firearm back to the individual on an ATF Form 4, which results in a $5.00 transfer tax. If the manufacturer is out of State, the NFA Branch will need a clarification letter submitted with the ATF Form 4 so that the NFA Branch Examiner will know the circumstances of the transfer. Questions can be directed to the NFA Branch or the Firearms Technology Branch. <----Is this also applicable to CA?

djleisure
04-08-2011, 12:15 AM
To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must make an appropriate application on ATF Form 1, “Application to Make and Register a Firearm.” [snip]
Sounds good! Now all ya gotta do is define "vertical fore grip" and we're all set! ;) (Just pointing out the fact that the law is NOT straight forward... Not picking on you.)

djleisure
04-08-2011, 12:16 AM
I will have an RRA LAR 15 pistol, would I be able to remove & change the buffer tube with a padded type?
Yes. You probably don't need to remove it though, just slide the padding over it.

axhoaxho
04-08-2011, 12:20 AM
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

afg is grey area many would rather not push in to, another option is something like the Larue Hand stop

Thanks, I didn't know about the Larue Hand Stop, and it looked interesting.

Does that mean it is cleared to use on a featureless build, both in Federal and CA State level? Just want to confirm because I might not mind to order one to try.

Thanks again.

http://www.laruetactical.com/pics/HandStopandIndexClipCombo/HandPosition_small.jpg

MrPlink
04-08-2011, 2:31 AM
for those who prefer brevity and and will keep posting:

YES, AFG is 100% LEGAL ON PISTOLS! THE ATF ALREADY SAID SO!

Fate
04-08-2011, 8:07 PM
Thanks, I didn't know about the Larue Hand Stop, and it looked interesting.

Does that mean it is cleared to use on a featureless build, both in Federal and CA State level? Just want to confirm because I might not mind to order one to try.

Thanks again.

http://www.laruetactical.com/pics/HandStopandIndexClipCombo/HandPosition_small.jpg
Yes, handstops are legal on featureless rifles. They are specifically listed as items that cannot be considered a grip in the DOJ rulemaking documents which nailed down the exact language of the penal code definition of a forward pistol grip.

axhoaxho
04-08-2011, 8:49 PM
Yes, handstops are legal on featureless rifles. They are specifically listed as items that cannot be considered a grip in the DOJ rulemaking documents which nailed down the exact language of the penal code definition of a forward pistol grip.

Thanks a lot!

tagacali
04-08-2011, 9:22 PM
Thanks

dieselpower
04-08-2011, 9:40 PM
just going to toss this out....

any firearm not a LONGARM designed or REDESIGNED to be shot with two hands is an AOW and requires BATFE approval.

so its not just a VFG that = an AOW. Its in the way it was designed or redesigned to be fired. There is a big difference between a barrel shroud, a handguard and a GRIP forward of the primary grip.

------------------------- <- thats a 10 foot pole and thats as close as I would get to an AR15 pistol with a AFG on it without a form1 AOW stamp backing it up. Yes I have read the ATF letter on the AFG. You really gonna trust the ATF not to go back on a ruling when that ruling has nothing to do with AOW form 1 stamp taxes.

zfields
04-09-2011, 8:14 AM
so......im not allowed to shot my handguns with two hands anymore? news to me.

FiveSeven
04-09-2011, 8:21 AM
True! Here's an AK pistol with the KAC handstop for the, uh, less adventurous? :)

I could be wrong but doesn't the laws states "Detachable magazine" when it comes to a pistol?
If it does than No, since it's a fixed magazine.