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sao
04-07-2011, 11:11 PM
Howdy,

I have three questions revolving around keeping a unloaded gun in a locked container (http://www.gunvault.com/handgun-safes/nano-vault-300.html) with loaded magazines in the same container. I would store this container under my car seat. From what I gathered in other threads, the above is legal to do. Now for my questions.

First, if pulled over and searched (say he pc'ed me) and the cop finds my locked container in my car, do I have to open that container? If I denied the search and he pulled PC, not much I can do, can I refuse to open my locked container?

Second, can I leave my gun, in its locked container in my car? While I go to work for the day? 7-11? Dinner? or does it have to stay with me?

Lastly, If yes to number two, the mirovaults come with a cable so I can secure it do objects. Can I secure my locked container with my gun and loaded magazines to my car? or does it then become part of my car?

PS: Any links to Penal Code would be greatly appreciated as I'd like to have a copys on me when I start traveling with this set up.

Thanks in advance!
Sao

Yugo
04-07-2011, 11:15 PM
Great question. :popcorn:

Librarian
04-08-2011, 12:18 AM
Howdy,

First, if pulled over and searched (say he pc'ed me) and the cop finds my locked container in my car, do I have to open that container? If I denied the search and he pulled PC, not much I can do, can I refuse to open my locked container?

Second, can I leave my gun, in its locked container in my car? While I go to work for the day? 7-11? Dinner? or does it have to stay with me?

Lastly, If yes to number two, the mirovaults come with a cable so I can secure it do objects. Can I secure my locked container with my gun and loaded magazines to my car? or does it then become part of my car?


First - yes, you can refuse. I can't predict how that will go.

Second - yes to all those. You need not keep it with you.

Third - yes, you can cable-lock the case to the car. There is some expressed concern here about 'permanent' attachments, but there's no PC or case law on it.

The PC you are looking for is PC 12026.1 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.1.html).

sao
04-08-2011, 9:11 AM
Thanks librarian, that leads me to a follow up question. Because the penal code doesn't mention or prohibit magazines, loaded or unloaded, or where they are kept it, it makes it legal to keep them loaded in the same locked container as the pistol? Ie: if it doesn't say you cant make a u-turn, you can. Right?

VAReact
04-08-2011, 9:18 AM
You may keep loaded magazines in the same locked container as the handgun, as long as they are not in a position to be fired (i.e in the magwell), and as long as a round isn't chambered in the handgun itself

Decoligny
04-08-2011, 9:18 AM
The following is from the CHP FAQ Website:

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html

I will be traveling to California and want to carry my weapon. I currently have a concealed weapon permit. How can I legally transport my weapon while driving through the state?
California law does not recognize concealed weapon permits from other states; therefore, they would not be held valid. If you wish to transport a handgun during your California visit, it should be carried unloaded in a locked container. In the absence of a suitable container, you may secure the unloaded handgun in the locked trunk of a passenger car. Ammunition may be kept in the same container or trunk, but the handgun must remain unloaded with no rounds in the cylinder and no loaded magazines in the magazine well.

CalBear
04-08-2011, 9:26 AM
You may keep loaded magazines in the same locked container as the handgun, as long as they are not in a position to be fired (i.e in the magwell), and as long as a round isn't chambered in the handgun itself
Eh? Not true. Just because 12026.1 doesn't explicitly say "unloaded," do not assume the firearm can be loaded. Other sections of the penal code, namely 12031, still apply:

(a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when
he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a
prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

For purposes of a handgun, loaded means a loaded magazine attached to the magwell. Notice how UOCers always have their mags in belt holsters. At most, they'll have an unloaded mag in the firearm.

Unless a person has a 12050 CCW, 12031 applies.

And remember, the unconstitutional 12031(e) is in effect in CA:

(e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for
the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized
to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory.
Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to
this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of
this section.

In other words, if you don't want the officer checking if your weapons are unloaded, don't let him know you have weapons in the first place. If the officer knows you have weapons, 12031(e) lets him verify that they are unloaded.

Librarian
04-08-2011, 9:57 AM
Originally Posted by VAReact
You may keep loaded magazines in the same locked container as the handgun, as long as they are not in a position to be fired (i.e in the magwell), and as long as a round isn't chambered in the handgun itself
Eh? Not true. Just because 12026.1 doesn't explicitly say "unloaded," do not assume the firearm can be loaded.

I think you mis-read - Originally Posted by VAReact
You may keep loaded magazines in the same locked container as the handgun,
as long as they are not in a position to be fired (i.e in the magwell),
and as long as a round isn't chambered in the handgun itself

CalBear
04-08-2011, 10:36 AM
You are right. Sorry I misread. The 12031(e) info is still worth reading though.

C&Rtrader
04-08-2011, 11:22 AM
Librarian-

I recall something about not being allowed to have a handgun as described above in the parking lot of a post office? It's considered part of the building and possession is banned.

If that is correct, are there any other exclusions to LCC in a car?

Thanks

cruising7388
04-08-2011, 1:04 PM
Librarian-

I recall something about not being allowed to have a handgun as described above in the parking lot of a post office? It's considered part of the building and possession is banned.

If that is correct, are there any other exclusions to LCC in a car?

Thanks

Correct. You can't even legally drive into the parking lot of a post office, which has always made me wonder how an FFL can ever send or receive a firearm at a postal facility. I've also wondered how far the jurisdiction is of the the contract mini post offices inside of shops that you see now and then in rural areas.

What cracks me up the most is that the reference to going postal has its origin in the behavior of post office employees, not post office customers.

paul0660
04-08-2011, 1:10 PM
Correct. You can't even legally drive into the parking lot of a post office, which has always made me wonder how an FFL can ever send or receive a firearm at a postal facility. I've also wondered how far the jurisdiction is of the the contract mini post offices inside of shops that you see now and then in rural areas.

What cracks me up the most is that the reference to going postal has its origin in the behavior of post office employees, not post office customers.

You can't possess in the parking lot, OR post office, if it is PROMINATELY posted near the entrance.

Shipping firearms is an official use of the post office, and the parking lot, and is specifically allowed.

C&Rtrader
04-08-2011, 2:25 PM
You can't possess in the parking lot, OR post office, if it is PROMINATELY posted near the entrance.
.


I think it is federal law and does not need to be posted? anyone?

Librarian
04-08-2011, 5:56 PM
Librarian-

If that is correct, are there any other exclusions to LCC in a car?

Thanks
College and university property, via PC 626.9 (h) and (i).

I find it also plausible that K-12 property is restricted, but it's also plausible that LUCC as an exception to the 1000 foot zone also excepts k-12 property. (What that means is: I think the law as written is ambiguous and there is no clarifying case law to make me happy, so I, myself, will not bring firearms onto k-12 property. I might be too risk-averse in this case.)

C&Rtrader
04-08-2011, 10:42 PM
College and university property, via PC 626.9 (h) and (i).

I find it also plausible that K-12 property is restricted, but it's also plausible that LUCC as an exception to the 1000 foot zone also excepts k-12 property. (What that means is: I think the law as written is ambiguous and there is no clarifying case law to make me happy, so I, myself, will not bring firearms onto k-12 property. I might be too risk-averse in this case.)

since i don't have kids i cant say I frequent those areas but thanks for the heads up!

Decoligny
04-11-2011, 12:31 PM
I think it is federal law and does not need to be posted? anyone?

The code does indeed need to be posted.

Title 39 CFR 232.1
(a) Applicability. This section applies to all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service, to all tenant agencies, and to all persons entering in or on such property. This section shall be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property.

Tripper
04-11-2011, 12:41 PM
My local post office has only a sign that states, armed robbery of a post office is xxxxxyyyyy
I dont remember the exact words and didn't want to appear suspicious at the time so didn't take a picture, next time I'll try though, but otherwise it doesn't have a no guns sign