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NorCalK9.com
04-07-2011, 7:55 PM
Ok so i have an ar15 with only 40 rounds down th barrel im onto it over 1500 bucks thinking of trading it for another ak i just bought one 3 days ago and love the ak anyways what ak types are good and which are junk they all seem the same to me.

mrvash
04-07-2011, 7:58 PM
I know it's your decision and you do what you wish, but if you already have an AK why would you trade your AR for another one?

To answer you question, for that said value of your AR you can expect a good quality one, perhaps an Arsenal or a converted Saiga. Regardless of what you get, just make sure the person your trading adds cash on top, I haven't seen an AK that is worth $1,500 yet.

Edit: Or you can sell your AR for as much as you can get for it, then take the money and purchase an AK.

dieselpower
04-07-2011, 7:59 PM
you should get 3 AKs for one AR15. Its also a very bad idea.

tonelar
04-07-2011, 8:02 PM
Get a VZ58 or Golani.
Theyre NICE.

Tallestsniper
04-07-2011, 8:05 PM
No one gonna jump on this one? Ok, ill be the first. Sure, friend, ill trade you an ak for your ar. :D

rattlesnake_nm
04-07-2011, 8:08 PM
You can buy 4 wasrs for $1200. Sell Your AR for $1200 and buy 3 or 4 wasrs.

rattlesnake_nm
04-07-2011, 8:09 PM
Get a VZ58 or Golani.
Theyre NICE.

I love the vz58. The only reason I like gas piston ar15s.

NorCalK9.com
04-07-2011, 8:12 PM
No one gonna jump on this one? Ok, ill be the first. Sure, friend, ill trade you an ak for your ar. :D

lol nah im npt talking straight across lol what im trying to figure out is what ak is a true shtf rifle and which ones are just shooters as fpr the one i hqve its a pistol and cant hqve a stock i love the power of it and since i have bolt rifles long range qccuracy aint what im after wih such a small round.

rattlesnake_nm
04-07-2011, 8:33 PM
lol nah im npt talking straight across lol what im trying to figure out is what ak is a true shtf rifle and which ones are just shooters as fpr the one i hqve its a pistol and cant hqve a stock i love the power of it and since i have bolt rifles long range qccuracy aint what im after wih such a small round.


Have multiple aks and ars, if possible.

pyro3k2
04-07-2011, 9:08 PM
lol nah im npt talking straight across lol what im trying to figure out is what ak is a true shtf rifle and which ones are just shooters as fpr the one i hqve its a pistol and cant hqve a stock i love the power of it and since i have bolt rifles long range qccuracy aint what im after wih such a small round.

any foreign made AK is a SHTF rifle and as far as which ones are just shooters...any foreign made AK. To make it a fair trade it had better be a Krebs with some upgrades or something very special like yugo M76.

Arisaka
04-07-2011, 9:14 PM
build an AK. keep the AR. or sell your expensive AR And build an AR and an AK? I'm in my AR and AK for less than $1500...??

NorCalK9.com
04-08-2011, 7:36 AM
build an AK. keep the AR. or sell your expensive AR And build an AR and an AK? I'm in my AR and AK for less than $1500...??

So im of the understanding that cheap ar's are for plinking only not shtf rifles as for ak's i have shot alot of them but do not understand them nough to build one also dont wanna be the guy in the corner at the party twiddling my thumbs

762.DEFENSE
04-08-2011, 7:44 AM
you should get 3 AKs for one AR15. Its also a very bad idea.

Totally agree. :thumbsup:

NorCalK9.com
04-08-2011, 8:09 AM
Totally agree. :thumbsup:

if thats the case i will trade for 2 aks lol i have it up for 1050 out of all the ars ive had this is the most accurate due to the yhm bull barrel but like i said after now owning the ak pistol theres no way i want to use the ar for shtf rifle. I do still love the ar for other reasons. Also as a kid i didnt have alot of toys so im making up for it now ar is like a hot wheel ak is a tonka truck lol just kidding

Reductio
04-08-2011, 8:34 AM
Keep the AR.... you can't decide long-term reliability off 2 boxes of ammo.

21SF
04-08-2011, 8:35 AM
HAHAHA what a .......

dieselpower
04-08-2011, 8:59 AM
if thats the case i will trade for 2 aks lol i have it up for 1050 out of all the ars ive had this is the most accurate due to the yhm bull barrel but like i said after now owning the ak pistol theres no way i want to use the ar for shtf rifle. I do still love the ar for other reasons. Also as a kid i didn't have alot of toys so im making up for it now ar is like a hot wheel ak is a tonka truck lol just kidding

Why would you not want an AR15 for a SHTF rifle? This is like saying I would not use my Toyota Land cruiser for a SHTF 4X4, I want to use my H2.

In what SHTF situation can you imagine where an AK47 is going to out preform an AR15? There isn't one. Not a single plausible situation points to an AK47 over an AR15.

The AR is a billion times more versatile, a million times more mission equip-able, 223 ammo is thousands of time more plentiful, the AR platform is hundreds of times easier to find gear for, the AR is dozens of times more accurate, and the AR weighs less fully loaded down.

The ignorant people want to compare the round an AK is FORCED to use, against one of a HUNDRED different rounds an AR15 can be configured to fire.

You want to compare round knock down power...let me slap on my .450 thumper upper then we will compare rounds...you want to compare range...let me slap on my 6.5 upper..oh you want to compare weight, let me slap on my 5.56 LW upper.

There is no situation where an AK outperforms a properly maintained AR...none. Its Hollywood fantasy at best, its Russian envy at worse. By worse I mean American weapon engineers have spent the better half of a CENTURY refining a weapon platform into the best on a battle field, yet people want to believe a weapon that hasn't changed in over 35 years is better...its ignorant.

The US Military uses 5.56 due to budget restraints...you as a civilian are not. You can not compare the 7.62x39 vs the 5.56x45 and say its a AK vs AR debate. You can not compare a Saiga reliable firearm with a Vulcan AR15 clone and say its a accurate comparison. You can not use a 1960s AK and use a M16A1 from 1960s as a reference tool on current reliabilities and performance.

You want to play Ivan with your AK, great I am all for that. Its fine, there is nothing wrong with that. Please don't try to tell us its a better weapon... there is truly no comparison in the real world.

Your 1964 Ferrari is great...its no match for a 2011 Cadillac CTS, or even a 2011 Mustang 5.0. The Ferrari is merely for show...as is the 1960s AK47 design.

Rekrab
04-08-2011, 9:08 AM
I have to say, keep the AR, save some cash and build an AK. You'll be happier for it.

I'm not a huge fan of AR-15s, but there's certainly nothing wrong with them. Unless you just hate your AR-15, don't sell it.

Bluhdow!
04-08-2011, 9:38 AM
lol nah im npt talking straight across lol what im trying to figure out is what ak is a true shtf rifle and which ones are just shooters as fpr the one i hqve its a pistol and cant hqve a stock i love the power of it and since i have bolt rifles long range qccuracy aint what im after wih such a small round.

I can't read anything you write. It's actually pretty rare that type is illegible, so nice work!

With that kind of budget you can look at some of the milled Arsenal AKs. They have some great ones out there. But personally, I'd buy an SGL at around $800 and use the rest for ammo/add-ons.

NorCalK9.com
04-08-2011, 9:42 AM
Why would you not want an AR15 for a SHTF rifle? This is like saying I would not use my Toyota Land cruiser for a SHTF 4X4, I want to use my H2.

In what SHTF situation can you imagine where an AK47 is going to out preform an AR15? There isn't one. Not a single plausible situation points to an AK47 over an AR15.

The AR is a billion times more versatile, a million times more mission equip-able, 223 ammo is thousands of time more plentiful, the AR platform is hundreds of times easier to find gear for, the AR is dozens of times more accurate, and the AR weighs less fully loaded down.

The ignorant people want to compare the round an AK is FORCED to use, against one of a HUNDRED different rounds an AR15 can be configured to fire.

You want to compare round knock down power...let me slap on my .450 thumper upper then we will compare rounds...you want to compare range...let me slap on my 6.5 upper..oh you want to compare weight, let me slap on my 5.56 LW upper.

There is no situation where an AK outperforms a properly maintained AR...none. Its Hollywood fantasy at best, its Russian envy at worse. By worse I mean American weapon engineers have spent the better half of a CENTURY refining a weapon platform into the best on a battle field, yet people want to believe a weapon that hasn't changed in over 35 years is better...its ignorant.

The US Military uses 5.56 due to budget restraints...you as a civilian are not. You can not compare the 7.62x39 vs the 5.56x45 and say its a AK vs AR debate. You can not compare a Saiga reliable firearm with a Vulcan AR15 clone and say its a accurate comparison. You can not use a 1960s AK and use a M16A1 from 1960s as a reference tool on current reliabilities and performance.

You want to play Ivan with your AK, great I am all for that. Its fine, there is nothing wrong with that. Please don't try to tell us its a better weapon... there is truly no comparison in the real world.

Your 1964 Ferrari is great...its no match for a 2011 Cadillac CTS, or even a 2011 Mustang 5.0. The Ferrari is merely for show...as is the 1960s AK47 design.

DieselPower I truly appreciate your passion for the ar platform. Thats not what I'm asking for here. This argument has been played out over and over again I'm no expert so I'm going with what I fell comftorable with bud. As for the other caliber rounds you mentioned have you looked at the prices on those rounds? I have i thought about the socom round until I saw the price tag yes they out perform the 763x39 in distance but not enough so for what your paying for the round hell you may as well buy a 338 lapua or barrett 416 now if you personally like a 556 thats cool I love it for range n varmint shooting everything newr aint better just cause its newer I had a 73 chevy custom20 w 454 400 turbo tranny salpshift 4x4 that i personally destroyed and towed out h2 n h3 hummers I appreciate the ar for what it is but its not my favorite maybe if i got my hands on one of your fine rifles My mind may be different but as of now I CHOOSE to have an AK47 rather than an ar15 If thats a mistake it is my mistake to make. I'm not trying to be rude I truly appreciate your candor on this subject but since you have so much knowledge since I'm not going to change my mind right now If you some how got seperated from your AR what AK would you pick up? And I know my AR is worth 3 ak's in price I am not selling or trading it for 1 ak and I'm not saying I'm not going to build another ar even better than this one but rite now ak is what I wan't Like I said in previous post I didn't have alot of toys as a kid now I'm 30 and since my business success I like my toys now that I have the money to afford them. We all live and learn I will learn what is best for me in the end just how those hummers learned my 73 was superior. LOL that was a joke. Thank you again DieselPower.

dieselpower
04-08-2011, 11:49 AM
DieselPower I truly appreciate your passion for the ar platform. Thats not what I'm asking for here. This argument has been played out over and over again I'm no expert so I'm going with what I fell comftorable with bud. As for the other caliber rounds you mentioned have you looked at the prices on those rounds? I have i thought about the socom round until I saw the price tag yes they out perform the 763x39 in distance but not enough so for what your paying for the round hell you may as well buy a 338 lapua or barrett 416 now if you personally like a 556 thats cool I love it for range n varmint shooting everything newr aint better just cause its newer I had a 73 chevy custom20 w 454 400 turbo tranny salpshift 4x4 that i personally destroyed and towed out h2 n h3 hummers I appreciate the ar for what it is but its not my favorite maybe if i got my hands on one of your fine rifles My mind may be different but as of now I CHOOSE to have an AK47 rather than an ar15 If thats a mistake it is my mistake to make. I'm not trying to be rude I truly appreciate your candor on this subject but since you have so much knowledge since I'm not going to change my mind right now If you some how got seperated from your AR what AK would you pick up? And I know my AR is worth 3 ak's in price I am not selling or trading it for 1 ak and I'm not saying I'm not going to build another ar even better than this one but rite now ak is what I wan't Like I said in previous post I didn't have alot of toys as a kid now I'm 30 and since my business success I like my toys now that I have the money to afford them. We all live and learn I will learn what is best for me in the end just how those hummers learned my 73 was superior. LOL that was a joke. Thank you again DieselPower.

Ok so now you are saying what? The AK is a better weapon why?

1) For you.... So my M91/30 is better for me, is my Mosin Nagant now a better SHTF rifle? No. Its just my weapon of choice. Posting that the M91/30 is the better SHTF rifle is ignorant isn't it.

2) 7.62x39 is cheaper than 5.56x45. So cost is now a matter when all stores are closed? Or are you saying its easier to horde ammo before the EOTWAWKI? In either case the ammo you have is the ammo you have. Cheaper to train? Well .223 and 7.62x39 are like pennies apart.

I agree, every person has the right to use whatever weapon system they feel best for them.

I do not agree that every persons choice is the best. My neighbor feels a squirt gun filled with bleach is the best SHTF weapon...that doesn't make him right.

There is no category where an AK patterned weapon is better than an AR patterned weapon when the situation is SHTF.

I am sure your training with an AK will do you fine if it ever happens..the same as my neighbor's choice. :cool2:

NorCalK9.com
04-08-2011, 12:08 PM
Ok so now you are saying what? The AK is a better weapon why?

1) For you.... So my M91/30 is better for me, is my Mosin Nagant now a better SHTF rifle? No. Its just my weapon of choice. Posting that the M91/30 is the better SHTF rifle is ignorant isn't it.

2) 7.62x39 is cheaper than 5.56x45. So cost is now a matter when all stores are closed? Or are you saying its easier to horde ammo before the EOTWAWKI? In either case the ammo you have is the ammo you have. Cheaper to train? Well .223 and 7.62x39 are like pennies apart.

I agree, every person has the right to use whatever weapon system they feel best for them.

I do not agree that every persons choice is the best. My neighbor feels a squirt gun filled with bleach is the best SHTF weapon...that doesn't make him right.

There is no category where an AK patterned weapon is better than an AR patterned weapon when the situation is SHTF.

I am sure your training with an AK will do you fine if it ever happens..the same as my neighbor's choice. :cool2:

DieselPower This thread isnt about what is better! I don't give two hoots of others opinion on the matter I wan't a rifle That can be thru hell and back and still shoot I personally never had an ar jam on me but ive seen at the range guys taking 5 mins to clear their ar maybe their ar was a crap build but since I do business with law enforcement as well as military selling dogs I know one thing that about 3 out of 10 hate their M4's! But again your neighbors squirt gun your AR or my AK its about choice. And again this post isnt asking what gun is better between ar or ak its asking what ak is better vs other ak's or variants. So again if you have any knowledge as to which ak is preferrable to you or a friend I'd love to know but do not wan't to debate about which is better Also if youd like to buy it I will give you a special deal since you like them so much!!!!!

NorCalK9.com
04-08-2011, 12:37 PM
So I have an offer for a VZ58 I've had a couple tell me to look for one of those.

MrPlink
04-08-2011, 1:55 PM
:TFH:

drewman
04-08-2011, 2:23 PM
I can't read anything you write. It's actually pretty rare that type is illegible, so nice work!

With that kind of budget you can look at some of the milled Arsenal AKs. They have some great ones out there. But personally, I'd buy an SGL at around $800 and use the rest for ammo/add-ons.

I would do as stated above and get a SGL under $800.00.
They are made in Russia on Russian equipment.

Arisaka
04-08-2011, 2:28 PM
Seriously, ANY rifle will have you in better shape during SHTF than no rifle (which is what the majority of people will have).. AR vs. AK? I'm still saying have both. Our military uses AR's in SHTF situations, and has for a long time. Many parts of the world are in perpetual SHTF, and those AK's seem to be working out. I can't see overthinking this too much. Armed man>unarmed man when there is no law.

missiontrails
04-08-2011, 2:36 PM
DieselPower This thread isnt about what is better! I don't give two hoots of others opinion on the matter I wan't a rifle That can be thru hell and back and still shoot I personally never had an ar jam on me but ive seen at the range guys taking 5 mins to clear their ar maybe their ar was a crap build but since I do business with law enforcement as well as military selling dogs I know one thing that about 3 out of 10 hate their M4's! But again your neighbors squirt gun your AR or my AK its about choice. And again this post isnt asking what gun is better between ar or ak its asking what ak is better vs other ak's or variants. So again if you have any knowledge as to which ak is preferrable to you or a friend I'd love to know but do not wan't to debate about which is better Also if youd like to buy it I will give you a special deal since you like them so much!!!!!

Watch this, then change your decision.. If you notice, they used a M16 here, with a 20" barrel, government profile.... a 16" barrel rifle would be even less flexy, not that the M16 had flex..... The AK barrel looks like a wet noodle, which explains its 6MOA accuracy. Do you want the AK because it looks more evil? I side with Diesel on this... I do feel that AK's are damn reliable, hence my signature line...... but that's it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BpI3xD6h0

arsilva32
04-08-2011, 2:47 PM
here you go man:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct894.aspx
or check out the ak74 line
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct890.aspx
my fav:http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct913.aspx

ZX-10R
04-08-2011, 2:50 PM
Keep the AR...

You will realize having one or more semis is not a bad thing. I too like AK patterns more than my AR but I have too much into my DDM4 to sell it for more AK patterns.

Get a:
YUGO
BULGY
ROMY
Golani
VEPR
etc.

Lots of people on this site will say build and that contrary to what you will see on AK type rifle forums.

I should have got a Yugo when I was in WA likewise with a Golani. That would be my first choice. So cheap back then.

rattlesnake_nm
04-08-2011, 2:54 PM
I don't want to get into the middle of this, but want to include a point. They are totally different platforms. For certain work the ak is a better option. Alot of guys that work for private contractors in the middle east use aks. Most of them are cut down really short, and used in vehicles when traveling in a combat zone. It is common to see aks in the hands of american contractors on the daily in Baghdad.

missiontrails
04-08-2011, 2:56 PM
you should get 3 AKs for one AR15. Its also a very bad idea.

LOL, If he gets 3 WASR's, his chances are good that he will get ONE with a straight (non-canted) front sight:)

valleyrat
04-08-2011, 3:03 PM
AR people are so sensitive lol. Ill say this, it took 50 years to make the AR a decent weapon. The AK has been a decent weapon from the get go. Both are antiquated IMO.

NorCalK9.com
04-08-2011, 3:26 PM
AR people are so sensitive lol. Ill say this, it took 50 years to make the AR a decent weapon. The AK has been a decent weapon from the get go. Both are antiquated IMO.

+1 for valleyrat lol

missiontrails
04-08-2011, 3:34 PM
+1 for valleyrat lol

So now that the AR "IS" that reliable weapon that evolved over 50 years...... why in the hell would you want a weapon that can barelly hit a watermelon at 100 yards? Just a question. There is no compelling reason. Yes I like AK's, but not for my main rifle..... The only reason for me to own one is for novelty purposes....... yes they kill, yes they are reliable, yes they look RETRO evil. The same reason I would own a M1 Carbine or Thompson M1 - Novelty.

Fern
04-08-2011, 3:41 PM
Do what you want. Sell it, keep it trade it. Its your money and your decision.

NorCalK9.com
04-08-2011, 3:46 PM
Heres what i invite I will take an ak throw it in mud sand water cycle it under water pick it up wet put it in more sand and pull the trigger 30x now do the same with an ar. I LIKE AR's I am not anti AR! hell a nice built AR looks way cooler than any AK ive seen yet as of right now I would feel more comftorable with an ak than an AR and once I can afford it maybe I will get me a SCAR dont tell the misses lol but for now I prefer a proven rifle that will eat up all ammo and still have knockdown power at a great price.Thanks guys for all the info and opinions and especially for the facts.

RealBarber
04-08-2011, 3:49 PM
arsenal sgl21

NorCalK9.com
04-08-2011, 3:50 PM
Do what you want. Sell it, keep it trade it. Its your money and your decision.

That is a fact! Thank you fern Now does anyone know where I can find some vz58 mags? lol

missiontrails
04-08-2011, 4:09 PM
Heres what i invite I will take an ak throw it in mud sand water cycle it under water pick it up wet put it in more sand and pull the trigger 30x now do the same with an ar. I LIKE AR's I am not anti AR! hell a nice built AR looks way cooler than any AK ive seen yet as of right now I would feel more comftorable with an ak than an AR and once I can afford it maybe I will get me a SCAR dont tell the misses lol but for now I prefer a proven rifle that will eat up all ammo and still have knockdown power at a great price.Thanks guys for all the info and opinions and especially for the facts.

Hardly what you are going to encounter during urban warefare. In my book, accuracy, VERSATILE PLATFORM, and common ammo is worth more than mud wrestling with your rifle. You are not thinking straight on this one. If the AR platform is GOOD ENOUGH for our US Military, it's good enough for Joe Civilian.

C.W.M.V.
04-08-2011, 4:18 PM
...By worse I mean American weapon engineers have spent the better half of a CENTURY refining a weapon platform into the best on a battle field, yet people want to believe a weapon that hasn't changed in over 35 years is better...its ignorant.

....

You want to play Ivan with your AK, great I am all for that. Its fine, there is nothing wrong with that. Please don't try to tell us its a better weapon... there is truly no comparison in the real world.

Your 1964 Ferrari is great...its no match for a 2011 Cadillac CTS, or even a 2011 Mustang 5.0. The Ferrari is merely for show...as is the 1960s AK47 design.

Yet that design has survived with little change at all from the original intent of the weapon system, and has needed no major redesign.

Boils down to this, AR was designed to be light over all else, and the AK to be reliable. Accuracy is great, and the ability to change out calibers is super mall ninja cool, but your $2000 dollar rifle isn't worth the lube you use in it when a sandstorm/rain/mud/snow comes along and the weapon jams. A Somali pirate issue type 3 AK from the 60's is a thousand times better weapon than a super duper AR that wont function reliably. For a bench rest shooter accuracy may be king, but for a rifleman reliability is numero uno.

I can roll with most of what you say, lots of cool features with an AR, too bad they don't mean dink. Take your lower and half dozen uppers on a 30 mile forced march with a basic load for each caliber, and Ill take my WASR/Saiga/Yugo and we shall see who comes across the line first. The rifleman's enemy is weight, with every pound of superfluous non mission essential equipment being cut to make room for more water, food, ammo etc. Doesn't leave a whole lot of room for different rifle combos :rolleyes:

And man where do you get the idea that the 16 is the best rifle in the world? Seriously misinformed bordering on ignorantly biased. It hasn't been the best since its introduction. Even the Army has recognized that its not, hence the constant line of rebuilds, modifications, and endless search for an affordable replacement.


OP Ive argued with this guy before, and now that Ive said my piece Im going to go, but know that youve opened up a can of worms here that is going to degenerate into a mix of practicle experience on the battlefield, Call of Duty commandos, and armchair soldiers arguing back and forth.

Endstate is get the rifle you like best. As far as functionality near all AK's are created equal. They've been built to nearly the same specs since the late 40's and across a myriad of countries. My WASR performs as well as My Saiga performs as well as an arsenal, the only real difference is finish. If you like pretty rifles go for something like an arsenal, while a WASR being a good all round rifle has a no frills finish.
With what your selling Id go for a milled receiver no doubt. Ive been yearning for one of the milled polish ones for a while now. All in all they seem to be great rifles.

But if its your only AR, might you consider keeping it? Even I who have lived with and despise the AR platform have an M16A1 kit that I have yet to finish. .223 is as common as .45acp here, and easier to find than x39, and its an easy rifle for the gunnery newbs to learn on, especially with the sight set up (while its not nearly as nice as the AK's in CQB).

I like having an example of such a historically significant rifle. It has been the weapon of the Infantry since Nam, and me and my father both carried the weapon in combat (A1/A2 respectively and we both love our Kalishnikov's!). It'll be nice to show to the kids what we riflemen carried way back in the day, before the US adopted an AK based design :D.

seronian
04-08-2011, 4:26 PM
one offers something the other one doesnt....i would keep it unless there is another reason you want to punt it...again this is my personal ref.

valleyrat
04-08-2011, 4:27 PM
Hardly what you are going to encounter during urban warefare. In my book, accuracy, VERSATILE PLATFORM, and common ammo is worth more than mud wrestling with your rifle. You are not thinking straight on this one. If the AR platform is GOOD ENOUGH for our US Military, it's good enough for Joe Civilian.

If you are talking urban warfare engagements will be within 100 meters or so. Either weapon in capable hands will work. Either weapon in incompetent hands = FAIL.

valleyrat
04-08-2011, 4:30 PM
So now that the AR "IS" that reliable weapon that evolved over 50 years...... why in the hell would you want a weapon that can barelly hit a watermelon at 100 yards? Just a question. There is no compelling reason. Yes I like AK's, but not for my main rifle..... The only reason for me to own one is for novelty purposes....... yes they kill, yes they are reliable, yes they look RETRO evil. The same reason I would own a M1 Carbine or Thompson M1 - Novelty.

If you are having trouble hitting a watermelon at 100 with an AK you either have a POS built by an incompetent 07 (there or oh so many), or you have lots of work to do on your own marksmanship. This statement wont be popular, but ill bet most AKs shoot better than the person pulling the trigger.

missiontrails
04-08-2011, 4:31 PM
If you like the AK so much, but like the features of the AR..... Just get a Sig 556 then...... that's basically a modern AK chambered for NATO.

missiontrails
04-08-2011, 4:32 PM
If you are having trouble hitting a watermelon at 100 with an AK you either have a POS built by an incompetent 07, or you have lots of work to do on your own marksmanship. This wont be popular, but ill bet most AKs shoot better than the person pulling the trigger.

These guys could not hit a car if it was parked in front of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BpI3xD6h0

If I am talking 100 yard head shot through a window during "urban' engagement, i'm tossing my AK aside, and grabbing my AR with the Aimpoint...... Simple, done.

dieselpower
04-08-2011, 4:34 PM
AR people are so sensitive lol. Ill say this, it took 50 years to make the AR a decent weapon. The AK has been a decent weapon from the get go. Both are antiquated IMO.

Here is where the logic fails the AK owner. We AR owners are not "sensitive" we are realist. We are not stuck in the glory days. In 1960 the AK47 was the top dog, the be-all, end -all weapon. It smoked the M16 in every way.

Time's changed. The weapons system has evolved well past those clunky days. If you are planning to go over to Somalia to enjoy your SHTF, sure grab an AK, because all the parts and ammo you will find will support you.

Here in the US you have a better chance finding supplies for either. So the logic is now to figure out which is better in all other categories...sorry to say the old AK47 is poor in every other area.

Hardly what you are going to encounter during urban warefare. In my book, accuracy, VERSATILE PLATFORM, and common ammo is worth more than mud wrestling with your rifle. You are not thinking straight on this one. If the AR platform is GOOD ENOUGH for our US Military, it's good enough for Joe Civilian.

+1

Its good enough for the military and its modular design and versatility means its can adapt to a billion requirements. Our Military may not have the funds to adapt it as it was designed to do, but we civilians do.

There is no situation where an AK owner will be better off then an AR owner...In the US. So go to Iran if you need that AK to be better,,,cuz here in the US and here in a SHTF the AR15 is top dog.

The man with the best tech wins... your tech is old out dated and a hindrance to you...

missiontrails
04-08-2011, 4:37 PM
Here is where the logic fails the AK owner. We AR owners are not "sensitive" we are realist. We are not stuck in the glory days. In 1960 the AK47 was the top dog, the be-all, end -all weapon. It smoked the M16 in every way.

Time's changed. The weapons system has evolved well past those clunky days. If you are planning to go over to Somalia to enjoy your SHTF, sure grab an AK, because all the parts and ammo you will find will support you.

Here in the US you have a better chance finding supplies for either. So the logic is now to figure out which is better in all other categories...sorry to say the old AK47 is poor in every other area.



+1

Its good enough for the military and its modular design and versatility means its can adapt to a billion requirements. Our Military may not have the funds to adapt it as it was designed to do, but we civilians do.

There is no situation where an AK owner will be better off then an AR owner...In the US. So go to Iran if you need that AK to be better,,,cuz here in the US and here in a SHTF the AR15 is top dog.

The man with the best tech wins... your tech is old out dated and a hindrance to you...

If I go to IRAN, i'm bringing a LWRC M6A2, and a Glock 21. I will then take 300 yard shots with confidence, sandy and dirty.

valleyrat
04-08-2011, 4:42 PM
Sorry lol, I think y'all are sensitive. Im not an AK purest, my go to rifle is neither the AK nor AR. I believe that the AR has some fundamental design flaws that were never addressed. "Because its good enough for the military" is a poor rationalization.

Here is where the logic fails the AK owner. We AR owners are not "sensitive" we are realist. We are not stuck in the glory days. In 1960 the AK47 was the top dog, the be-all, end -all weapon. It smoked the M16 in every way.

Time's changed. The weapons system has evolved well past those clunky days. If you are planning to go over to Somalia to enjoy your SHTF, sure grab an AK, because all the parts and ammo you will find will support you.

Here in the US you have a better chance finding supplies for either. So the logic is now to figure out which is better in all other categories...sorry to say the old AK47 is poor in every other area.

Mr_Monkeywrench
04-08-2011, 5:02 PM
Actually the modern ar platform is extremely reliable. One thing all must realize is that anything made by human hands fallible. The ak's overseas have been known to fail the enemy, a lot. Why? Improper maintenance. The ar only requires that you keep that bolt wet and a wipe down every now and again and it will out live the guy who scavenges it off of your teotwawki body. What im getting at is this, the internet is filled with opinions and most of it is crap. Pick the platform that you feel most comfortable with and master it. If its ak, cool. If its ar? Cool. If its a civil war era trap door and you've mastered that platform? Cool. Just get what you like OP and try not to get hosed when selling your ar.
P.S. for the record, Ar FTW!!!! :D

Code7inOaktown
04-08-2011, 5:05 PM
I knew this was coming...

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Fern
04-08-2011, 5:32 PM
Well my Cummins can out pull your Powerstroke and Duramax. Well my Duramax is faster than Cummins and Powersrtoke. Well my Powerstroke comes stock with compound turbos. Oh wait, wrong forum.

pyro3k2
04-08-2011, 6:28 PM
I knew this was coming...

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

way ahead of you on this one:popcorn:

NorCalK9.com
04-08-2011, 6:31 PM
OK I'm keeping the AR I"m dumping the bullbarrel getting a short 16in one instead and reason im doing so is what am I to do with the 20k rounds of 556 ammo I have.
@ C.W.M.V. You just put me across the line this is what I've heard from so many people So I will keep the AR in case termites eat the wood away from my ak lol. Thank you everyone for the help and suggestions Even DieselPower hating AK's gave me a lot to think about.

missiontrails
04-08-2011, 6:35 PM
OK I'm keeping the AR I"m dumping the bullbarrel getting a short 16in one instead and reason im doing so is what am I to do with the 20k rounds of 556 ammo I have.
@ C.W.M.V. You just put me across the line this is what I've heard from so many people So I will keep the AR in case termites eat the wood away from my ak lol. Thank you everyone for the help and suggestions Even DieselPower hating AK's gave me a lot to think about.

Your diploma is in the mail:)

NorCalK9.com
04-08-2011, 6:43 PM
Your diploma is in the mail:)

Awesome so now I can go to the prom. lol

LBDamned
04-08-2011, 6:45 PM
Zastava PAP - Serbian (Yugo) AK variant... gets excellent reviews - I just got one; quality is awesome! Havent fired it yet, soon though!

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u72/OCG35/Guns/ZastavaPAPphone-2.jpg
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u72/OCG35/Guns/thumb_PAP1.jpg

ElvenSoul
04-08-2011, 6:48 PM
Can you try the AK out first to see if you like it?

rattlesnake_nm
04-08-2011, 6:48 PM
Zastava PAP - Serbian (Yugo) AK variant... gets excellent reviews - I just got one; quality is awesome! Havent fired it yet, soon though!

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u72/OCG35/Guns/ZastavaPAPphone-2.jpg
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u72/OCG35/Guns/thumb_PAP1.jpg

Very cool. I had a bill clinton cigar hole stock back during the ban on a mak90. I also has a norinco hunter with a sporterized stock and no pistol grip. It was milled and I wish I still had it.

Timmay
04-08-2011, 6:55 PM
Why would you not want an AR15 for a SHTF rifle? This is like saying I would not use my Toyota Land cruiser for a SHTF 4X4, I want to use my H2.

Flip that and it makes sense. An H2 has never won an endurance race like a Land Cruiser has. What may seem similar to the ignorant, is painfully obvious to the experienced.


In what SHTF situation can you imagine where an AK47 is going to out preform an AR15? There isn't one. Not a single plausible situation points to an AK47 over an AR15.

Reliability. You can't argue that because my opinion, isn't and opinion, it's fact. I have seen completely rusted, almost destroyed AK weapons still fire rounds.

The AR is a billion times more versatile, a million times more mission equip-able, 223 ammo is thousands of time more plentiful, the AR platform is hundreds of times easier to find gear for, the AR is dozens of times more accurate, and the AR weighs less fully loaded down.

I agree with versatility. I cannot agree with a with the weight issue. I would rather carry a 7.62 round that usually will kill, if not at least take them out of the fight versus a 5.56. I has seen what round does what on a two way.

The ignorant people want to compare the round an AK is FORCED to use, against one of a HUNDRED different rounds an AR15 can be configured to fire.

I agree with you here. However, we could say that the reliability plays a role with some of those rounds. Not all but some.

You want to compare round knock down power...let me slap on my .450 thumper upper then we will compare rounds...you want to compare range...let me slap on my 6.5 upper..oh you want to compare weight, let me slap on my 5.56 LW upper.

If you read over your initial post you would see that this quote makes no sense. You stance was that the AR over all was lighter. Why the hell would I want to carry .450 rounds?

There is no situation where an AK outperforms a properly maintained AR...none. Its Hollywood fantasy at best, its Russian envy at worse. By worse I mean American weapon engineers have spent the better half of a CENTURY refining a weapon platform into the best on a battle field, yet people want to believe a weapon that hasn't changed in over 35 years is better...its ignorant.

In the SHTF situation you would be bugging out so time may not permit you to clean your weapon and in that case I would take the AK over the AR ANY day. If you read your history there is technically only a few actual "AK" weapons. The Russians as well as many other have refined the AK quite a few times over the years.

The US Military uses 5.56 due to budget restraints...you as a civilian are not. You can not compare the 7.62x39 vs the 5.56x45 and say its a AK vs AR debate. You can not compare a Saiga reliable firearm with a Vulcan AR15 clone and say its a accurate comparison. You can not use a 1960s AK and use a M16A1 from 1960s as a reference tool on current reliabilities and performance.You want to play Ivan with your AK, great I am all for that. Its fine, there is nothing wrong with that. Please don't try to tell us its a better weapon... there is truly no comparison in the real world.

Wrong. Politics play a role. Specific groups get and use what they want because they are not apart of the system is that aspect. If you ask somebody what rounds the Marine Corps uses you would get a handful of answer. In reality they use a many variants for particular reasons not attached to the political cog that dictates what they do. Money does play a role. Through the hands of lobbyists. Also I am not comparing a "low" end AR to an AK. I own a Noveske 14.5" and a Larue 18" so I think in terms of "quality" I give the AR the best chance it gets. I have used MANY AK's in theater. I own a Romanian variant of the AK.

Your 1964 Ferrari is great...its no match for a 2011 Cadillac CTS, or even a 2011 Mustang 5.0. The Ferrari is merely for show...as is the 1960s AK47 design.
Once again your analogies make little if any sense at all. I think I would take a GT40 over the Cadillac and the Mustang...Any day. Not a very fair analogy now is it?:D

Timmay
04-08-2011, 6:56 PM
To the OP. Why don't you "downgrade" your AR and own both?

One more thing dieselpower. The AK can shoot nearly 2 MOA( obviously this would depend on the particular type of AK used), and in some cases under 2. By using US made ammunition. This has been tested over and over again many times.

missiontrails
04-08-2011, 6:58 PM
Reliability. You can't argue that because my opinion, isn't and opinion, it's fact. I have seen completely rusted, almost destroyed AK weapons still fire rounds.

The question is, where do those rounds go? LOL:)

richie3888
04-08-2011, 7:04 PM
Don't do it

Ak707
04-08-2011, 7:07 PM
just throwin this out there

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-N_KEhIw74&feature=fvwrel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n61K8Npfyng&feature=fvwrel

Timmay
04-08-2011, 7:15 PM
just throwin this out there

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-N_KEhIw74&feature=fvwrel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n61K8Npfyng&feature=fvwrel

These videos prove nothing. Round in chamber, dust cover closed test don't prove anything.

Robidouxs
04-08-2011, 7:16 PM
You could trade your AR for 2 FAL's or a FAL and AK plus 1000 rounds for the AK.

Ak707
04-08-2011, 7:18 PM
so when your in a dust storm fighting zombies you take a round out of the chamber and open your dust cover..?

Ak707
04-08-2011, 7:19 PM
or right before you accidentally drop your rifle in the mud you quickly take a round out of the chamber and open your dust cover..?

Code7inOaktown
04-08-2011, 7:20 PM
These videos prove nothing. Round in chamber, dust cover closed test don't prove anything.

You're right. Open dust cover is a better test:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqRwx4wtmms&feature=grec_index

Code7inOaktown
04-08-2011, 7:26 PM
OK I'm keeping the AR I"m dumping the bullbarrel getting a short 16in one instead and reason im doing so is what am I to do with the 20k rounds of 556 ammo I have.
@ C.W.M.V. You just put me across the line this is what I've heard from so many people So I will keep the AR in case termites eat the wood away from my ak lol. Thank you everyone for the help and suggestions Even DieselPower hating AK's gave me a lot to think about.

Wait, you are saying that you have 20,000 rounds of 5.56 and you have put but 40 rounds through it but you're thinking of trading a $1,500 weapon for a $700 weapon?

Are you trolling us?

Timmay
04-08-2011, 7:29 PM
You're right. Open dust cover is a better test:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqRwx4wtmms&feature=grec_index

Fail. Round in chamber.
That is not an AK nor is it a 47. Yes, there is a difference. Plus that 74 was modified from even it's original configuration.

C.W.M.V.
04-08-2011, 7:30 PM
Thank god for youtube, now thanks to these guys we can discount 40 years of combat experiences :rolleyes:

emtnsocali
04-08-2011, 7:31 PM
i have a yugo m70a2 underfolder with midwest rail for trade.....pm me :)

missiontrails
04-08-2011, 7:35 PM
You're not supposed to treat your rifle like a cat turd in a cat box.

Timmay
04-08-2011, 7:43 PM
You're not supposed to treat your rifle like a cat turd in a cat box.

Really? I wasn't aware.

That isn't the point of the discussion. When you test something you don't just do what the norm is. You go beyond the Norm.

Let me get this straight before it gets out of hand. I am not saying the AR is NOT a reliable platform, just not AS reliable compared to the AK47. I own many platforms and have relied on my .gov issue rifle for years.

The only problem with these youtube vids is that a majority of US AK's are rebuilt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyVts2ZUC8o&feature=fvwrel

We can go back and forth all night.

C.W.M.V.
04-08-2011, 7:45 PM
You're not supposed to treat your rifle like a cat turd in a cat box.

Ha its funny you think you get a choice.

lumpia
04-08-2011, 7:46 PM
What kind of AR do you have anyway?

Justintoxicated
04-08-2011, 7:53 PM
One reason I prefer AR's, is because of Bullet buttons and non full auto configurations of both rifles.

Seems an AK would be very effective if it was full auto and no BB, you could spray larger powerful rounds all over very quickly. Reliability > Precision in many situations.

But once you add semi-auto, and a bullet button, precision becomes a more important factor. You gotta make those shots count, and place them well.

Just My Opinion.

Timmay
04-08-2011, 7:57 PM
One reason I prefer AR's, is because of Bullet buttons and non full auto configurations of both rifles.

Seems an AK would be very effective if it was full auto and no BB, you could spray larger powerful rounds all over very quickly. Reliability > Precision in many situations.

But once you add semi-auto, and a bullet button, precision becomes a more important factor. You gotta make those shots count, and place them well.

Just My Opinion.

I agree and this is a good point for our situation out here. Although my AK has no BB (legally of course). I sometimes fall towards my AR because of a SHTF situation I can push out the distance. An AK was designed for about 300 meters and in. But then again I have an AR10 so, we can even further push it out but it also validates dieselpowers point about AR modularity.

If the SHTF, my BB's are gone.

pyro3k2
04-08-2011, 8:00 PM
Thank god for youtube, now thanks to these guys we can discount 40 years of combat experiences :rolleyes:

--AK OWNERS MANUAL CHAPTER 1: HOW TO TREAT YOUR AK--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyVts2ZUC8o&NR=1&feature=fvwp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejfe_J0kBNQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsVPlVIKdco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91OFlJ2HUF0 [NOTE] if he used spam can ammo this would have never happened.

ElvenSoul
04-08-2011, 8:02 PM
This should be moved to arf.com more their style.

Justintoxicated
04-08-2011, 8:08 PM
If your going to get an AK for your AR, get one like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDiyTfWKxnQ&feature=player_profilepage

STAGE 2
04-08-2011, 8:10 PM
Why would you not want an AR15 for a SHTF rifle?

Because the AK is simpler, uses less parts, is much more tolerant of neglect. If S is truly HTF then who knows when you will have time to clean or even if you were able to get your cleaning supplies. Working takes priority above all else.


This is like saying I would not use my Toyota Land cruiser for a SHTF 4X4, I want to use my H2.

Bad analogy. Yotas are famed for their reliability, just like AKs.


In what SHTF situation can you imagine where an AK47 is going to out preform an AR15? There isn't one. Not a single plausible situation points to an AK47 over an AR15.

Surely you jest. Unless you are going to simply ignore physics and engineering standards the AK is a more reliable design. This doesn't mean that the AR is unreliable, just the the AK is more so.


The AR is a billion times more versatile, a million times more mission equip-able, 223 ammo is thousands of time more plentiful, the AR platform is hundreds of times easier to find gear for, the AR is dozens of times more accurate, and the AR weighs less fully loaded down.

Exactly what "missions" does a civvie need to be "equipped for"?



You want to compare round knock down power...let me slap on my .450 thumper upper then we will compare rounds...you want to compare range...let me slap on my 6.5 upper..oh you want to compare weight, let me slap on my 5.56 LW upper.

And for every upper you have to carry and proprietary mag, I can carry extra ammo, water, and other stuff I need. The 7.62 an do everything thats required in a SHTF scenario. If you need to engage targets further out, than you don't have an ammo problem you have a planning problem.



There is no situation where an AK outperforms a properly maintained AR...none.

Run them dry. Guess which one will stop first. That and as I said above, proper maintenance is great, but sometimes the person shooting at you isn't going to be courteous enough to give you a break to clean and lube.

NorCalK9.com
04-08-2011, 8:18 PM
Wait, you are saying that you have 20,000 rounds of 5.56 and you have put but 40 rounds through it but you're thinking of trading a $1,500 weapon for a $700 weapon?

Are you trolling us?

no lol i had 4 ar's as well as mini 14 got most that ammo befpre the scare in febuary

dieselpower
04-08-2011, 8:52 PM
my turn...LOL

Flip that and it makes sense. An H2 has never won an endurance race like a Land Cruiser has. What may seem similar to the ignorant, is painfully obvious to the experienced.

meh...you get my point. I think the H2 is a commercialized soccer mom van for the army-wannabe dads...



Reliability. You can't argue that because my opinion, isn't and opinion, it's fact. I have seen completely rusted, almost destroyed AK weapons still fire rounds.
I have a m91/30 that still fires very nice... so what. Any firearm made will function for over 100 years easy. Its a myth they will not. modern tech in metallurgy and manufacture coatings has jumped hundreds of time ahead of the 1940s. I can guarantee (with no doubt in my mind) an AR15 manufactured to 2000 standards will out life an AK manufactured in 1960. I can also guarantee if either are manufactured today..they will both outlive you. So once again the AR wins since it again has more to offer.



I agree with versatility. I cannot agree with a with the weight issue. I would rather carry a 7.62 round that usually will kill, if not at least take them out of the fight versus a 5.56. I has seen what round does what on a two way.

Once again your military training has failed you. You are so fixated with what is in the box, you can not think outside of it. If you are worried about knockdown at longer ranges dont use 5.56...you got 1,000,000 other options, the sky is the limit. And I bet a MK318 or MK262 will do just fine on a two way range...in fact I know it will.



I agree with you here. However, we could say that the reliability plays a role with some of those rounds. Not all but some.


the point is you have choices, when you limit your options you are limiting your success and your survival.



If you read over your initial post you would see that this quote makes no sense. You stance was that the AR over all was lighter. Why the hell would I want to carry .450 rounds?

Only one of the benefits is weight. The point is if you want weight get X on your AR, if you want knock down get Y on your AR, if you want both get Z on your AR. With the AK you are forced to get X, you do not have the option to get Y or Z.



In the SHTF situation you would be bugging out so time may not permit you to clean your weapon and in that case I would take the AK over the AR ANY day. If you read your history there is technically only a few actual "AK" weapons. The Russians as well as many other have refined the AK quite a few times over the years.

Myth. Most AR15s will function for 1000s of rounds before failures occur. You are not going to see 1000s of rounds in a SHTF. Hell you will not be carrying 1000 rounds. The point is moot and part of the Hollywood myth. They want to sell you a part in the next Rambo movie...its not happening in real life.


Wrong. Politics play a role. Specific groups get and use what they want because they are not apart of the system is that aspect. If you ask somebody what rounds the Marine Corps uses you would get a handful of answer. In reality they use a many variants for particular reasons not attached to the political cog that dictates what they do. Money does play a role. Through the hands of lobbyists. Also I am not comparing a "low" end AR to an AK. I own a Noveske 14.5" and a Larue 18" so I think in terms of "quality" I give the AR the best chance it gets. I have used MANY AK's in theater. I own a Romanian variant of the AK.

BINGO, you just made my point. Diversity, versatility, modular, mission equip-able, current tech all win and thats why specialized groups get to pick what they need. The cannon fod troops don't. So are you cannon fod or do you want to survive a SHTF? You want a weapon system that can change when it needs to...not one stuck in the 1950s.



Once again your analogies make little if any sense at all. I think I would take a GT40 over the Cadillac and the Mustang...Any day. Not a very fair analogy now is it?:D

So you think that GT40 is going to beat a CTS? LOL...sorry it will not. I know it can't even run more then 3000 miles without a tune up and without a mechanical break down. A new 2011 car can go 20,000 miles. You have lost before the race started. Sure the GT40 is what you want in your garage to show off...we are talking about using them...not posing for pictures. The GT40 is old, outdated, limited, hard to find parts for, not that fast by todays standards...hell my sons Civic could take on in a 1/4 mile...LOL

If posing in pictures is your primary requirement for a SHTF rifle..yeah get an AK47..they look evil as all hell. If you want to survive a situation that lasts longer than 2 months...get an AR15. Oh course any thing will do for a little local burp...even a M44, AK, SKS, Mini14, M1, or Hi-point 995 for that matter.

LBDamned
04-08-2011, 10:17 PM
so the OP asked for AK advice and the thread turns into an AK vs AR flame war?:rolleyes:

He asked what AK are good and what are crap... I think whether he should get rid of the AR for AK is another thread...

tujungatoes
04-08-2011, 10:41 PM
This should be moved to arf.com more their style.

^Amen to that!



I want to thank everyone who posted in this thread. It's been the most entertaining thing I've read all day. Many of you are complete f-ing morons. Watching you totally derail a simple thread with your own biased opions, and argue about this rifle vs that one in hypothetical tactical TEOTWAWKI situations amuses me greatly.:D. This dead horse had been beaten into non-existence, and yet you continue with such enthusiasm. It's goddamn hilarious.

To the OP...A wiser man than myself one said "if it feels good do it". So get whichever rifle(s) you want(even if it's a little pink. 22). Oh, and to actually answer a question asked in this thread. You can purchase vz-58 mags from copes distributing. They'll tear em down into rebuild kits for a buck each I think.

NorCalK9.com
04-09-2011, 8:57 AM
^Amen to that!



I want to thank everyone who posted in this thread. It's been the most entertaining thing I've read all day. Many of you are complete f-ing morons. Watching you totally derail a simple thread with your own biased opions, and argue about this rifle vs that one in hypothetical tactical TEOTWAWKI situations amuses me greatly.:D. This dead horse had been beaten into non-existence, and yet you continue with such enthusiasm. It's goddamn hilarious.

To the OP...A wiser man than myself one said "if it feels good do it". So get whichever rifle(s) you want(even if it's a little pink. 22). Oh, and to actually answer a question asked in this thread. You can purchase vz-58 mags from copes distributing. They'll tear em down into rebuild kits for a buck each I think.
thank you bud. I tried saying the same thing time n time again. Lol and again thank you everyone for your input.

dieselpower
04-09-2011, 10:46 AM
thank you bud. I tried saying the same thing time n time again. Lol and again thank you everyone for your input.

yeah, we answered your post, then you came back with an opinion...you DERAILED your own thread. so don't go pointing the fingers at those of us who attempted to educate you.

Post #8
Post #12
Post #14

We saw your huge fail and tried to talk reason into you. Do you think I didn't try telling my neighbor a super-soaker 5000 filled with bleach wasn't a good idea for personal protection? After several conversations and him reading about a 12 year old daughter raped for 4 hours in front of her tied up parents he came to me and asked about REAL protection and REAL life situations.

Don't come back on the 2 or 3 of us who tried talking sense into you and claim thread-jacking poop slinging...you started it.

Timmay
04-09-2011, 10:51 AM
yeah, we answered your post, then you came back with an opinion...you DERAILED your own thread. so don't go pointing the fingers at those of us who attempted to educate you.

Post #8
Post #12
Post #14

We saw your huge fail and tried to talk reason into you. Do you think I didn't try telling my neighbor a super-soaker 5000 filled with bleach wasn't a good idea for personal protection? After several conversations and him reading about a 12 year old daughter raped for 4 hours in front of her tied up parents he came to me and asked about REAL protection and REAL life situations.

Don't come back on the 2 or 3 of us who tried talking sense into you and claim thread-jacking poop slinging...you started it.

I'm starting to like you diesel.
QFT

giants_fan24
04-09-2011, 11:03 AM
I have 4 AR's and one AK that doesn't get shot much, just because an AR will kick an AK's butt any day of the week. I have never seen an AK key hole a shot at a 150 yards, it might have been done but I've never seen it.

GettoPhilosopher
04-09-2011, 11:21 AM
I believe that the AR has some fundamental design flaws that were never addressed.

Ignoring the spelling issues, would you mind pontificating on what those vaguely defined "fundamental design flaws" are? You'll pardon me if I don't take some dude on the internet's word on it. :P

dieselpower
04-09-2011, 11:42 AM
Ignoring the spelling issues, would you mind pontificating on what those vaguely defined "fundamental design flaws" are? You'll pardon me if I don't take some dude on the internet's word on it. :P

single sided controls


its the only one left, and several manufactures are fixing that.

;)

Timmay
04-09-2011, 11:47 AM
I have 4 AR's and one AK that doesn't get shot much, just because an AR will kick an AK's butt any day of the week. I have never seen an AK key hole a shot at a 150 yards, it might have been done but I've never seen it.

I have read, not seen, that a Krebs Custom can shoot under 1 MOA. That would certainly key hole paper. A key holed shot doesn't always signify accuracy. I agree however that AR's are significantly more accurate over the AK.

tujungatoes
04-09-2011, 12:14 PM
:popcorn:

Ryan in SD
04-09-2011, 1:28 PM
Ever consider an AK74? Kinda a weird balance between the 2 guns.

I think i may have an AK to spare on a trade, I love them both.

Also 4moa is common with AKs, I dont know where that 6moa came from earlier in the discussion. A red dot helps tremendously.

Ryan in SD
04-09-2011, 1:29 PM
I have read, not seen, that a Krebs Custom can shoot under 1 MOA. That would certainly key hole paper. A key holed shot doesn't always signify accuracy. I agree however that AR's are significantly more accurate over the AK.

Key hole I thought is a bad thing (when a bullet starts to tumble and strikes the paper sideways leaving an elongated hole) :confused:

dieselpower
04-09-2011, 2:59 PM
Key hole I thought is a bad thing (when a bullet starts to tumble and strikes the paper sideways leaving an elongated hole) :confused:

its used both ways.
1) a tumbling round
2) two rounds striking nearly the same spot <--not oftern used since #1 is more common.

x22
04-09-2011, 3:25 PM
pretty reasonable prices,probably build you2for price of youre AR.

Aspec5vz
04-09-2011, 6:04 PM
Why are AR people so elitist? Can't we all just get along?

NorCalK9.com
04-09-2011, 6:31 PM
yeah, we answered your post, then you came back with an opinion...you DERAILED your own thread. so don't go pointing the fingers at those of us who attempted to educate you.

Post #8
Post #12
Post #14

We saw your huge fail and tried to talk reason into you. Do you think I didn't try telling my neighbor a super-soaker 5000 filled with bleach wasn't a good idea for personal protection? After several conversations and him reading about a 12 year old daughter raped for 4 hours in front of her tied up parents he came to me and asked about REAL protection and REAL life situations.

Don't come back on the 2 or 3 of us who tried talking sense into you and claim thread-jacking poop slinging...you started it.
haha i sure did start a thread and honestly if you dont like my decision dont post and i repeatedly tried putting it back on track yet u had to keep on the ar kick. So u n ur ar sleep well tonite i surely as hell will sleep.well with an ak in the room. And fyi shtf if i cant find 762 ammo i will pick up someone elses piece and use that now thats adapting.

pyro3k2
04-09-2011, 11:05 PM
BTW was it that VZ you were considering trading or was it another type of AK?

Vanilla Gorilla
04-09-2011, 11:14 PM
trading ar15 for ak need advice

my advice is dont do it :D

NorCalK9.com
04-10-2011, 2:54 PM
heads up i sold said ar today for 1100 and bought a wasr for 485 new bad news is i miss my ar now lol its ok though cause after talking to alot of people i have an ar10 short barrel build in the works maybe dieselpower will have.some.good advice for me when i get ready for it so once again thanks everyone for posting

Petro6golf
04-10-2011, 4:12 PM
I have a milled Polish 1960 AK. I love it. Its a century arms

hendersondefense.com is a good site

dieselpower
04-10-2011, 5:20 PM
heads up i sold said ar today for 1100 and bought a wasr for 485 new bad news is i miss my ar now lol its ok though cause after talking to alot of people i have an ar10 short barrel build in the works maybe dieselpower will have.some.good advice for me when i get ready for it so once again thanks everyone for posting

Yeah...go buy an AR15 with the remaining cash you got after buying the WASR. You got $615 to play with.

NorCalK9.com
04-10-2011, 6:03 PM
Yeah...go buy an AR15 with the remaining cash you got after buying the WASR. You got $615 to play with.

Honestly $615.00 is enough for a GOOD AR? hell every upper ive ever had ran me atleast that. the one I just sold was 800 though I didn't pay 800 glad im a gun show vendor. Anyways are you serious about an ar for 615? I was really trying to just sell the guy the upper so i could keep the lower but he wanted lower too. Oh well trust me I love guns may it be a musket ak or ar really want a steyr aug hate california.

missiontrails
04-10-2011, 6:08 PM
Honestly $615.00 is enough for a GOOD AR? hell every upper ive ever had ran me atleast that. the one I just sold was 800 though I didn't pay 800 glad im a gun show vendor. Anyways are you serious about an ar for 615? I was really trying to just sell the guy the upper so i could keep the lower but he wanted lower too. Oh well trust me I love guns may it be a musket ak or ar really want a steyr aug hate california.

I think he meant that $615 would make a good down payment on a GOOD AR. $800 will get you a decent enough bare bones rifle that will do the job.

dieselpower
04-10-2011, 6:29 PM
I think he meant that $615 would make a good down payment on a GOOD AR. $800 will get you a decent enough bare bones rifle that will do the job.


yup. Even spending $150 on a lower and building over the next year is a good plan.

NorCalK9.com
04-11-2011, 7:59 AM
Yeah eventually i will do another one like i said bfore didnt have toys as a kid so now i make up.for that

762.DEFENSE
04-11-2011, 8:35 AM
If your going to get an AK for your AR, get one like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDiyTfWKxnQ&feature=player_profilepage

"So as you can see, this rifle doesn't f*ck around..." :smilielol5:

NorCalK9.com
04-11-2011, 9:46 AM
"So as you can see, this rifle doesn't f*ck around..." :smilielol5:

That is BAD *ss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dan FS71
04-12-2011, 1:39 PM
Plenty of reasons to sell an ar to get an ak. The best reason is you want one.

There are plenty of high end ak's in that range: Tubak's, m76, m85, m90 etc or much more expensive - tiger , svd or you can get a few less expensive one's if you fancey different styles.

For those who think, you've seen 1 ak you've seen them all. Is like getting an ar and not hanging 15lbs of crap off it. ie. You just don't get what they are about.

It is nice to sh0ot thousands and thousands of rounds, ugly surplus, corrosive, steelcase, steel core and to have no relibility issues. Esp. when cleaning consists of putting it back in it's case.

dieselpower
04-12-2011, 2:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justintoxicated
If your going to get an AK for your AR, get one like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDiyT...er_profilepage



Originally Posted by 762.D3A7H
"So as you can see, this rifle doesn't f*ck around..."

Originally posted by NorCalk9.com
That is BAD *ss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



You do realize he is an American faking a Russian accent and bumpfiring that semiautomatic AK47 right?

pyro3k2
04-12-2011, 3:10 PM
YOu have 615 dollars left, you need to buy at least one of these
http://www.natchezss.com/images/products/YCAM885.jpg
and then a lot of these
http://www.rusmilitary.com/images/akm_mag.jpg
any by the time you are done you will have one of these
http://eroidays.com/files/2008/10/smiley-face.gif

generalpetres
04-12-2011, 3:20 PM
just keep your ar and save up and build an ak, that's what I'm doing. That way when the next world war comes along and its on American soil you should be able to sustain your self for a while because there will defiantly be ammo for your ar and ak :). im currently pricing out and saving up to build my self a tactical ak74.

LBDamned
04-12-2011, 8:33 PM
just keep your ar and save up and build an ak, that's what I'm doing. That way when the next world war comes along and its on American soil you should be able to sustain your self for a while because there will defiantly be ammo for your ar and ak :). im currently pricing out and saving up to build my self a tactical ak74.

we'll have another civil war before another world war... in any event, you're right - better to be prepared (have all you can) :D

NorCalK9.com
04-12-2011, 9:16 PM
YOu have 615 dollars left, you need to buy at least one of these
http://www.natchezss.com/images/products/YCAM885.jpg
and then a lot of these
http://www.rusmilitary.com/images/akm_mag.jpg
any by the time you are done you will have one of these
http://eroidays.com/files/2008/10/smiley-face.gif

i went to the range tpday with my other ak 500 rounds 1 misfeed now i will.say this even that 1 misfeed ejected in less than a second and back to shooting i never ever would have tortured my ar's like that not cause they couldnt handle but afraid to. As for ammo i have about 7k rounds but about tp do a huge order of brown bear from my gun store as for mags i have 13 and my brother shot it 4 times and bumped it every time couldnt tell if he was gonna crap himself or well u know. I love these damn ak's and i will eventually do another ar build.

Ryan in SD
04-13-2011, 12:54 AM
I shot my AKs and my mauser build and my buddies mosn and saigax39 today. AKs are nothing to scoff at when out in the boonies dinging 5 inch targets repeatedly at 150 yards. It even seems easier to shoot an AK with open sights at that range than my mauser, not sure if its the recoil or ergos or what, but both guns put lead in a small area no problem. The AK seems so effortless and so little recoil in comparison to the mauser.

walkerenglish
04-13-2011, 7:14 AM
Ok so i have an ar15 with only 40 rounds down th barrel im onto it over 1500 bucks thinking of trading it for another ak i just bought one 3 days ago and love the ak anyways what ak types are good and which are junk they all seem the same to me.


For those of you that know me I'm sure you know what I'm going to say....but anyway, I would by an Arsenal or two:innocent: