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shiv
04-07-2011, 9:58 AM
I was curious to see what kind of groups my LMT Defender would get, so I put a scope on it and went to the range.
I used a combination of factory loads and I was pleasantly surprised with the results.
At 100yds it easily shot 1" and sub-1" groups. I was hoping to have a 1" group at 100, so I was very pleased with these results.
After that I pushed back to 200yds and tried again.
9308493083
I fired several 5-shot groups; one is labeled with a "1", another with a "2", and another is unlabeled.
Group #2 is the only one that is worth mentioning. I was using Privi Partizan 69gr match loads and it produced a group well under 2 inches at 200 yards. The 5th hole is not within 2" because of shooter error. The other four were all good shots and the farthest spread is approximately 1.75".

This is not a match gun. It's a 16" 1-7 twist chrome lined combat rifle with the standard trigger and a Troy free float fore-end.
Given my set-up and ammunition, is this not accuracy to be proud of? I was very happy with my chrome lined barrel being able to shoot MOA, but should I be happy with this or should it be capable of more?
The gun and myself are capable of even tighter groups if I had a nicer trigger and a rear bag.
Anyways, what do you guys think? Good, bad, decent?
Thanks.

rojocorsa
04-07-2011, 10:01 AM
I think it's decent.

dieselpower
04-07-2011, 10:09 AM
I think it's decent.

2 inches at 200 yards

LOL... thats 1 MOA shooting. Its alittle better than "decent" with a 16" 1:7 flash hider non-match anything rifle. In fact thats freaking outstanding shooting in my book.

Sikhawk
04-07-2011, 10:40 AM
LOL... thats 1 MOA shooting. Its alittle better than "decent" with a 16" 1:7 flash hider non-match anything rifle. In fact thats freaking outstanding shooting in my book.

+100

CK_32
04-07-2011, 10:46 AM
Yea I doubt I could do the same.. Or even 2 MOA at 100 yards :D

shiv
04-07-2011, 10:57 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys.
This made my day.

kneedeep323
04-07-2011, 11:28 AM
Any hit on the bad Guy is good to me

shiv
04-07-2011, 12:01 PM
Any hit on the bad Guy is good to me

Agreed. And this weapon with the Eotech does that very well, a long ways out.

What I found interesting (and I forgot to mention this) is that it did NOT like the Black Hills 75gr loads at 100 or 200 yards. Could this be because of barrel length?

shiv
04-08-2011, 9:32 PM
What I found interesting (and I forgot to mention this) is that it did NOT like the Black Hills 75gr loads at 100 or 200 yards. Could this be because of barrel length?

Anyone know the answer to this?

motorwerks
04-08-2011, 10:05 PM
yup well over minute of bad guy!

locosway
04-08-2011, 10:09 PM
Agreed. And this weapon with the Eotech does that very well, a long ways out.

What I found interesting (and I forgot to mention this) is that it did NOT like the Black Hills 75gr loads at 100 or 200 yards. Could this be because of barrel length?

The 1/7 twist is for the tracer rounds which are a little longer. I guess the barrel length could affect a 75gr round... The heaviest I've run through my LMT ar 62gr so far.

Darklyte27
04-09-2011, 8:15 AM
seems about right

oh ya post here next time

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=147095

CSACANNONEER
04-09-2011, 8:24 AM
Group size has NOTHING to do with accuracy!
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p43/csacannoneer/accuracy_vs_precision_556.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p43/csacannoneer/accuracy_precision.gif

shiv
04-09-2011, 10:39 AM
Group size has NOTHING to do with accuracy!
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p43/csacannoneer/accuracy_vs_precision_556.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p43/csacannoneer/accuracy_precision.gif

What's your point? I just wanted to know if my groups were good.

Jasonaspears
04-09-2011, 10:52 AM
What's your point? I just wanted to know if my groups were good.

Your post is asking about accuracy. I imagine that's why CSACANNONEER put up the details about what accuracy is versus being precise. :)

glock7
04-09-2011, 10:55 AM
good shooting sir. i wish my old eyes could do as well...

wksun88
04-09-2011, 10:58 AM
nice

shiv
04-09-2011, 11:08 AM
good shooting sir. i wish my old eyes could do as well...

Thank you sir.

shiv
04-09-2011, 11:32 AM
Your post is asking about accuracy. I imagine that's why CSACANNONEER put up the details about what accuracy is versus being precise. :)

*How's my shooting/precision?
If a moderator would like to change the title to that, please do so.

Jasonaspears
04-09-2011, 11:34 AM
*How's my shooting/precision?
If a moderator would like to change the title to that, please do so.

I think terminology is what the issue is. Accuracy is technically not about group sizing as pointed out in the diagram. No worries...

CSACANNONEER
04-09-2011, 11:50 AM
What's your point? I just wanted to know if my groups were good.

My point is that as long as your POI is centered around your POA, your acurracy is fine. You could be shooting 24" groups at 2 yards and it would be "accurate". Or, you could be "precise" by shooting 3" groups at 1000 yards but, the groups are in the 5 ring. They are two different concepts which compliment each other. Using proper terminology makes you easier to understand and and keeps you from looking as uneducated as some firearms manufactures who garantee Xmoa of accuracy or, people who use the word "clip" when refering to magazines or, think barrel shouds are the things that go up.

In any event, your precision should stay pretty consistant and have nothing to do with your distance (until you projectile becomes unstable doe to turbulance. In other words, if you are shooting 1" groups at 100 yards, you should be shooting 2" groups at 200 yards, 3" groups at 300 yards, etc. There is a popular belief that some bullets do not stablize until they are at a certain distance. But, once stablized, these projectiles should follow the same rules until they become unstable. Of course, varying conditions will come into play as well but, that's another story.

In general benchrest shooters are more concerned with precision first and tactical shooters' first concern is accuracy.

shiv
04-09-2011, 1:12 PM
My point is that as long as your POI is centered around your POA, your acurracy is fine. You could be shooting 24" groups at 2 yards and it would be "accurate". Or, you could be "precise" by shooting 3" groups at 1000 yards but, the groups are in the 5 ring. They are two different concepts which compliment each other. Using proper terminology makes you easier to understand and and keeps you from looking as uneducated as some firearms manufactures who garantee Xmoa of accuracy or, people who use the word "clip" when refering to magazines or, think barrel shouds are the things that go up.

In any event, your precision should stay pretty consistant and have nothing to do with your distance (until you projectile becomes unstable doe to turbulance. In other words, if you are shooting 1" groups at 100 yards, you should be shooting 2" groups at 200 yards, 3" groups at 300 yards, etc. There is a popular belief that some bullets do not stablize until they are at a certain distance. But, once stablized, these projectiles should follow the same rules until they become unstable. Of course, varying conditions will come into play as well but, that's another story.

In general benchrest shooters are more concerned with precision first and tactical shooters' first concern is accuracy.

I understand the correct terminology, I just was asking for input regarding the groups that my rifle produced. You're correct in pointing out that I should have said "precision" instead, but I don't know why you feel the need to police my thread.

CSACANNONEER
04-09-2011, 1:32 PM
I guess I just wanted to properly understand your question before I answered it. Looking at your target, it appears that you have shot a 3 shot group that is marked with a "2". If that's the case, your accuracy is a little off. You seem to be shooting just a little low. But, with only 3 shots that close to your POA, it's not a big enough sample to tell for sure. As for your precision, it looks like just under 1moa which isn't bad at all. I wish all my guns performed that well.

If you don't like my posts, you are more than welcome to put me on your ignore list. I do make it a point to attempt to inform people of the difference between precision and accuracy all the time. This time, you just got lucky that it was in your thread.

shiv
04-09-2011, 2:28 PM
I guess I just wanted to properly understand your question before I answered it. Looking at your target, it appears that you have shot a 3 shot group that is marked with a "2". If that's the case, your accuracy is a little off. You seem to be shooting just a little low. But, with only 3 shots that close to your POA, it's not a big enough sample to tell for sure. As for your precision, it looks like just under 1moa which isn't bad at all. I wish all my guns performed that well.

Makes sense.
It was a 5-shot group, but I had a very bad pull on one of them and it placed it far off from my POA. There were four in that 1.75" group. Yeah, I agree, it was a little bit low. I probably could have dialed another 1/10mil on the elevation.
Thanks for the feedback.

motorwerks
04-09-2011, 2:39 PM
why does EVERY thread have to turn into a pissing contest? lol

CSACANNONEER
04-09-2011, 3:03 PM
why does EVERY thread have to turn into a pissing contest? lol

When one drinks too much, they have to get it out of their system some how. But, in this case, I sure didn't see anyone arguing. Did you?

Bhobbs
04-09-2011, 4:59 PM
When one drinks too much, they have to get it out of their system some how. But, in this case, I sure didn't see anyone arguing. Did you?

Some people take advice as critisism.