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View Full Version : Ak's and Corrosive Ammo...


pacifico23
04-07-2011, 8:08 AM
So I have a question. I'm really looking into the AK to buy in a week or so. But had a question regarding corrosive ammo and AK's? If the AK' have to be cleaned immidietley after using corrosive ammo. What do all those third world countries do with their AK's after shooting it? I have a hard time bilieving after a battle they are running to a bucket of windex or something. Let's say you shot like 10k rounds of corrosive ammo and never cleaned it. Would that barrel be destroyed?
If this is the case, why would corrosive ammo be used for AK's to begin with? Wouldn't it completely negate the rifles reliability if you have to immiediatley clean it after eveytime you shoot it with the ammo made for it?

Rock_Islander
04-07-2011, 8:50 AM
AK's are almost ALWAYS chrome-lined in the bore and chamber. From what I remember the bolt, and carrier are also chrome-lined, then finished in some sort of black to also enhance corriosion resistance.

If any other parts start to rust over time, they are probably cheaply replaced by their unit armorers over there in the Eastern European militaries that you find those weapons and (corrosive) ammo issued in.

The AK platform is such an inexpensive rifle to produce (relatively) which means that if a rifle is completely scrapped by corrosive fouling, just issue the operator another one and problem solved.

pacifico23
04-07-2011, 8:57 AM
That's kinda stupid. You always here how reliable they are like picking them up out of rivers after laying in the button for years on end and still able to shoot. But yet you don't run a bore snake with motor oil, or windex or something after a few thousand rounds than the gun is junk.

zfields
04-07-2011, 9:03 AM
Russians used to just piss down the barrels/action.

Try that on your m4 :p

Agustav
04-07-2011, 9:07 AM
You barrel should be ok for a few days...

I left my AK unclean for a few weeks after shooting corrosive (I was a noob and didn't know any better), the barrel looks fine but the gas system got some rust on it!

rojocorsa
04-07-2011, 10:00 AM
You barrel should be ok for a few days...

I left my AK unclean for a few weeks after shooting corrosive (I was a noob and didn't know any better), the barrel looks fine but the gas system got some rust on it!

You're not the first person that I've heard of this happening to.


OP,
It seems that you need to clean out the gas system. It probably would also be a good idea to get the bolt face.

Dynamic
04-07-2011, 10:00 AM
Here is the difference between somebody in a third world country with AK / conflict VS us Civilians.

We shoot corrosive and whine about it because we have to clean for a long time to make sure it is all cleaned and takes up time. When they shoot the rifle ( and they know its corrosive ) they have nothing but time to clean and lube. All you really need is water and elbow grease . But we whine and complain about it because we are so used to using our special lubes and cleaners to clean the rifles and dont want spend over 30-45 minutes cleaning a single rifle .

FeuerFrei
04-07-2011, 10:04 AM
I shoot Yugo by the case and just use Windex afterwards.
Gas piston and tube. Wipe bolt face.
Wheel bearing grease to the sliding parts.
Done. No rust no muss.

Bug Splat
04-07-2011, 10:18 AM
if I bought my AK for a couple chickens I'd most likely treat it like crap too. Its much more expensive and harder to get an AK here than it is there. If I pay that much for a rifle i'm going to feed it the good stuff and clean it so it lasts.

cannon
04-07-2011, 11:02 AM
I shoot Yugo by the case and just use Windex afterwards.
Gas piston and tube. Wipe bolt face.
Wheel bearing grease to the sliding parts.
Done. No rust no muss.

Bingo! and thousands of rounds later it's still as good as new.

vintagedude88
04-07-2011, 9:35 PM
Oh Come On! Its and AK!!!

Don't worry about it.

killshot44
04-07-2011, 9:55 PM
if I bought my AK for a couple chickens I'd most likely treat it like crap too.

No way you're getting an AK from me for anything short of a goat. And not that three-legged one you have. :D

pyro3k2
04-07-2011, 9:57 PM
Here is the difference between somebody in a third world country with AK / conflict VS us Civilians.

We shoot corrosive and whine about it because we have to clean for a long time to make sure it is all cleaned and takes up time. When they shoot the rifle ( and they know its corrosive ) they have nothing but time to clean and lube. All you really need is water and elbow grease . But we whine and complain about it because we are so used to using our special lubes and cleaners to clean the rifles and dont want spend over 30-45 minutes cleaning a single rifle .

Agreed, but I usually spend 10-15 minutes cleaning after shooting corrosive ammo per firearm.

RobGR
04-07-2011, 11:24 PM
To the OP, watch this, though maybe you've seen it before....

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/24/digging-up-and-firing-an-old-rusty-ak-47/

Still always a good watch, though I've seen it several times over.

nick
04-08-2011, 12:15 AM
No way you're getting an AK from me for anything short of a goat. And not that three-legged one you have. :D

It's against this forum's rules to insult one's family :(

MrPlink
04-08-2011, 4:33 AM
Bigoted comment removed

bigot much :rolleyes:

MrPlink
04-08-2011, 4:35 AM
I shoot Yugo by the case and just use Windex afterwards.
Gas piston and tube. Wipe bolt face.
Wheel bearing grease to the sliding parts.
Done. No rust no muss.

Wow, wheel bearing grease?
You must have one of those fancy AKs :D

Mail Clerk
04-08-2011, 7:35 AM
So I have a question. I'm really looking into the AK to buy in a week or so. But had a question regarding corrosive ammo and AK's? If the AK' have to be cleaned immidietley after using corrosive ammo. What do all those third world countries do with their AK's after shooting it? I have a hard time bilieving after a battle they are running to a bucket of windex or something. Let's say you shot like 10k rounds of corrosive ammo and never cleaned it. Would that barrel be destroyed?
If this is the case, why would corrosive ammo be used for AK's to begin with? Wouldn't it completely negate the rifles reliability if you have to immiediatley clean it after eveytime you shoot it with the ammo made for it?


I never try to shoot any corrosive ammo through any of my rifles unless I can plan on cleaning it up as soon as I can at home OR the range will allow me to do it there. The whole market is flooded with inexpensive imported ammo cuz what use to be considered reasonable generic white/yellow box American is so expensive now. How anyone can budget on a weekend outing with the guys can't be done.

Mail Clerk

CSACANNONEER
04-08-2011, 9:53 AM
Over the last two years, I have shot a lot of Yugo surplus through a few of my AKs. I have not cleaned/lubed them or even used windex on them. I keep waiting for the corrosive ammo to do what everyone says it will but, after two years, I still don't seee any signs of corrosion. So, if you shoot corrosive ammo and have to wait a day or two (or maybe even a year) before cleaning, don't worry about it. After all, it's just an AK.

This has been covered. .... been known to use motor oil or some crap and a makeshift boresnake ....... .

What's wrong with using used motor oil? I'll tell you, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT! If they are using some sort of boresnake, they are spending morre time and effort cleaning their AKs than I do cleaning any of mine.

AK's are almost ALWAYS chrome-lined in the bore and chamber. From what I remember the bolt, and carrier are also chrome-lined, then finished in some sort of black to also enhance corriosion resistance.

If any other parts start to rust over time, they are probably cheaply replaced by their unit armorers over there in the Eastern European militaries that you find those weapons and (corrosive) ammo issued in.

The AK platform is such an inexpensive rifle to produce (relatively) which means that if a rifle is completely scrapped by corrosive fouling, just issue the operator another one and problem solved.

Yugo AKs are NEVER chrome lined and a lot of the newly produced ones using US made barrels aren't either.

Gio
04-08-2011, 9:53 AM
This is how I clean my AK-

NSFW - Language

ioAhKvWkdaI

Rekrab
04-08-2011, 10:03 AM
The only time I've had to worry about rusting on my AKs is with my new Yugo RPK. I took it out last weekend and shot quite a bit of corrosive surplus through it. Before the end of the day I was already finding rust on the gas system, but the barrel looked fine.

I left my Saiga uncleaned for a few weeks after shooting corrosive once and the barrel was fine. Only had a little rust on the gas piston.

pacifico23
04-08-2011, 12:27 PM
Over the last two years, I have shot a lot of Yugo surplus through a few of my AKs. I have not cleaned/lubed them or even used windex on them. I keep waiting for the corrosive ammo to do what everyone says it will but, after two years, I still don't seee any signs of corrosion. So, if you shoot corrosive ammo and have to wait a day or two (or maybe even a year) before cleaning, don't worry about it. After all, it's just an AK.



What's wrong with using used motor oil? I'll tell you, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT! If they are using some sort of boresnake, they are spending morre time and effort cleaning their AKs than I do cleaning any of mine.



Yugo AKs are NEVER chrome lined and a lot of the newly produced ones using US made barrels aren't either.


Now this is what I was looking for! I just couldnt imagine an AK being barrel being destroyed if you dont clean it after shooting 100 round or so. I mean I just cant see hajis or african militias being so pertinent on cleaning them. Im sure there are plenty of those rifles that havent literally been cleaned in years.

akjunkie
04-08-2011, 1:00 PM
I left several AKs sitting in my safe for years before taking them out to play with.
My Bulgarian and ChiCom were just fine.

My Yugo M90 (762 nato) has Rust spots all over the outside/inside of the receiver, barrel and front sight. Whatever metal the Yugos are using, it is prone to rusting. << this Rifle has less than 200rds of Portugese 308 down the barrel. Spent several hours buffing out the rust spots with Steel wool. It is now a safe queen, saturated in CLP.

Quinc
04-08-2011, 3:19 PM
You can find non-corrosive ammo just as cheap or cheaper. I have been using Herters and Wolf that I picked up for .16-.20 cents a round shipped.

Rekrab
04-08-2011, 4:04 PM
Sadly, bimetal or steel core really isn't an option for some of us. I wish it was though...

timbo399
04-08-2011, 11:04 PM
I hope I'm not using the same Portugese milsurp 7.62! I bought 1,000 rounds a couple years ago and have shot 800 rounds of it down my Springfield M1A Scout over the past year. Although I do clean my rifle after every couple range trips, nothing too serious just standard cleaning with Hoppes, etc, I certainly don't clean it as if it were corrosive. Maybe some Portugese Milsurp corrosive and some not? I've loved this ammo, most accurate milsurp ever shot through my M1A and rifle still looks and fires as good as new.

vintagedude88
04-08-2011, 11:26 PM
Yugo AKs are NEVER chrome lined and a lot of the newly produced ones using US made barrels aren't either.

Why would the Yugo's make a barrel that isn't chrome lined and then produce ammo for it that is corrosive?:confused:

CSACANNONEER
04-09-2011, 7:58 AM
Why would the Yugo's make a barrel that isn't chrome lined and then produce ammo for it that is corrosive?:confused:

The same reason every other country (including the US) used to do this. Technology and costs have a lot to do with it. Yes, our military arms were not chrome lined for most of our history. Yet, until the last 50 years or so, even the primers we used were corrosive.

Mail Clerk
04-09-2011, 8:32 AM
Sadly, bimetal or steel core really isn't an option for some of us. I wish it was though...


Rekrab,

You got that right buddy!!!! Don't even try going to Angeles cuz they'll confiscate that ammo fast and won't let you shoot unless it's a non-steel cased bullet and most if not all imported ammo is steel. Heck they even won't allow Wolf.:(


Mail Clerk

pyro3k2
04-09-2011, 10:28 AM
Yugo mil-surp is brass cased and non-steel core, it won't attract a magnent and its (IMO) the best mil-surp AK ammo out there.

mydogsmonkey
04-09-2011, 11:02 AM
i think of russain 5.45x39 when i hear corrosive, yugo surplus is not corrosive, now the russian stuff rusts parts pretty quick. try shooting one and leaving it alone for about an hour or two, the muzzle underneath the brake should be a bit rusted by then

zfields
04-09-2011, 11:15 AM
yugo surplus is most deffintly corrosive.

CSACANNONEER
04-09-2011, 12:05 PM
Rekrab,

You got that right buddy!!!! Don't even try going to Angeles cuz they'll confiscate that ammo fast and won't let you shoot unless it's a non-steel cased bullet and most if not all imported ammo is steel. Heck they even won't allow Wolf.:(


Mail Clerk

Since when won't they let you shoot steel cased ammo? I have never had a problem shooting steel cased wolf that has a non-magnetic projectile. Yea, Wolf hasn't made any for a few years but, I still have some and Angeles used to sell it too. Unless their rules have changed in the last few weeks, you can still shoot non-magnetic WOLF there.

Kestryll
04-09-2011, 1:01 PM
bigot much :rolleyes:

Apparently yes, and if he does it again he'll be out on his butt.

Erin
04-09-2011, 1:55 PM
That's kinda stupid. You always here how reliable they are like picking them up out of rivers after laying in the button for years on end and still able to shoot.

they will still shoot but i wouldnt do that to one of mine. i do like knowing that i could though. any gun will be better cleaned and lubed. i clean my ak every time it goes to the range, even if it only went 100 or so

pyro3k2
04-09-2011, 5:43 PM
i think of russain 5.45x39 when i hear corrosive, yugo surplus is not corrosive, now the russian stuff rusts parts pretty quick. try shooting one and leaving it alone for about an hour or two, the muzzle underneath the brake should be a bit rusted by then

The yugo ammo is most def. corrosive, but I don't think the russian stuff is anymore corrosive than the Yugo. If I remember the science behind this correctly, the primers themselves are not corrosive or able to eat through metal. What ends up happening is the salt as it dries pulls all the water from the surrounding air. So you end up with a highly concentrated area of water that oxyidizes the metal. Yes parts can rust in a matter of 30 minutes or so depending on where you live i.e. the coast But I live in the central valley which is very dry and have gone literally months between cleanings without so much as a hint of rust. I shoot yugo and russian mil-surp depending on which ammo can is closer to me when I'm heading to the range.

Spirit 1
04-09-2011, 8:26 PM
The yugo ammo is most def. corrosive, but I don't think the russian stuff is anymore corrosive than the Yugo. If I remember the science behind this correctly, the primers themselves are not corrosive or able to eat through metal. What ends up happening is the salt as it dries pulls all the water from the surrounding air. So you end up with a highly concentrated area of water that oxyidizes the metal. Yes parts can rust in a matter of 30 minutes or so depending on where you live i.e. the coast But I live in the central valley which is very dry and have gone literally months between cleanings without so much as a hint of rust. I shoot yugo and russian mil-surp depending on which ammo can is closer to me when I'm heading to the range.

I think you're absolutely right on the environment factors! It all depends on relative humidity, whether the corrosive salts will start consuming metal or not. The lower the relative humidity, the safer you are.

Also some parts of a gun have more moisture develop than others, like say an enclosed gas piston tube compared to an open barrel. Both are subject to heat/cool cycles which develops moisture, but the one that then holds the moisture enclosed inside sees the greater damage.

LBDamned
04-09-2011, 9:54 PM
I shoot Yugo by the case and just use Windex afterwards.
Gas piston and tube. Wipe bolt face.
Wheel bearing grease to the sliding parts.
Done. No rust no muss.

I'm an AK noob... I've read several times that using Windex or dish soap for corrosive is recommended (as you've stated)...

Is this to say normal bore cleaner like Hopes 9 is not enough?... As for rust, I usually spray a thin coat of Birchwood Casey Sheath on my pistols (after cleaning with gun scrubber or similar) - is that not suitable for the AK after corrosive ammo?...

I bought a bunch of Yugo surplus at recent gun show and want to be sure I dont have problems...

1forall
04-09-2011, 10:03 PM
I've only shot corrosive ammo out of my Wasr, Draco, and VZ58. No signs of rust(yet), I've even waited till the next day before I flushed or cleaned them.

pyro3k2
04-09-2011, 11:35 PM
I'm an AK noob... I've read several times that using Windex or dish soap for corrosive is recommended (as you've stated)...

Is this to say normal bore cleaner like Hopes 9 is not enough?... As for rust, I usually spray a thin coat of Birchwood Casey Sheath on my pistols (after cleaning with gun scrubber or similar) - is that not suitable for the AK after corrosive ammo?...

I bought a bunch of Yugo surplus at recent gun show and want to be sure I dont have problems...

You can use plain water to clean after corrosive ammo, the water will disolve the salts and you simply wipe them off your firearm with a rag of some sort. I personally stopped using water and switched to windex simply because I like the way it makes my safe smell after I have cleaned a few firearms :D btw Hoppes #9 is plenty good for corrosive ammo.

MrPlink
04-09-2011, 11:46 PM
I personally stopped using water and switched to windex simply because I like the way it makes my safe smell after I have cleaned a few firearms :D btw Hoppes #9 is plenty good for corrosive ammo.

I use Windex because its already in a bottle and Im lazy

C.W.M.V.
04-10-2011, 12:10 AM
Over the last two years, I have shot a lot of Yugo surplus through a few of my AKs. I have not cleaned/lubed them or even used windex on them. I keep waiting for the corrosive ammo to do what everyone says it will but, after two years, I still don't seee any signs of corrosion. So, if you shoot corrosive ammo and have to wait a day or two (or maybe even a year) before cleaning, don't worry about it. After all, it's just an AK.



What's wrong with using used motor oil? I'll tell you, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT! If they are using some sort of boresnake, they are spending morre time and effort cleaning their AKs than I do cleaning any of mine.



Yugo AKs are NEVER chrome lined and a lot of the newly produced ones using US made barrels aren't either.

It seems that we have the same cleaning policy for our AK's.:D

Ive actually never cleaned mine, and Ive never shot anything but corrosive russian/Yugo surplus. Every 6 months or so Ill feel guilty so Ill pull them out and check for rust. Nothing yet!

Ive personally pulled AK's out of irrigation ditches after thyve sat at the bottom and collected mud for 3-4 years. pop the top cover, dump all the mud out, lock and load and they fire just as easy as you please.

If your really worried about using corrosive ammo and wont shoot it because your worried about rust, you dont have the proper mindset to be an AK owner, go get an AR they are the ones that need maintenance :D
I forget where I heard it, probably here but anyway "A soldier has to keep his M16 running, while the AK 47 keeps the soldier alive"

mydogsmonkey
04-10-2011, 12:12 AM
The yugo ammo is most def. corrosive, but I don't think the russian stuff is anymore corrosive than the Yugo. If I remember the science behind this correctly, the primers themselves are not corrosive or able to eat through metal. What ends up happening is the salt as it dries pulls all the water from the surrounding air. So you end up with a highly concentrated area of water that oxyidizes the metal. Yes parts can rust in a matter of 30 minutes or so depending on where you live i.e. the coast But I live in the central valley which is very dry and have gone literally months between cleanings without so much as a hint of rust. I shoot yugo and russian mil-surp depending on which ammo can is closer to me when I'm heading to the range.

crazy thing is i have a bulgarian ak-74 i've completely refinished in parkerizing literally every part, and its already rusting so i know which parts have rusted from using russian ammo, my ak47s i've had on the otherhand shooting yugo surplus don't show any. and btw, my ak74 rusts in the desert out in barstow in 118 degree weather lol

LBDamned
04-10-2011, 11:12 AM
You can use plain water to clean after corrosive ammo, the water will disolve the salts and you simply wipe them off your firearm with a rag of some sort. I personally stopped using water and switched to windex simply because I like the way it makes my safe smell after I have cleaned a few firearms :D btw Hoppes #9 is plenty good for corrosive ammo.

thanks for the response... I'll clean the AK same as pistols and shotty (Hoppes #9 for bore, Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber, and Sheath for everything else) - hopefully I wont have issues with the Yugo ammo...

pyro3k2
04-10-2011, 2:57 PM
crazy thing is i have a bulgarian ak-74 i've completely refinished in parkerizing literally every part, and its already rusting so i know which parts have rusted from using russian ammo, my ak47s i've had on the otherhand shooting yugo surplus don't show any. and btw, my ak74 rusts in the desert out in barstow in 118 degree weather lol

Damn that is crazy, what parts are rusting on your 74? The only possibility I can think of is if they are parts used for 922r complaince. From my experience the less american parts in a russian firearm the better.