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Rugerdaddy
04-06-2011, 5:48 PM
I thought about putting this on the CCW forum, but it really has more to do with the law. Somebody let me know if I should move it.

I know there have been some discussions about this, but my question has a different wrinkle so I'll throw it out. Its proper answer may need a lawyer.

A CCW holder teaches at a school. He is exempt from the 1000' restriction, but knows his district wouldn't want him to carry on school grounds, so parks his vehicle on the public street in front of the school, locking the unloaded gun in a case, and putting the ammo in an unlocked console (legal to my knowledge). He locks the vehicle and goes inside for the day to teach, knowing the pistol is at least somewhat available for emergencies, and for stops on the way home.

Now, however, the CCW holder is not in possession of the gun. Is it still legal to be within 1000' of the school, or is he now in violation of the 1000' restriction?

Thanks for your opinions and any other perspective that I may not have considered. If your opinion is based on particular legal experience or knowledge, I would appreciate it if you mention that. If not, I am still very interested in you input.

CalBear
04-06-2011, 6:13 PM
Legally, you should be fine:

Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
under any of the following circumstances:

(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked
container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.

paul0660
04-06-2011, 6:21 PM
Any person..................he is good.

Some CCW holders believe that they can "store" their permitted weapon in their car without unloading and locking it in a container. I suppose that belief would extend to school zones. I disagree with that interpretation, personally.

CalBear
04-06-2011, 6:34 PM
Any person..................he is good.

Some CCW holders believe that they can "store" their permitted weapon in their car without unloading and locking it in a container. I suppose that belief would extend to school zones. I disagree with that interpretation, personally.
I think that would actually be OK. Even if storing a weapon in a trunk is considered "possession" of a firearm, CCW holders are still explicitly exempted from the GFSZ law, as well as the CCW ban.

Rugerdaddy
04-06-2011, 7:02 PM
Legally, you should be fine:

Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
under any of the following circumstances:

(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked
container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.

What statute is that, for my reference? Thanks.

paul0660
04-06-2011, 7:09 PM
What statute is that, for my reference? Thanks.

626.9

paul0660
04-06-2011, 7:11 PM
I think that would actually be OK. Even if storing a weapon in a trunk is considered "possession" of a firearm, CCW holders are still explicitly exempted from the GFSZ law, as well as the CCW ban.

Calbear, are you saying you think that simply unholstering and slipping one's handgun under the seat is ok if one has a permit?

How about if one is going on vacation for 3 months, and does the same in the airport parking lot (assuming that is not a prohibited area).

I think the latter is an enormous stretch, and by extension, the former as well.

CalBear
04-06-2011, 7:23 PM
Calbear, are you saying you think that simply unholstering and slipping one's handgun under the seat is ok if one has a permit?

How about if one is going on vacation for 3 months, and does the same in the airport parking lot (assuming that is not a prohibited area).

I think the latter is an enormous stretch, and by extension, the former as well.
Yeah, I think that's fine. Remember that these activities are legal by default, and must be prohibited by the penal code in some way to become illegal.

CCW holders are exempted from 626.9 wholesale. It says so in 626.9(l).

12025 prohibits carrying concealed, which is defined as:

(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he
or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.

This section prohibits concealed weapons in vehicles if the person is driving the vehicle or an occupant of the vehicle. It's pretty commonly accepted on CG that leaving your weapon in the trunk while you do other stuff is OK.

As for CCW holders, 12025 does not affect carrying a concealed weapon if the person is a permit holder.

Basically, I see nothing in the penal code that suggests to me what you're describing is illegal. It may seem unbelievable, but until I see sections of the PC that say otherwise, I'll assume it's legal.

hoffmang
04-06-2011, 7:32 PM
A CCW holder may leave his loaded handgun (that is listed on his permit) in his car loaded and unlocked. I don't recommend it, but want it to be clear as I've been known to lock my loaded 12050 permitted weapon in a locked box if I need to go somewhere prohibited.

-Gene

Ten Rounder
04-06-2011, 7:48 PM
^^^^^

What Gene said is correct, anything else is over thinking the issues

paul0660
04-06-2011, 7:53 PM
activities are legal by default

Good point. I have to do more think'n on this.

paul0660
04-06-2011, 7:54 PM
^^^^^

What Gene said is correct, anything else is over thinking the issues

Or less think'n.

CalBear
04-06-2011, 8:00 PM
Or less think'n.
It's what happens when an entire penal code is designed with little to no rational thought in the first place. We're left making up for lost time, creating flow charts to explain the absurdity, and writing essay-length threads trying to cobble together some clarity in the ethereal fog that is the CA PC.

Fortunately, in this case, I think it is actually pretty clear that it's ok for a CCW holder to leave his CCW gun loaded and unlocked in his car while doing something else.

Librarian
04-06-2011, 8:14 PM
It's what happens when an entire penal code is designed with little to no rational thought in the first place. We're left making up for lost time, creating flow charts to explain the absurdity, and writing essay-length threads trying to cobble together some clarity in the ethereal fog that is the CA PC.

That's the truth ....

Rugerdaddy
04-07-2011, 9:29 AM
Thanks for all your valuable input.