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Mimi_T
04-06-2011, 1:29 AM
Hi everybody! I need some help/info. I have a weird question on conversions for single shot exemption.

Say I want to buy a gun that's not on the roster, and the seller is out of state. I realize that I can go though the single shot exemption to make it legally okay to bring such a gun into CA.

However, the gun I want is a revolver being sold used, and the cylinder is missing. So I can't exactly have the cylinder be modified to be single shot, since, well, there's no cylinder.
(It's a rare gun, and I'm tempted to take my chances and see if I can buy a cylinder separate later, if it's legal to do, of course.)

Am I screwed and I should just look for a different seller with a complete gun, or is there a way to make this work?
At this point, would that even be considered a gun since it's non-functional? (They're selling it for parts, it's a pawn shop... but of course I want to know how to do it legally, and would have it go through an FFL. I just have to figure out a way to make it legally able to come into CA.)


And since I'm asking about this, I figured I might as well ask an additional thing I was wondering, in case I get a complete gun from instead of the one missing the cylinder:
For revolvers, is epoxy in the cylinder enough for it to be considered a permanent conversion to single shot?

And if yes, for it to be a legal conversion does the epoxy has to be put in by someone with an FFL07, or can anyone just go to the hardware store and get some epoxy?
(Something tells me that it being CA law, it's probably not as simple as just any of us doing it, and it has to be done by an FFL07, but I thought I'd ask anyway just in case... If it's legal to just ask a seller out of state to epoxy that baby up and ship it to the nearest FFL here, it would be so wonderful. :D )

CaliB&R
04-06-2011, 2:58 AM
For revolvers, it need to be made into Single Action, Single-Shot is for semi-aitos.

The 'single-action revolver' exemption also requires a min. 3" barrel length, and a min. 7.5" overall length (measured parallel to bore) when assembled. The gun must also hold 5 or more rounds (problem there w/ no cylinder).

bwiese
04-06-2011, 3:08 AM
Hi everybody! I need some help/info. I have a weird question on conversions for single shot exemption.

Say I want to buy a gun that's not on the roster, and the seller is out of state. I realize that I can go though the single shot exemption to make it legally okay to bring such a gun into CA.

Single shot exemption is only really applicable to automatics.


However, the gun I want is a revolver being sold used, and the cylinder is missing. So I can't exactly have the cylinder be modified to be single shot, since, well, there's no cylinder.

Again, single-shot not really applicable except if you could fashion a 1-shot cylinder replacement element, fine - provided rest of gun was dimensionally compliant.

(It's a rare gun, and I'm tempted to take my chances and see if I can buy a cylinder separate later, if it's legal to do, of course.)

Nope.

Am I screwed and I should just look for a different seller with a complete gun, or is there a way to make this work?

Yes, find a different seller unless you want to do some complex machining. And after that, the gun would have to WORK and be safe.

Now, a Smith & Wesson revolver that has a cylinder and works (!) could be converted to a single-action by removal of the DA sear.

Mimi_T
04-06-2011, 5:37 AM
Thank you so much for the answers, guys! And so quick too, even though it was still the middle of the night!

It's 5:30 am and I'm half asleep right now, so sorry if my next questions are poorly worded, but...:

Single shot exemption is only really applicable to automatics.


Ah, I thought it might be the case. :( Too bad.

I had heard it might be possible to plug up all but one of the chambers with epoxy to make it only able to shoot one round, which would save the trouble to build a new cylinder, while still being a supposedly "permanent" conversion like when a magazine is modified to 10 rounds via putting epoxy in a 20 or 30 rounds mag.

I've seen mentioned before that people do it to magazines to make 10/30s, so I was hoping that it would indeed work the same way for a gun and be considered a permanent conversion, but it might be trickier since it's a gun instead of a mag? :confused:



Now, a Smith & Wesson revolver that has a cylinder and works (!) could be converted to a single-action by removal of the DA sear.

If I can go the single-action route it would be awesome. It would make things much easier.

I know of another seller with a complete gun, so more likely to be possible to modify in a way to make it CA legal.

Do you know by any chance, if it's possible to modify a Mateba Unica model 6 into single-action?

This may be a very dumb question, it being one of the few semi-auto revolvers. Right now I just woke up and can't help but think my question sounds stupid, but I had to ask anyway. I'm all hopeful because it's right the model I wanted, and I'm scared someone else will buy it before I can figure out if there's a way to make it legal to bring into CA. :p

I'm afraid that it won't work because the barrel isn't long enough, so no matter what I'll have to get an FFL07 to make new parts. Maybe I should just go back to waiting until I find one being sold by a CA resident. :sweatdrop:

sanjosebmx
04-06-2011, 7:15 AM
For revolvers, it need to be made into Single Action, Single-Shot is for semi-aitos.

The 'single-action revolver' exemption also requires a min. 3" barrel length, and a min. 7.5" overall length (measured parallel to bore) when assembled. The gun must also hold 5 or more rounds (problem there w/ no cylinder).

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard....such a bad mood right now..:chris:

Bobula
04-06-2011, 7:31 AM
Now what about a Mateba Unica 6, as that may be the gun in question. It is a TRUE semi auto revolver where the action resets the hammer into a single action trigger pull.
Would it meet the revolver criteria?
Or is it a cylinder fed semi auto?

bwiese
04-06-2011, 11:23 AM
Now what about a Mateba Unica 6, as that may be the gun in question. It is a TRUE semi auto revolver where the action resets the hammer into a single action trigger pull.
Would it meet the revolver criteria?
Or is it a cylinder fed semi auto?

That's an oddball. I do not have details of its internal operation.

For Roster exemptions, I always recommend using the most direct approach - single-shot exemption for pistols (1911s. Glocks, etc) and single-action revolver exemption for revolvers. Mixing and matching approaches could lead to problems by using the wrong method on the wrong type of gun and perhaps not getting the dimensional compliance right -- or radically raise the cost of modification (a 1-shot nonrotating cylinder is exepensive and takes smithing/testing to be safe and usable.)

These exemption procedures have held up well under the stress of aggressive DOJ scruntiny, and people should not start embellishing on their own without detailed discussion/knowledge of gun architecture - and the knowledgable cooperation of a Leadership FFL.

Speaking broadly about the Mateba, I believe it'd still readily be considered a revolver even though its action differs (gas driven instead of spring action driven). Revolvers revolve, and revolvers vs. pistols are separate categories. The rare Ruger Hawkeyes would be interesting exceptions: they are single-shot pistols based on a single-action Blackhawk design; the revolving cylinder has been replaced with a thinner slab-like tilt-out chamber that does not rotate.

I think the gas flow/cocking behavior would need to be modified so it's blocked and not resettable by hand. The gun would also have to be cockable manually, an action that is separate and decoupled from the trigger pull/hammer drop action (if possible on this gun, dunno if it's DAO==DA only). Removing the 'semiautoness' should render it single action. If gun has 5+ round capacity + 3.5+" min bbl length + 7.5+" min overall length and it's no longer semiauto and thus we'd have an exempt single-action revolver per 12133PC.

Mimi_T
04-07-2011, 12:21 AM
Now what about a Mateba Unica 6, as that may be the gun in question. It is a TRUE semi auto revolver where the action resets the hammer into a single action trigger pull.
Would it meet the revolver criteria?
Or is it a cylinder fed semi auto?

Thank you for posting in the thread! :) You explain it so much better than me, since you know that gun much better than I do. (I have not even yet seen a real one in person... :sweatdrop:)

The Mateba is so different than other guns, it pretty much deserves its own category in between revolvers and single-auto pistols. If only it was an simpler gun I'm after, it would make things easier to convert etc.!



I think the gas flow/cocking behavior would need to be modified so it's blocked and not resettable by hand. The gun would also have to be cockable manually, an action that is separate and decoupled from the trigger pull/hammer drop action (if possible on this gun, dunno if it's DAO==DA only). Removing the 'semiautoness' should render it single action. If gun has 5+ round capacity + 3.5+" min bbl length + 7.5+" min overall length and it's no longer semiauto and thus we'd have an exempt single-action revolver per 12133PC.

Thank you so much for the explanation! It's much more understandable now.
And yeah, I definitely want to play things completely safe, I wouldn't want to take any chances of the DOJ deciding it's not a legal conversion.

I'll have to see if it's possible to convert it without it being too expensive, and depending on how that goes I might end up having to continue waiting to see if one pops up for sale in CA instead. That would be much simpler. :)