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DULLYJAY
04-04-2011, 6:35 PM
I live with in a few blocks of a school. Can you still have a home FFL if a school is near by? If any of you have a Home FFL, any tips will be great. THX

wellerjohn
04-04-2011, 6:56 PM
I live with in a few blocks of a school. Can you still have a home FFL if a school is near by? If any of you have a Home FFL, any tips will be great. THX

Belive it is OK my FFL works from his home thats about 150 yards from a high school.

ke6guj
04-04-2011, 7:04 PM
it depends on your local zoning laws.

thedrickel
04-04-2011, 8:02 PM
Your city will not allow it, trust me. Would you like to join with me in assraping the city into compliance with the 2nd amendment?

Tier One Arms
04-04-2011, 8:08 PM
Belive it is OK my FFL works from his home thats about 150 yards from a high school.

GET A GUN?

DULLYJAY
04-04-2011, 8:50 PM
Will be moving back to Elk Grove soon.It a no go here in the East Bay I'm sure.Your city will not allow it, trust me. Would you like to join with me in assraping the city into compliance with the 2nd amendment?

oni.dori
04-05-2011, 1:41 AM
Your city will not allow it, trust me. Would you like to join with me in assraping the city into compliance with the 2nd amendment?

I honestly don't think there is a member on here that wouldn't, nor would they like to stop at just the city.

mofugly13
04-05-2011, 5:18 AM
Your city will not allow it, trust me. Would you like to join with me in assraping the city into compliance with the 2nd amendment?

Yes, I would.

tenpercentfirearms
04-05-2011, 5:41 AM
Don't listen to any of the FUDmiesters on here. Simply go ask your local agency that would be responsible for your business license. Those are the only people that are going to know whether they will issue you a business license that says, "Valid for the retail sale of firearms" on it.

The ATF and DOJ don't care where your business is. They only care that you have a local business license that specifically says, "Valid for the retail sale of firearms" on the business license.

Homebrew2
04-05-2011, 5:59 AM
... local business license that specifically says, "Valid for the retail sale of firearms" on the business license.

How is it handled in an unincorporated area of a county that does not require a "business" license?

DULLYJAY
04-05-2011, 6:28 AM
Thanx for info. guys.

wellerjohn
04-05-2011, 7:02 AM
GET A GUN?

YES :D

greasemonkey
04-05-2011, 7:12 AM
How is it handled in an unincorporated area of a county that does not require a "business" license?

The City doesn't require you to have a business license from the City if you're in unincorporated and don't do business in the City; but it sounds like the ATF/DOJ require you to have a business license, irregardless (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StJ-OK4jiSY) of city/county.

As far as business, we have to have a business license with the City to officially operate on the City's municipal airport even though we're based in unincorporated and are not otherwise required to have one to perform maintenance/repairs on aircraft.


GET A GUN?
Did my first transfer from out of State through him, went well; very, very helpful...I was a bit green at the time, that's when I finally realized how asinine our State laws are and started looking for ways to get involved in the 2A arena.

CS Sports
04-05-2011, 7:16 AM
Don't listen to any of the FUDmiesters on here. Simply go ask your local agency that would be responsible for your business license. Those are the only people that are going to know whether they will issue you a business license that says, "Valid for the retail sale of firearms" on it.

The ATF and DOJ don't care where your business is. They only care that you have a local business license that specifically says, "Valid for the retail sale of firearms" on the business license.

Not necessarily. There is a class of FFLs in CA called "Exempt" dealers. Basically you can do anything a regular FFL can do except transfers. DOJ gives you a CFD#. If you are going to be doing mail order sales only, gunsmith work only, or something similar you are not required to have a business license that says "Valid for the retail sales of firearms".

I was so licensed for 7 years, and know several others who operate the same way.

Further, if business licenses are not required in your area you can get a letter from your local regulatory agency that says that firearms dealers are not required to have licenses (or some such language) and that will suffice for DOJ to include you on the Centralized List.

Serpentine
04-05-2011, 8:27 AM
In Santa Clara County, FFL's in unincorporated areas get their "Valid for the retail sales of firearms" local business license from the county Sheriff.

tenpercentfirearms
04-05-2011, 8:55 AM
Not necessarily. There is a class of FFLs in CA called "Exempt" dealers. Basically you can do anything a regular FFL can do except transfers. DOJ gives you a CFD#. If you are going to be doing mail order sales only, gunsmith work only, or something similar you are not required to have a business license that says "Valid for the retail sales of firearms".

I'd like to see references to this.

ke6guj
04-05-2011, 1:45 PM
Not necessarily. There is a class of FFLs in CA called "Exempt" dealers. Basically you can do anything a regular FFL can do except transfers. DOJ gives you a CFD#. If you are going to be doing mail order sales only, gunsmith work only, or something similar you are not required to have a business license that says "Valid for the retail sales of firearms".

I was so licensed for 7 years, and know several others who operate the same way.

Further, if business licenses are not required in your area you can get a letter from your local regulatory agency that says that firearms dealers are not required to have licenses (or some such language) and that will suffice for DOJ to include you on the Centralized List.

I'm pretty sure that one of the local pawn shops is set up this way. They sell on GunBroker (with a "no CA sales" mention in the adds), but I had never seen any firearms there. I looked them up on the FFL list and saw that they have an 02FFL, so the next time I was in the area, I asked them about that and they said that that even though they have the federal license, they don't have all the state licenses to sell in state, so they only do out-of-state sales.

Homebrew2
04-05-2011, 5:50 PM
The City doesn't require you to have a business license from the City if you're in unincorporated and don't do business in the City; but it sounds like the ATF/DOJ require you to have a business license, irregardless (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StJ-OK4jiSY) of city/county.
As far as business, we have to have a business license with the City to officially operate on the City's municipal airport even though we're based in unincorporated and are not otherwise required to have one to perform maintenance/repairs on aircraft.
2A arena.

Sorry, I can't figure out why you quoted my post. There's nothing in your reply that specifically addresses my, quoted, question to 10%arms ... though the cartoon was funny.
The thread is about a FFL business. Not about "a" business. Having owned and operated [non FFL] businesses in an unincorporated area of Fresno County, I already know all about what you posted :confused:

jtmkinsd
04-05-2011, 6:01 PM
A couple clicks is all one needs to find the proper info...you need to get a letter from the county stating no business license for retail sale of firearms is required and that would work nicely.

From DOJ website:

e.A local license granted by the duly constituted licensing authority, valid for one year from the date of issuance, and in one of the following forms:
1.In the form prescribed by the Attorney General;
2.A regulatory or business license that states on its face, "Valid for Retail Sales of Firearms" and endorsed by the signature of the issuing authority; or

3.A letter from the licensing authority stating that the jurisdiction does not require any form of regulatory or business license or does not otherwise restrict or regulate the sale of firearms. After obtaining the above licenses, an Application for Centralized List and appropriate fees are submitted to the DOJ. Upon approval of the application, the dealer will be given a CFD number and placed on the Centralized List of firearms dealers

CS Sports
04-05-2011, 7:25 PM
I'd like to see references to this.



California FFL Holders

California FFL holders (other than Type 03 or 06) must enroll in the California Firearms Licensee Check (CFLC) Program to ship firearms to another California FFL. They must also be listed on the State of California Centralized List as either a dealer, manufacturer, or exempt. Once enrolled in CFLC, California FFLs will be able to obtain Firearms Shipment Approval letters to ship firearms to other FFL holders within the state.

A CA FFL must provide an FFL shipper with his or her five digit Centralized List number so that the shipper can obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval letter from the Bureau of Firearms.
Enrolling in the Centralized List for California Exempted FFL Holders (CLEFFL)

To enroll in the Centralized List for Exempted FFLs (CLEFFL), you must submit a completed Application and 12070 PC Exemption Declaration for the Centralized List of Exempted Federal Firearms Licensees form (BOF07-10) PDF logo [PDF 60 kb / 2 pg], a copy of your valid FFL, a valid Certificate of Eligibility, and the appropriate fee to the California Department of Justice (CADOJ). The Bureau of Firearms will send you a "Centralized List of Exempt Firearms Licensees Notice" to confirm your status.


Source (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcoverview.php)


Here's the application (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/CLEFFLApp.pdf) for the Exempt list. Note no requirement to submit a business license with "Valid for the retail sales of firearms".

I was on the exempt list for about 7 years before I decided to switch to the CLFD so that I could facilitate transfers. My old CFD# (Exempt List) started with a 7, my new number (Regular List) starts with a 2.

Exempt list was great, DOJ pretty much left me alone (except for the pesky $115 annual fee and annual COE renewal fee). I shipped and received hundreds of firearms, all with the appropriate CFLC# coming and going. I was able to transfer long guns into my personal inventory, but unfortunately could not transfer handguns because I did not have access to the DROS system.

DOJ only requires a business license (along with FFL and COE of course), and that business license does not need to say "Valid for the Retail Sales of Firearms". When I decided to make the switch, I had my city Business Development Office type "Valid for the Retail Sales of Firearms" on my business license, sent it off to DOJ with a letter explaining my desire to switch and completed CLFD application and I had my new CFD# and DROS login in less than a week.

Exempt List status lets you do everything except DROS.

DULLYJAY
04-05-2011, 7:41 PM
Good info.. Thx

ETD1010
04-05-2011, 10:28 PM
Not necessarily. There is a class of FFLs in CA called "Exempt" dealers. Basically you can do anything a regular FFL can do except transfers. DOJ gives you a CFD#. If you are going to be doing mail order sales only, gunsmith work only, or something similar you are not required to have a business license that says "Valid for the retail sales of firearms".

I was so licensed for 7 years, and know several others who operate the same way.

Further, if business licenses are not required in your area you can get a letter from your local regulatory agency that says that firearms dealers are not required to have licenses (or some such language) and that will suffice for DOJ to include you on the Centralized List.

That exemption, I believe, refers to those not doing the DROS process, which means you can't really sell firearms. . . But the FFL license process still requires the city to approve of the whole thing.

jtmkinsd
04-06-2011, 12:26 AM
But the FFL license process still requires the city to approve of the whole thing.

Well, by "approve" I assume you mean issue a business license (it's only the formality of a payment in most cases). You can get an FFL without a license to sell firearms...you just couldn't do much with it without the retail license.

If all I wanted to do is gunsmithing, I would not need a business license that is "valid for retail sales of firearms", because I would not be selling any firearms. It is much easier to obtain a home-based business license that doesn't say "valid for retail sales of firearms".

tenpercentfirearms
04-06-2011, 5:53 AM
Source (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcoverview.php)

Thank you! I appreciate the knowledge.

bluebaron
04-06-2011, 4:20 PM
I'm interested in setting up as a gunsmith in Riverside County working from home. I would need an FFL for to ship to/from customers.

What other requirements or challenges do any of you foresee?

bluebaron
04-06-2011, 7:10 PM
I'm interested in setting up as a gunsmith in Riverside County working from home. I would need an FFL for to ship to/from customers.

What other requirements or challenges do any of you foresee?

Sorry....I just noticed that I wouldn't have DROS access. I would want to purchase for my own collection and potentially for customer repairs and upgrades.

ke6guj
04-06-2011, 9:36 PM
Sorry....I just noticed that I wouldn't have DROS access. I would want to purchase for my own collection and potentially for customer repairs and upgrades.right there, if you tell ATF that, they will probably deny your app. Business FFLs are for business use, not to further one's collection.

bluebaron
04-07-2011, 3:35 AM
right there, if you tell ATF that, they will probably deny your app. Business FFLs are for business use, not to further one's collection.

Interesting....how does an FFL who also wants to buy a weapon for personal use from time to time go about doing that? Should they go through another FFL?

tenpercentfirearms
04-07-2011, 9:06 AM
Interesting....how does an FFL who also wants to buy a weapon for personal use from time to time go about doing that? Should they go through another FFL?

You misunderstood. The primary purpose of your FFL is for business. If you tell them the primary purpose is for your personal collection, you will be denied.

So you can use your FFL to acquire firearms for your personal collection. It is really nice because you don't have to wait or DROS long guns and don't have to wait but must DROS handguns.

However, if the only gun business you are doing is into your own personal collection, the ATF might revoke your license come renewal time since you are not engaging in business, but are merely using the FFL for your personal collection.

So if you were a gunsmith that decided to get an 01 FFL so you could also sell guns, that would be fine. Just make one A&D book for all guns and the guns you bring in and out for gunsmithing will show you are running a business. Also sell a few guns here and there. You want to show some activity. And if at the same time you are building a personal depot (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=6155509&postcount=90) that is fine too.

CHS
04-07-2011, 10:00 AM
Sorry....I just noticed that I wouldn't have DROS access. I would want to purchase for my own collection and potentially for customer repairs and upgrades.

Why wouldn't you have DROS access?

You have access to the internet.

DROS is right here: https://dros.appsolgrp.com/

tenpercentfirearms
04-07-2011, 11:01 AM
Why wouldn't you have DROS access?

You have access to the internet.

DROS is right here: https://dros.appsolgrp.com/

I believe if he was an exempt FFL, then he wouldn't have DROS access. I think he wants to go all in 01 FFL. That is the way I would do it even if I just wanted to do gunsmithing.

The key is not letting many people know you have 01 FFL status. It is hard to be a low key FFL once your buddies start realizing what you can do for them.

CHS
04-07-2011, 11:17 AM
I believe if he was an exempt FFL, then he wouldn't have DROS access. I think he wants to go all in 01 FFL. That is the way I would do it even if I just wanted to do gunsmithing.

The key is not letting many people know you have 01 FFL status. It is hard to be a low key FFL once your buddies start realizing what you can do for them.

Ahh, good point.

However, FFL's are STILL exempt from the 10 day wait, so if he did want a handgun for personal use, he could buy it through regular channels (i.e. ANOTHER store) and use his license as an exemption. He would still have to fill out a 4473 at that store, and they would have to run a DROS on him, but he would be able to take it home immediately under his exemption. That way he wouldn't actually have to have personal access to the DROS system.

I didn't realize that as an FFL you don't have to DROS long guns. So he could still transfer those into his inventory since he can just order 4473's from the ATF.

bluebaron
04-07-2011, 11:26 AM
Thanks for the info 10%....and yes you have nailed exactly what I was asking. Gunsmithing has been a hobby of mine for the last few years....been helping out friends etc.....but now thinking of taking it to the next step....still on a part time basis though.

Currently getting booked up with various armorer courses to get certifications.

I've been getting into precision target rifles modifications....most of which I can do with the exempt FFL of course. But I can see a time where I would like to replace lowers for example.....hence the need for DROS.