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View Full Version : 30 rd. mags & Lytle Creek


jpigeon
04-01-2011, 4:02 PM
I went to lytle creek firing line with the fam the other day. Started shooting with my mini 14 and 30 rd mag. Range guy comes yellin at me and demanding that I put the mag away. He says anything over 10 rounds is illegal in CA. Well I know better than that and try to explain with no success. It has been a few years since I have been to a public shooting range. Has something happened that I am not aware of?

P.S. It is just a basic mini 14 no "evil" features.

Monte
04-01-2011, 4:06 PM
Sounds like a common problem there:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=410615

jpigeon
04-01-2011, 4:08 PM
I would have just said no, but he was on the verge of having a flashback...

SickofSoCal
04-01-2011, 4:11 PM
Support your Public Lands!

MasterYong
04-01-2011, 4:19 PM
Send a letter to the management politely explaining the incident, and further explaining that you'll no longer be using their facilities (and will encourage your family and friends to discontinue use of their facilities) until this egregious error in policy has been resolved. Invite them to send you a letter or call you when they've straightened out their staff.

stitchnicklas
04-01-2011, 4:32 PM
demand a refund

cmichini
04-01-2011, 4:40 PM
Rumor has it is that the local Forest Service ranger has said 'he' requires to have people have a receipt to prove they've owned > 10 round mags since before the ban.

I'd love to see CGF contact this d-bag's superiors and confirm that this guy has created forest service policy in excess of state/federal law. I'd also love it if a legal type could chime in to see if this sort of activity/action is against the law.

However, mildly retarded the entire LC situation seems, this is a new one that the retards at LC have just flat out said they're illegal.

I'm so glad:
1) I don't live near there, and
2) I'm moving to North Carolina in a few weeks

PsychGuy274
04-01-2011, 5:40 PM
I believe that Calguns is doing something about this right now, but I'm not positive.

The Geologist
04-01-2011, 5:52 PM
I've had the same thing happen to me, but just laughed it off. I ask at the front desk now before I pay. Never had a problem since.

Quiet
04-01-2011, 5:58 PM
Did the Lytle Creek Firing Line recently changed their policy on allowing large capacity magazines?

They were fine with it last year.

It was one of the reasons why the SoCal belt fed shoots happen there.

OneApart
04-01-2011, 6:37 PM
Support your Public Lands!

:thumbsup:

rivraton
04-01-2011, 7:48 PM
Rumor has it is that the local Forest Service ranger has said 'he' requires to have people have a receipt to prove they've owned > 10 round mags since before the ban.

I'd love to see CGF contact this d-bag's superiors and confirm that this guy has created forest service policy in excess of state/federal law. I'd also love it if a legal type could chime in to see if this sort of activity/action is against the law.

However, mildly retarded the entire LC situation seems, this is a new one that the retards at LC have just flat out said they're illegal.

I'm so glad:
1) I don't live near there, and
2) I'm moving to North Carolina in a few weeks
They have done this to the mining community for years...

NapaPlinker
04-01-2011, 8:00 PM
Support your Public Lands!

THIS!

Foriegn power
04-01-2011, 8:04 PM
^, sometimes fock those places mentioned above. Support public lands!

retired
04-01-2011, 8:57 PM
The April 3, shoot and barbeque at Lytle Creek was cancelled because of this problem. As far as the particular RO mentioned, he didn't know what he was talking about obviously.

That said, the Lytle Creek Firing Line leases the land from the Forest Service and they have to follow their rules. I've been shooting there for 9yrs. and this problem didn't crop up until recently last year.

We have had 3 Calguns shoot 'n Qs there since 2009 and we had no problem then with the 10+ mags. I spoke with the manager recently to let him know why we cancelled the event and he confirmed the Ranger is the one who told them to enforce this. They have no choice or they will lose their lease.

The manager told me, as he has in the past, they like Calgun members and enjoy having us, but until things change, that is what they have to do.

The Calguns Foundation has been advised of the situation, so we will have to wait and see if there are any changes from the existing policy.

My reason for posting was to let everyone know this is not the fault of the range, tho I will agree that particular RO does need some educating.

Infamous
04-01-2011, 9:10 PM
Been thinking of shooting at that range more, but after hearing this I will spend my money elsewhere

PsychGuy274
04-01-2011, 9:11 PM
The April 3, shoot and barbeque at Lytle Creek was cancelled because of this problem. As far as the particular RO mentioned, he didn't know what he was talking about obviously.

That said, the Lytle Creek Firing Line leases the land from the Forest Service and they have to follow their rules. I've been shooting there for 9yrs. and this problem didn't crop up until recently last year.

We have had 3 Calguns shoot 'n Qs there since 2009 and we had no problem then with the 10+ mags. I spoke with the manager recently to let him know why we cancelled the event and he confirmed the Ranger is the one who told them to enforce this. They have no choice or they will lose their lease.

The manager told me, as he has in the past, they like Calgun members and enjoy having us, but until things change, that is what they have to do.

The Calguns Foundation has been advised of the situation, so we will have to wait and see if there are any changes from the existing policy.

My reason for posting was to let everyone know this is not the fault of the range, tho I will agree that particular RO does need some educating.

I understand all of that completely, but how can the Forest Service force them to abide by laws that don't exist. Can't they just tell them to go pound sand? :confused:

Librarian
04-01-2011, 9:16 PM
I understand all of that completely, but how can the Forest Service force them to abide by laws that don't exist. Can't they just tell them to go pound sand? :confused:

Terms of the lease probably run 'at the pleasure of the Forest Service' or something like that. Under such conditions, it may be like 'at will' employment - any reason or no reason can be used to break the lease. But I don't know the terms of the lease, just guessing.

MasterYong
04-01-2011, 9:47 PM
First, no one yells at me.

Second, I would tell the psycho rangemonster I am going to shoot my legal 30 rnd magazine in my legal gun.

He can call the cops if he doesn't like it.

Alright tough guy. If he tells you no and you do it anyway he'll ask you to leave. If you don't, and he calls the cops, you're trespassing (with a gun!).

Have fun with that. FUD may suck, but private property = private rules.

sacto929
04-01-2011, 10:07 PM
In which forest does Lytle Creek reside? My Google-Fu is weak tonight....

Forest Supervisors have a great deal of discretion over the operational policies of their forest. That said, they cannot create law out of thin air.

First, for something like this to be enforceable, there must be a Forest Order in effect stating as much.

Second, said Forest Order must cite the applicable Federal code, rule or regulation that gives them the authority to make such a rule.

My dealings with the USFS have primarily been on other topics, but the rules of engagement are universal. Every Forest has a list of applicable Forest Orders, typically on their website. If it's not there, call the Supervisor's office and ask for a copy. They must give you a copy. If it doesn't exist, they can pound sand. If they still hassle you, contact Regional Forester Randy Moore in Vacaville and let the Regional Office know what is happening. When you contact the Regional Forester, let them know that you will also be contacting your Congressman on the issue. The USFS really doesn't like that attention...:43:

sacto929
04-01-2011, 10:30 PM
Answered my first question. There is a Forest Order in place regarding shooting, but there is no mention of magazines.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsinternet/%21ut/p/c5/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gjAwhwtDDw9_AI8zPwhQ oY6IeDdGCqCPOBqwDLG-AAjgb6fh75uan6BdnZaY6OiooA1tkqlQ%21%21/dl3/d3/L2dJQSEvUUt3QS9ZQnZ3LzZfMjAwMDAwMDBBODBPSEhWTjJNMD AwMDAwMDA%21/?navtype=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&cid=stelprdb5155295&navid=150100000000000&pnavid=150000000000000&ss=110512&position=Not%20Yet%20Determined.Html&ttype=detail&pname=San%20Bernardino%20National%20Forest-%20Outdoor%20Safety%20

The other place "authority" for this "rule" could reside is in the range lease; however, it is unlikely that there is a clause related to this. All permits and leases for use of Forest lands are subject to review by the public. You may call and ask for a copy, or formally file a FOIA request for the info.

Either way, it seems that someone is significantly overstepping their authority in trying to enforce rules that don't exist. The Forest Supervisor and Regional Forester should be made aware.

moosegun
04-01-2011, 10:37 PM
RO is just following their rules.

Followtheir rules or go shoot somewhere else..
I have noticed alot of RO with a chip on their shoulders.

Quiet
04-01-2011, 11:15 PM
The April 3, shoot and barbeque at Lytle Creek was cancelled because of this problem. As far as the particular RO mentioned, he didn't know what he was talking about obviously.

That said, the Lytle Creek Firing Line leases the land from the Forest Service and they have to follow their rules. I've been shooting there for 9yrs. and this problem didn't crop up until recently last year.

We have had 3 Calguns shoot 'n Qs there since 2009 and we had no problem then with the 10+ mags. I spoke with the manager recently to let him know why we cancelled the event and he confirmed the Ranger is the one who told them to enforce this. They have no choice or they will lose their lease.

The manager told me, as he has in the past, they like Calgun members and enjoy having us, but until things change, that is what they have to do.

The Calguns Foundation has been advised of the situation, so we will have to wait and see if there are any changes from the existing policy.

My reason for posting was to let everyone know this is not the fault of the range, tho I will agree that particular RO does need some educating.

Thanks for the info. I did not know this.


Support your Public Lands!

To assist in finding public land to shoot on, the San Bernardino County Fish & Game Commission (http://www.specialdistricts.org/2/FishandGame/) has made maps showing where it is legal to shoot in San Bernardino County. :D

Online maps...
San Bernardino County wide shooting map (http://www.specialdistricts.org/2/FishandGame/docs/2010_cnty_shooting_areas_final.pdf)
San Bernardio mountains & valley shooting map (http://www.specialdistricts.org/2/FishandGame/docs/2010_vly_mtn_shooting_areas_finala.pdf)

Paper maps can be purchased for $2 each at...
San Benardino County Special Districts Department
157 West 5th Street (2nd Floor)
San Bernardino, CA 92415
(909) 387-5940

Merovign
04-02-2011, 11:06 AM
1) On a customer service and safety level, having an RO who wigs out, period, is a no-go for me.

2) I don't want to step on CGF's toes in dealing with this, but has anyone got the name of the ranger/office in question who are just making up law as they go along? Seems to me that might not be kosher and people ought to know about that. I'm hesitant to press the issue because of the aforementioned toe-stepping.

mprahm
04-02-2011, 1:05 PM
Funny I was there 4 weeks ago and they didnt stop me for my 30 rounders however they did ask me for my paperwork per the request of the USFS.

Noxx
04-02-2011, 1:57 PM
He would be sorry the minute he started yelling at me.

Right, because getting yourself arrested for assault / trespass / etc, or shot in the process, is a better course of action than choosing to patronize another range.

Lord save the 2A movement from internet tough guys.