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LMT4ME
03-31-2011, 7:08 PM
I searched the forum and found the rules & regs dealing with intrafamilial transfer and interstate transfer of firearms. But they seemed to deal with the issues separately (i.e. I saw no specific reference to an interstate - intrafamilial transfer). My specific question is this:

How can an my daughter who lives in North Carolina transfer to me (a Calif resident) an off-roster handgun (i.e. not on the Cal DOJ approved list) that she presently owns?

Quiet
03-31-2011, 7:14 PM
I searched the forum and found the rules & regs dealing with intrafamilial transfer and interstate transfer of firearms. But they seemed to deal with the issues separately (i.e. I saw no specific reference to an interstate - intrafamilial transfer). My specific question is this:

How can an my daughter who lives in North Carolina transfer to me (a Calif resident) an off-roster handgun (i.e. not on the Cal DOJ approved list) that she presently owns?

You find a CA FFL dealer that is knowledgable and willing to do an out-of-state intra-familial firearm gift.
Once you do that, she ships the firearm to the CA FFL dealer (with a letter stating it's a gift from daughter to father).
Once the CA FFL dealer recieves it, you 4473/DROS + 10 day wait + pay transfer fee.
After the 10 day wait, you take home & enjoy.


Since you and your daughter are residents of different states, Federal laws require the firearm be transfered through a FFL dealer in the recipiant's state of residence.
Since this is an intra-familial gift, the handgun will be exempt from the approved list.
Not all CA FFL dealers are willing to do this kind of transfer, so ask around prior to your daughter shipping the firearm.

LMT4ME
03-31-2011, 7:25 PM
You find a CA FFL dealer that is knowledgable and willing to do an out-of-state intra-familial firearm gift.
Once you do that, she ships the firearm to the CA FFL dealer (optional: with a letter stating it's a gift).
Once the CA FFL dealer recieves it, you 4473/DROS + 10 day wait + pay transfer fee.
After the 10 day wait, you take home & enjoy.


Since you and your daughter are residents of different states, Federal laws require the firearm be transfered through a FFL dealer in the recipiant's state of residence.
Since this is an intra-familial gift, the handgun will be exempt from the approved list.
Not all CA FFL dealers are willing to do this kind of transfer, so ask around prior to your daughter shipping the firearm.

Thanks

So the key is that the gun is a gift.

Quiet
03-31-2011, 7:32 PM
Thanks

So the key is that the gun is a gift.

Yes.

Intra-familial gift exempt from the approved list due to PC 12132(b).

Since you and your daughter are from different states, Federal laws require it be transfered through a CA FFL dealer.


Penal Code 12132
This chapter shall not apply to any of the following:
(b) The sale, loan, or transfer of any firearm that is exempt from the provisions of subdivision (d) of Section 12072 pursuant to any applicable exemption contained in Section 12078, if the sale, loan, or transfer complies with the requirements of that applicable exemption to subdivision (d) of Section 12072.

Penal Code 12078
(c)(1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family.
(2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family and all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person to whom the firearm is transferred shall, within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete pursuant to this paragraph shall be provided to them by the Department of Justice.
(B) The person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a basic firearms safety certificate. If taking possession on or after January 1, 2003, the person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a handgun safety certificate.
(C) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
(3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means any one of the following relationships:
(A) Parent and child.
(B) Grandparent and grandchild.

Penal Code 12072
(d) Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082.

kemasa
03-31-2011, 7:33 PM
The letter is not optional stating the relationship since if you don't have proof it is an intrafamilial transfer, the FFL is going to have a problem.

I am not sure that it has to be a gift, but it has to be an intrafamilial transfer. The DOJ form does seem to specify that requirement.


or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family and all of the following conditions are met:


"or other means" could be selling the firearm.

robnbritt
03-31-2011, 9:46 PM
Just did this at Golden State Tactical. Very easy process if FFL knows how to handle it. Father gave letter stating was giving guns as gift and listed make, model & ser#. Fill out paperwork, 10 day wait and bingo they go home with you. Oh ya pay the fees

LMT4ME
04-01-2011, 4:46 PM
Thanks

jtmkinsd
04-01-2011, 4:58 PM
Just make sure your daughter includes make, model, and serial number in the letter.

speeddreamz
04-05-2011, 9:58 PM
My brother has some off roster handguns because he lives in another state. If he moves back to california and becomes a resident, what is his ability to register it himself in CA, and or PPT it to me.

I did read the earlier and see that you could do it as a gift.

ke6guj
04-05-2011, 10:12 PM
if your brother moves into CA and becomes a resident, he is supposed to register any handguns he imported within 60-days with the new resident form. OR, instead of doing the new resident registration, he can opt to do a PPT transfer to another CA resident at an FFL. He can't just gift them to you since you aren't in his "immediate family".

speeddreamz
04-05-2011, 10:31 PM
if your brother moves into CA and becomes a resident, he is supposed to register any handguns he imported within 60-days with the new resident form. OR, instead of doing the new resident registration, he can opt to do a PPT transfer to another CA resident at an FFL. He can't just gift them to you since you aren't in his "immediate family".

Immediate family is father-son / grandfather -grand son? Up and down not left to right on the family tree?


got it so, if he has an off roster one, he can transfer it to me at an FFL.

Now, does he have to be a resident at this point or not? I'm not 100% sure on residency requirements etc.

My brother is moving back around January and he has an off list kimber I've been eyeing

ke6guj
04-05-2011, 10:40 PM
Immediate family is father-son / grandfather -grand son? Up and down not left to right on the family tree?correct.


got it so, if he has an off roster one, he can transfer it to me at an FFL.

Now, does he have to be a resident at this point or not? I'm not 100% sure on residency requirements etc.
yes, if it is an off-roster handgun, he can transfer it to you in a PPT transfer, once he becomes a resident.

My brother is moving back around January and he has an off list kimber I've been eyeingperfectly legal to get from him once he becomes a resident. Remind him that if there are any off-roster handguns that he wants to get, that he needs to get them before he moves to CA.

jtmkinsd
04-05-2011, 10:44 PM
Immediate family is father-son / grandfather -grand son? Up and down not left to right on the family tree?


got it so, if he has an off roster one, he can transfer it to me at an FFL.

Now, does he have to be a resident at this point or not? I'm not 100% sure on residency requirements etc.

My brother is moving back around January and he has an off list kimber I've been eyeing

This is the problem...He won't be able to PPT without, at the very least, a CA ID (if he's military, a military ID with orders to a duty station in CA would work)...and right now, the chances of getting a CA ID/DL in 60 days is not even worth thinking about.

When he moves here, he will have to register them under his name until he can get a CA ID/DL to PPT them to you. If he is the proud owner of any large-capacity magazines, he will have to either break them down into parts kits, or sell them/leave them where he is now.

See here for more info on moving to CA with firearms: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Moving_to_California_with_firearms

ke6guj
04-05-2011, 10:49 PM
This is the problem...He won't be able to PPT without, at the very least, a CA ID (if he's military, a military ID with orders to a duty station in CA would work)...and right now, the chances of getting a CA ID/DL in 60 days is not even worth thinking about.

When he moves here, he will have to register them under his name until he can get a CA ID/DL to PPT them to you. If he is the proud owner of any large-capacity magazines, he will have to either break them down into parts kits, or sell them/leave them where he is now.
can you PPT out with a paper license, or does CADOJ prohibit that as well?

speeddreamz
04-05-2011, 10:52 PM
Interesting.

So lets just say he moves back in jan he dismantles sells or permanently blocks them off. He waits around for a half a year to a year, and somehow eventually becomes a CA resident again.

Then its all gravy?

My question is, while he is living in CA and an IL resident, I'm assuming he can legally possess the fire arms in his house as long as they are 10 rounders.

This is the problem...He won't be able to PPT without, at the very least, a CA ID (if he's military, a military ID with orders to a duty station in CA would work)...and right now, the chances of getting a CA ID/DL in 60 days is not even worth thinking about.

When he moves here, he will have to register them under his name until he can get a CA ID/DL to PPT them to you. If he is the proud owner of any large-capacity magazines, he will have to either break them down into parts kits, or sell them/leave them where he is now.

See here for more info on moving to CA with firearms: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Moving_to_California_with_firearms