PDA

View Full Version : RKI: Am I allowed to sell my Hi Cap mags to other states?


John T
03-31-2011, 6:13 PM
Hello, It was my understanding that I am allowed to sell Hi Capacity magazines to states other than Calif. with the exception of the other states that have banned Hi capacity magazines. If that is the case could someone kindly direct me to a specific CA DOJ code or something similar.
Thanks,
John T

Shady
03-31-2011, 6:23 PM
I would just take them apart and sell them as parts kit

vintagearms
03-31-2011, 6:26 PM
Take them apart and sell them as parts kit on the classifieds here. No reason not to.

ivsamhell
03-31-2011, 6:36 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=387409

cannot import, sell or manufacture them.

rromeo
03-31-2011, 6:39 PM
I'm reading the PC and as goofy as it is, I swear it says you can not sell magazines except to LEOs and other exempt people. You are offering for sale in California, even though they are leaving the state. It would still be illegal to sell to your non-LEO aunt in Nebraska.
Somebody please say I'm wrong.

choprzrul
03-31-2011, 6:52 PM
Hi-cap mag = 33 rds (Glock)

Std-cap mag = 15 to 30 rds (std pistol & AR15)

CA-cap mag = 10 rds

.

Quiet
03-31-2011, 7:02 PM
I'm reading the PC and as goofy as it is, I swear it says you can not sell magazines except to LEOs and other exempt people. You are offering for sale in California, even though they are leaving the state. It would still be illegal to sell to your non-LEO aunt in Nebraska.
Somebody please say I'm wrong.

You are reading it correctly.
Why tempt the fates, sell it as a "parts kit".

Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(19) The sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine to or by any federal, state, county, city and county, or city agency that is charged with the enforcement of any law, for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties whether on or off duty, and where the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of their duties.
(20) The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt of, or importation into this state of, a large capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.
(21) The sale or purchase of any large-capacity magazine to or by a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(22) The loan of a lawfully possessed large-capacity magazine between two individuals if all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person being loaned the large-capacity magazine is not prohibited by Section 12021, 12021.1, or 12101 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code from possessing firearms or ammunition.
(B) The loan of the large-capacity magazine occurs at a place or location where the possession of the large-capacity magazine is not otherwise prohibited and the person who lends the large-capacity magazine remains in the accessible vicinity of the person to whom the large-capacity magazine is loaned.
(23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully possessed in the state.
(24) The lending or giving of any large-capacity magazine to a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071, or to a gunsmith, for the purposes of maintenance, repair, or modification of that large-capacity magazine.
(25) The return to its owner of any large-capacity magazine by a person specified in paragraph (24).
(26) The importation into this state of, or sale of, any large-capacity magazine by a person who has been issued a permit to engage in those activities pursuant to Section 12079, when those activities are in accordance with the terms and conditions of that permit.
(27) The sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine, to or by entities that operate armored vehicle businesses pursuant to the laws of this state.
(28) The lending of large-capacity magazines by the entities specified in paragraph (27) to their authorized employees, while in the course and scope of their employment for purposes that pertain to the entity's armored vehicle business.
(29) The return of those large-capacity magazines to those entities specified in paragraph (27) by those employees specified in paragraph (28).
(30)(A) The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for any federal, state, county, city and county, or city agency that is charged with the enforcement of any law, for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties whether on or off duty, and where the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of their duties.
(B) The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for use by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.
(C) The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for export or for sale to government agencies or the military pursuant to applicable federal regulations.
(31) The loan of a large-capacity magazine for use solely as a prop for a motion picture, television, or video production.
(32) The purchase of a large-capacity magazine by the holder of a special weapons permit issued pursuant to Section 12095, 12230, 12250, 12286, or 12305, for any of the following purposes:
(A) For use solely as a prop for a motion picture, television, or video production.
(B) For export pursuant to federal regulations.
(C) For resale to law enforcement agencies, government agencies, or the military, pursuant to applicable federal regulations.
(c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.


Hi-cap mag = 33 rds (Glock)

Std-cap mag = 15 to 30 rds (std pistol & AR15)

CA-cap mag = 10 rds.
What do you call a 8 round magazine for a 1911 or H&K P7? :hide:

Large capacity magazine = legal term for a magazine that holds 11+ rounds

High capacity & standard capacity varies depending on the type of firearm the magazine is for.

For example:
Glock 17 = 10 round mag (reduced capacity?); 17 round mag (standard capacity); 33 round mag (high capacity)
Glock 19 = 10 round mag (reduced capacity?); 15 round mag (standard capacity); 17 & 33 round mag (high capacity)
Glock 26 = 10 round mag (standard capacity); 15, 17, & 33 round mag (high capacity)

rromeo
03-31-2011, 7:14 PM
And 30 AR mags are indeed high capacity.

stix213
03-31-2011, 7:21 PM
Do as others have said, disassemble and sell them as parts kits. You can tell them a parts kit has all the parts necessary to assemble a complete magazine in 2 seconds. You can also first leave the state, then once out of the state offer them for sale, but don't offer them for sale while you and the mags are still in the state as stupid as that sounds.

Though legal 11+ round mags are worth keeping even if you have no plans to use them again.

stix213
03-31-2011, 7:23 PM
Hi-cap mag = 33 rds (Glock)

Std-cap mag = 15 to 30 rds (std pistol & AR15)

CA-cap mag = 10 rds

.

When posing a legal question about PC 12020 that defines all mags of greater than 10 round capacity as "Large-Capacity magazines" its appropriate to call them hi caps or large caps even if they are standard for that firearm. If you want people to call them standard caps when not referring to the specific law that defines them otherwise, go right ahead.

kemasa
03-31-2011, 7:39 PM
BTW, I asked the CA DOJ about this and while the law says that it is illegal to offer the magazines for sale, the DOJ seems to view this as only for sale in CA and the person I talked to said it was not a problem, but that does not mean that the DOJ will be held to that nor that a DA would not charge you.

It is best to take them apart and sell them since then there is no issue. Or keep them since you can not replace them.

scrat
03-31-2011, 7:45 PM
too much to read. However from what i understand you can legally sell them to police officer and armored transport only.

Stormfeather
03-31-2011, 11:32 PM
instead of all this guessing, why doesnt someone send a email to BOF, and ask them? Its pretty simple, get a response in a few days, this way you arent spreading FUD in the meantime with all of your interpretations. Looks like some of us slept at a Holiday Inn Express again last night.

stix213
03-31-2011, 11:38 PM
instead of all this guessing, why doesnt someone send a email to BOF, and ask them? Its pretty simple, get a response in a few days, this way you arent spreading FUD in the meantime with all of your interpretations. Looks like some of us slept at a Holiday Inn Express again last night.

Because they are known for giving incorrect answers as it is.

rromeo
04-01-2011, 5:10 AM
instead of all this guessing, why doesnt someone send a email to BOF, and ask them? Its pretty simple, get a response in a few days, this way you arent spreading FUD in the meantime with all of your interpretations. Looks like some of us slept at a Holiday Inn Express again last night.

It's not guessing, this is written in the PC. As kemasa says though, enforcement may not be top priority.

kemasa
04-01-2011, 8:43 AM
too much to read. However from what i understand you can legally sell them to police officer and armored transport only.

Incorrect. You can also sell them to FFLs with a high capacity magazine permit and others, see CA PC 12020.

Also, with respect to the question, it is not legal under CA law:


12020 (a)(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
magazine.


But when I called the CA DOJ, they did not care if the magazine is sold out of state.

ivsamhell
04-01-2011, 9:00 AM
Incorrect. You can also sell them to FFLs with a high capacity magazine permit and others, see CA PC 12020.

Also, with respect to the question, it is not legal under CA law:



But when I called the CA DOJ, they did not care if the magazine is sold out of state.

tell them to put it in writing, it probably won't happen.

kemasa
04-01-2011, 9:05 AM
Of course they won't put it in writing, but I also doubt that they would charge anyone since there would be a problem as the person is selling the magazine outside of CA, which is interstate commerce. That is why I said it would be best to take the magazines apart and sell the parts out of state. Personally, I would keep them since you can't replace them.

rromeo
04-01-2011, 9:08 AM
I agree with keeping them, as you never know what will happen. I had some magazines that I bought in 1994, and never had a gun to use them in until last year.