PDA

View Full Version : Low Recoil 12 Gauge Home Defense Ammumition


SparrowHanger
03-31-2011, 2:13 PM
I want to get some 12 gauge to use specifically for Home Defense. I know I want low recoil ammo, it should say home defense in the name (possibly personal defense on the box), and I prefer either #2 or #4 buck or a combination of the two. I do not want slugs, rubber, or beanbags.

Does anyone know of anything other than Remington Ultimate Home Defense? http://www.basspro.com/Remington-reg-HD-Ultimate-Home-Defense-Shotshells-12-Gauge/product/10215215/-1624460

The other home defense round I am considering is the Federal Premium Personal Defense Ammunition, which is a low recoil round containing 9 pellets of 00 buck. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=121561

prc77
03-31-2011, 4:06 PM
this

http://www.sgammo.com/product/federal/250rd-12-gauge-le13200-low-recoil-buckshot

Reductio
03-31-2011, 4:31 PM
^^ What he said. The FliteControl wads are phenomenal, just look up some pattern comparisons with other buckshot: they're very tight. Some people seem to want a spread, but remember that once the pellets hit the target, they'll be going their own ways, and spread = pellets missing = bad.

SparrowHanger
03-31-2011, 10:48 PM
this

http://www.sgammo.com/product/federal/250rd-12-gauge-le13200-low-recoil-buckshot

I hve that on a short list (actually the civilian version of the same stuff). It is well reviewed.

Reductio
03-31-2011, 11:10 PM
I hve that on a short list (actually the civilian version of the same stuff). It is well reviewed.

Only if it says it comes with the Flitecontrol wad, Federal does make 'normal' buckshot. Hornady's versiwad is exactly the same.

SparrowHanger
03-31-2011, 11:27 PM
Only if it says it comes with the Flitecontrol wad, Federal does make 'normal' buckshot. Hornady's versiwad is exactly the same.

One of the Federal rounds does. Here is the list I have:

Federal Personal Defense:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=121561

Winchester Personal Defense:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/1554.php

Remington Home Defense
http://www.basspro.com/Remington-reg...15215/-1624460

And then there is some Federal Personal Defense with flight control, I think:
http://www.freegunstuff.com/AskProdu...spx?PID=187058

There are two Hornady loads that I think are basic buck with flight control:

The first is marketed for Personal Defense
http://www.hornady.com/store/12-Ga.-...-Buckshot-FPD/

and

Hornady Critical Defense
http://www.hornady.com/store/12-ga-0...itical-Defense

I am leaning towards the Remington Ultimate Home Defense with the mixed load of #2 and #4 buck shot if over penetration is a concern; the Federal Personal Defense if penetration is not a concern since its low recoil may be better for quality follow up shots.

gobi fish
04-01-2011, 3:09 AM
why do you want low recoil? if your ever in the spot to actually shoot someone, the adrenaline will take care of any of that recoil for you. low recoil may not cycle an auto shotty as well. you should go with max dram 00 buck mag shells if you wanna stop someone and even then its no gaurentee. add some 1 oz slugs or some hexolite shells to the party if you really want hd.

The #2 or #4 tricks are for kids (didn't the bunny ever tell you that?).

SparrowHanger
04-01-2011, 8:55 AM
why do you want low recoil? if your ever in the spot to actually shoot someone, the adrenaline will take care of any of that recoil for you. low recoil may not cycle an auto shotty as well. you should go with max dram 00 buck mag shells if you wanna stop someone and even then its no gaurentee. add some 1 oz slugs or some hexolite shells to the party if you really want hd.

The #2 or #4 tricks are for kids (didn't the bunny ever tell you that?).

Becasue I am using an 870 for HD, cycling is not an issue, but recoil will still increase the time required for accurate follow up shots. Then there is the possibility that a family member with much greater recoil sensitibvity has to use it. The #2 and #4 buck is to reduce over penetration. If needed I will have slugs and buck and ball as backup.

Reductio
04-01-2011, 4:32 PM
why do you want low recoil? if your ever in the spot to actually shoot someone, the adrenaline will take care of any of that recoil for you. low recoil may not cycle an auto shotty as well. you should go with max dram 00 buck mag shells if you wanna stop someone and even then its no gaurentee. add some 1 oz slugs or some hexolite shells to the party if you really want hd.

Low-recoil 00 buck is moving only like 200 FPS slower than full-power 00 buck, and since they have the same number of pellets, the biggest difference is how fast you can get a follow-up shot back on target.

Slugs are just a bad choice in general due to the obvious problem of over-penetration, though I do carry a couple on my side saddle

usedto
04-01-2011, 5:24 PM
Becasue I am using an 870 for HD, cycling is not an issue, but recoil will still increase the time required for accurate follow up shots. Then there is the possibility that a family member with much greater recoil sensitibvity has to use it. The #2 and #4 buck is to reduce over penetration. If needed I will have slugs and buck and ball as backup.

I'm sorry, but if you or someone you love is going to use a shotgun for home defense, the last thing you want them to worry about is whether or not it's going to hurt their little shoulder, or poke a few too many holes in the wall. You want them to grab the gun, rack it, shoot, rack it again, and shoot again, if need be.

Get the nastiest load you can find, get them used to it, and move on.

Otherwise, get a slingshot.

DanDaDude102
04-01-2011, 5:33 PM
READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
https://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=302473

RTE
04-01-2011, 5:35 PM
The 12ga Low Recoil Winchester Ranger 00 Buck patterns awesome in a Benelli M2.
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/222703000/222703323/pix988341150.jpg

llamatrnr
04-01-2011, 6:35 PM
I'm sorry, but if you or someone you love is going to use a shotgun for home defense, the last thing you want them to worry about is whether or not it's going to hurt their little shoulder, or poke a few too many holes in the wall. You want them to grab the gun, rack it, shoot, rack it again, and shoot again, if need be.

Get the nastiest load you can find, get them used to it, and move on.

Otherwise, get a slingshot.


Geez, guys; aren't we being a little hard on a brand new Calguns member? I'm an older guy who's had two shoulder surgeries and really don't enjoy the kick of a 12 (Yes, I know, get a slingshot) so I shot low-recoil stuff for getting used to my shotgun, and keep the serious stuff for HD. I practiced more than I would have otherwise. Just sayin' . . .

SparrowHanger
04-02-2011, 12:50 AM
Low-recoil 00 buck is moving only like 200 FPS slower than full-power 00 buck, and since they have the same number of pellets, the biggest difference is how fast you can get a follow-up shot back on target.

Slugs are just a bad choice in general due to the obvious problem of over-penetration, though I do carry a couple on my side saddle

+1 that

SparrowHanger
04-02-2011, 1:01 AM
I'm sorry, but if you or someone you love is going to use a shotgun for home defense, the last thing you want them to worry about is whether or not it's going to hurt their little shoulder, or poke a few too many holes in the wall. You want them to grab the gun, rack it, shoot, rack it again, and shoot again, if need be.

Get the nastiest load you can find, get them used to it, and move on.

Otherwise, get a slingshot.

Please start your own thread if you want to argue the merits of magnum vs low recoil loads, as the purpose of this thread is to determine what low recoil loads are available.

usedto
04-02-2011, 7:47 AM
Please start your own thread if you want to argue the merits of magnum vs low recoil loads, as the purpose of this thread is to determine what low recoil loads are available.

I apologize. I assumed the "home defense" was the most important part. Yes, I know what "assume" means.

Perhaps to obtain the best results, you might invest in a reloading setup. Then you wouldn't be at the mercy of what the manufacturers make. You could "build to suit", so to speak.

L84CABO
04-02-2011, 4:34 PM
Becasue I am using an 870 for HD, cycling is not an issue, but recoil will still increase the time required for accurate follow up shots. Then there is the possibility that a family member with much greater recoil sensitibvity has to use it. The #2 and #4 buck is to reduce over penetration. If needed I will have slugs and buck and ball as backup.

+1 Very valid reasons to opt for low recoil. Personal preference is also perfectly valid so don't let others tell you differently. ;)

Whatever you go with, make sure you test it out in your gun for reliability and so you know how it patterns.

Peace

gobi fish
04-02-2011, 4:46 PM
Geez, guys; aren't we being a little hard on a brand new Calguns member? I'm an older guy who's had two shoulder surgeries and really don't enjoy the kick of a 12 (Yes, I know, get a slingshot) so I shot low-recoil stuff for getting used to my shotgun, and keep the serious stuff for HD. I practiced more than I would have otherwise. Just sayin' . . .

be comfortable and dead or uncomfortable and safe, its one or the either, choose carefully!

gobi fish
04-02-2011, 4:48 PM
Slugs are just a bad choice in general due to the obvious problem of over-penetration, though I do carry a couple on my side saddle



ya never know when you will need to shoot thru a door. what happens when the intruder locks himself in a closet or a bathroom? :D:D:D

gobi fish
04-02-2011, 4:49 PM
Becasue I am using an 870 for HD, cycling is not an issue, but recoil will still increase the time required for accurate follow up shots. Then there is the possibility that a family member with much greater recoil sensitibvity has to use it. The #2 and #4 buck is to reduce over penetration. If needed I will have slugs and buck and ball as backup.

One and done, I always say, or I said that once...

LazyDog
04-02-2011, 5:14 PM
The other home defense round I am considering is the Federal Premium Personal Defense Ammunition, which is a low recoil round containing 9 pellets of 00 buck.

I highly recommend these for HD. I shot about 50 of these a few weeks ago with my wife and she had no problem with the recoil. We were hitting targets 25 yards away with amazing accuracy and consistency. We also brought along some Winchester Ranger Low Recoils OO Buck and Remington Ultimate Home Defense. By far, the Federal rounds were the mildest recoil for 00 Buck. I liked them so much that I ordered 250 shells the next day from ammunitiontogo.com.

SparrowHanger
04-02-2011, 5:54 PM
be comfortable and dead or uncomfortable and safe, its one or the either, choose carefully!

It is one thing to have an opinion and another to be obnoxious.

SparrowHanger
04-02-2011, 5:58 PM
ya never know when you will need to shoot thru a door. what happens when the intruder locks himself in a closet or a bathroom? :D:D:D

Oh Horror of Horrors! I never thought of such a dastardly intruder locking themselves up until the police arrive.

SparrowHanger
04-02-2011, 6:07 PM
I highly recommend these for HD. I shot about 50 of these a few weeks ago with my wife and she had no problem with the recoil. We were hitting targets 25 yards away with amazing accuracy and consistency. We also brought along some Winchester Ranger Low Recoils OO Buck and Remington Ultimate Home Defense. By far, the Federal rounds were the mildest recoil for 00 Buck. I liked them so much that I ordered 250 shells the next day from ammunitiontogo.com.

Thanks. Even if I go with the Ultimate Home Defense for my primary load, I think I will pick up some of the Federal low recoil 00. What did you think of the Remington Ultimate HD and which load was it; BBs or a mixture of #2 and #4 buck?

John Browning
04-02-2011, 6:10 PM
I'm sorry, but if you or someone you love is going to use a shotgun for home defense, the last thing you want them to worry about is whether or not it's going to hurt their little shoulder, or poke a few too many holes in the wall. You want them to grab the gun, rack it, shoot, rack it again, and shoot again, if need be.

Get the nastiest load you can find, get them used to it, and move on.

Otherwise, get a slingshot.

The terminal ballistics of low-recoil and regular buck are, for all practical and measurable purposes, IDENTICAL. Low recoil has a large advantage in that there is less muzzle flash and follow up shots are quicker. Logic can be a good thing.

r870noob
04-02-2011, 10:14 PM
^ on top of that, low recoil buck usually pattern closer than full loads at equal distances, if I remember correctly...yes, I use low recoil federal flight control wads...follow up shots are much easier and controllable.

BigDogatPlay
04-03-2011, 7:15 AM
The terminal ballistics of low-recoil and regular buck are, for all practical and measurable purposes, IDENTICAL. Low recoil has a large advantage in that there is less muzzle flash and follow up shots are quicker. Logic can be a good thing.

^ on top of that, low recoil buck usually pattern closer than full loads at equal distances, if I remember correctly...yes, I use low recoil federal flight control wads...follow up shots are much easier and controllable.

+1 to both of these points.

There is a reason that reduced recoil buckshot and slug loads are being adopted by law enforcement agencies everywhere and it isn't the comfort of the officers. It's about control and the ability to deliver followup shots quickly. The controlled patterning rounds, from Federal and Hornady in particular, are very effective at keeping patterns together and delivering the maximum number of pellets on the target. That characteristic also serves the purpose of reducing the incidence of stray pellets downrange.

FWIW I shoot Federal low recoil, with the flight control wad, in my HD shotgun. The longest straight line shot in my house is about 30 feet or 10 yards if you will. I live in a three bedroom home of ~2000 square feet. Encounter distances in HD are going to be from arm's length out to that 30 feet or perhaps a bit farther if you have a really big house. Farther distances, such as 25 yards, are outside distances and you aren't going to be defending your home outside at >25 yards other than in a rural setting.

If you want to "real world" pattern your HD gun, which all shotgun owners should, try it at five and ten yards. At five yards or less with pattern controlled ammo you should find, typically, a very large hole.

The mixed loads with different pellet sizes in them are, IMO, something of a gimmick. 00 or #4 buckshot both get the job done right when properly employed.

[thread jack]

In 20 something years as a LEO I never once was given a 3 inch shell to put into a duty shotgun. For those who espouse 3 inch shells in home defense guns please reconsider. There is no need at home defense distance.

[/thread jack]

LazyDog
04-03-2011, 8:47 AM
What did you think of the Remington Ultimate HD and which load was it; BBs or a mixture of #2 and #4 buck?

It was the mixture of #2 and #4 load. It was comfortable to shoot, but the recoil felt a little stronger as compared to the Federal 00 Low Recoil. Nothing that wasn't manageable, but I just wanted to give you my most honest assessment.

The Federal ammo is moderately priced that you could afford to order a good quantity to practice at the range. I think you'll find the recoil to be minimal and as mentioned above by a true LEO, the 2 3/4 low recoil round is preferred by the men and women who do this as a profession. At 10 yards or less, the shorter shells will perform as good as anything else.

Let me know how they work out for you...

mxadam579
04-03-2011, 9:06 AM
regular old bird shot will do the trick no need for 00 or 000 buck it worked for curt cobain didnt it...

SparrowHanger
04-03-2011, 10:52 AM
Thanks again guys. What BigDog posts is pretty much what I had gathered from numerous threads re home defense ammunition; especailly distances and the virtue of low recoil loads for follow up shots. Your shoulder is well calibrated, LazyDog (what is with the all the dogs). The respectrive muzzle velocities of the Federal low recoil buck and the Remington Ultra Home Defense are 1145 FPS and 1250 FPS.

BigDogatPlay
04-03-2011, 2:54 PM
regular old bird shot will do the trick no need for 00 or 000 buck it worked for curt cobain didnt it...

It worked for Kurt Cobain because it was a contact shot under his chin. Birdshot as a defensive round at greater than a few paces is not a good solution.