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View Full Version : Game Warden On Unloaded Locked Concealed Weapon


MtnHtr
03-30-2011, 5:24 PM
I spoke with a local game warden today on some road access issues and asked him about ULCC in my vehicle while traveling in the National Forest. He first explained there were two laws, the first being Fish and game code where it states one can have ammunition in the magazine but not in the chamber when a long gun was placed in a vehicle in an unincorporated area. The other is the CA penal code where it states no ammunition can be in the chamber or the built in magazine when a firearm is in a vehicle. The warden stated he enforces the F&G code mostly unless somebody becomes a smart***** and starts mouthing off, then he would enforce the CA penal code and issue a citation if they had ammunition in the attached magazine but not in the chamber of the firearm if it was in their vehicle. When I brought up handguns and ULCC he stated the ammunition must be "separated" from the weapon. When I asked him to define what he considered "separated", he stated the ammunition must not be accessible - it should be placed in the trunk or way out of reach away from the weapon. He agreed that defeats the whole purpose of having a handgun for self protection purposes. So I quoted him Clark vs the people and stated I would like to store my unloaded pistol in a locked container with a detached loaded magazine in the same container. The warden stated I would be guilty of a misdemeanor, as he would consider that weapon to be loaded and concealed in the vehicle. He then asked if I had thought about considering a CCW but I live in a May Issue county and the local sheriff is "out of compliance" regarding CCW issue. I then brought up the 12027 exemption and he stated " just make sure you are going fishing or hunting when you pack but it does not give you the right to ULCC a handgun in your vehicle. The travel part of 12027 applies to traveling on foot not in a vehicle." WTF?

I've been asking different LEOs and GWs about this subject of ULCC the last couple months and most if not all don't know the law. Even the local gun shop stated if one can reach their ammo while in the drivers seat then that is enough reason to get arrested or issued a citation regardless if the weapon is unloaded & placed in a locked container.

Whats a guy to do? I'm trying to follow the law so I don't get in trouble but it seems if one wants to travel with a weapon and have some chance of defense they are breaking the law according to these LEOs? I have not been pulled over in 10yrs but I want to pack my handguns ULCC when traveling in the NF in my vehicle. Pot farms are springing up everywhere, and cartel growers are lurking. I really don't feel like springing for a lawyer if cited for ULCC. Most Game Wardens will flat out ask "Do you have any firearms in your vehicle?" Do you reply "I have nothing illegal in my vehicle officer". I know right then he is going to use intimidation tactics to find a way to search and just like on the show "Wild Justice" I might receive a citation for ULCC in my vehicle (with a loaded magazine stored detached from my handgun inside my lock box)

Frustrating!

Shotgun Man
03-30-2011, 5:35 PM
Do what's legal. If you get in a bind, call CGF.

MtnHtr
03-30-2011, 5:43 PM
I will add the GW had no issues with loaded open or concealed carry while hiking in the NF, he did say make sure one has their fishing or hunting license if they are going to CC loaded (while hiking). He was not anti 2nd amendment and did feel our rights are infringed but he does have to enforce these laws.

MtnHtr

Librarian
03-30-2011, 6:20 PM
Paragraphs!

He was fine until he got to the bit about ammunition and separated.

If you happen to see him again, give him copies of the training bulletins you can get from the Calguns Foundation Wiki at
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Defining_loaded_in_California#Recent_Law_Enforceme nt_Training_Materials, and ask him to check with his supervisor.

stix213
03-30-2011, 6:27 PM
Even the CHP FAQ page has the ammo part right. You could just print that out if you want. Might make them think. Don't expect individual game wardens to even have heard of the Clark case.

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html#05


I will be traveling to California and want to carry my weapon. I currently have a concealed weapon permit. How can I legally transport my weapon while driving through the state?
California law does not recognize concealed weapon permits from other states; therefore, they would not be held valid. If you wish to transport a handgun during your California visit, it should be carried unloaded in a locked container. In the absence of a suitable container, you may secure the unloaded handgun in the locked trunk of a passenger car. Ammunition may be kept in the same container or trunk, but the handgun must remain unloaded with no rounds in the cylinder and no loaded magazines in the magazine well.

If you have additional questions, contact the California Department of Justice at 916-227-3703.


Also we usually refer to it as LUCC instead of ULCC on this site. Makes things easier to understand when our acronyms match. :p

MtnHtr
03-30-2011, 6:41 PM
LUCC - Got it. I have his phone number and will get these materials to him. Man I love this site, CalGuns is great!

Thanks - feeling a bit relieved!

M1A Rifleman
03-30-2011, 8:42 PM
Meh,
not surprised at his response. Have you ever watched the program on the NatGeo Channel on the Cal Fish&Game? On several programs they busted guys for really questionable stuff. Such as loaded guns in the pick-up bed in a private driveway, a claim that a loaded mag in a vehicle = a loaded firearm, etc. I also ust about sh&t when I saw them pull everyone out of their tents at a campground at gun point without PC. I support LEO's, but I don't go for the BS.

oaklander
03-30-2011, 8:45 PM
I did not read all of the OP's post. But in general, I have found that gun shops, LE, etc. are very receptive to having the law explained to them - IF - you provide a printed (or emailed) statute / case, and a clear explanation.

Just be nice about it!!!

:D

cmichini
03-30-2011, 9:15 PM
Gee a DFG person making up their own rules and citing it as CA penal code. Never heard that happen before...

sacto929
03-30-2011, 9:26 PM
My $0.02...

1) Follow the advice of the fine gentlemen who have previously explained how to gently explain the law to any LEO/GW you may encounter on your travels;

2) Buy a fishing license (http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/fishing/fishdescrip.html);

3) Buy one a Collapsible Fishing Pole (http://www.gofastandlight.com/Ultralight-Pen-Fishing-Rod-with-Spinning-Reel-COMBO/productinfo/FI-PCOMSTF/);

4) Keep #2 & 3 with you and LOC in the Forest. ;)

tommyid1
03-31-2011, 9:50 AM
That young officer the blond guy on the show is actually pretty cool. I'm pretty sure I've met walking out at howard slough last year. He did a shell count on us. My idiot buddy had 3 dead coyote T shot in his bag he forgot about. which was suuuuuper ilegal. Dude said your not even allowed to have this on the refuge and then said I can keep these or I can give you a 500 dollar ticket... lol. He was pretty cool about it. Needless to say my buddy ryan gave up the shells haha.

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