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View Full Version : Legality of building a .22lr ar15


kabinet
03-30-2011, 4:02 PM
I'm looking for California's laws on .22lr but my google skills are bad. I'd like to build an ar15 that would otherwise be totally illegal here but I'm always reading "rules dont apply to rimfire." So what ARE the rules on rimfire? Can I have a barrel shorter than 16 inches? Can I have an overall length less than 30 inches? I don't want to build a pistol because I want to have a buttstock. I basically want to build a short barrel ar15 rifle and slap in a .22lr conversion and say its a rimfire gun. It will probably never be used for anything other than killing paper within 40 yards but I want to put money in it and have the ability to convert it back to 5.56 by swapping the bolt out. Why? Why have a 600hp 200mph car when youll never use it for that? Cause I want it :) Anyway.... Can I do that legally? Obviously putting the 5.56 bolt back in it would be illegal but when the zombie apocalypse I won't be worried about that. While I'm asking questions...will the .22lr have enough boom to cycle a short ar15? I haven't figured on a barrel length yet but lets just go with the extreme: will it work on a 7.5inch barrel? No? how about 11.5inch? Thanks a lot guys!

xxINKxx
03-30-2011, 4:19 PM
You can have all the features you want and no bullet button. Every rifle in CA still needs 10 rounders and to meet the overal length requirements of 16" barrel and I think 30" overal length with shortest setting of the stock closed

chesterthehero
03-30-2011, 4:20 PM
same rules for everything except AW rules.. rimfire does not count as an AW so you can have all the evil features you want and still drop mags with your finger... you are still limited by barrel and overall length.. still have restricted mags.. school zones and all that other stuff still apply..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/chetifall/guns/charts-1.png

morrcarr67
03-30-2011, 4:25 PM
Read this on Gunwikki.net


Rimfire rifles: The assault rifle regulations all pertain to centerfire rifles. Rimfire rifles may use the 'evil features' list as a laundry list, if they so desire. However, if you're looking at a rimfire AR, be wary of using conversions to existing rifles. The 'ceiner' conversion devices (which replace the bolt carrier of an AR-15 with a 22LR assembly) are entirely too close to the line to use with a detachable magazine. I personally do feel safe with the V-22 upper on one of my AR-15s, however, as it's almost impossible to remove from the rifle without tools.

OHW
03-30-2011, 5:07 PM
It sounds like you want a 26" rimfire AR . Sounds good, but if you put a .556 bolt in you will be sub 30". That is a no-no unless you have SBR paperwork. Will you?
A pinned muzzle device on a 14.5 inch barrel 30" overall will be the shortest centerfire us nonSBR paper people can have.

OHW
03-30-2011, 5:13 PM
Katrina was a SHTF senario. Have you heard how CHPs took part in confiscating legal firearms ? They even beat an old lady down in her own home to take her legal weapon. Do you think that you won't be prosecuted for your illegal SBR?

ke6guj
03-30-2011, 5:52 PM
It sounds like you want a 26" rimfire AR . Sounds good, but if you put a .556 bolt in you will be sub 30". That is a no-no unless you have SBR paperwork. Will you?


huh, assuming that in both cases it will have a 16" barrel,, it is only an SBR if it is <26" OAL, rimfire or centerfire. there is no need to have SBR paperwork for a 26+" rifle

OHW
03-30-2011, 6:30 PM
A 16" barrel AR with an entry stock will be over 30"
Ke6?? Can you show me where a 26" oal semi-auto centerfire is legal?

Here it says no.
http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/LegalCalifornia

ke6guj
03-30-2011, 6:47 PM
Ke6?? Can you show me where a 26" oal semi-auto centerfire is legal?


show me where a 26" OAL semi-auto centerfire rifle is an SBR. that is what you said. there is no SBR paperwork needed to own a 26" OAL semi-auto centerfire rifle. I have a 26" OAL semi-auto centerfire rifle and it it is legal, and I don't have any SBR paperwork for it.

Now, if you meant to say that a 26" OAL semi-auto centerifire would be an AW, whereas the same rifle in rimfire wouldn't be an AW, that is different. Yes, it would be cutting edge legal to have a 26" OAL semi-auto rifle that was currenttly rimfire, but was just a bolt swap away from being centerfire, expecially if the bolt was present nearby.

OHW
03-30-2011, 6:54 PM
To get an AR to 26" it will be an SBR . An entry stock( the shortest I know) + 16" barrel on an AR is over 30".
What do you know? Show me a 26" model?

ke6guj
03-30-2011, 8:11 PM
To get an AR to 26" it will be an SBR . An entry stock( the shortest I know) + 16" barrel on an AR is over 30".
earlier you seem to say that he could get a 26" rimfire AR and it would be OK. how do you think he could have done that without it being an SBR?


What do you know? Show me a 26" model? OK, here is a 26" model that wouldn't be an SBR. its a folding stock model that should be right around the 26" mark, plus or minus an inch or so. If it was short, you could just through on a longer flash hider to make length, but what do I know?

edit: found a better link, http://www.paraord.com/new/product_rifle_large.php?id=6 , 26.5" folded.

kabinet
03-31-2011, 4:04 AM
I researched and asked around. The only type of short barreled rifles allowed in CA are "curio & relics." A C&R is a 50+ year old gun OR a museum piece OR has to be worth a lot because its rare or famous. An AR15 doesn't qualify for any of this and is therefore not permitted in CA under these rules. The only way to own a short barrel AR-type rifle is to have permission from the DOJ. In other words not gonna happen.
CA SBR rules (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82693)

Katrina was a SHTF senario. Have you heard how CHPs took part in confiscating legal firearms ? They even beat an old lady down in her own home to take her legal weapon. Do you think that you won't be prosecuted for your illegal SBR?
Even though there was crazy stuff going on (looting and plundering) there was still order as compared to if [Insert Country] were to invade and occupy the US. I'd put in my 5.56 bolt. I'm not trying to do anything illegal. I was trying to find out if I could do something legal (have a sbr rimfire) and a 5.56 bolt in the drawer (known to be legal). And when its just me and my german shepard alone in a world of nocturnal zombies I'll take that 5.56 bolt out of the drawer and slap it in my gun and go for the high score. If I ever moved out of CA I could follow the rules and legally have a 5.56 SBR. But as it seems I can't have any kind of SBR AR in CA without permission from the DOJ.

OHW
03-31-2011, 4:18 AM
Ke6guj the para takes a special bolt and is piston operated. No ceiner .22 conversion for that.
I stand by my statement .

shadow65
03-31-2011, 5:35 AM
A nice feature of a .22 AR is a 16" barrel looks like a 14.5" when installed. The barrel sits farther into the receiver than the 5.56.
Dave

donw
03-31-2011, 7:14 AM
i purchased a Spike ST-22 directly from spikes along with 5.56 uppers to fit the ST-22 lowers.

Faith armory of Temecula accepted the ST-22 and did the DROS for with no problems.

the ST-22 IS an AR with "22lr" stamped into the lowers and 'dedicated' .22 lr uppers that are NOT convertible to centerfire.

when i run the 5.56 uppers i have to install the California bullet button...other wise...it's a California legal "AR" in .22 lr.

stitchnicklas
03-31-2011, 7:57 AM
meh...

i just built a ca AR15 with a dedicated .22lr upper,only thing i did different is used a bullet button so i can swap out the upper later with a 450 bushmaster(someday),i just leave the red tool in the lower and the dedicated upper on it.

xxINKxx
03-31-2011, 8:03 AM
earlier you seem to say that he could get a 26" rimfire AR and it would be OK. how do you think he could have done that without it being an SBR?


OK, here is a 26" model that wouldn't be an SBR. its a folding stock model that should be right around the 26" mark, plus or minus an inch or so. If it was short, you could just through on a longer flash hider to make length, but what do I know?

edit: found a better link, http://www.paraord.com/new/product_rifle_large.php?id=6 , 26.5" folded.


It still needs to be 30" overall length. 26" is 4 inches too short. That's why you must permanently pin the new FN Scar side folding buttstocks to be CA legal (basically same style gun in ur link)

ke6guj
03-31-2011, 9:36 AM
Ke6guj the para takes a special bolt and is piston operated. No ceiner .22 conversion for that.
I stand by my statement .
yes, that is a piston gun, but the .22 conversions will work in many of them if you merely remove the piston. Do you know for a fact that that is not an option on the Para?

I'm still wating to hear which 26" rimfire AR is gonna be OK to have (meaning that it isn't an SBR), but as soon as you drop a center-fire BCG into it, it becomes an SBR.



It still needs to be 30" overall length. 26" is 4 inches too short. That's why you must permanently pin the new FN Scar side folding buttstocks to be CA legal (basically same style gun in ur link)yes, I know that some people have to deal with the 30" rule lest they have an AW, but OHW is talking about SBRs, not AWs.