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GW
11-01-2006, 10:03 PM
Does anyone have any definitive proof like a letter or name of a BLM agent that says Tannerite is legal to use on BLM land?
Thanks!

five.five-six
11-01-2006, 10:32 PM
sounds like fun

BigMac
11-02-2006, 8:17 AM
I have no proof but have shot it on BLM. It cannot start a fire.

I shot it at Panoche after telling the BLM wildlife guy I was going to . No problems.

proraptor
11-02-2006, 8:48 AM
Man Id love to see some of that stuff in action....It looks really cool

Scarecrow Repair
11-02-2006, 10:04 AM
Tannerite, eh? Googled and went to their web site. Never heard of it before. Can someone explain in small words what one does with it, ho wmuch to use, how easy it is to set off ...

Patriot
11-02-2006, 10:06 AM
Buy

Mix

Shoot = Kaboom

No Shoot ~ No Kaboom

Stable Substance

Scarecrow Repair
11-02-2006, 10:19 AM
How stable? For instance, I save milk jugs and other plastic bottles, fill 'em with water, and recycle the remnants. If I dropped a ball of Tannerite in one, would a .22LR pack enough punch to set it off?

If I drive 5 miles to a local shooting field with these milk jugs in the bed, will the dirt road bumps set it off, or is it better to put lumps in the jugs at the field? I would do that anyway, but I am curious ...

Nefarious
11-02-2006, 10:24 AM
KABOOM?? thats all i had to see to become interested :D

fguerra
11-02-2006, 10:28 AM
More Tanerite=MORE Kaboom!!!

Rascal
11-02-2006, 10:35 AM
Tannerite is safe until it is mixed together, which is why you only mix it up when you are ready to shoot it. DON'T mix it up before going to your shooting place.

ohsmily
11-02-2006, 11:11 AM
Tannerite is safe until it is mixed together, which is why you only mix it up when you are ready to shoot it. DON'T mix it up before going to your shooting place.

+1

---------------------

sintax
11-02-2006, 11:27 AM
a .22 would NOT set it off. From what i've read you need a pretty hot 30 cal, something like a .308 or 30-06 and up to set it off.

five.five-six
11-02-2006, 11:36 AM
Tannerite, eh? Googled and went to their web site. Never heard of it before. Can someone explain in small words what one does with it, ho wmuch to use, how easy it is to set off ...


this is a prety good description:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannerite

DRH
11-02-2006, 11:42 AM
How stable? For instance, I save milk jugs and other plastic bottles, fill 'em with water, and recycle the remnants. If I dropped a ball of Tannerite in one, would a .22LR pack enough punch to set it off?

If I drive 5 miles to a local shooting field with these milk jugs in the bed, will the dirt road bumps set it off, or is it better to put lumps in the jugs at the field? I would do that anyway, but I am curious ...

Although the mixed compound is very stable. It is illegal for a non explosive permit holder to store or transport the mixed targets.

As for the original question, I was told that a BLM ranger in AZ had given some of the MG shooters a little grief about blowing up the landscape (rocks, ground, plants) with tannerite. I think they changed their shoot date to Thanksgiving to avoid conflicts. I do not think the BLM would have a leg to stand on if the targets were hung off a frame with a string like is shown in the supplied video and you cleaned up your trash.

Builder
11-02-2006, 12:11 PM
Tannerite is legal in California anywhere you can shoot a rifle. It is regulated under the Consumer Product Safety Commission. It is not a regulated destructive device. It can not be set off by fire, fuse, firecracker, shaking, static electricity, pistol, or 22LR. I must be set off by a centerfire round. A .223 works quite well, thank you. It needs to stay dry. It CAN be mixed before transporting it to the shooting location as long as it is NOT a commercial transport. Mixing it at home and transporting it in your personal vehicle is perfectly legal.
It is a BLAST, pure and simple. I used 1.3 lbs of the Tannerite to take apart my old dead ink jet printer. see next post and the next one too. Quite a sight!!
Builder

Builder
11-02-2006, 12:34 PM
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l108/DavidRSw/Printerbefore.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l108/DavidRSw/Printerremains.jpg
It took about 30 mins. to pick up the pieces.
Builder

Builder
11-02-2006, 1:19 PM
Kinda of a narrow field of view (as a result of the uploading) video of Tannerite, but it gets some of the idea of what it can do.
http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l108/DavidRSw/?action=view&current=Tannerite.flv
Any suggestions as to a better video hosting site, besides Youtube?
Builder

Nefarious
11-02-2006, 1:23 PM
Has anyone ever shot this stuff out in Jacumba or Orosco? I dont think it would be a problem at Orosco, but at Jacumba with the damn BP going back and forth all the time...

theseacow
11-02-2006, 2:07 PM
....

Toolbox X
11-02-2006, 2:11 PM
I also shoot Tannerite on a regular basis. My friends and I bought 2 cases of twenty 1/2lb. bottles for $180 delivered.

It is extremely stable. It takes a high powered rifle round to detonate. Shooting it with a .22 or 9mm will have no effect other than making a mess of Tannerite powder. 5.56mm works just fine.

It is a binary explosive meaning it doesn't produce any flame. You will get a huge cloud of white powder that looks like smoke though.

Do not underestimate Tannerite. It is a real explosive. From what I understand each bottle is equivalent to 1/4 stick of dynamite. You will learn very fast that Tannerite should be at least 60-100 yards away before you shoot it. You will also learn all about explosives an how big a part pressure plays in how dramatic the effect of the explosion is.

If you detonate a bottle just sitting on the ground, all of the blast energy will go out into the air and you will just get a big boom. If you pack a bottle deep inside something like a printer or under a TV, when it explodes all of the blast energy will go directly into the surrounding material and you will have a considerable explosion will lots of shrapnel glory.

So BE CAREFUL!!!!!

jaymz
11-02-2006, 6:32 PM
This shows very well what Tannereite is capable of! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8zFWAR3Ovw

cnyankee
11-02-2006, 7:34 PM
here is another video of tannerite and a link explaining it. i just got the assortment pack and going to panoche this weekend and its all ive been thinking about all week.:D



http://www.tankride.com/Tannerite.html
http://www.tannerite.com/

cnyankee
11-02-2006, 7:46 PM
and it kicks the crap outa shooting paper targets:D :D :D :D

TKo_Productions
11-02-2006, 8:49 PM
I've been researching this subject lately myself.....

Other than the Tannerite company saying it's legal (which I know it is Federally)....How do you guys know it's legal under CA law? Don't get me wrong....I hope your right, but I want to be able to prove it.

In "2006 Dangerous Weapons Control Law"

CHAPTER 2.5. DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES
12301. (a) The term "destructive device," as used in this chapter, shall include any of
the following weapons:
(1) Any projectile containing any explosive or incendiary material or any other
chemical substance, including, but not limited to, that which is commonly known as tracer or
incendiary ammunition, except tracer ammunition manufactured for use in shotguns.
(2) Any bomb, grenade, explosive missile, or similar device or any launching device
therefor.

Break..............

(6) Any sealed device containing dry ice (CO2) or other chemically reactive
substances assembled for the purpose of causing an explosion by a chemical reaction.
(b) The term "explosive," as used in this chapter, shall mean any explosive defined in
Section 12000 of the Health and Safety Code.

Those are a couple of places where I think "Tannerite" may be illegal....though I'm not sure.

Here's the health and safety code:

CALIFORNIA HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE
12000. For the purposes of this part, "explosives" means any substance, or combination of substances, the primary or common purpose of which is detonation or rapid combustion, and which is capable of a relatively instantaneous or rapid release of gas and heat, or any substance, the primary purpose of which, when combined with others, is to form a substance capable of a relatively instantaneous or rapid release of gas and heat. "Explosives" includes, but is not limited to, any explosives as defined in Section 841 of Title 18 of the United States Code and published pursuant to Section 555.23 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, and any of the following:

(a) Dynamite, nitroglycerine, picric acid, lead azide, fulminate of mercury, black powder, smokeless powder, propellant explosives, detonating primers, blasting caps, or commercial boosters.

(b) Substances determined to be division 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, or 1.6 explosives as classified by the United States Department of Transportation.

(c) Nitro carbo nitrate substances (blasting agent) classified as division 1.5 explosives by the United States Department of Transportation.

(d) Any material designated as an explosive by the State Fire Marshal. The designation shall be made pursuant to the classification standards established by the United States Department of Transportation. The State Fire Marshal shall adopt regulations in accordance with the Government Code to establish procedures for the classification and designation of explosive materials or explosive devices that are not under the jurisdiction of the United States Department of Transportation pursuant to provisions of Section 841 of Title 18 of the United States Code and published pursuant to Section 555.23 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations that define explosives.

(e) Certain division 1.4 explosives as designated by the United States Department of Transportation when listed in regulations adopted by the State Fire Marshal.

(f) For the purposes of this part, "explosives" does not include any destructive device, as defined in Section 12301 of the Penal Code, nor does it include ammunition or small arms primers manufactured for use in shotguns, rifles, and pistols.

Anybody have any insight why Tannerite would not be considered a bomb, explosive, etc.?

I contacted Daniel (the guy behind Tannerite) with that very same question and documentation. He didn't want to hear it--told me that his lawyers had looked into it and that it was legal in all 50 states.

Personally I wouldn't order, store, or use Tannerite while in CA. All you need is one overzealous LEO to ruin an otherwise great day/life.

In my opinion Tannerite isn't legal in CA.

Patriot
11-02-2006, 8:52 PM
Might be missing something, but my impression was that it wasn't an explosive until mixed. Unless there's something like constructive possession, you should be good.

IANAL, YMMV, etc.

Builder
11-03-2006, 5:16 PM
Ammonium nitrate is not an explosive. It is a chemical that is more commonly used as a fertilizer. When you mix it with the catalyst, it will not explode by any blasting cap or otherwise. Only the kinetic energy of a fast round will set it off.
Manufacturing explosives is about SELLING it.
If Daniel says its legal, its legal. Does anyone really think that he would risk going to jail for this? He's amazed this has gone on as long as it has. Notice in the list, ammonium nitrate and aluminum / zirconium mixtures are not listed.
And don't forget these clever folks either: http://www.velocityops.com/ and legalities http://www.velocityops.com/page4.html in particular. And then http://www.americanpyro.com/State%20Laws%20(main)/PDFStates/california.pdf
Builder

Nefarious
11-03-2006, 5:52 PM
Has anyone ever shot this stuff out in or Orosco? I dont think it would be a problem at Orosco, but at Jacumba with the damn BP going back and forth all the time...

?? I take it no ??

jbear
11-03-2006, 6:22 PM
I've been researching this subject lately myself.....

Other than the Tannerite company saying it's legal (which I know it is Federally)....How do you guys know it's legal under CA law? Don't get me wrong....I hope your right, but I want to be able to prove it.

In "2006 Dangerous Weapons Control Law"

CHAPTER 2.5. DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES
12301. (a) ....

....(f) For the purposes of this part, "explosives" does not include any destructive device, as defined in Section 12301 of the Penal Code, nor does it include ammunition or small arms primers manufactured for use in shotguns, rifles, and pistols.

Anybody have any insight why Tannerite would not be considered a bomb, explosive, etc.?


I'm not a lawyer, and I am definately not offering advice on any explosive type material to anyone, but this atf document: http://www.atf.gov/explarson/fedexplolaw/qanda.pdf seems to say that if your a farmer, and want to blow up a few stumps, you should be "good to go".

Sounds like they do classify binary explosives as "explosive materials" (once mixed) subject to federal regulations though.

18. Are binary explosives subject to
regulation under Federal explosives laws?
Until the compounds are mixed, they are not
classified as explosives and, therefore, are not
subject to control. However, once mixed, binary
explosives are considered to be “explosive
materials” and are subject to all applicable Federal
requirements. A person who regularly combines
compounds of binary explosives to manufacture
such explosives for the purpose of sale or
distribution or for the person’s own business use is
a “manufacturer” of explosives materials and must
be licensed as a manufacturer under the law. [18
U.S.C. 841(h); 27 CFR 55.11: definition of
“manufacturer”]

36. When is a manufacturer's license
required?
A manufacturer’s license is needed only by
persons engaged in the business of manufacturing
explosive materials for sale, distribution, or for
business use. For example, persons engaged in
the business of providing a blasting service using
explosives of their own manufacture would be
required to have a manufacturer’s license. Persons
who manufacture explosives for their personal, nonbusiness
use would not need a manufacturer’s
license. [27 CFR 55.11: definition of
“manufacturer”, 55.41]

40. Is a manufacturer’s license required for
agricultural use of binary explosives?
No, as long as the user is not engaged in the
business of manufacturing explosive materials. For
example, if a farmer buys binary explosives for use
in blowing tree stumps on his farm, he or she does
not need a manufacturer’s license. However, if the
farmer uses binary explosives in a business of
blasting stumps/rocks, etc., for other persons, he or
she would be required to have a manufacturer’s
license. See also Questions 18, 36 and 37. [27
CFR 55.11: Definition of “manufacturer”, 55.41(a)]

artherd
11-04-2006, 9:27 AM
Ammonium nitrate is not an explosive. It is a chemical that is more commonly used as a fertilizer. When you mix it with the catalyst, it will not explode by any blasting cap or otherwise.
Actually, a #8 or larger (a BIG cap) will set off tannerite.

Your core point, that mixed tannerite is VERY hard to set off, is correct however.

Whitesmoke
11-04-2006, 10:28 AM
Ammonium nitrate is not an explosive. It is a chemical that is more commonly used as a fertilizer......

I realized that....I just didn't want to come right out and say it. :D

"Notice in the list, ammonium nitrate and aluminum / zirconium mixtures are not listed."

Now, thats a good point. I hadn't noticed that part....all of those other ammonium nitrate mixtures are listed by name......but the aluminum is not.

But....one last question....would making (mixing) Tannerite be clasified as making a firework? Like making a pipe bomb, M80, etc?

Whitesmoke
11-04-2006, 10:31 AM
I'm not a lawyer, and I am definately not offering advice on any explosive type material to anyone, but this atf document: http://www.atf.gov/explarson/fedexplolaw/qanda.pdf seems to say that if your a farmer, and want to blow up a few stumps, you should be "good to go".

Sounds like they do classify binary explosives as "explosive materials" (once mixed) subject to federal regulations though.

You right...at least at the federal level. But it's legality at the state level is what I'm concerned about. :confused:

jbear
11-10-2006, 12:53 PM
You right...at least at the federal level. But it's legality at the state level is what I'm concerned about. :confused:


LOL, sorry about that. I live in Alabama. They let us blow up whatever we want :eek:

DRH
11-10-2006, 1:33 PM
The reason tannerite is legal is the same reason the air bags in your cars are legal even though the compound used in the air bags are explosives. It has to do with consumer product laws and the allowed use of these products, I am not a lawyer and do not know the details. Tannerite is sold as and to be used as a rifle target. If you are blowing up cars with it like in the video, I doubt it is still legal. Daniel Tanner, the mfg, has successfully help defend anyone charge with possession in California so far. This includes the serviceman who forgot he had it in his vehicle and drove on base with it and was arrested.

762cavalier
11-10-2006, 8:25 PM
Toolbox X
I also shoot Tannerite on a regular basis.
Where in the sacramento area do you go to shoot this stuff. I'm just dying to try some now.

five.five-six
11-29-2006, 7:14 AM
yea where can I get some?

drawn
11-29-2006, 7:39 AM
Be sure to pestle all lumps out of the Ammonium nitrate before mixing. sending it through a flour sifter works well to. The finer the AN is the more dramatic. Although binary the energy can cause fire when metal or spark generating materials are affected.

Hunter
11-29-2006, 8:10 AM
Here is a picture of some tannerite that was set off at the last shoot I attended in October. Those "orange spots" are 50 gal drums.:eek:

:eek:
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/263/p1010559zt9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

thisismyboomstick
11-29-2006, 9:33 AM
It is not necessarily true that only a centerfire rifle will set off tannerite.

.17hmr WILL set it off. It's all about velocity.

Does anyone know where to get ammonium nitrate in CA? I've wanted to try making my own targets since Tannerite is hideously expensive for what it is. If you have any info on where to get some I'd appreciate a PM.

Nefarious
11-29-2006, 10:23 AM
Does anyone know where to get ammonium nitrate in CA?....... If you have any info on where to get some I'd appreciate a PM.

+1

........

Hunter
11-29-2006, 10:57 AM
It is not necessarily true that only a centerfire rifle will set off tannerite.

.17hmr WILL set it off. It's all about velocity.

Does anyone know where to get ammonium nitrate in CA? I've wanted to try making my own targets since Tannerite is hideously expensive for what it is. If you have any info on where to get some I'd appreciate a PM.

Have you tried your local garden/farm/ranch supply store? It is just fertilizer.

xrMike
11-29-2006, 11:32 AM
Be sure to pestle all lumps out of the Ammonium nitrate before mixing.So you really can set off ANFO with a high-power round?

thisismyboomstick
11-29-2006, 2:16 PM
Have you tried your local garden/farm/ranch supply store? It is just fertilizer.

I've tried a bunch of them. I live in a very agricultural area of CA and even the large fertilizer suppliers can only get it in a 20% solution.

pepsi2451
11-29-2006, 2:23 PM
You can order it but after paying shipping you probably wouldn't save much. You also might look like a terrorist, remember Oklahoma City?

xrMike
11-29-2006, 2:27 PM
I've tried a bunch of them. I live in a very agricultural area of CA and even the large fertilizer suppliers can only get it in a 20% solution.A lot of the "instant cold" packs use ammonium nitrate inside them (the cold packs where there's a pouch of liquid (water) that you break inside a bag of powder and they get really really cold).

That would be a much more expensive way to acquire a large amount of the stuff though...

kilword
11-29-2006, 2:41 PM
just make it

ivanimal
11-29-2006, 2:41 PM
Tannerite is also good on a Webber!:D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/ivanimal/weber.jpg