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ubet
03-28-2011, 5:20 PM
I just ordered an emerson commander

http://www.emersonknives.com/Commander_BTS.html

and am wondering (guess I should have asked this first), is this legal in Ca?

Toast
03-28-2011, 5:23 PM
Yes.

Merc1138
03-28-2011, 5:24 PM
Is it a switchblade with a length greater than 2 inches?
Nope.
So it's legal.

Joe
03-28-2011, 5:26 PM
Looks ca legal to me. Assisted opening is legal as long as the blade(not a button) is used to open the knife. There isn't a button on that knife.

Here's the penal code:

653k. Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor. For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a knife having the appearance of a pocketknife, and includes a spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position. For purposes of this section, "passenger's or driver's area" means that part of a motor vehicle which is designed to carry the driver and passengers, including any interior compartment or space therein.

Note that there may be local ordinances prohibiting such knives.

ubet
03-28-2011, 5:28 PM
Didnt think so, but this states laws are way to confusing for me to read and understand.

Thanks for the quick replies! This forum is great for that

Tweak338
03-28-2011, 5:29 PM
IIRC each county/city also has knife laws.

Toast
03-28-2011, 5:33 PM
Most deal with openly carried knives though. I was reading up on different counties' knife laws and most don't regulate non-fixed concealed knives.

Librarian
03-28-2011, 5:42 PM
Good summary here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=2289918&postcount=6), if I do say so myself.

ubet
03-28-2011, 6:13 PM
Librarian, good write up. The only thing I would add, is that a dirk or dagger in ca, is ANY knife with a fixed blade, not the typical way we think of dirk/dagger (two edges). A double edged fixed blade is fine, as long as its not concealed, which is a felony.

Librarian
03-28-2011, 6:51 PM
Librarian, good write up. The only thing I would add, is that a dirk or dagger in ca, is ANY knife with a fixed blade, not the typical way we think of dirk/dagger (two edges). A double edged fixed blade is fine, as long as its not concealed, which is a felony.

Dirk or dagger is more of a 'what did the guy have that he used to stab someone' thing. Ice picks and screwdrivers are "capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death" - doesn't even have to be a knife.

Tweaksalot
03-28-2011, 7:04 PM
thats my favorite knife. . . you'll love your commander!! the wave feature is awesome too!

wazdat
03-28-2011, 7:07 PM
My daily carry. Gerber Applegate-Fairbairn Covert folder.

Sharpened on both edges... :D

http://images.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/gerber/images/GB01966.jpg

ubet
03-28-2011, 7:13 PM
Dirk or dagger is more of a 'what did the guy have that he used to stab someone' thing. Ice picks and screwdrivers are "capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death" - doesn't even have to be a knife.

Does it just comedown to intetnt, ie, I can conceal a screwdriver, if im gonna screw some boards up, but not if I am planing to hold up the 7/11?

Anonymous Coward
03-28-2011, 7:19 PM
Good summary here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=2289918&postcount=6), if I do say so myself.

Librarian, this is missing the 12020 (d) exception of concealed fixed blade carry:
Knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer are not concealed within the meaning of this section.

Also are you sure about this?
In a bag or briefcase that you carry is 'on your person'.

That would mean if somebody is carrying a fixed blade knife for camping in a back pack or a kitchen knife in a shopping bag from the store to the car would fall under this.

aklover_91
03-28-2011, 8:19 PM
Librarian, this is missing the 12020 (d) exception of concealed fixed blade carry:


Also are you sure about this?


That would mean if somebody is carrying a fixed blade knife for camping in a back pack or a kitchen knife in a shopping bag from the store to the car would fall under this.
25(d) Knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer are not concealed within the meaning of this section.

Though it doesn't necessarily have to be from a waist sheath, just immediately visible.

Rule of thumb is folders can be concealed, fixed blades need to be openly carried.

Librarian
03-28-2011, 9:02 PM
Librarian, this is missing the 12020 (d) exception of concealed fixed blade carry:


Also are you sure about this?


That would mean if somebody is carrying a fixed blade knife for camping in a back pack or a kitchen knife in a shopping bag from the store to the car would fall under this.

The 'carried openly on the belt' is pretty obviously not concealed, no?

And yes, I am absolutely certain about in a bag etc counting as 'on your person'; that's why I switched from a fixed blade in my work bag to a folder in my pocket.

Again, much of this is to give LEOs something to charge people with beyond 'loitering'; it could be used as you suggest, but in practice it doesn't happen much because most folks don't do something to get stopped.

Librarian
03-28-2011, 9:05 PM
Does it just comedown to intetnt, ie, I can conceal a screwdriver, if im gonna screw some boards up, but not if I am planing to hold up the 7/11?

Yes, pretty much.

Same as carrying a baseball or softball bat in your trunk. If you have a ball and a glove, you're probably off to play ball. If it's just the bat, maybe that's a club.

tempdrummer
03-28-2011, 11:43 PM
I'm confused on this PDF.
http://handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

Where they list, for instance say Temecula, it says <3"

So does that mean you can't carry a folding knife greater than 3"?

MyOdessa
03-28-2011, 11:49 PM
You have to be careful about "suspended from the waist," if you wearing an overcoat or jacket and it is substantially covers that knife, it could be considered to be concealed.

Anonymous Coward
03-29-2011, 7:58 AM
The 'carried openly on the belt' is pretty obviously not concealed, no?

It is concealed if you're wearing a long coat or long shirt.
And it is not "carried openly on the belt" if you're carrying inside the waistband.

So there are most certainly cases where this applies. Otherwise legislators wouldn't have added this. And IMO it means that whenever you're wearing your fixed blade knife in a belt sheath (outside the waistband) then you don't have to worry about your clothes or something else concealing it.

I will do some research on the "on the person" I don't believe that it would criminalize many people who carry fixed blade knifes in bags. Think about building contractors that carry their card board cutters in tool bags on a daily basis.

ubet
03-29-2011, 8:33 AM
It is concealed if you're wearing a long coat or long shirt.
And it is not "carried openly on the belt" if you're carrying inside the waistband.

So there are most certainly cases where this applies. Otherwise legislators wouldn't have added this. And IMO it means that whenever you're wearing your fixed blade knife in a belt sheath (outside the waistband) then you don't have to worry about your clothes or something else concealing it. Yes it is then considered concealed, just like if your uoc a handgun, and a coat came over it, then its a concealed handgun. Your coat comes over your knife, no you have a concealed knife (felony).

I will do some research on the "on the person" I don't believe that it would criminalize many people who carry fixed blade knifes in bags. Think about building contractors that carry their card board cutters in tool bags on a daily basis.
Like stated earlier, it comes down to intent, ball, glove and a bat, your playing baseball, bat and a ski mask, eh not so good. Contractors are going to work, so it goes into the tool category. Where as if I had a microtech currahee in my bag, its a defensive weapon.
Its so stupid that we even have to ask these types of questions.

M1A Rifleman
03-29-2011, 10:00 AM
Meh,
I'd be more worried that you spent over $200 for a pocket knife rather than any laws saying you can't have it. Its a nice knife, but costly for use and EDC.

Shotgun Man
03-29-2011, 10:14 AM
Does it just comedown to intetnt, ie, I can conceal a screwdriver, if im gonna screw some boards up, but not if I am planing to hold up the 7/11?

Intent is irrelevant.

Westlaw headnote:

Offense of unlawful carrying of a concealed dirk or dagger has no specific intent requirement; the statutory language unambiguously establishes that carrying a concealed dirk or dagger does not require an intent to use the concealed instrument as a stabbing weapon; disapproving People v. Aubrey (1999) 70 Cal.App.4th 1088, 83 Cal.Rptr.2d 209; People v. Oskins (1999) 69 Cal.App.4th 126, 81 Cal.Rptr.2d 383. People v. Rubalcava (2000) 96 Cal.Rptr.2d 735, 23 Cal.4th 322, 1 P.3d 52.

Your grandma conceals her knitting needles on her person, in her own home even, she is committing a felony.

Librarian
03-29-2011, 10:27 AM
It is concealed if you're wearing a long coat or long shirt.
Then, it's not 'openly'...
And it is not "carried openly on the belt" if you're carrying inside the waistband.
Again, then, it's not 'openly'... We seem to be entirely in agreement.
So there are most certainly cases where this applies. Otherwise legislators wouldn't have added this. And IMO it means that whenever you're wearing your fixed blade knife in a belt sheath (outside the waistband) then you don't have to worry about your clothes or something else concealing it.
If it's covered by clothing, it's not 'openly...

I will do some research on the "on the person" I don't believe that it would criminalize many people who carry fixed blade knifes in bags. Think about building contractors that carry their card board cutters in tool bags on a daily basis.

The CalCrim Jury Instructions (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/jury/criminaljuryinstructions/) will give direction to your search - Substantial Concealment. People v. Wharton (1992) 5 Cal.App.4th 72, 75 [6 Cal.Rptr.2d 673]; People v. Fuentes (1976) 64 Cal.App.3d 953, 955 [134 Cal.Rptr. 885].

usui
03-29-2011, 10:42 AM
I'm curious about this "flip of the wrist" clause... I have a pocket knife that is a little loose, in that it was designed to have friction to open with a thumb tab, but if I swing it really hard, I can open it without the thumb tab. Is that really a "misdemeanor?" It's a cheap "Jeep" branded knife made in china that I use to open boxes or letters with.

It's blade is also over 3" long... does that mean I can't carry it in my pocket either? I usually have the carrying tab on the outside of my pants.

Curious, because I don't want to get in trouble over something this dumb.

glockman19
03-29-2011, 11:54 AM
I'm curious about this "flip of the wrist" clause... I have a pocket knife that is a little loose, in that it was designed to have friction to open with a thumb tab, but if I swing it really hard, I can open it without the thumb tab. Is that really a "misdemeanor?" It's a cheap "Jeep" branded knife made in china that I use to open boxes or letters with.

It's blade is also over 3" long... does that mean I can't carry it in my pocket either? I usually have the carrying tab on the outside of my pants.

Curious, because I don't want to get in trouble over something this dumb.

In the City of Los Angeles YES...It is considered a switchblade. even if it has a thumb assist regardless of length.

Don't ask how I know.

sandman21
03-29-2011, 12:03 PM
City of Los Angeles 13.62.020
It is unlawful for any person to carry on his person, in plain view, any knife or dagger. (http://search.municode.com/html/16274/index.htm)

A knife is
"As used in this chapter, the terms “knives and daggers” shall include any knife having a blade of three inches or more in length; any spring-blade, switch-blade or snap-blade knife; any knife any blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device; any ice pick or similar sharp stabbing tool; any straight-edge razor or any razor blade fitted to a handle. "

LA only covers open carry not concealed.

rysmithjr
03-29-2011, 1:09 PM
That would mean if somebody is carrying a fixed blade knife for camping in a back pack or a kitchen knife in a shopping bag from the store to the car would fall under this.

I keep a fixed blade in my CERT kit & my go bag, so if I pick up those bags, I guess I am breaking the law. Bummer.

ubet
03-29-2011, 1:34 PM
And I thought gun laws are confusing.

M1A Riflemen, no I didnt spend over 200 on it. Knives are tools, its what I use them for. It will be an edc, but will use it to skin game, daily tasks ( I use a knife A LOT). If I am going to own something, I want to know that its high quality, and if its not, I will sell it, and find something similar.

InGrAM
03-29-2011, 2:05 PM
Meh,
I'd be more worried that you spent over $200 for a pocket knife rather than any laws saying you can't have it. Its a nice knife, but costly for use and EDC.

Knives are tools. I use mine at work almost everyday. Now, I did not spend $200 for mine but I did spend $50+ for a good kershaw and iv had 3 which have served me excellently in more than one self defense situation. A knife is a wonderful tool and it never runs out of ammo