PDA

View Full Version : Gun Buy-back program for CalGuns?


Maestro Pistolero
03-27-2011, 4:21 PM
Had an idea. Why don't have our own gun buyback program, say $25-100 for any functioning firearm, then auction them off to benefit the foundation? We collect them, screen them for possible theft, get them 'off the street' and into the hands of a new law-abiding new owner.

1000 guns bought for, say $50,000 could net a couple hundred thousand for the foundation.

Thoughts?

GOEX FFF
03-27-2011, 5:02 PM
My thoughts-

First, Great idea... Second, though I think most gunnies know the value and worth of most firearms, and aren’t some Joe Schmo, or Fanny Moe from the neighborhood that has no idea, where a $50.00 coupon to Wall-mart (like most "buy back" programs offer) is more enticing than an otherwise arm that’s 10 fold the value.

For most gunnies/collectors to sell something that cheap, you're talking about junk .22's and cheap starter guns in hopes to bring in substantial $$'s at auction.
My guess is that typical neighborhood "buy backs" bring in dollars because the value of what's being traded in far surpasses the value of what's given.

In anycase, it's a noble guesture, I just wonder how feasiable it would be.


On a side note, I always thought the term "buy-back" was a misnomer.
They weren’t previously owned by the folks buying them, so what is there to buy "back"?

NotEnufGarage
03-27-2011, 5:10 PM
Do you mean to buy guns for $25 - $100 from CalGuns members or set up something in some inner city or suburban area and buy them from the public?

I doubt many CalGunners would give up functioning firearms for $25 - $100, but a lot of suburbanites and city dwellers might. You'd probably need the cooperation of some LEA, in the form of some kind of partnership where you'd split the proceeds and you'd need working capital to pay for gift cards up front.

You'd need the LEA association to protect you from receiving any stolen guns. Wouldn't want CalGuns or members arrested for receiving stolen property. I don't think many LEA's would be too interested in putting the guns back out on the street, though.

hoffmang
03-27-2011, 5:21 PM
I think we'd need to work with a gun friendly law enforcement department to do the lost/stolen check. Obviously we'd need an FFL involved as well.

-Gene

resident-shooter
03-27-2011, 5:26 PM
I think we'd need to work with a gun friendly law enforcement department to do the lost/stolen check. Obviously we'd need an FFL involved as well.

-Gene

Yes, this is not as easy as said and done. A loooot of paperwork and if's involved.

Maestro Pistolero
03-27-2011, 5:42 PM
I meant buy from the general public, and sell on the open market as in Guns America and Gun Broker. Yes an FFl would need to be involved and a cooperative LE agency would speed the lost/stolen checks.

The net result and selling point (politically speaking) would be that each firearm turned in would undergo a lost/stolen check and be sold into the hands of law-abiding citizen who passed a NICS check.

Backcountry
03-27-2011, 5:44 PM
Bad idea... paperwork and legal nightmare... way easier and cheaper to just donate money directly to the foundation.

Maestro Pistolero
03-27-2011, 5:46 PM
My original guesstimates could be quite low as to the numbers. I realize this would be quite an undertaking. But potentially profitable.

I am wondering if there may be other opportunities to weave in a PR angle that would generate good buzz for CalGuns.

Maestro Pistolero
03-27-2011, 5:47 PM
Bad idea... paperwork and legal nightmare... way easier and cheaper to just donate money directly to the foundation.

You have another idea to generate 100s of thousands?

mrrsquared79
03-27-2011, 6:17 PM
hell I'll get my ffl just to help the cause! :D

wildhawker
03-27-2011, 6:26 PM
We have a solid network of supporting FFLs throughout the state and I'm sure we can find a few LEAs that would be willing to help.

wash
03-27-2011, 6:36 PM
I doubt you could make it "no questions asked" or violate GFSZs like the gun grabbers can.

Once you eliminate the crime guns there's not much except junk and widdows unloading their late husbands war relics and a few other oddballs like that. I don't think the relics would happen enough to pay for the pile of junk that we would be left with.

It's a nice idea in theory but it's probably easier to poach the nice guns at the grabber's buy back than try to legitimize the gun buy back business.

Maestro Pistolero
03-27-2011, 6:45 PM
I doubt you could make it "no questions asked" or violate GFSZs like the gun grabbers can. You could with the help of a friendly agency.

Bill Carson
03-27-2011, 6:57 PM
Isn't the basic philosophy of "Gun Buy-Back" programs that guns are dangerous, even the ones in your house. Criminals will break in to your house and steal your guns and use them to commit even more heinous crimes. We know this to be a lie so then how could we be on board with a program that promotes FUD.

RP1911
03-27-2011, 7:03 PM
I think we'd need to work with a gun friendly law enforcement department to do the lost/stolen check. Obviously we'd need an FFL involved as well.

-Gene

Sheriff Palmer? Can you just see the look on the local LEAs.

ETA: A gun show promoter has the proper credentials. So all we need is a location, clearing the serial numbers and an FFL.

ETA #2: A properly licensed FFL can receive guns. Then submit the form to their respective sheriff or PD for them to run the serial numbers. But then it won't be no questions asked.

GOEX FFF
03-27-2011, 7:24 PM
I meant buy from the general public, and sell on the open market as in Guns America and Gun Broker. Yes an FFl would need to be involved and a cooperative LE agency would speed the lost/stolen checks.

The net result and selling point (politically speaking) would be that each firearm turned in would undergo a lost/stolen check and be sold into the hands of law-abiding citizen who passed a NICS check.

Thanks for the clarity. I assumed you meant Calgunners being the ones to turn or sell their own arms. ;) But I see where you're going with it. In this case, sure, I think that if there is enough support with all the 01' FFLs and few LEO's here, this could be an opportunity to try and put together weighing all the details.

What would be the message? I’d think nothing but the truth in a case of raising money would be imperative.
Since all $ would be going to CGF. -
To support the California firearms community by promoting education for all stakeholders about California and Federal firearms laws, rights and privileges.
To defend and protect the civil rights of California gun owners.
To educate government and the public and protect the rights of individuals to acquire, own and lawfully use firearms in California.

Sounds good to me!

It would be touchy if it was misguided somehow that the pourpose for it would be other than that.

jdberger
03-27-2011, 8:46 PM
I like this.

We've got a couple FFLs who are activists. A couple sherriffs, too. The stumbling point would be locating the "buy back" in a sufficiently urban area.

Kid Stanislaus
03-27-2011, 9:13 PM
Speaking just for myself, I'd not ever want to be part of a "no questions asked" gun buybak program. YMMV

G1500
03-27-2011, 9:24 PM
You have another idea to generate 100s of thousands?

HAHAHAHA

:eek:

Maestro Pistolero
03-27-2011, 10:02 PM
Speaking just for myself, I'd not ever want to be part of a "no questions asked" gun buybak program. YMMV

Well, look at it this way. Say we buy someone's stolen gun back for cents on the dollar and they get it back, courtesy of CalGuns. We ask them to voluntarily repay the cost of the buyback for their gun plus a small donation.

Some say no, some say ok, and if you're like me, I pay you back double for your kindness. Either way we've done a good thing, and we've made new friends with a gun owner. Win/win in my book.

Maestro Pistolero
03-27-2011, 10:13 PM
As one possible PR/community service angle, maybe the whole thing is about funding or subsidizing a gun safety and marksmanship training program for all the new CCWrs we are going to have in CA after we win the good-cause battle.

When the legal battles are finally successful, there are going to be tens, if not hundreds of thousands of new CCWrs who haven't grown up in a gun culture, who don't have the four rules of gun safety ingrained in their DNA like some of us, and who will desperately be in need of training and guidance far beyond what a one day CCW class can offer.

Maestro Pistolero
03-27-2011, 10:32 PM
Isn't the basic philosophy of "Gun Buy-Back" programs that guns are dangerous, even the ones in your house. Criminals will break in to your house and steal your guns and use them to commit even more heinous crimes. We know this to be a lie so then how could we be on board with a program that promotes FUD.

It wouldn't, though. It is a buyback program that's promotes gun ownership. It turns the whole concept of 'guns are bad' on its's head. We come right out and say, this is to promote lawful, safe, gun ownership.

It totally usurps the anti's trick of attempting to demonstrate that guns are bad by removing them 'from the street', and turns it into "guns are good in the hands of law-abiding trained people" and Calguns helps train those law-abiding people with the money raised.

berto
03-27-2011, 10:54 PM
Interesting idea though I wonder if enough auctionable guns can be collected.

morfeeis
03-27-2011, 11:54 PM
just think of all the off roster handguns the bad guys have that we could then legally own!!!

i'm all for this buyback idea......

Maestro Pistolero
03-28-2011, 12:14 AM
This is the PR line: "This a way to bring firearms currently existing under the radar into the light of day at no legal risk, make sure they go into the hands of non-prohibited, law abiding persons via NICS, and to promote gun rights and gun safety at the same time"

Or something to that effect.

wildhawker
03-28-2011, 12:17 AM
This is the PR line: It's a way to bring firearms currently existing under the radar into the light of day at no legal risk, make sure they go into the hands of non-prohibited persons via NICS, and to promote gun rights and gun safety at the same time.

I would suggest you reach out to pullnshoot (Nate) for some additional feedback; he has some firsthand experience with these sorts of activities and has spent some time researching buybacks.

-Brandon

Ron-Solo
03-28-2011, 12:30 AM
DOJ has also changed they way FFLs must report the receipt of 2nd hand guns.

puppy8a9
03-28-2011, 12:31 AM
I am all for it but it would involve some serious planning and coordination. The more guns we can keep from being melted the better. It may be worth the time and sacrifice.

jdberger
03-28-2011, 12:32 AM
As has been evidenced in the previously publicized "buy backs" - most of the guns are neglected heirlooms that folks don't know how to get rid of.

Grandpa dies and leaves his old fowling piece to his granddaughter - who's twice removed from a rural hunting culture. She initially hangs onto it because it's a part of family history, but as time goes by, she just sees that old shotgun as a millstone she needs to hide from her precocious kids.

So - does she go to some gradeschool parking lot and hand over that Parker to a political climbing police chief and his city councilman counterpart to be crushed under the drum of a steamroller?

Or does she turn it in to a bunch of civil (gun) rights activists who will recycle the thing, sending it to a good home (or a farm to run and frolic in the fields)?

Maestro Pistolero
03-28-2011, 12:55 AM
I would suggest you reach out to pullnshoot (Nate) for some additional feedback; he has some firsthand experience with these sorts of activities and has spent some time researching buybacks.

-Brandon

Nate should be involved in any way he is willing to be. I can imagine that taking the anti's sacred concept of a gun buyback and inverting it to mean 'sell guns to law abiding people' ought to have rich ironic appeal to our friend Nate.

Realistically, such a major undertaking would require a team in CA. I would do whatever is possible from Vegas, but I am stuck here five days a week, with Sunday and Monday off. My time is my own during the day, however, for making calls or whatever can be done from here. I can travel as needed on Sunday and Monday.

Some of the needs/roles have already been identified in this thread:

FFL and LE agency support
Identify dense urban area as source for the guns
Design PR campaign/strategy to promote and sell the the buyback to the public
Legal oversight
Staffing the event
Managing and implementing the sale of the guns through whatever channels.

Lots of big jobs here.

. . . and probably 10 or 20 more issues that aren't occurring to me right at the moment.

Maestro Pistolero
03-28-2011, 1:01 AM
I pm'd Nate. Let's see what he thinks.

johnthomas
03-28-2011, 1:08 AM
For the nay-sayers, I did a quick search for gun buy back audits and pulled one up.
These things cost the city a lot of money. I think if done right, with the help of law enforcement to run the guns, a lot of guns could be saved, harvested for parts and sold at a profit for much less than is paid in cards and overtime. I would think this would be a welcome addition to the gun buy back program.
http://www.ci.buffalo.ny.us/files/1_2_1/AuditReports/070621.pdf

kel-tec-innovations
03-28-2011, 1:53 AM
Good idea, let me know when if it happens

nicki
03-28-2011, 7:15 AM
Many guns that will be turned in could be historic collector items that could have wound up in the melter.

Some things concern me, for instance what if someone turns in a NFA weapons such as a machinegun, a SBS or SBR, a listed RAW.

It would be interesting to see how many guns we get.


Nicki

Maestro Pistolero
03-28-2011, 8:51 AM
Many guns that will be turned in could be historic collector items that could have wound up in the melter.

Some things concern me, for instance what if someone turns in a NFA weapons such as a machinegun, a SBS or SBR, a listed RAW.

It would be interesting to see how many guns we get.


Nicki

If they have paper and are transferrable, they could be sold out of state for big bucks.

Maestro Pistolero
03-28-2011, 9:01 AM
How many we get will be a result of the PR effort and cooperation of the media. Having the LE agency in our corner would likely get us much better press.

Window_Seat
03-28-2011, 9:42 AM
How do we get our respective Law Enforcement Agencies in the know about what we are looking to do?

I of course have stressed in the past, letter writing.

I can email the CLEO of Newark, and ask him what he thinks about the idea. It's a start, no?

Erik.

Maestro Pistolero
03-28-2011, 9:56 AM
I think maybe approaching known friendly LE would be more fruitful. Don't know anything about Newark, but I suppose it can't hurt. There should be a fairly well fleshed-out plan before knocking on any doors, IMO. Don't want to appear foolish.

I know that some here have LE contacts who might be helpful, anyone want to chime in?

Window_Seat
03-28-2011, 9:58 AM
Let's get a plan hashed out, and I'll be the first to work on the LEA aspect (in Newark, and maybe Fremont/Union City/Milpitas, as far as asking for their cooperation). I already have a letter drafted, but it's just a prelim. draft. :D

Erik.

45DAVID1
03-28-2011, 10:02 AM
So, what do you do when you get in stolen/missing/lost guns that are listed as such in CLETS/NCIC?

What happens when a gun turned in can be traced to a crime such as a homicide?

As good of an idea as it sounds it is much more of a headache than anything else.

I have worked gun buybacks and 99% of the crap turned in are pieces of s*** that nobody wants because they are broken.

Maestro Pistolero
03-28-2011, 10:06 AM
Ok, WS.

Which CalGuns figures who would be concerned with such a project can start chiming in on some of the concepts laid out here? Let's get a list of who is willing to have input on the crafting and start focusing the concept, purpose, and action plan.

Not sure who all that would be, but JDBerger, WildHawker, who else? Let's get a team together and take this off line.

wash
03-28-2011, 10:12 AM
How about this: friendly LE agency asks a 07 (? NFA) FFL to make up some dealer sample AR15 machine guns but does not buy.

Friendly LE agency has a gun buy back fund raiser.

NFA FFL let's them buy his sample AR15 machine gun lowers for gift cards or cash.

Are those lowers now transferrable machine guns?

I don't see how CGF could get any of the money but it might be a weird back door in to the NFA registry maybe (for people in free states).

IntoForever
03-28-2011, 10:14 AM
So, what do you do when you get in stolen/missing/lost guns that are listed as such in CLETS/NCIC?

What happens when a gun turned in can be traced to a crime such as a homicide?

As good of an idea as it sounds it is much more of a headache than anything else.

I have worked gun buybacks and 99% of the crap turned in are pieces of s*** that nobody wants because they are broken.

I'm sure the people are looking to get rid of guns used in crimes anyways and a stolen/missing one can be reunited. I know if I had one missing, I'd want it back.

Pay based on the actual value of the gun. Broken/dangerous = much less $. I'm not saying actual value, just less for POS, like my Grendel 380.

I'd be down for volunteering my time at one of these if it goes through.

jdberger
03-28-2011, 10:21 AM
So, what do you do when you get in stolen/missing/lost guns that are listed as such in CLETS/NCIC?

What happens when a gun turned in can be traced to a crime such as a homicide?

As good of an idea as it sounds it is much more of a headache than anything else.

I have worked gun buybacks and 99% of the crap turned in are pieces of s*** that nobody wants because they are broken.

Stolen guns get turned into the PD. Any secondhand dealer has experience with this.

How do you think these guns will be "traced to a crime"? This isn't NCIS. Ballistic Fingerprinting is a myth. And you'd need to know the specific crime to match the specific gun. In other words - not gonna happen.

Window_Seat
03-28-2011, 10:24 AM
I would propose that whatever firearms are listed in whatever system as stolen, obviously they be returned to the rightful owner providing that they are not a "Prohibited person"...

Firearms that are listed as involved in a crime, to be entered into evidence, providing they are NOT destroyed by the LEA. (ETA); The that firearm be either sold or donated once the crime or whatever case is solved.

Firearms unregistered, or registered as legal firearms, taken and processed by the FFL, and then either sold (if they are sellable), or donated to someone in a low income or hardship situation.

Any ideas for historic or rare guns, relics, etc? Maybe we create a "Calguns Historic Arms Museum" for the purpose of keeping historic guns in a safe & proper place? Just a quick idea off the top (or the other top :D)

I have a neighbor who has told me in the past that she would like to see organizations (like the NRA) come up with something that donates firearms to women who want to own a gun but can't because of financial hardships, who are the subject of certain threats of violence, battered, etc., and can demonstrate a legitimate want & need. I like the idea, and here is a way to not only educate the public, but also show our true charitable character. And/Or maybe we work with the Pink Pistols on helping low/no income GLBTs to own guns because of the threats they face?

Erik.

creekside
03-28-2011, 10:40 AM
I would propose that whatever firearms are listed in whatever system as stolen, obviously they be returned to the rightful owner providing that they are not a "Prohibited person"...

Two letters:

1) Dear Gun Owner: please fill out this legally required paperwork to get your firearm back for free.

2) (with firearm) Now that you have your gun back, please consider donating to CalGuns.


Firearms that are listed as involved in a crime, to be entered into evidence, providing they are NOT destroyed by the LEA. (ETA); The that firearm be either sold or donated once the crime or whatever case is solved.

The firearm may be evidence for an agency with a different destruction policy than what we might prefer. I'd hate to have the negative PR of "CalGuns is holding evidence hostage" -- better to give the gun up.

Firearms unregistered, or registered as legal firearms, taken and processed by the FFL, and then either sold (if they are sellable), or donated to someone in a low income or hardship situation.

I love this idea!

Any ideas for historic or rare guns, relics, etc? Maybe we create a "Calguns Historic Arms Museum" for the purpose of keeping historic guns in a safe & proper place? Just a quick idea off the top (or the other top :D)

There is a California Military Museum in Sacramento. Perhaps CalGuns should start a traveling firearms display and/or museum of its own.

I have a neighbor who has told me in the past that she would like to see organizations (like the NRA) come up with something that donates firearms to women who want to own a gun but can't because of financial hardships, who are the subject of certain threats of violence, battered, etc., and can demonstrate a legitimate want & need.

Trumps a cell phone, doesn't it? Set it up as a 'scholarship' program and tie free training to it as well. Throw in the cell phone, too ;)

I like the idea, and here is a way to not only educate the public, but also show our true charitable character. And/Or maybe we work with the Pink Pistols on helping low/no income GLBTs to own guns because of the threats they face?

Please. This is a Really Good Idea. Especially in San Francisco.

45DAVID1
03-28-2011, 11:04 AM
Stolen guns get turned into the PD. Any secondhand dealer has experience with this.

How do you think these guns will be "traced to a crime"? This isn't NCIS. Ballistic Fingerprinting is a myth. And you'd need to know the specific crime to match the specific gun. In other words - not gonna happen.

You think so? I deal with BATFE and the test firing of guns/cartriges/fired bullets entered into IBIS. Seems you don't know as much on the subject matter as you think you do.

Maestro Pistolero
03-28-2011, 11:51 AM
You think so? I deal with BATFE and the test firing of guns/cartriges/fired bullets entered into IBIS. Seems you don't know as much on the subject matter as you think you do.

Well, then. Perhaps you'd like to share your wealth of information and experience with the rest of the class? Or is it more gratifying to merely call someone out who doesn't share your apparent top-secret security clearance. :rolleyes:

berto
03-28-2011, 12:02 PM
How do we deal with the unknowledgeable littlle old lady who shows up with a valuable gun? Does she get the $50 giftcard or do we pay her more, and ihow much more? Do we extend that courtesy to everybody?

45DAVID1
03-28-2011, 12:03 PM
Well, then. Perhaps you'd like to share your wealth of information and experience with the rest of the class? Or is it more gratifying to merely call someone out who doesn't share your apparent top-secret security clearance. :rolleyes:

Not really. I don't want to be involved in any way shape or form of this nightmare you are wanting to start!

The potential for this to be something great and turn into something bad is enormous.

Here is a hypothetic scenario:

Joe turns in his revolver because he just hates guns now. Someone buys Joe's old gun through a FFL and then shoots his old boss and co-workers because he got fired. Information comes out that Calguns/CGF/whoever held the gun buyback where this revolver came from. Multi-million dollar lawsuits get filed on everyone involved and it drags out in court for years.

Scenario 2:

Joe turns in his used and abused Davis .38 derringer. mary ends up buying the derringer because she thinks it would be a cool lil gun to keep in her purse. Mary's grand daughter goes into the purse and shoots herself killing her. Mary's mom finds out the derringer came from a CGN/CGF/whomever buyback. She goes to the media and talks negatively about CGn/CGF/whomever and it goes to the national level. Jack the lawyer picks up the case for free and sues everyone involved. New laws get passed that create even more firearm restrictions and we all suffer in the end.


The above reasons are why many agencies no longer auction off weapons. There is just too much liability in anything that could result in the aftermath of what initially was started to be a positive thing.

jdberger
03-28-2011, 12:10 PM
You think so? I deal with BATFE and the test firing of guns/cartriges/fired bullets entered into IBIS. Seems you don't know as much on the subject matter as you think you do.

OK, smart-guy.

Some localities, particularly Maryland, have attempted to build up a large database of "fingerprints"; in the case of the Maryland law, all new firearms sales must provide a fired case from the firearm in question to the Maryland State Police, who photograph it and log the information in a database. The Maryland State Police wrote a report critical of the program and asking the Maryland General Assembly to disband it, since it was expensive and had not contributed to solving a single crime.[4] Subsequently however, the database did provide evidence used to obtain one murder conviction at an estimated cost of 2.6 million dollars per conviction (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19876-2005Apr1.html).[5]

A California Department of Justice survey, using 742 guns used by the California Highway Patrol as a test bed, showed very poor results; even with such a limited database, less than 70% of cases of the same make as the "fingerprint" case yielded the correct gun in the top 15 matches; when a different make of ammunition was used, the success rate dropped to less than 40%.


So every gun picked up at the "buy back" is going to be test fired, the bullet and spent case is going to be sent to ATF for individual matching....

And how much is that going to cost?

Given that ATF can't even keep track of how many machine guns there are (http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/CRSmemoNFRTR0001.pdf) or how many rifles they're allowing criminals to smuggle across the border (http://articles.latimes.com/2011/mar/03/nation/la-na-guns-mexico-20110304) - I've some pretty serious doubts about their abilities to ID a "crime gun" from a random sample.

Unless, of course, they've started using psychics.... :rolleyes:

Maestro Pistolero
03-28-2011, 12:15 PM
Not really. I don't want to be involved in any way shape or form of this nightmare you are wanting to start!

What a disingenuous, ridiculous, off-point dodge. The question of whether bullet forensics is largely mythical is barely even tangential to the question of whether a buy-back of the sort proposed here is or isn't a nightmare, as you put it.

How old are you?

Excelsior
03-28-2011, 12:20 PM
Bad idea... paperwork and legal nightmare... way easier and cheaper to just donate money directly to the foundation.

Maestro Pistolero came up with a very creative idea that is worth discussing. Your "bad idea" retort added absolutely no value.

45DAVID1
03-28-2011, 12:23 PM
OK, smart-guy.



So every gun picked up at the "buy back" is going to be test fired, the bullet and spent case is going to be sent to ATF for individual matching....

And how much is that going to cost?



Actually yes. We held a buyback and test fire every gun before it can be destroyed. Infact, department policy is to test all firearms before they can be destroyed.

Cost? That's above my pay grade.

45DAVID1
03-28-2011, 12:25 PM
What a disingenuous, ridiculous, off-point dodge. The question of whether bullet forensics is largely mythical is barely even tangential to the question of whether a buy-back of the sort proposed here is or isn't a nightmare, as you put it.

How old are you?

My age has nothing to do with this. I work in a LEO position and work closely with the BATFE, and SB County SID who process IBIS entries. What experience do you have in this subject matter that would disprove anything I say?

Maestro Pistolero
03-28-2011, 12:31 PM
You haven't said anything, junior. That's my point. You come on here with a smug 'I know something you don't know' attitude, offering NOTHING helpful or informative.

If you now wish to share your apparent wealth of inside knowledge let's hear it. Otherwise there's nothing else to talk about so far, besides your juvenile posturing.

45DAVID1
03-28-2011, 12:33 PM
You haven't said anything, junior. That's my point. You come on here with a smug 'I know something you don't know' attitude, offering NOTHING helpful or informative.

If you now wish to share your apparent wealth of inside knowledge let's hear it. Otherwise there's nothing else to talk about so far, besides your juvenile posturing.

why so mad???
http://www.nibin.gov/hits-of-the-week/

Maestro Pistolero
03-28-2011, 12:48 PM
Not mad. Let's get back on topic.

If anyone in a better position than me, including you 45DAVID1 are aware of any unforeseen obstacles, as well as opportunities to fine tune this concept, or if you have contacts in LE, PR, FFLs who might be willing to help explore this, please PM me.

Jdberger I am PMing you with my phone contact info. Chat when you get a sec?

Window_Seat
03-28-2011, 12:56 PM
Not mad. Let's get back on topic.
...

Likewise.

Erik.

Maestro Pistolero
03-28-2011, 1:24 PM
Thanks to 45david1 for a helpful PM.

HowardW56
03-28-2011, 1:24 PM
I think we'd need to work with a gun friendly law enforcement department to do the lost/stolen check. Obviously we'd need an FFL involved as well.

-Gene

That could be interesting... Could you imagine the article in the San Francisco Chronicle, the LA Times, or the Sacramento Bee…
XXX (Insert County Name of Choice) County Sheriff to hold Gun Buy Back at Juniors Hardware in Downtown Los Angeles from 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM. The persons binging in guns will be paid up to $200.00 in US Currency for each firearm. This event is upsetting to Sheriff Baca and Police Chief Beck, as it doesn't guarantee the destruction of the firearms; firearms found to have been stolen will be returned to their rightful owners; and otherwise lawful firearms will be sold with the profits being donated to help the State of California's budget crisis. The funds will be specifically earmarked for public safety programs. This gun buyback event is being sponsored by the Calguns Foundation.

N6ATF
03-28-2011, 1:29 PM
Not really. I don't want to be involved in any way shape or form of this nightmare you are wanting to start!

The potential for this to be something great and turn into something bad is enormous.

zT2q7o-zv64


Try non-existent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

Quser.619
03-28-2011, 1:51 PM
Sounds like it has the potential to be positive both in public PR & a means to save firearms from destruction. Seems a win-win to me.

I'm sure that before anything moved forward the sharp legal minds would revue & prepare for any problems that might arise.

I for one, would like to establish a more positive relationship w/ local law enforcement & we could use this event as a means to provide more education for the departments involved. We could pass out flow-charts, etc.

IntoForever
03-28-2011, 7:10 PM
That could be interesting... Could you imagine the article in the San Francisco Chronicle, the LA Times, or the Sacramento Bee…
XXX (Insert County Name of Choice) County Sheriff to hold Gun Buy Back at Juniors Hardware in Downtown Los Angeles from 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM. The persons binging in guns will be paid up to $200.00 in US Currency for each firearm. This event is upsetting to Sheriff Baca and Police Chief Beck, as it doesn't guarantee the destruction of the firearms; firearms found to have been stolen will be returned to their rightful owners; and otherwise lawful firearms will be sold with the profits being donated to help the State of California's budget crisis. The funds will be specifically earmarked for public safety programs. This gun buyback event is being sponsored by the Calguns Foundation.



This would keep me from offering to volunteer. Way to piss on the parade!

jdberger
03-28-2011, 10:13 PM
This would keep me from offering to volunteer. Way to piss on the parade!

Everything is in flux. Nothing is set in stone.

However, don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good....

vincnet11
03-28-2011, 10:56 PM
The purpose of a no questions asked gun buy back is to destroy them, so they spend money either way for that purpose. But if your goal is to resell the guns then you lose money from illegal or stolen guns.

wildhawker
03-28-2011, 11:05 PM
The purpose of a no questions asked gun buy back is to destroy them, so they spend money either way for that purpose. But if your goal is to resell the guns then you lose money from illegal or stolen guns.

The risk is that the margin potential of salable firearms outweigh the losses recognized from those which cannot be turned over. I love the smell of capitalism in the evening.

-Brandon

luckystrike
03-28-2011, 11:05 PM
Many guns that will be turned in could be historic collector items that could have wound up in the melter.

Some things concern me, for instance what if someone turns in a NFA weapons such as a machinegun, a SBS or SBR, a listed RAW.

It would be interesting to see how many guns we get.


Nicki

please, "machine gun" is a gayTF term. dont complement them. say "auto" instead :)

Maestro Pistolero
03-28-2011, 11:38 PM
Will need a couple of volunteer gunsmiths to help evaluate functionality.

Smokeybehr
03-29-2011, 10:49 AM
I think that we should leverage the network of FFLs to our advantage by listing them on a webpage, and taking out ads around the state with something akin to "Have an unwanted firearm around your house? Visit (website address) or one of the dealers listed below for more details on how to dispose of it." with the local FFL sponsors listed below. The FFLs would have all the details on the program, and would handle the process with support from CGF and his local LEA.

jonyg
03-29-2011, 11:51 AM
As one possible PR/community service angle, maybe the whole thing is about funding or subsidizing a gun safety and marksmanship training program for all the new CCWrs we are going to have in CA after we win the good-cause battle.

When the legal battles are finally successful, there are going to be tens, if not hundreds of thousands of new CCWrs who haven't grown up in a gun culture, who don't have the four rules of gun safety ingrained in their DNA like some of us, and who will desperately be in need of training and guidance far beyond what a one day CCW class can offer.

I do like this idea. Using some of it to offer safety training and clarification of laws would help a lot. It most certainly would shut up anti's about the oh-so-terrible-dangers of the self-firing gun.

dantodd
03-29-2011, 3:24 PM
I wonder if CalGuns could save the DROS fee on the firearms it takes in by taking advantage of


12078. (g)(1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale or transfer of a firearm, other than a handgun, at auctions or similar events conducted by nonprofit mutual or public benefit corporations organized pursuant to the Corporations Code. As used in this paragraph, the term "infrequent" shall not be construed to prohibit different local chapters of the same nonprofit corporation from conducting auctions or similar events, provided the individual local chapter conducts the auctions or similar events infrequently. It is the intent of the Legislature that different local chapters, representing different localities, be entitled to invoke the exemption created by this paragraph, notwithstanding the frequency with which other chapters of the same nonprofit corporation may conduct auctions or similar events.

Note, that it doesn't say the transfer has to be "from" the non-profit. This way CGN could take in all the firearms it wants to, sort out the garbage and ship it off to the police etc. and then auction off the usable guns. Items that are safe and "usable" but not valuable enough to auction off could be distributed to people who have a need for self-defense but do not have the means to acquire a firearm.