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View Full Version : Michigan looks at stun guns


vantec08
03-27-2011, 6:07 AM
http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2011/03/post_69.html

Some consistently whine about "lethal" force, so here is a less-than-lethal alternative - - -- - and its being resisted???

Norcal Industries
03-27-2011, 6:24 AM
in the comment section, "thekatman" cracked me up, what an idiot.

cdtx2001
03-27-2011, 7:59 AM
http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2011/03/post_69.html

Some consistently whine about "lethal" force, so here is a less-than-lethal alternative - - -- - and its being resisted???

Of course it is. No one (antis that is) will be happy until you can stop a criminal with just a hug. Although, I'm sure there will be some resistance to that as well since a hug will have to involve some sort of physical contact. What if the bad guy doesn't want a hug? Consideration must be given to what the bad guy wants as well.

Anyhow, back to reality. Ask those weirdos what they want. Do they want a police officer to use their pistol all the time, or use something that has a high probability of not killing the suspect?

The Shadow
03-27-2011, 10:53 AM
I'm really testing my memory here but don't the degrees of force run in the order, from bottom to top:

6. Firearm (when being used to defend yourself from great bodily injury or death)
5. Taser
4. baton/big stick
3. pepper spray
2. physical (hands on) restraint/defense
1. verbal command/warning

I think pepper spray's a good thing so long as you're not facing into the wind, and a Taser is fine if you're confronted by only one attacker who isn't carrying a gun. I think having a baton/big stick is far more useful because used properly, it is far more effective and versatile than pepper spray or a Taser. And I don't think I need to comment on the obvious use of a gun when everything else isn't an option.

glockman19
03-27-2011, 10:55 AM
Michael Feur tried to get this type of legislation her in CA. Making non-lethal forms of self defense illegal.

GettoPhilosopher
03-27-2011, 11:45 AM
I love the part where the deputy is talking about fearing that criminals will steal tasers from CCW holders and use them.

Because...uh...it's easier to find a CCW holder with a taser and steal it from them than it is to go to the state next door and buy it? 0_o

nick
03-27-2011, 12:33 PM
My personal favorite:

Muskegon County Undersheriff Dan Stout said he sees “both sides” of the issue.

“I can see where people say, ‘I don’t want to kill somebody, but I want to protect my family,’” Stout said. “On the other hand, I can see people getting a false sense of security, too, and maybe not waiting for local law enforcement to get there. They need to let the true professionals take over.”

Gecko45, where art thou??? :p

Maestro Pistolero
03-27-2011, 12:38 PM
We are required by law and common decency to use only as much force as is necessary to stop a threat. That is not possible without less lethal alternatives, especially for elderly, smallish folks, and those with disabilities.

I would love to see some DA try to explain that while carrying a licensed firearm does not present an unwarranted threat to public safety, a taser (or a baton, or a stun gun, or pepper spray) somehow does. LOL

nick
03-27-2011, 12:40 PM
With that said, I think a Taser is a poor choice for a self-defense weapon, unless it's all that's available to you. However, there's no good reason for it to be up to the state to dictate your choice of a carry weapon.

Maestro Pistolero
03-27-2011, 12:54 PM
With that said, I think a Taser is a poor choice for a self-defense weapon, unless it's all that's available to you. However, there's no good reason for it to be up to the state to dictate your choice of a carry weapon.

Depends. That's what having choices is all about. Let's say you come upon an assault of a helpless individual in a parking lot. Let's say, in your view that neither the victim nor you are in danger of losing your life yet, but that intervention is obviously warranted.

I think a taser is a perfect choice, provided you can get a clean shot and assuming it's not January in Buffalo and the guy is wearing a 4-inch thick parka.

I never leave my house without pepper spray in the same pocket everyday, and a little defensive flashlight that essentially doubles as a kubaton. That's because I never leave the house unarmed. I feel it is my responsibility, once armed to have less lethal choices.

Take my scenario above again. A good tactic, depending on the particulars of the scene of course, might be to quickly and quietly approach while the assailant is preoccupied with his evil-doing, and blast him in the face with pepper spray followed by groin shot/throat-punch/ear-pop to soften him up for some escape time.

At the end of the day, it is much better that you get to go home, the bad guy goes to the hospital on the way to jail, and there are no lawyers to pay.

I think once carry is officially protected outside of the home via the high court, less lethal weapons will be a slam dunk for 2A protection.

Cokebottle
03-27-2011, 1:37 PM
Commercial stun guns are worthless for self defense.

woodsman
03-27-2011, 3:09 PM
"But, like Blackmer, many law enforcement officials oppose the idea and hope to steer people toward using pepper spray as a means of protection."

Pepper spray?!?! What's next, Hornet nest spray?

I'm sure if we told those "many law enforcement officials" that they could only carry pepper spray as a means of protection, they may disagree.

N6ATF
03-27-2011, 4:08 PM
The only real way pepper spray is a means of protection is if it comes in grenade form, where you pull the pin, throw it, and it explodes a 200 foot cloud in 2 seconds that completely obscures the criminal's vision and makes them choke violently.

But, too much collateral damage. And you better be running with your nose, eyes and mouth closed when you throw it.

Mimi_T
03-27-2011, 4:53 PM
I'm not surprised it's being resisted. The lemmings tend to be terribly shocked whenever anyone mentions they'd like to be able to defend themselves.

I've received similar reactions from people when mentioning an item as simple and harmless as pepper spray.

People would stare at me in shock and act like I'm paranoid or even dangerous when I'd explain to them that since I'm a girl and I had to go out late at night (and take the subway and some dark streets etc. to get to the place where I'd practice sports), I like to carry pepper spray in my handbag.

They'd look all shocked and ask me why in the world I'd feel the need to carry pepper spray, with a mix of distaste and amusement as if the idea of owning such a thing was bizarre, unnecessary or even dangerous.

This behavior coming from people who have seen gang issues and all sorts of things in the subway and the streets etc. which I had to take to get to the sports club.

The level of denial people can reach about self-defense is amazing. So many don't even consider it to be something that deserves a single thought... Violence doesn't exist in their world, "it only happens to other people", until the day something happens to them too, of course.