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View Full Version : Proposed Legislation that would ban Lathes, Hacksaws?


Unintended
03-25-2011, 5:52 PM
Hello, I'm new to your forum.

I'm writing a book. I heard (but can't remember where, and can't find the source) that recently a law was proposed to make any tool that could be used to illegally modify a gun, illegal.

When the legislator was told this would outlaw lathes, files, and hacksaws, the legislation was quietly withdrawn.

If this story is true, I'd like to use it as an example of how legislators frequently do not think through the consequences of their actions.

But darn it, for the life of me, I can't find any references to this proposed law. I have contacted the NRA with this same question, weeks ago, and was emphatically ignored.

Did this happen, or was it just a rumor/story? Thanks!

Merc1138
03-25-2011, 5:58 PM
Maybe what you heard meant that some legislator came up with the idea and discussed it, not necessarily put it on the floor for the rest of the legislature to vote on.

SkatinJJ
03-25-2011, 6:00 PM
I'll not ignore you, but I do challenge you to research your topic more carefully than asking here.

Please search the web for legislation and use key words.

I've not heard of this.

Thanks,

JJ

Unintended
03-25-2011, 6:34 PM
I'll not ignore you, but I do challenge you to research your topic more carefully than asking here. Please search the web for legislation and use key words.

You challenge me to research my topic more carefully? Thanks, that's helpful.

I thought asking a group of people who are highly informed about gun legislation might put me on the right track.

Of course I've searched elsewhere. I've spend many hours trying to track this story down. The usual media sources are unhelpful as you might imagine. Nothing pops in Lexis Nexis. I contacted the NRA weeks ago and received no reply beyond their 'we have received your email and will get back to you'.

I will have to admit, I'm puzzled by the immediate hostility. Maybe I'm wrong, but the way I read your comment is "Get lost." Is this the sort of welcome most new members get?

Chief-7700
03-25-2011, 6:40 PM
Please provide verifiable links to your assumptions. Sure smells and looks like BS AKA FUD.

choprzrul
03-25-2011, 6:45 PM
Eh, never mind them and welcome to Calguns! For what its worth, when I read your OP I just naturally figured that you had already done the standard research and that research led you here.

Be rest assured, if it happened, someone here has heard about it. The top right corner of each page here has a 'search' link. It gives you the option to use Google to search CGN for material.

Good luck in your search, and again, welcome to Calguns.

G60
03-25-2011, 6:46 PM
Jesus people, read. He's asking for help finding out if something he heard is true or not. I can't offer any help, but I can read at least.

Unintended
03-25-2011, 6:46 PM
Verifiable links to my assumptions...

First, there is no assumption. I don't know if the story is true or not. I am asking if anyone has heard a report like this...have there been any laws proposed to outlaw tools that could modify weapons? Second, I am looking for links that I can verify. I can't provide you with links that I don't have, sorry.

This has proved difficult to track, I think in part because the legislation never got anywhere. It's the sort of information I was hoping people on the inside track might have heard.

OleCuss
03-25-2011, 6:47 PM
IIRC, years ago Perata was working on legislation to ban all firearms with a foregrip. When it was pointed out to him just how broad that ban would be and just how much of a furor it would cause (I think by the NRA, IIRC) he sort of decided not to pursue that provision. . .

burr2of4
03-25-2011, 6:49 PM
Maybe what you heard meant that some legislator came up with the idea and discussed it, not necessarily put it on the floor for the rest of the legislature to vote on.

I think this is likley. and dont worry about skatinjj... you will find people with that attitude everywhere you go now days.

Unintended
03-25-2011, 6:49 PM
If you haven't heard the story, that's OK. No need to attack me if you haven't, though.

SkatinJJ
03-25-2011, 6:52 PM
Sorry to be so come off as annoyed as I did.

Welcome to Calguns.

To answer your question; No I've not heard of such legislation. That doesn't mean there's not such legislation, but your mileage may vary.

Unintended
03-25-2011, 6:55 PM
OK, "we cool," thanks. If you hear of anything let me know.

I'm worried that I may have heard this story at a dinner I attended with scores of lobbyists a year ago. Worried, because there may be no physical trace of the story if I can't find that lobbyist who was sitting across the table from me. And I have met hundreds of lobbyists so it's a needle in the haystack. It may have truly been an "inside story" which is why I'm finding it impossible to track down.

magsnubby
03-25-2011, 6:55 PM
The list of tools would be endless. Hmmm...lemme see...hacksaws because they can be used to make a sawed off shot gun...screwdrivers because the are used to remove the stock on an AR15/AK47 to replace it with a pistol grip...hammers to knock out pins to remove sears so they can be modified to full auto...

But this is Kalifornya so anything is possible

Unintended
03-25-2011, 7:00 PM
Yes, what makes the story a good one is its foolishness. A file would be illegal. However I'm not at all sure it was a California law, or federal, or what. I curse myself that I did not make a note of this story as soon as I heard it. At the time I didn't realize I'd need the story later. It got filed away in memory with no attribution. I'm very irritated at myself. I usually keep better notes.

Mikeb
03-25-2011, 7:03 PM
They'll take my lathe from my cold dead hands, if they bring a forklift and clear a bunch of junk out of the way...
take care
Mike

Unintended
03-25-2011, 7:05 PM
LOL, good one!

If this story is true, who would know? Wouldn't you think someone working in NRA's legislative wing would have heard this, if true?

jtmkinsd
03-25-2011, 7:38 PM
I can't be of much help other than to say at some point I recall hearing something along the lines you are talking about. The way I heard it, the particular legislator was writing a draft and was "informed" the way he wrote it would lead to the illegalization of shop tools and lathes and such. From what I understood, it wasn't even completed...so nothing ever came of it.

goober
03-25-2011, 7:53 PM
if a thorough search of actual proposed legislation, that is bills that actually were submitted for consideration, doesn't turn up anything along the lines of what you're describing, then i'm afraid all you have is hearsay about how ill advised some legislator's idea was.
hardly groundbreaking or useful for anything beyond casual b*tchfest conversation.
more power to you if you can find some evidence that such a bill was ever officially proposed, but i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you have actually searched those archives and come up empty. which means that if it happened at all, it probably went something like the way Merc1138 and others suggested. in other words, not that interesting or useful.
but good luck, let us know how it turns out.

Unintended
03-25-2011, 8:06 PM
I can't be of much help other than to say at some point I recall hearing something along the lines you are talking about. The way I heard it, the particular legislator was writing a draft and was "informed" the way he wrote it would lead to the illegalization of shop tools and lathes and such. From what I understood, it wasn't even completed...so nothing ever came of it.

Yes, that sounds to be the same story, exactly. So at least I didn't dream this! OK, thanks. Feeling some relief; was beginning to wonder if I was delusional.

but i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you have actually searched those archives and come up empty

One problem is that "those archives" are not consolidated in one easily searchable source. Further, legislation would only make it into archives after a certain point, and I don't recollect that proposed legislation gets archived. I recollect this was tabled immediately after the fatal flaw was pointed out. Third, don't know if this was federal or state law, so I'd be looking all over the place.

If you ever try to write a book you'll find you're confronted with all kinds of stuff you "know" for which you don't remember the source. So you have to roll up your sleeves and hunt down sources for every danged fact you want to cite, or leave it behind. For example, look how I got jumped on this forum for simply asking if the story was familiar? "What's your source!!?" Yes, exactly.

That's why I'm hoping this story rings a bell with someone who can put me on the path. Thanks again! Hope is renewed if this sounds familiar to Jtmkinsd.

goober
03-25-2011, 8:07 PM
IIRC, years ago Peruta was working on legislation to ban all firearms with a foregrip. When it was pointed out to him just how broad that ban would be and just how much of a furor it would cause (I think by the NRA, IIRC) he sort of decided not to pursue that provision. . .

Peruta?
you mean Perea? Perez? Padilla?
the only Peruta that comes to mind is Ed Peruta, and he's not a legislator :p

Pete Albrecht
03-25-2011, 8:22 PM
FWIW, many years ago I "heard" (so it must be true) that in Saudi Arabia, you need a license to have machine tools (even in a home shop setting) because They fear they could be used to make weapons.

I have looked for something, anything to back up that story, and found absolutely nothing.

A search for hacksaw outlawed guns leads straight back to this very thread. So... it must be true! :-)

Unintended
03-28-2011, 10:21 AM
Finally got in touch with someone who works at the NRA and he said the story sounded familiar...he said he'd ask around to see if he could source this story.

otalps
03-28-2011, 10:44 AM
I've never heard of that proposal but it is in ways similar to the proposed ban of using salt in restaurants in New York that had a lot of unintended consequences as well.

imtheomegaman
03-28-2011, 10:59 AM
Anything is possible with our legislators. This (attempted or considered) legislation sounds too bizarre to be - untrue -.

stix213
03-28-2011, 11:01 AM
As far as laws with unintended consequences, I'd suggest prohibition and the resulting mob violence.

Nick Justice
03-28-2011, 1:44 PM
I have never heard of such a proposal or bill introduced. But I have heard of some others:

Make marriage between races illegal. (1912)

Abolish the US Army and Navy. (1893)

Limit personal wealth to no more than $1 million. (1933)

Eliminate "the President" and replace it with a three-member executive council. (1878)

gratefuldog
03-28-2011, 6:13 PM
They'll take my lathe from my cold dead hands, if they bring a forklift and clear a bunch of junk out of the way...

THIS!
and they might as well take the mill, too!:rolleyes:

rivraton
03-28-2011, 6:25 PM
Yes, what makes the story a good one is its foolishness. A file would be illegal. However I'm not at all sure it was a California law, or federal, or what. I curse myself that I did not make a note of this story as soon as I heard it. At the time I didn't realize I'd need the story later. It got filed away in memory with no attribution. I'm very irritated at myself. I usually keep better notes.

Foolisness has never stopped the anti-gunners before(nor even slowed them down):rolleyes:

ojisan
03-28-2011, 6:47 PM
I can't be of much help other than to say at some point I recall hearing something along the lines you are talking about. The way I heard it, the particular legislator was writing a draft and was "informed" the way he wrote it would lead to the illegalization of shop tools and lathes and such. From what I understood, it wasn't even completed...so nothing ever came of it.

Correct.
I'm thinking 25-30 years ago.
It was the topic of much public outrage.
:wheelchair:

truthseeker
03-28-2011, 7:38 PM
Try searching here

http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=018149931542195181678:pzxbzjzh1zk

tuolumnejim
03-28-2011, 8:15 PM
Maybe ask on machine tool forums also.

Unintended
03-29-2011, 10:29 AM
This may be a dead end. Latest report I received from within NRA is that some people recollect a story similar to this but can't put their fingers on a source; others within the NRA are disputing the story. Just like here...! If I can't source it, I can't use it, dead end.

Thanks just the same...

chaseface
03-29-2011, 1:09 PM
Doesnt this just sound like a bad joke that you would hear at some NRA function?

The Cable Guy
03-29-2011, 1:19 PM
Funny how a lot of members who are basically saying "Do your research before posting" are completely mis-reading the original post. Possibly not even reading it at all.

The irony is astounding.