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Tier One Arms
03-25-2011, 2:31 PM
The cost of getting a CCW is too expensive, what is being done to lower CCW fees?

stix213
03-25-2011, 2:39 PM
How about we get to the part where everyone can at least get one before we worry about fixing the relatively minor details?

Tier One Arms
03-25-2011, 2:41 PM
While I agree that shall issue is important, as a resident of Kern County, I can get one pretty easily, but as a college student I can't easily afford it.

G60
03-25-2011, 2:50 PM
Kern county doesn't charge any fees over what is allowed by law. You'll probably be out of college by the time the fees allowed by law are changed.

Decoligny
03-25-2011, 3:14 PM
And Kern County doesn't charge a single penny until your good cause has been approved. If your good cause is disapproved, you don't pay a penny. Most other counties take the processing fee (non-refundable) up front, at the very least.

Tier One Arms
03-25-2011, 3:22 PM
Having to pay $166 is to much, plus you have to pay another $100 the ccw class. There should be no training requirement, and the fee's should be slashed in half.

wildhawker
03-25-2011, 3:23 PM
And Kern County doesn't charge a single penny until your good cause has been approved. If your good cause is disapproved, you don't pay a penny. Most other counties take the processing fee (non-refundable) up front, at the very least.

Kern's policy is somewhat convenient but inconsistent with the Penal Code. They must accept the application - though they don't have to collect local fees - and collect fees for the DOJ background check, as well as collect and forward fingerprints for same.

dantodd
03-25-2011, 3:28 PM
Having to pay $166 is to much, plus you have to pay another $100 the ccw class. There should be no training requirement, and the fee's should be slashed in half.

I should be a billionaire and free to do as I wish with any property I own. I should be able to but a new Mb-16 and I should be as thin as I was at 20.

Now.... Reality is that some of these will never happen and the others take time and hard work.

Everyone here is well aware of the inequities created by the fees for CCWs in CA's and their disparate impact on those who have a lower income.

Decoligny
03-25-2011, 3:39 PM
Kern's policy is somewhat convenient but inconsistent with the Penal Code. They must accept the application - though they don't have to collect local fees - and collect fees for the DOJ background check, as well as collect and forward fingerprints for same.

If you are going by my post in the other thread, I did mention that I probably misunderstood what I thought I had been told.

As I recall the lady told be I don't pay anything until I was approved. By that I "think" she meant that I don't pay until my good cause has been accepted. At that point I will be required to go in pay my fees, get my fingerprints taken and they would send the whole ball of wax off for the DOJ background check.

If this is indeed the correct interpretation of the process, I don't see how it is inconsistant with the Penal Code. They collect the county administrative fee only if they approve the good cause (they could legally collect them approved or disapproved), and then they collect the State fee and forward the package. If they don't approve the good cause, they don't charge anything (the county eats the cost of processing to this point), and they don't forward it to DOJ, so they don't collect any State level fees either.

Monte
03-25-2011, 3:47 PM
The cost of getting a CCW is too expensive, what is being done to lower CCW fees?

While I agree that the fees are too high, as someone who lives in San Diego County, I just have to say: :ban:



:43:

oni.dori
03-25-2011, 3:49 PM
While I agree that shall issue is important, as a resident of Kern County, I can get one pretty easily, but as a college student I can't easily afford it.

Having to pay $166 is to much, plus you have to pay another $100 the ccw class. There should be no training requirement, and the fee's should be slashed in half.

So, since your county is virtually shall-issue, who cares about the rest of us, lets just get you your problem first, right? Because, our "broblem" isn't as important as yours, I get it.

Well how about this, I'm not in college, and I CAN afford (and would gladly pay $300 for) a CCW, so I really don't give a d@mn about you not being able to afford it because you are. So, how about we just continue to fix the broken issuing process here in CA instead, K?

It's great when your own logic/thought process/priority process is used against you, isn't it?

I see that you have a nice bike in your sig picture. I am going to make an educated guess that, more than likely, it is a picture of yours (or at least, you may have someone similar to it/made by the same manufacturer). Well, bikes can be expensive little toys to upkeep and use (ESPECIALLY the insurance for a person of college age). Maybe instead you should give up the bike so you can afford the CCW.

blakdawg
03-25-2011, 3:53 PM
While I agree that shall issue is important, as a resident of Kern County, I can get one pretty easily, but as a college student I can't easily afford it.

That's life as a college student.

If you can get a CCW as a CA-resident college student, you're better off than most of the population of this state.

wildhawker
03-25-2011, 3:54 PM
You're actually highlighting the very inconsistencies I mentioned. The licensing authority has a duty to take the application *and any requisite state fees* to initiate the process.

12052(a): The fingerprints of each applicant shall be taken and two copies on forms prescribed by the Department of Justice shall be forwarded to the department [of Justice].

The only variance from this is if the applicant has already applied and/or paid fees.

12054(a): Each applicant for a new license or for the renewal of a license shall pay at the time of filing his or her application a fee determined by the Department of Justice not to exceed the application processing costs of the Department of Justice for the direct costs of furnishing the report required by Section 12052...The officer receiving the application and the fee shall transmit the fee, with the fingerprints if required, to the Department of Justice. The licensing authority of any city, city and county, or county may charge an additional fee in an amount equal to the actual costs for processing the application for a new license, excluding fingerprint and training costs, but in no case to exceed one hundred dollars ($100), and shall transmit the additional fee, if any, to the city, city and county, or county treasury. The first 20 percent of this additional local fee may be collected upon filing of the initial application. The balance of the fee shall be collected only upon issuance of the license.

12053(a): A record of the following shall be maintained in the office of the licensing authority:
(1) The denial of a license.
(2) The denial of an amendment to a license.
(3) The issuance of a license.
(4) The amendment of a license.
(5) The revocation of a license.
(b) Copies of each of the following shall be filed immediately by the issuing officer or authority with the Department of Justice:
(1) The denial of a license.
(2) The denial of an amendment to a license.
(3) The issuance of a license.
(4) The amendment of a license.
(5) The revocation of a license.

If you are going by my post in the other thread, I did mention that I probably misunderstood what I thought I had been told.

As I recall the lady told be I don't pay anything until I was approved. By that I "think" she meant that I don't pay until my good cause has been accepted. At that point I will be required to go in pay my fees, get my fingerprints taken and they would send the whole ball of wax off for the DOJ background check.

If this is indeed the correct interpretation of the process, I don't see how it is inconsistant with the Penal Code. They collect the county administrative fee only if they approve the good cause (they could legally collect them approved or disapproved), and then they collect the State fee and forward the package. If they don't approve the good cause, they don't charge anything (the county eats the cost of processing to this point), and they don't forward it to DOJ, so they don't collect any State level fees either.

kasarilouma
03-25-2011, 4:19 PM
How about you pay more attention to your classes and courses and get CCW later when you get a job.
Fees is the last thing that this people here care about. They are all fighting hard to get one first.
May be if the fees get slashed to half like you want, later on you still going to want it for free.

wildhawker
03-25-2011, 4:48 PM
Kasar, I want zero fees, too. (I'm also a proponent of zero-permit manner-choice systems). We can and will reduce fees after we secure the right to bear arms.

Fjold
03-25-2011, 4:50 PM
There's a lot of animosity in this thread.

chris12
03-25-2011, 4:50 PM
The fees should be lower (read $0). Don't get mad at the guy because the fees are a barrier to him getting a permit. He could save up and get one, just like anyone else could move to a shall issue county or another state and get one; doesn't mean that is reasonable or constitutional.

I do agree with what I see as CGF priorities of getting shall issue first, then attacking the fees.

kasarilouma
03-25-2011, 5:13 PM
I did not mean to be mean to the guy. Everyone likes free stuff, but my point was that after a long fight here in sacramento to get permits, fees were the last thing to worry about.

HowardW56
03-25-2011, 5:20 PM
Having to pay $166 is to much, plus you have to pay another $100 the ccw class. There should be no training requirement, and the fee's should be slashed in half.

If you can't afford $266, maybe you had better look for a higher paying job...

Anchors
03-25-2011, 5:23 PM
I would pay $400 right now for a CCW (if it was cheaper to renew of course).

So $266 isn't half bad...
Then again, I'll be in Arizona in 12 hours are carrying for free. So I guess it is relative.
AZ CCW is $60 plus probably $60 for the class you have to take and whatever the live scan place charges.
So at least $130, probably more.
So even in free states, it isn't that much cheaper (then again I think it's good for five years).

I'm also a college student and work a low-paying retail job.

707electrician
03-25-2011, 5:25 PM
No sympathy here

dantodd
03-25-2011, 5:33 PM
There's a lot of animosity in this thread.

I think it is because a lot of the people replying are the same ones who have given time, treasure and work just to get where we are and get offended when someone comes in and starts saying that we aren't doing enough for "them" when most of us would give our left nut to have the opportunities he has.

In short people feel like their real efforts are being demeaned by the childish demands of someone who has not shown an interest (or apparent history) in contributing to the fight.

stix213
03-25-2011, 6:16 PM
I would pay $400 right now for a CCW (if it was cheaper to renew of course).

So $266 isn't half bad...


I'd probably pay $4k... still not getting one in Sonoma County though cause I lack LEO connections nor do I own enough land. Actually come to think of it I'd rather get one through San Francisco (since I work there) cause it would just be hilarious if they had to give me one.

Quser.619
03-25-2011, 6:23 PM
Must be rough, I was too busy trying to figure how to pay for beer & ramen when I was in college.

zfields
03-25-2011, 6:25 PM
I'd probably pay $4k... still not getting one in Sonoma County though cause I lack LEO connections nor do I own enough land. Actually come to think of it I'd rather get one through San Francisco (since I work there) cause it would just be hilarious if they had to give me one.

Good luck in sonoma co! Even with leo connections its nearly impossible.

Tier One Arms
03-26-2011, 5:12 PM
Ok, so I was gone for a day and just checked back in, most of you are a buch of jerks. Not once did I say that shall issue was not important, and not once did I say that CGF was not doing enough for me. I just asked a simple question, no need to be *******s. What good is a "right" if you can't afford to exercise it? And to oni.dori, how about you mind your own business, and don't worry about what I do with MY money, jerk.

HowardW56
03-26-2011, 5:30 PM
Ok, so I was gone for a day and just checked back in, most of you are a buch of jerks. Not once did I say that shall issue was not important, and not once did I say that CGF was not doing enough for me. I just asked a simple question, no need to be *******s. What good is a "right" if you can't afford to exercise it? And to oni.dori, how about you mind your own business, and don't worry about what I do with MY money, jerk.

You are here, with all of your 117 posts, pissed off and calling everyone jerks because we don't agree with your priorties...

Take a look at the number of posts that agree or disagree with you. Not many are real supportive. The post above isn't a very good way to make friends and bring people around to your way of thinking.

Maybe you need to grow up before you worry about CCW....

Tier One Arms
03-26-2011, 5:38 PM
Jealousy, it's all it is. I asked a question, about fees, and whether there was anything being done to lower them. If you don't like my question, keep it to yourself, because I don't care. And do you really think that post count has anything to with this? Sorry I have a MBA to study for and don't have time to sit down on the internet all day and argue with people, racking up my post count.

blakdawg
03-26-2011, 5:38 PM
Chances are everyone who's posted in this thread would prefer to see everyone in the US able to exercise "constitutional carry" without permits or licensing - but we aren't going to get there in one big leap, or by just complaining.

There are plenty of rights that depend on having the means to exercise them - do you think we should also hand out free guns and ammo, because people with no funds also have a right to keep & bear arms, and if we don't give them guns and ammo they won't be able to exercise their rights?

We need to establish that carrying a gun is a constitutional right before we can attack the state's ability to regulate carrying with licensing and fees. Without that, the fee level is simply a policy/political argument, and right now you're lucky you can CCW at all given the current political climate in CA re guns.

HowardW56
03-26-2011, 5:44 PM
Jealousy, it's all it is. I asked a question, about fees, and whether there was anything being done to lower them. If you don't like my question, keep it to yourself, because I don't care. And do you really think that post count has anything to with this? Sorry I have a MBA to study for and don't have time to sit down on the internet all day and argue with people, racking up my post count.


Jealousy, what is there to be jealous of, maybe your piss poor attitude? I will admit to being a bit envious of your ability to obtain a CCW in Kern County, I am in Los Angeles County, we donít get that option.

This is an open forum, if you do not want responses that may disagree with you, donít post the question.

blakdawg
03-26-2011, 5:46 PM
Jealousy, it's all it is.
Actually, I suspect the problem is people don't appreciate your apparent sense of entitlement.
Sorry I have a MBA to study for ...
That explains a lot.

HowardW56
03-26-2011, 5:47 PM
Actually, I suspect the problem is people don't appreciate your apparent sense of entitlement.

That explains a lot.


It sure does...

nicki
03-26-2011, 7:05 PM
Yes the fees are on the high side, they are double most other states and when you figure the permits are good for only 2 years versus 4/5 of most other states, they are 4X what other states charge.

That being said, let's take a look at what a CCW represents.

We have alot of talk about our "rights", not so much talk about our "responsiblities" that go with carrying a gun.

IMHO, if you regularly carry a gun, you better be regularily practicing with it because if find yourself in a "bad situation", you may have less than 2seconds to defend yourself.

If you are slow and hesitate, you may be dead/seriously injured.
If you overreact, you may not be carried by 6, but you will be crucified by 12.

The only way to reduce your risks of either of the above scenarios is to regularly practice with your guns.

Regular practice to me means at least quarterly, prefer monthly, weekly ideally, daily best. Unfortunately many people shoot maybe once a year, if that.

I figure by the time you factor range fees, targets and ammo, your practice expenses will be at least 50 to 100 dollars per session.

For those of you who think this is "too much", if you are ever involved in a shooting, especially one where one of your rounds missed and hit an innocent bystander, your practice or lack of will come back and bite you.

Concealed carry is not a form of cheap self defense, but compared to the the 911 alternative, 1911 wins ands down.:43:

Nicki

707electrician
03-26-2011, 9:10 PM
Somehow you could afford the gun and all the related stuff so I think you can figure out a way to afford the CCW.

There are a lot of people on here that live counties that don't give permits but have donated hundreds of dollars to the CGF in order to get this right restored and this is possibly the reason you are complaining about high fees rather than complaining about not even being able to get a permit

N6ATF
03-26-2011, 10:12 PM
Somehow you could afford the gun and all the related stuff so I think you can figure out a way to afford the CCW

Unless the gun, holster, and possibly starter ammo were intrafamiliar transferred.