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View Full Version : Garands at local Gun Store.


PLINK
10-29-2006, 9:23 PM
I was at a local gun store today and seen that they have two Springfiled Garands. The guy at the shop said they were from CMP. I know nothing about Garands but really want one for some reason. He didn't know which grade they were but believes they are a service grade. The one thing I noticed right of the bat is that one has a hole on the end of the trigger guard and the other did not. The wood on both had dings in it but overall did not looked trashed. Hand guards seemed tights on both maybe a little wiggle. He said the date on one was a 1940 and the other is a 1951. He said you can see this by the last two digits on the barrel. The one with a 40 on the barrel had a 53664xx serial number and the one that had a 51 on the barrel had a 38050xx serial number (I think I have this right because I remembered thinking to myself, shouldn't the 40 have the lower serial number?). The muzzle on both had nicks on it and the park color appeared to be black that was worn in areas. The wood had a P mark on stock grip close to the trigger guard. He did say that he beleived the parts were not all SA. Anyway, the price is $749 each. Does this seam like an OK price?

Zwingli
10-29-2006, 9:37 PM
I just have one CMP garand. This is just the info I've picked up on the web. Black park probably = its been to Greece and back. Its almost assured to not be all matching SA. I would guess the barrel condition isn't "like new". I got my CMP Garand for less than 400. I don't know what they have left at the CMP but you'd be paying a big premium to be able to pick it out in person. The date on the Barrel doesn't mean anything in regards to date of receiver. Just means date of barrel. Need to do a search on serial # to get date of manufacture. A WWII dated barrel and receiver in good condition is worth more. Pre-WWII means even more--do some research on that 1940 one, may have something there. Or maybe its just a 1940 barrel stuck onto a reciever after the fact. Figure out manufacture of both barrel and rec, if they're very close, they might be orignial JMHO

PLINK
10-29-2006, 9:57 PM
Thanks. Come to think of it, do these rifles have other finishes? Maybe it was not a parkerized finish (rough texture) but more like a black (blued) smooth finish. Can a parkerized finish be smooth? Anyway, I was checking out the CMP requirements. Maybe I will do that instead. It just seems easier to buy one you seem in person even though it is more money. Do any of you happen to have a good link to check on these reciever numbers and to get more reference material from? TIA

Okami
10-29-2006, 11:59 PM
Here ya go Bro!

http://www.fulton-armory.com/tea/m1serial.htm

~Okami

NeoWeird
10-30-2006, 1:28 AM
As mentioned before the date on the barrel means JACK. Most of the rifles that are Greek/Danish returns have been gone over before they went out and many of them had new barrels put on. It doesn't matter really, as the receiver is the important part to look at, especially in California. Unless you were getting a KILLER deal (and I mean like $300) then it really isn't worth it to buy locally, not while the CMP still has them. After tax and DROS on a $300 rifle you would already be pushing the price of a CMP Garand, and I can all but guarantee they wanted more than $300 for the rifles. The side 'wiggle' is ok on a Garand becaues of it's design, the trigger guard pulls forward and the entire trigger housing and floor plate come out as a single piece. It's surprising how the rifle truely works, and I can tell you that the first time you take one apart you realize just how genius the design is (most of the parts have dual purposes and it all meshes together in a perfectly timed exchange of intertia and energy to make the rifle function).

If the receivers had a slightly greenish tint to them then there is a good chance they are original, if it's something else than you are probably looking at a refinished rifle. Nothing wrong with a refinished rifle, and if you are looking for a shooter all the better. Keep in mind that CMP guns are ALL gone over by a gunsmith and test fired to ensure proper function. They ARE shooters, and just came back from being put into service in another country. Most CMP guns now available are not treasured American weapons in the sense that they could go in a museum, but they are tried and true WWII era weapons and should be treated accordingly. If you do get one, be cautious of what modern ammo you use and a good portion of commercial ammo can damage the M1. The trigger guards variants is not a huge deal, the one with the 'hole' is a milled trigger guard and the straight guard is stamped. Early on most of the parts were milled, but as the war went on and production needed to become more effecient they moved as many parts over to stamping as they could. The trigger guard with the hole is most likely older, but that only applies to THAT part becuase most CMP garands are mix masters at best, and most will not have all parts from the same manufacturer, let alone having two parts with the same serial.

If you really want an M1, go the CMP route while you still can. They have enough to last until about the end of the year; after that you can expect to pay 2-3x their price instantly after them saying they sold out (just look at the 1903s). If you don't own an M1 than you should be in the process of getting one, or else you will be kicking yourself down the line. Trust me.

NRAhighpowershooter
10-30-2006, 8:19 AM
prices depend on throat erosin (TE) ands wuzzle wear (MW) from what I havew seen at some gun shops.. service grades go for $700+ and rack grades (usually worn barrels) got for $500+

With the CMP running out or out of Service Grades you might see more Garands at shops with the prices going up.. while I, myself wouldn't pay that much..(for a SG I would go as high as $675) I did pay $750 for a correct SG(with CMP papers)6 digit a few months ago.

VeryCoolCat
10-30-2006, 10:36 AM
This shop I go to had a practically mint springfield garand.

... for $1600

Sharpshooters in torrance sometimes has some neat high quality stuff that lots of stores don't. Just don't expect it to be affordable.

icormba
10-30-2006, 1:16 PM
if it helps...

The Greeks have been known to refinish their Garands with a bluing solution...
here's a sample:
http://www.m1garand.net/M1Pics/Chris/HRA_Greek_Rack.jpg


Here's a Sample of a USGI HRA (post war) with original finish:
http://www.m1garand.net/M1Pics/Chris/CMP_HRA_cleaned.jpg

chiefcrash
10-30-2006, 1:47 PM
keep in mind, there are some new-production M1 Garands put out by springfield in .308 and .30'06

of course, i've never seen one of those go for less than a thousand...

NeoWeird
10-30-2006, 3:12 PM
keep in mind, there are some new-production M1 Garands put out by springfield in .308 and .30'06

of course, i've never seen one of those go for less than a thousand...


From what I have heard those are even worse than the CMP garands. Someone was asying that the receivers are out of spec, and the parts are simply refinished Garand parts kits, but there wasn't a whole lot of attention given to the detail of them. Someone even said they were having a problem with the recoil spring binding and when they stripped the rifle down rust poured out of the op rod. :eek:

There are MUCH better options out there than an aftermarket reprodution, you know, like the real thing for 1/3 the price.

1911_sfca
10-30-2006, 4:12 PM
Just buy the real thing from CMP. That's what I did and I'm a happy camper. M1 Garand = Fun!! M1903 = Fun + Shoulder pain!!

chiefcrash
10-30-2006, 5:57 PM
From what I have heard those are even worse than the CMP garands. Someone was asying that the receivers are out of spec, and the parts are simply refinished Garand parts kits, but there wasn't a whole lot of attention given to the detail of them. Someone even said they were having a problem with the recoil spring binding and when they stripped the rifle down rust poured out of the op rod. :eek:

There are MUCH better options out there than an aftermarket reprodution, you know, like the real thing for 1/3 the price.

yea, i won't go near 'em either. just off the price alone, especially since CMP has some service grades in stock again...

Ubergeek
10-30-2006, 6:43 PM
From what I have heard those are even worse than the CMP garands. Someone was asying that the receivers are out of spec, and the parts are simply refinished Garand parts kits, but there wasn't a whole lot of attention given to the detail of them. Someone even said they were having a problem with the recoil spring binding and when they stripped the rifle down rust poured out of the op rod. :eek:

There are MUCH better options out there than an aftermarket reprodution, you know, like the real thing for 1/3 the price.

CMP Garands aren't bad - even the rackers are shootable.

IIRC, the receivers on the rifles sold by Springfield Armory (of Geneseo, Il) are made by a company in Australia (Lithgow). Here's what the folks at Fulton Armory have to say about them:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/Lithgow-TI.htm

NRAhighpowershooter
10-30-2006, 9:00 PM
That Fulton write up took place over 6 years ago and isn't valid for this current batch of M1 receivers..... since they AREN'T GI.. you can't go call them Garands... taint right!!!!!!! :D

FluorideInMyWater
10-30-2006, 10:07 PM
does a garand having CMP paper make it worth more? if so, why???

Zwingli
10-30-2006, 10:13 PM
Well, it might it might not, depends on who you're selling it to. Technically these aren't to be bought from CMP to be sold. They're to encourage marksmenship etc--raise funds for the CMP. So buying them and turning them around for a profit is well . . . . on the otherhand people do have to sell things for legitimate reasons. So it depends. Who are you buying it from and are they jacking up the price to make a big profit from someone who doesn't know about the CMP? My take anyway

Zwingli
10-30-2006, 10:17 PM
Oh and also, if you already have a C&R then all you have to do is join an organization 30$ or so to join the Garand collectors association will do. Other than that, just fill out and mail the forms. They take a HUGE!! break around X-mas time, so hurry up.

NeoWeird
10-31-2006, 12:54 AM
CMP Garands aren't bad - even the rackers are shootable.

I didn't mean that the CMP Garands are bad, I own two (Springfield and Winchester), but I haven't seen many that are show pieces. The CMP is the type of place that you would be proud to pick up a rifle for war from; they aren't pretty but you know they will function better than just about any other option out there. But for those people who nit pick about dents or scratchs, or non-matching numbers, or refinished rifles, etc than there is quite a few things to mention about CMP Garands. I personally own my firearms to shoot them and I love my CMP Garands, but if someone is considering paying the $1k+ price just to get parts that in like new condition, than chances are they will scoff at the condition of the CMP Garands (at least the ones currently available).

tteng
10-31-2006, 10:35 AM
As a single Garand owner, I probably have different perspective than multiple Garand owner such as NRAhighpower (who has a harem of them, from $$$collector piece to fine-tuned match shooter, and everything in between) about my Garand. Mine is a non-CMP Korean comeback ($450) w/ shot-out barrel. I spent $200 for a Fulton barrel and $70 for rebarreling, so for ~$750 I have a mismatch shooter capable of 3-in grp at 100yrd, good enough for me.

If you're buying only one Garand, I think you want it to be a shooter. If so, then borrow or beg for a TE & ME gauge (if not, do a muzzle/bullet test for tight muzzle) to ensure it's a accurate shooter.

If you want to become a Garand collector (means more than one Garand eventually), then All-matching is important. Just be prepare to shell out $700 for a non-shooter.

My 2C.