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barbasol
03-24-2011, 10:08 AM
Hey guys, I'm thinking about moving up to a larger caliber that can reach out farther than my ar15. I am looking at the DPMS SASS rifle or something similar. Maybe building one with a stainless fluted bull barrel and target crown. This will be my pig gun so weight is a bit of a concern but I would also like to start shooting more for distance.

My buddy just picked up Rem 700 Tactical. Will my prospective set up be able to keep up with a bolt gun? If not, how much will I be sacrificing in accuracy? Are we talking hair splitting?

Also, has anyone used rguns.net? Their DPMS uppers seem to have great prices!

http://www.rguns.net/rifles/rifles-semiauto-ar15-complete-308.shtml#DPMS-308-SASS

http://www.rguns.net/rifles/rifles-semiauto-ar15-uppers-308.shtml

Thanks all

NapaCountyShooter
03-24-2011, 10:11 AM
Your semi auto won't be able to keep up with a bolt gun unless you spend a LOT of money on it. You will probably be able to get an easy 1 to .75 moa rifle without spending too much, but getting down to the .5 and less that bolt guns can easily achieve will take some cash. If weight is a factor, maybe go with about a 20 inch barrel.

Jpach
03-24-2011, 10:17 AM
If weight is a factor, go with a 16" barrel. Its not like youre going to be shooting and winning 1K matches with your rifle. Ive shot out to 700-750 yards with success with my 16" LMT .308. Plus, you dont want a long barrel if you are going hunting.

.308 ARs are more than accurate enough and if you know how your loads perform out of your rifle (and if you learn how to correctly shoot a semi-auto), you should be able to hang right along side your buddy and his 700 for most practical ranges. Just have realistic expectations.

Ive held a SASS before and they are pretty heavy.

How much are you willing to spend on your rifle? This will help us help you.

barbasol
03-24-2011, 10:23 AM
I would like to stay well under $2,000 without optics and less is always better. My first thought was to buy this upper

http://www.cstactical.com/Bushnell/OPTICS/Range-Finders/Bushnell/DPMS-18-308-Bull-Barrel-Assembly.html?vmcchk=1

And then buy a lower to build myself. Add a PRS stock, buffer etc..

CK_32
03-24-2011, 10:35 AM
You will save a good amount of $$ just going with a bolt gun. A good $1000 or more... Semi autos can keep up but if you have to spend the same amount on both you will end up with a way better bolt action for sure...

But they can hang just expect to pay about double for the same performance accept it's in an AR platform

Rock6.3
03-24-2011, 10:52 AM
That is an interesting website, but they seem to lack any details about the uppers that they have for sale, for example there is no discussion of twist rates.

Jpach
03-24-2011, 11:28 AM
You can definitely build a nice shooter for less than 2K. I gata go to the gym right now but I will come back later with some part suggestions with a price breakdown. I should just make a thread on this because I do this so damn often lol

barbasol
03-24-2011, 11:38 AM
Thanks Jpach, that would be awesome. Anyone have thoughts on that DPMS upper I posted?

http://www.cstactical.com/Bushnell/OPTICS/Range-Finders/Bushnell/DPMS-18-308-Bull-Barrel-Assembly.html?vmcchk=1

Flesher
03-24-2011, 11:43 AM
That is an interesting website, but they seem to lack any details about the uppers that they have for sale, for example there is no discussion of twist rates.

# 18" Bull Barrel Contour
# Fluted barrel (FREE Upgrade $65.00)
# Vented Free Float tube
# A3 Upper Receiver (Free Upgrade $79.95)
# 4140 Chrome-Moly Steel
# Chambered in .308 Win.
# 1-10 Twist
# 7.25" Aluminum Free Float Tube
# Complete Phosphated Bolt Carrier Assembly Included
# Single Raised Rail Gas Block

Flesher
03-24-2011, 11:48 AM
Thanks Jpach, that would be awesome. Anyone have thoughts on that DPMS upper I posted?

http://www.cstactical.com/Bushnell/OPTICS/Range-Finders/Bushnell/DPMS-18-308-Bull-Barrel-Assembly.html?vmcchk=1

I think that thing is sexy! but then again i'm far from an expert. :)

CK_32
03-24-2011, 11:56 AM
That is an interesting website, but they seem to lack any details about the uppers that they have for sale, for example there is no discussion of twist rates.

If your talking about the CS tacical link they are good people. Have done business with them a few times. Mike seems like he knows his stuff.. Pretty trust able if you ask me..

Rock6.3
03-24-2011, 12:47 PM
# 18" Bull Barrel Contour
# Fluted barrel (FREE Upgrade $65.00)
# Vented Free Float tube
# A3 Upper Receiver (Free Upgrade $79.95)
# 4140 Chrome-Moly Steel
# Chambered in .308 Win.
# 1-10 Twist
# 7.25" Aluminum Free Float Tube
# Complete Phosphated Bolt Carrier Assembly Included
# Single Raised Rail Gas Block

Flesher, I'm not sure how you found that level of data, I cannot seem to find it on their 308 uppers in 24" with fluted barrels.

Coded-Dude
03-24-2011, 12:49 PM
there were two links posted. the links in the original post do not have info(rguns) the link to cstactical does have info....

barbasol
03-24-2011, 12:56 PM
It looks like Flesher pulled that data from the cstactical website. I couldn't find anything on the rguns.net sight either. I will post in the main forum to see if anyone has used them before. I was going to call and get details and order over the phone if I were to use them.

tanda10506
03-24-2011, 1:00 PM
Although AR10's with 16" and 18" barrels are still often very accurate, the shorter the barrel you have the harder it is to reach out far. A 20" Remington SPS tactical is only $550 and is very accurate, but still manageable to carry. If you want precision on distance shooting your barrel is going to be heavy and somewhat long which might not be what you want for hunting. Just my .02.

barbasol
03-24-2011, 1:06 PM
Right. I was looking at the fluted 18" Mainly for hunting. Would also like to use it for an introduction to distance shooting and buy a bolt gun specifically for that down the road

Harley
03-24-2011, 1:11 PM
Save up a few more bucks and get a Larue PredatAR in 7.62...u wont be disappointed...

Jpach
03-24-2011, 2:39 PM
Well, if you want to build your own I would suggest waiting for these receivers https://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2328279 for ~~$650

OR

Buy a Mega MA-TEN upper and lower set here http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2200
for--$592

LPK--$65
Barrel from Blackhole Weaponry ~$285
Gas block $50
Gas Tube $15
Rail.......Depends what you want
Muzzle device....same
DPMS Collapsible Buttstock Kit form Midway--$75 (I suggest buying this kit, then tossing the stock itself and replacing it with something like a Magpul ACS or something like that for $110 from DSG arms)

So you're looking at $1,082 + the cost of your rail/tube, muzzle device, and DROS/Transfer fee.

So right there you have what is essentially a custom upper built to YOUR spec and is likely a good deal cheaper than a mass produced DPMS SASS (for fricken $1300-$1400 just for the upper) type rifle.

Let me know what rail/rube and gas block setup you want and we can pretty much give you an exact price of how much you will spend.

PS

I still HIGHLY recommend getting a 16" barrel. I just about guaruntee that for your purposes, it will be more than enough. 16" barrels CAN do 1K+ yards for human sized targets.

EDIT: I forgot the BCG. $200-$250 should be about right for a complete BCG.

Rock6.3
03-24-2011, 2:45 PM
Well, if you want to build your own I would suggest waiting for these receivers https://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2328279 for ~~$650

OR

Buy a Mega MA-TEN upper and lower set here http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2200
for--$592

LPK--$65
Barrel from Blackhole Weaponry ~$285
Gas block $50
Gas Tube $15
Rail.......Depends what you want
Muzzle device....same
DPMS Collapsible Buttstock Kit form Midway--$75 (I suggest buying this kit, then tossing the stock itself and replacing it with something like a Magpul ACS or something like that for $110 from DSG arms)

So you're looking at $1,082 + the cost of your rail/tube, muzzle device, and DROS/Transfer fee.

So right there you have what is essentially a custom upper built to YOUR spec and is likely a good deal cheaper than a mass produced DPMS SASS (for fricken $1300-$1400 just for the upper) type rifle.

Let me know what rail/rube and gas block setup you want and we can pretty much give you an exact price of how much you will spend.

PS

I still HIGHLY recommend getting a 16" barrel. I just about guaruntee that for your purposes, it will be more than enough. 16" barrels CAN do 1K+ yards for human sized targets.

Interesting information, however I am participating in the group buy for the TM10 lowers, so I'm shopping for the upper in a 20" fluted barrel. Any suggestions?

Jpach
03-24-2011, 2:57 PM
How much are you willing to spend?

Blackhole Weaponry has been getting great reviews and they produce SS barrels for a pretty decent price. You might want to check them out.

If you want to drop some dough, order a barrel from Rock Creek. You will also need a barrel extension+pin and pay for it to get chambered, threaded, assembled, etc. This will cost more but it will definitely be a precise barrel.

I really think that the blackhole one should be fine though. I would imagine fluting would cost you extra though.

Do you absolutely need the fluting? What kind of shooting will you be doing?

Coded-Dude
03-24-2011, 2:59 PM
BHW also offer this: 308 Internally Railed Upper Receiver (Includes Bolt Carrier Group) for $380
http://www.blackholeweaponry.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=57&products_id=161

I just sent them an email asking what platform it works with(armalite or dpms)

Rock6.3
03-24-2011, 3:07 PM
BHW also offer this: 308 Internally Railed Upper Receiver (Includes Bolt Carrier Group) for $380
http://www.blackholeweaponry.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=57&products_id=161

I just sent them an email asking what platform it works with(armalite or dpms)

Zooming in on the image reveals a radiused rear corner, implying compatibility with the DPMS platform.

Rock6.3
03-24-2011, 3:09 PM
How much are you willing to spend?

Blackhole Weaponry has been getting great reviews and they produce SS barrels for a pretty decent price. You might want to check them out.

If you want to drop some dough, order a barrel from Rock Creek. You will also need a barrel extension+pin and pay for it to get chambered, threaded, assembled, etc. This will cost more but it will definitely be a precise barrel.

I really think that the blackhole one should be fine though. I would imagine fluting would cost you extra though.

Do you absolutely need the fluting? What kind of shooting will you be doing?


Fluting would be to help control the weight.
Shooting style: 3 position to 500 yards, plus bench long distance (600-900 yards)
Drop some dough? No, not unless it is pizza dough. Where possible I prefer to look for good deals that save money.

Hk996
03-24-2011, 3:09 PM
You really have to consider how much walking you will be doing when hunting... I bought my gapAR when I wanted a 308 for hunting thinking I could use that. But when I saw some of the terrain that my friends were hunting on, reality hit. My gun weigh's about 12-14lbs with a scope, and I don't think you can shave a lot of that off.

I turned around and bought a tikka lite when one popped up here and that gun weighs a little over 6lbs with a scope! So much better.

Now my AR has a 18" barrel (wasn't thinking of long range when I bought it... but it does fine out to 600yrds at angeles and I've hit steel at over 1000yrds (in wind) with it before. Was pretty satisfying since none of 308 bolts were able to hit it at that distance :-)

If I were to do it over again, I would probably get a 20" barrel so I have more velocity at the 1000 yrd range.

Coded-Dude
03-24-2011, 3:12 PM
Zooming in on the image reveals a radiused rear corner, implying compatibility with the DPMS platform.


thanks Rock. I am still undecided on my upper, but am leaning towards using BHW until TM can get theirs past stress testing and on the market(since i'll more than likely use a BHW barrel).

motorwerks
03-24-2011, 3:21 PM
So you're looking at $1,082 + the cost of your rail/tube, muzzle device, and DROS/Transfer fee.



I feel like you are missing something, I just cant figure out what it is. I'm at close to $1600 for my build and thats with a $240.00 lower, $100.00 used bare upper LPK that I had but needed the .308 stuff for so like $30.00 and an A2 stock that I bought used for like $30.00 before the buffer and spring. I also saved some money on the barrel because I bought it through a group buy. There are a couple .308 A2 flash hiders out that will save you a ton of money too. I also dont include shipping.

EDIT: got it BCG $200 to $350 I went with a Chrome DPMS that I got for $250 from Rainer.

mixicus
03-24-2011, 3:24 PM
OP, If this is to be for hunting pig, how do you hunt? Stalk or stand? What's the hike like? Reason is the semi auto gets heavy to lug about and to shoot off hand. A bolt gun weighs in the neighborhood of 8lbs w/o optics. A AR-10 type rifle is in the 11-12lbs range before optics.

Going to the bolt gun will give you an easy option to select a more appropriate caliber for big pigs (Russian boar) if that's your game. If you are after angry footballs (javalinea), 308 will be fine. It also would provide a platform to change calibers at a later date or customize for a different style of shooting.

Accuracy-wise I expect a 308 varimint or tactical type Remington 700 to be sub-3/4 MOA out of the box with Federal GM. I expect a match/'sniper' AR-10 to be sub-1MOA with the same class ammo. In the last 6 months I have shot 2 DPMS match 308's and 2 Remington 700 PSS's off bipods and they met expectations.

It's not that I'm against semi-auto match rilfes. I just like to fit my rifle to my primary need. From stomping around central CA after boar a few times, I prefer a bolt gun in a slightly larger caliber than 308 (I've used both 30-06 and 300H&H with Nosler bullet on top).

motorwerks
03-24-2011, 3:29 PM
I guess I should add I'm under 10lbs, I cant tell you exactly how far because all I have is a bathroom scale but I've stood on it now probably 24 times with and with out the gun and have never had a difference of more then 10lbs.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/motorwerks/Guns/IMG_4362.jpg

Jpach
03-24-2011, 3:34 PM
I feel like you are missing something, I just cant figure out what it is. I'm at close to $1600 for my build and thats with a $240.00 lower, $100.00 used bare upper LPK that I had but needed the .308 stuff for so like $30.00 and an A2 stock that I bought used for like $30.00 before the buffer and spring. I also saved some money on the barrel because I bought it through a group buy. There are a couple .308 A2 flash hiders out that will save you a ton of money too. I also dont include shipping.

EDIT: got it BCG $200 to $350 I went with a Chrome DPMS that I got for $250 from Rainer.

Youre a genius!

BCG!

Totally forgot, good call, my friend. Even I was thinking hmmm I think I'm forgetting something.

Jpach
03-24-2011, 3:36 PM
I guess I should add I'm under 10lbs, I cant tell you exactly how far because all I have is a bathroom scale but I've stood on it now probably 24 times with and with out the gun and have never had a difference of more then 10lbs.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/motorwerks/Guns/IMG_4362.jpg

Is that a troy TRX Xtreme? I wasnt aware that they made it for the .308. Niceeee

motorwerks
03-24-2011, 3:36 PM
glad I can help!

ZX-10R
03-24-2011, 4:45 PM
Remy M700 SPS is sub MOA out of the box at 100yrds. Quite a few magazines have gone over that and my experience with my buddy's M700 build confirms that...In regards to long distance...Go bolt action. Your AR serves you to 400yrds or less...Bolt action will serve you 100yrds (Ok shoots bolt action at 50yrds?) and beyond. A good set up is:

Remy M700 SPS $599
Millet LRS-1 - $379
Harris Bipod - $85
Mount - $80

Very CHEAP and Very ACCURATE.

Good luck.

Coded-Dude
03-24-2011, 4:51 PM
Is that a troy TRX Xtreme? I wasnt aware that they made it for the .308. Niceeee

http://troyind.com/%20/battlerails/troy-battlerail-trx-308-13-8

i believe its a newer product.

rg_1111@yahoo.com
03-24-2011, 5:09 PM
I would buy and upper that has a threaded barrel.

motorwerks
03-24-2011, 7:17 PM
Is that a troy TRX Xtreme? I wasnt aware that they made it for the .308. Niceeee

It sure is, I'm not exactly super happy about it ether. I was stoked but their customer service isn't great. I pulled the heli-coils out so I called, then sent an Email, that was over a week ago. Everything started out great then I cant get a damned shipping label to save my life. They said I would have close to a week ago so I hit the guy up yesterday and he said I would have it tonight. I had bought a couple longer allens and ny-lock backers so I could experiment and maybe shoot the damn thing, but tonight I gave in and blued the ny-locks so the didnt look so dumb I think I'll probably just live with it like this. It really sucks because I LOVE troy products, this is my 2nd rail and this gun has a troy gasblock and BUIS's. Oh well guess Ill live with it.

1stBorn
03-24-2011, 8:24 PM
Thanks Jpach, that would be awesome. Anyone have thoughts on that DPMS upper I posted?

http://www.cstactical.com/Bushnell/OPTICS/Range-Finders/Bushnell/DPMS-18-308-Bull-Barrel-Assembly.html?vmcchk=1


CSTactical is out of stock on these complete uppers.
I called last week about them

Said they wouldnt have anymore for a few months.

I am in the same boat - TM 308 group buy.