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Xanthus
03-23-2011, 12:46 PM
I'm planning on going to the range with a few of my buddy's guns. If I got pulled over and the LEO found out that I had guns, would there be a problem with it not being registered to me?

Can they even see the registered owner on a check?

paul0660
03-23-2011, 12:53 PM
In the case of long guns, they are not registered and cannot be checked by serial number at the roadside, unless they have been reported stolen.

Handguns may or may not be registered, depending on when they were last transferred. It is not illegal to possess a handgun registered to someone else, assuming that the handgun has been loaned to you and that you hold a HSC.

If the LEO "found out that you had guns", he has the authority to make sure that they are not loaded, but not to check serial numbers in any case. You are the protector of your constitutional rights, not him.

E Pluribus Unum
03-23-2011, 12:53 PM
Handguns are automatically registered when you buy them.

Long guns are never registered unless you voluntarily went down to the police station and did so.

NO law says one MUST register his guns. Even guns that were purchased or otherwise legally transferred before the 1991 law are not required to be registered.

There is some language in the PC regarding illegally concealed handguns. If it's registered to you, first offense is a misdemeanor. Not registered to you or 2nd+ offense means felony. Other than that, as far as I know, it doesn't matter.

C&Rtrader
03-23-2011, 12:55 PM
As long as you are not a prohibited person a friend can loan you a handgun for up to 30 days. hunting rifles can be for the duration of the hunting season.

I believe the LEO needs your consent to run the serial number anyway.

CSACANNONEER
03-23-2011, 12:55 PM
I legally own and transport many firearms (including handguns) which are not registered to me or anyone else. I don't quite understand your question. Do you think that all guns are "registered"?

dilligaffrn
03-23-2011, 1:37 PM
California Penal Code Section 12031

...(F) Where the person is not listed with the Department of Justice
pursuant to Section 11106, as the registered owner of the handgun, by
imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county
jail not to exceed one year, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand
dollars ($1,000), or both that fine and imprisonment.

but...

G) In all cases other than those specified in subparagraphs (A)
to (F), inclusive, as a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a
county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(3) For purposes of this section, "lawful possession of the
firearm" means that the person who has possession or custody of the
firearm either lawfully acquired and lawfully owns the firearm or has
the permission of the lawful owner or person who otherwise has
apparent authority to possess or have custody of the firearm. A
person who takes a firearm without the permission of the lawful owner
or without the permission of a person who has lawful custody of the
firearm does not have lawful possession of the firearm.

CA DOJ website says

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#25

26. How do I know if my firearms need to be registered?

There is no firearm registration requirement in California except for assault weapon owners and personal handgun importers. However, you may submit a Firearm Ownership Record to the DOJ for any firearm you own. Having a Firearm Ownership Record on file with the DOJ may help in the return of your firearm if it is lost or stolen. With very few and specific exceptions, all firearm transactions must be conducted through a firearms dealer.


From http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Time_Line_of_California_Firearms_Laws

"Required Sales Through Dealers, 1991

Prior to 1991, firearms sales could be private; after 1991, Penal Code 12070 required substantially all sales to use a California-licensed FFL dealer.

See also Buying and selling firearms in California."

So the question is... What Bill, Act or Law specifically articulates the change from no FFL required to needing an FFL for PPT, or is it that no law existed prior to 1991 had such a requirement?

Answer: AB 497

A.B.No. 497
FIREARMS—RECORDS OF DEALERS' SALES—PENALTIES
AN ACT to amend Sections 11106, 12001, 12021, 12070, 12071, 12072, 12073, 12076, 12077, 12078, and 12082 of, to amend the heading of Article 4 (commencing with Section 12070) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4 of, to add Section 12083 to, to repeal Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 12350) of Title 2 of Part 4 of, and to repeal Article 2 (commencing with Section 12560) of Chapter 6 of Title 2 of Part 4 of, the Penal Code, and to amend Sections 8100 and 8103 of, the Welfare and Institutions Code, relating to firearms.

7) Under existing law, when neither party to a transaction involving the sale, delivery, or transfer of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon a person holds a dealer's license, in order to effectuate that transaction, the transaction is required to be completed in either of the 2 following manners: (a) through a licensed dealer in accordance with a specified procedure, or (b) in accordance with specified conditions involving the sale of these firearms through private parties.

This bill would require all sales, deliveries, and transfers of all firearms to be completed through a licensed dealer in accordance with the existing procedure currently applicable only to the sale, delivery, or transfer of pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, except with respect to certain deliveries, sales, and transfers between importers and manufacturers licensed under federal law, certain infrequent transfers between immediate family members as defined, certain infrequent and temporary loans of firearms between persons who are personally known to each other, as described, deliveries of firearms to a gunsmith for repair, as provided, and certain transactions involving auctions conducted by nonprofit mutual or public benefit corporations. Because a violation of these provisions is a misdemeanor, this bill would constitute a state-mandated local program by expanding the scope of an existing crime.

(8) Existing law makes it a misdemeanor for any person engaged in the business of selling pistols at retail to fail to keep a specified register regarding sales of pistols.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12078.html...

CPC 12078

"(d) (1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the
infrequent loan of firearms between persons who are personally known
to each other for any lawful purpose, if the loan does not exceed 30
days in duration and, when the firearm is a handgun, commencing
January 1, 2003, the individual being loaned the handgun has a valid
handgun safety certificate."...


All of the above is just what I read, not legal advise.

SO it is clear as mud....you need a lawyer to translate, LOL!

AND I am not one of those! (but I do let them buy me lunch!)

Coded-Dude
03-23-2011, 1:41 PM
As long as you are not a prohibited person a friend can loan you a handgun for up to 30 days. hunting rifles can be for the duration of the hunting season.

I believe the LEO needs your consent to run the serial number anyway.

^this

Librarian
03-23-2011, 1:52 PM
no law existed prior to 1991 had such a requirement


This.

Xanthus
03-23-2011, 7:00 PM
I completely agree on the issue about not giving consent for a LEO to run the serial numbers.

Some people might have been confused by the context of my question. I just wanted to know the legality of borrowing handguns. I am a gun owner and have nothing preventing me from owning or buying guns. I just wanted to get a better understanding of borrowing other people's guns so I don't run into any trouble.

Anyways you guys provided more then enough info.

dilligaffrn
03-24-2011, 10:21 AM
My post was just to show how screwed up CA law is when it comes to "simple" questions.