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View Full Version : SB 819 (2011) Leno


Librarian
03-22-2011, 9:54 PM
Bill change: SB 809 (2011) Leno (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=sb_819&sess=CUR&house=B&author=leno)
was about 'crime'
now about 'use of DROS fees'

BUT here's the key: (b) The fee under subdivision (a) shall be no more than is
necessary to fund the following:
...
(11) The department for the costs associated with funding
Department of Justice firearms-related regulatory and enforcement
activities related to the sale, purchase, possession,
loan, or transfer of firearms pursuant to any provision listed in
Section 16580.
Just that one word is added - but someone seems to want to muck with 12026 protections. (25605 (b) in new numbering: (b) No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29800) or Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 29900) of Division 9 of this title, or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed, a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person within the citizen’s or legal resident’s place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident.

Gray Peterson
03-22-2011, 10:07 PM
Bill change: SB 809 (2011) Leno (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=sb_819&sess=CUR&house=B&author=leno)
was about 'crime'
now about 'use of DROS fees'

BUT here's the key:Just that one word is added - but someone seems to want to muck with 12026 protections. (25605 (b) in new numbering:

They added "Legal Resident" to the list rather than just citizen?

Librarian
03-22-2011, 10:17 PM
They added "Legal Resident" to the list rather than just citizen?

No, that's existing law, and not part of the bill here. The totality of the change of the bill is adding the word 'possession' to 28225 (b)(11).

I included 26505 as an example of what kind of 'possession' might be in the mind of Mr Leno.

Remember, he's from SF, as is our new AG, and SF has long wanted to regulate firearms possession but has been shot down.

wildhawker
03-22-2011, 10:21 PM
If I had a large amount of misappropriated and commingled funds secured through unconstitutional means, "possession" would give some room to build out my enforcement budget to burn the reserves...

safewaysecurity
03-22-2011, 10:23 PM
So. What does this do? I don't understand.

Window_Seat
03-22-2011, 10:48 PM
↓↓↓So. What does this do? I don't understand.↑↑↑

safewaysecurity
03-22-2011, 11:08 PM
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop? :D

Librarian
03-22-2011, 11:09 PM
So. What does this do? I don't understand.

Me neither.

Given it's from Leno, very likely it's nothing good.

anthonyca
03-22-2011, 11:32 PM
Me neither.

Given it's from Leno, very likely it's nothing good.

That's about all I came up with also.

Another example of why we need a part time legislature. They do almost all harm and almost no good.

cdtx2001
03-23-2011, 1:46 AM
So. What does this do? I don't understand.

Same here, what does this do to anyone in possession of...??? Does this mean that anyone in possession of something will now be on a list and a criminal of an amended law or something?

joe_sun
03-23-2011, 5:38 AM
If I had a large amount of misappropriated and commingled funds secured through unconstitutional means, "possession" would give some room to build out my enforcement budget to burn the reserves...

This is my take as well. Currently there's a large surplus in the DROS fund so they want to move that money to enforcement instead.

Also with enforcement in the mix they are free to jack up DROS costs saying the DOJ needs more funding. Anything Leno touches is NOT good for firearms owners.

1JimMarch
03-23-2011, 5:43 AM
Meh. I smell a particular unwashed body involved here. Irwin Nowick. This is absolutely his style. Change one word, looks harmless, interacts in weird ways with the rest of the penal code. Grrr. One complicated bizarre dude, pens 3/4ths of the anti-gun legislation in Cali year after year. IQ is off the charts but has the "street smarts" of a syphalitic gerbil on qualuudes.

SanPedroShooter
03-23-2011, 7:11 AM
So by adding the word possession they could use DROS monies to fund DOJ LE activities relating to any type of gun usage by anybody? I think I see where this is going. There are a whole host of programs relating to possession of guns by everybody from criminals to cops to you and me...

ThortheDog
03-23-2011, 7:35 AM
Would this be the first step in laying groundwork for building a state registry of firearm ownership?

taperxz
03-23-2011, 7:44 AM
Perhaps, the point is to be able to better fund BOF at the AGs discretion. She gets into office, sees no way to get funding for that dept. She gets Leno to do this so they can use gun owner TAXES on possession to be able to fight gun owners. It seems it could at least open the door to their idea.

sacto929
03-23-2011, 7:54 AM
It may be a budgetary money shuffling scheme. Change the word to allow money in "possession" to be used to fund enforcement, then they can absorb cuts to LE budgets from the General Fund. The next step will be to increase DROS fees to backfill the hole. They will then increase the DROS fees until they price most people out of being able to purchase guns in CA.

Just my cynical $0.02....

Gray Peterson
03-23-2011, 8:02 AM
Submits Letter to DOJ on Proposed DROS Fee Reduction, Requests Audit of DOJ BoF (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=342783)

So, this is pretty awesome. That means they can burn their surplus going after paper violations of law rather than gang bangers. :mad:

Crom
03-23-2011, 8:12 AM
If I had a large amount of misappropriated and commingled funds secured through unconstitutional means, "possession" would give some room to build out my enforcement budget to burn the reserves...

^This.

It would appear that this is about money and the AG's office want's to spend the reserves in the DROS fund. DROS fees are supposed to fund the activities related to the purchase / sale and record keeping of firearms. There has been a surplus in the fund indicating that the fees have been set too high. Now they want to change the law to spend it and probably keep the fees as high as possible.

LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST


SB 819, as amended, Leno. Crimes: eyewitness
identification. Firearms.
Existing law authorizes the Department of Justice to require a
firearms dealer to charge each firearm purchaser a fee, as specified,
to fund various specified costs in connection with, among other
things, a background check of the purchaser, and to fund the costs
associated with the department's firearms-related regulatory and
enforcement activities related to the sale, purchase, loan, or
transfer of firearms.
This bill would also authorize using those charges to fund the
department's firearms-related regulatory and enforcement activities
related to the possession of firearms, as specified.
Existing law requires the Attorney General to keep various
identifying information on file of persons confined to penal
institutions including fingerprints, measurements, and criminal
histories.
This bill would state that it is the intent of the Legislature to
later amend into this bill provisions that would require law
enforcement to study and consider new policies to ensure proper
eyewitness identification procedures.

taperxz
03-23-2011, 8:20 AM
I THINK I also see a door trying to open on possession fees/taxes. Why else would they add the word "possession"

bluerider
03-23-2011, 8:33 AM
Just a WAG here but I could envision the DOJ using the new language to establish a grant program for law enforcement agencies to submit proposals fornew program to enforce illegal gun possesion among street gangs. Once the excess dros fees are used up, higher dros fees would be used to fund continued law enforcement. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

goober
03-23-2011, 8:36 AM
Tried to reply in the thread Gray linked (the one about the letter submitted to DoJ asking for DROS transparency), to give it a bump and thank Brandon for his efforts, but was unable to do so as it is more than 187 days old (lame rule, IMO... I suppose it keeps necro posts from re-animating in some cases, but that's not always a good thing...)

so anyway,


THANKS BRANDON! :cheers2:


Submits Letter to DOJ on Proposed DROS Fee Reduction, Requests Audit of DOJ BoF (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=342783)

So, this is pretty awesome. That means they can burn their surplus going after paper violations of law rather than gang bangers. :mad:

Crom
03-23-2011, 8:43 AM
Tried to reply in the thread Gray linked (the one about the letter submitted to DoJ asking for DROS transparency), to give it a bump and thank Brandon for his efforts, but was unable to do so as it is more than 187 days old (lame rule, IMO... I suppose it keeps necro posts from re-animating in some cases, but that's not always a good thing...)

so anyway,


THANKS BRANDON! :cheers2:

You can still bump the thread. Just check that little box that says "I am aware that this Thread is rather old but I still want to make a reply."

goober
03-23-2011, 8:45 AM
You can still bump the thread. Just check that little box that says "I am aware that this Thread is rather old but I still want to make a reply."

ooooooo...
missed that :o
done.
thanks!

Doug L
03-23-2011, 8:47 AM
...Another example of why we need a part time legislature. They do almost all harm and almost no good.

A-men, brother!

Paul S
03-23-2011, 8:59 AM
Meh. I smell a particular unwashed body involved here. Irwin Nowick. This is absolutely his style. Change one word, looks harmless, interacts in weird ways with the rest of the penal code. Grrr. One complicated bizarre dude, pens 3/4ths of the anti-gun legislation in Cali year after year. IQ is off the charts but has the "street smarts" of a syphalitic gerbil on qualuudes.

That sir, is simply an OUTSTANDING statement. It paints such a marvelous picture. :cool:

wildhawker
03-23-2011, 11:55 AM
Meh. I smell a particular unwashed body involved here. Irwin Nowick. This is absolutely his style. Change one word, looks harmless, interacts in weird ways with the rest of the penal code. Grrr. One complicated bizarre dude, pens 3/4ths of the anti-gun legislation in Cali year after year. IQ is off the charts but has the "street smarts" of a syphalitic gerbil on qualuudes.

I think you're right.

darkwater
08-29-2011, 1:48 PM
SB 819 passed the Assembly...on to the Governor...

OleCuss
08-29-2011, 2:09 PM
Yeah, I'm with those who smell rats - and believe that this is meant to spend DROS money in ridiculous ways.

I suspect they believe that they'll be able to use DROS funds for everything from long-gun registration to funding prosecution of most any crime which in which there was possession of a firearm.

Nasty. Not at all happy that this has advanced.

taperxz
08-29-2011, 2:17 PM
Yeah, I'm with those who smell rats - and believe that this is meant to spend DROS money in ridiculous ways.

I suspect they believe that they'll be able to use DROS funds for everything from long-gun registration to funding prosecution of most any crime which in which there was possession of a firearm.

Nasty. Not at all happy that this has advanced.

Ridiculous Ways? Maybe! How about using the money to fight gun owners and there rights in court?

Now we are going to pay for both plaintiff and defendant with other than just general fund money.

Wherryj
08-29-2011, 2:18 PM
[/COLOR]

That sir, is simply an OUTSTANDING statement. It paints such a marvelous picture. :cool:

While it is rather witty and comical, it is a rather offensive statement to gerbils everywhere. ;)

taperxz
08-29-2011, 2:20 PM
One thing for sure though, if JB vetoes this it will be a notable line in sand!

BigDogatPlay
08-30-2011, 2:10 PM
Sent the following to the Governor this afternoon...

Dear Governor Brown,

I write to you to express my opposition to Senate Bill 819, which was voted out of the Legislature and will soon be on your desk.

This bill seeks to divert surplus monies, above the cost of administration, collected under the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) of firearms. As you may know the costs of administering the service, which is mandated for all lawful transfers of firearms in California, have decreased over time and the program is currently running surpluses. This bill seeks to divert those excess funds to other uses, rather than roll back the fee amount charged to consumers.

This bill represents an unfair penalty against law abiding citizens who seek to lawfully purchase a firearm. There is no reason why the state should charge a higher fee than what supports the cost of the program itself, and then divert the excess funds to other uses completely unrelated to DROS or firearms ownership or education. It should be noted that law abiding gun owners and hunters have long supported conservation, resource management and education programs across the state and the nation through excise taxes on firearms and ammunition. And let it be clear I am not asking you to end the DROS program or the fee itself, but rather I ask that you not stand for a diversion of funds collected to other purposes.

I strongly urge you to veto this unfair money grab at your earliest opportunity.

Thank you for your consideration.

XXXXX XXXXX
XXXXXXXXX, CA

CycloSteve
08-30-2011, 2:35 PM
Just received the NRA ILA note...contacted JB via the embedded link. Will see shortly how he stands on the diversion of funds.

It is important that you CALL and E-MAIL Governor Jerry Brown TODAY and urge him to VETO SB 819. California is drowning in red ink and they want to use the surplus funds paid by law-abiding gun owners to pay for unrelated extra expenses. Contact information for the Governor can be found here (http://www.nramedia.org/t/187045/4555967/6751/0/).

exklusve
08-30-2011, 2:44 PM
emailed.

aklover_91
08-30-2011, 2:49 PM
has the "street smarts" of a syphalitic gerbil on qualuudes.

That, sir, is preposterous.

They haven't made 'ludes in years. :D

Norsemen308
08-30-2011, 3:02 PM
DUDE BAIT AND SWITCH OUR GOVERNORS NAME IS EDMUND NOT JERRY WTF???


btw... email sent to brown stain... he will sign it, he believes in getting money any which way from California's, this is like a 2nd christmas for this clown.... I am sweeting the long gun registration.... PLEASE GOD NOOOOOOO

woodsman
08-30-2011, 3:03 PM
Sent.

Fingers crossed.

donw
08-30-2011, 3:22 PM
i don't understand it either...if SB819 goes into law, does that mean IF you own guns, legally, already, you will be required to pay an addition DROS fee/tax/penalty?

in other words, "RE"-register? or 'register' if they have no record of them?

donw
08-30-2011, 3:26 PM
i don't understand it either...if SB819 goes into law, does that mean IF you own guns, legally, already, you will be required to pay an addition DROS fee/tax/penalty?

in other words, "RE"-register? or 'register' if they have no record of them?

Swatter911
08-30-2011, 3:26 PM
Emailed.

Super Spy
08-30-2011, 3:41 PM
Meh. I smell a particular unwashed body involved here. Irwin Nowick. This is absolutely his style. Change one word, looks harmless, interacts in weird ways with the rest of the penal code. Grrr. One complicated bizarre dude, pens 3/4ths of the anti-gun legislation in Cali year after year. IQ is off the charts but has the "street smarts" of a syphalitic gerbil on qualuudes.

I think I found some new sig material here

wjc
08-30-2011, 4:06 PM
Sent an email to the Governor urging him to veto it...not that it'll do any good.

I'm hoping mine is one of a million emails Moonbeam gets regarding this issue.

Kona Jon
08-30-2011, 4:35 PM
Emailed as well, I'm in Sac so PM when we as 2A gun enthusiasts decide to picket...

NotEnufGarage
08-30-2011, 5:13 PM
Emailed as well, I'm in Sac so PM when we as 2A gun enthusiasts decide to picket...

Ditto

Mike61982
08-30-2011, 9:46 PM
I just tried to call and leave a meassage but hes not taking meassages at this time/ The reason is no one is in his office. Man this suck :eek::chris:

Cnynrat
08-31-2011, 4:38 PM
Emailed the Governor today. Hoping for the best ....