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View Full Version : Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989 and .50 Caliber BMG Reg Act of 2004


shocknm
03-22-2011, 8:09 PM
I need a history lesson.

Both acts required the specified firearms (1989 by name and 2004 by caliber, respectively) to be registered with the state and prohibited the sale of any specified firearm after the bans went into effect.
The laws specifically allowed a registration period of one year, for owners to register any such firearms, after which unregistered weapons would become illegal firearms.

From what I've gleaned in reading through the 2A forum, the CA DOJ somehow obtained a 'list' of all owners of these specified firearms and mailed notices of the ban and registration requirements.

Do I have that right ?
If so, how did the CA DOJ get the owners' names ?

All this speculation of the ATF declaring the Saiga 12 a destructive device and banning further import got me thinking about this.

If they do, they'll get a list too to send out some kind of 'notice' right?

G60
03-22-2011, 8:14 PM
I don't think any notice was sent out. If you were out of the loop, you were screwed.

Librarian
03-22-2011, 8:46 PM
I don't believe they got such a list - DROS for long guns was the same than as now, and also people moving into the state were not then and are not now required to register long guns.

The information simply was not and is not now available.

The DOJ was supposed to create and execute an education campaign. PC 12289 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12289.html) (a) The Department of Justice shall conduct a public
education and notification program regarding the registration of
assault weapons and the definition of the weapons set forth in
Section 12276.1. The public education and notification program shall
include outreach to local law enforcement agencies and utilization of
public service announcements in a variety of media approaches, to
ensure maximum publicity of the limited forgiveness period of the
registration requirement specified in subdivision (f) of Section
12285 and the consequences of nonregistration. The department shall
develop posters describing gunowners' responsibilities under this
chapter which shall be posted in a conspicuous place in every
licensed gun store in the state during the forgiveness period. For .
50 BMG rifles, the department's education campaign shall provide
materials to dealers of .50 BMG rifles, and to recognized national
associations that specialize in .50 BMG rifles.
(b) Any costs incurred by the Department of Justice to implement
this section which cannot be absorbed by the department shall be
funded from the Dealers' Record of Sale Special Account, as set forth
in subdivision (d) of Section 12076, upon appropriation by the
Legislature.
I don't believe that was a very successful campaign ...

bubbapug1
03-22-2011, 8:53 PM
I don't believe they wanted to spread the word. I never heard about the ban until I signed onto calguns

Crom
03-22-2011, 10:03 PM
I need a history lesson.

Both acts required the specified firearms (1989 by name and 2004 by caliber, respectively) to be registered with the state and prohibited the sale of any specified firearm after the bans went into effect.
The laws specifically allowed a registration period of one year, for owners to register any such firearms, after which unregistered weapons would become illegal firearms.

From what I've gleaned in reading through the 2A forum, the CA DOJ somehow obtained a 'list' of all owners of these specified firearms and mailed notices of the ban and registration requirements.

Do I have that right ?
If so, how did the CA DOJ get the owners' names ?

All this speculation of the ATF declaring the Saiga 12 a destructive device and banning further import got me thinking about this.

If they do, they'll get a list too to send out some kind of 'notice' right?

The CA DOJ had no idea who owned what long guns so it would have been impossible for them to notify the owners. By law the DOJ destroys long gun DROS; IIRC, within 5 days after receipt.

For a nice write up on the history of the CA AWCA check this out here: The AWCA (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/History_of_%27Assault_Weapon%27_laws#The_AWCA)

Regarding the ATF's form 4473. From the reports I have read the forms are only used to trace guns that are used in crimes.

Jaxpire
03-23-2011, 1:42 AM
They did send out notices to owners of Chinese Norinco SKS. I know this because I got one of the postcard stating I might need to turn in my rifle. I forget the exact year, I think it was around 98-99?

Falconis
03-23-2011, 2:27 AM
They did send out notices to owners of Chinese Norinco SKS. I know this because I got one of the postcard stating I might need to turn in my rifle. I forget the exact year, I think it was around 98-99?

They did send out that notice because my friend still *****es about that and Lockyer to this day about it. Well ok, he *****es about a lot more stuff too, but those 2 are related to each other.

Jaxpire
03-23-2011, 7:50 AM
They did send out that notice because my friend still *****es about that and Lockyer to this day about it. Well ok, he *****es about a lot more stuff too, but those 2 are related to each other.

I think your friend has the right to ***** since it was a notice of confiscation not registration. It's what the other side wants in the long run. Never put it past them to do it any way they can.

jeff762
03-23-2011, 8:03 AM
They did send out notices to owners of Chinese Norinco SKS. I know this because I got one of the postcard stating I might need to turn in my rifle. I forget the exact year, I think it was around 98-99?

did you initally register it as an assault weapon? if so that is why you got the notice iirc. i believe that's what the whole gripe was about, people regirstering their assault weapon in good faith and then being told to turn it in or remove it from the state.

Jaxpire
03-23-2011, 8:08 AM
No it was not registered as an AW, it is fixed mag so it did not have to be.

jeff762
03-23-2011, 9:51 AM
They did send out notices to owners of Chinese Norinco SKS. I know this because I got one of the postcard stating I might need to turn in my rifle. I forget the exact year, I think it was around 98-99?

No it was not registered as an AW, it is fixed mag so it did not have to be.



that's odd. iirc it was the sks-d and sks-m that had detachable mags that the owners had to get rid of.

JSilvoso
03-23-2011, 10:13 AM
From what I've gleaned in reading through the 2A forum, the CA DOJ somehow obtained a 'list' of all owners of these specified firearms and mailed notices of the ban and registration requirements.

Do I have that right ?


No, you do not. No notice was sent.

I'm sure thousands of people possess unregisted "assault weapons" and ".50 BMG rifles" and don't know they are commiting a felony in California.

Fate
03-23-2011, 11:07 AM
No, you do not. No notice was sent.

I'm sure thousands of people possess unregisted "assault weapons" and ".50 BMG rifles" and don't know they are commiting a felony in California.

+1. That's quite true.

There are also many who knowingly ignored the passage of the law and don't care. I'm not one of them, but I know a few who never registered nor ever intended to comply (mostly because of what happened with the SKSes as mentioned below).
i believe that's what the whole gripe was about, people regirstering their assault weapon in good faith and then being told to turn it in or remove it from the state.

Write Winger
03-23-2011, 11:14 AM
The confiscation of SKSs is what led so many to ignore the registration if their rifles, and just hide them in a safe or send them to out of state relatives. The fact that those registered haven't been confiscated is actually a huge surprise to me.

Do you think the lack of "public education" of the laws can be a fighting point in court to overrule the bans?

Write Winger
03-23-2011, 11:17 AM
Beat me to it lol

bwiese
03-23-2011, 1:56 PM
The confiscation of SKSs is what led so many to ignore the registration if their rifles, and just hide them in a safe or send them to out of state relatives. The fact that those registered haven't been confiscated is actually a huge surprise to me.

The reason SKSes w/DMs that were registered as AWs weren't confiscated was simply because they were properly registered per law in 1989-1990 or a second catchup reg period in 1992.

The CA AW law structure existed to *avoid* confiscation.

bwiese
03-23-2011, 2:01 PM
They did send out notices to owners of Chinese Norinco SKS. I know this because I got one of the postcard stating I might need to turn in my rifle. I forget the exact year, I think it was around 98-99?

That was during/after the "SKS cleanup" (1228xPC??) fixup legislation. The one problem brand was probably traceable thru 4473s or something - perhaps they asked the ATF to do traces, I'm not sure.

Falconis
03-23-2011, 2:10 PM
I think your friend has the right to ***** since it was a notice of confiscation not registration. It's what the other side wants in the long run. Never put it past them to do it any way they can.

I think he does too. I usually ***** right alongside him.

Ubermcoupe
03-23-2011, 2:22 PM
All this speculation of the ATF declaring the Saiga 12 a destructive device and banning further import got me thinking about this.

If they do, they'll get a list too to send out some kind of 'notice' right?


If the ATF declares this a DD, it is my understanding that one would have to acquire the necessary tax stamp to posses said device.

Even if you were sent a notice by the ATF, according to CA DOJ it would still be illegal unless you met certain criteria (LEO, Manufacturer, etc).

Heatseeker
04-13-2011, 12:38 PM
Is there a way to confirm that an AW was registered? I have an elderly acquaintance that cannot produce any paper work, but seems to remember that he reg'd his HK93 back in 2000-2001.

Any input is appreciated.

Rekrab
04-13-2011, 12:46 PM
No, you do not. No notice was sent.

I'm sure thousands of people possess unregisted "assault weapons" and ".50 BMG rifles" and don't know they are commiting a felony in California.

If my experience working the CalGuns booth is any indicator, I'm sure "thousands" is a low ball estimate.

mag360
04-13-2011, 12:49 PM
they have no idea who buys a saiga, ar 10, ar15, or any long gun. The form says long gun, and then the # of long guns you're transferring. No serial #.

bwiese
04-13-2011, 12:52 PM
I need a history lesson.
Both acts required the specified firearms (1989 by name and 2004 by caliber, respectively) to be registered with the state

Almost, not quite...

1989: (reg period ended 12/31/90, catchup period in '92) - named guns.
2000: SB23 "by features" guns
2004: 50BMG rifles



and prohibited the sale of any specified firearm after the bans went into effect.

Did not completely prohibit, there are transfers possible thru CA FFLs w/AW permits - for example, if you wanna sell your AW outside CA.

The laws specifically allowed a registration period of one year, for owners to register any such firearms, after which unregistered weapons would become illegal firearms.

Yes. Fine detail: AR/AK "series" reg period was extended to Jan 23 2001 due to a problem in publishing at Sec. State's office. The Kasler 90 day window for AR/AK series guns was supposed to just overlap the last quarter of the SB23 registration period.

From what I've gleaned in reading through the 2A forum, the CA DOJ somehow obtained a 'list' of all owners of these specified firearms and mailed notices of the ban and registration requirements.

No. They would not know who owns such guns since rifles are not "registered" when boiught in CA. They would only have incidental information if finding a particular item when auditing a CA FFL's books.

I have heard an urban legend (unverified) but believable that some notice or pamphlet was sent to existing Roberti-Roos AW registrants around 2000 - perhaps they figured an owner of a named AW probably had some 'by features' AWs too. I have no proof of this, however.


All this speculation of the ATF declaring the Saiga 12 a destructive device and banning further import got me thinking about this.

If they do, they'll get a list too to send out some kind of 'notice' right?

If a gun is Federally declared a DD, there will be a special NFA period for them, just like they did for Streetsweeper (and Striker12?) guns. I believe a DD form would have to be submitted to DOJ as well.

The Feds would likely not notify individuals individually - they don't have any information. On rare very low volume guns in theory they could do a forward trace to owner from mfgr.

I do not believe there will be more forward motion on the so-called Saiga issue. ATF is pretty busy defending itself on the "let's have the ATF supply Mexico with guns and forget to follow up", and the Obama admin doesn't wanna touch the gun issue at all given elections coming up, seats need to be maintained, etc.

CAL.BAR
04-13-2011, 3:09 PM
Is there a way to confirm that an AW was registered? I have an elderly acquaintance that cannot produce any paper work, but seems to remember that he reg'd his HK93 back in 2000-2001.

Any input is appreciated.


If he registered an HK 93 in 2000-2001 - HE's SCREWED! b/c the HK 93 was banned by name a DECADE earlier under the Roberti-Roose act. He only had a year or so to register that one.

bwiese
04-13-2011, 4:01 PM
If he registered an HK 93 in 2000-2001 - HE's SCREWED! b/c the HK 93 was banned by name a DECADE earlier under the Roberti-Roose act. He only had a year or so to register that one.

Legally correct.

However, it would not surprise me if the DOJ data entry clerks actually did register it as SB23 gun. Data entry validation in the AW registry was poor, it was rushed and the people doing the entry often would not know.

Heatseeker
04-14-2011, 6:10 AM
So, is there any way to confirm reg?

He says he recalls some kind of mail notification at some point. And at that time, he says he thinks he "mailed in some form". It could have easily been in the 90's. This fella is starting to show serious signs of CRS(can't remember squat).

I would hate to see the old guy get his tail in a sling over this...

SteveH
04-14-2011, 10:16 AM
Posters were displayed in gun stores, police station lobbies, Marine barracks common areas, target ranges, ect.

I remember first reading about the registration requirements on the bulletin board outside the duty NCO hut at Las Pulgas. Later saw the flyers at various gun stores.

Beelzy
04-14-2011, 11:21 AM
So, is there any way to confirm reg?

He says he recalls some kind of mail notification at some point. And at that time, he says he thinks he "mailed in some form". It could have easily been in the 90's. This fella is starting to show serious signs of CRS(can't remember squat).

I would hate to see the old guy get his tail in a sling over this...

Hmm, the DOJ sent 3 letters of "Confirmation of AW Registration" and one "This is your Proof" letter. Couple that with the Mandatory Fingerprinting,
I would think even a Pot smoker would remember. :D

Heatseeker
04-14-2011, 12:58 PM
Hmm, the DOJ sent 3 letters of "Confirmation of AW Registration" and one "This is your Proof" letter. Couple that with the Mandatory Fingerprinting,
I would think even a Pot smoker would remember. :D

The fella is over 70 and survived a nasty divorce several years years back. He say's the ex just emptied all the file cabinets into paper bags when she left. Hence no paperwork to refer to.

Soo, is there or is there not a method to check for registration???

Jim_KT
04-14-2011, 3:11 PM
For those that registered their firearms as AWs, and lost the original confirmation notice, there is one method that I am aware of on requesting that information. Please refer to the following post:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=5913911&postcount=15

BoxesOfLiberty
04-14-2011, 3:31 PM
I don't think any notice was sent out. If you were out of the loop, you were screwed.

I never got a notice.

I learned of Roberti-Roos (and susequently registered some rifles) when I saw a sign posted at a local shop.

BoxesOfLiberty
04-14-2011, 3:59 PM
That was during/after the "SKS cleanup" (1228xPC??) fixup legislation. The one problem brand was probably traceable thru 4473s or something - perhaps they asked the ATF to do traces, I'm not sure.

They sold a lot of PVC pipe and desicant gel packs.

Heatseeker
04-14-2011, 6:39 PM
For those that registered their firearms as AWs, and lost the original confirmation notice, there is one method that I am aware of on requesting that information. Please refer to the following post:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=5913911&postcount=15
Thanks!