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View Full Version : Laws re: shooting vehicle-mounted firearms?


Cpl. Haas
03-21-2011, 12:50 PM
The topic of firing a turret-mounted firearm from a vehicle came up briefly in the off-topic forum a while back, but I wanted to post here and try to get some more knowledgeable info...

I own an M1026 Humvee that has a gun turret and Mk 23 pintle for an M2 .50 cal. I wanted to put out a offer to any Calgunner with a legal semi-auto (or NFA registered full-auto) M2HB to come fire their .50 from a Humvee... but before I do, I want to figure out if there are any laws specifically prohibiting such activity. I've heard of DFG regs prohibiting firing from a roadway or vehicle... but that seems to be geared toward poaching.

If I had the Humvee, parked with the ignition off, in a designated shooting area... is there anything prohibiting us from firing a mounted-weapon? The way I see it, it's more of a weapons platform than a vehicle at that point, heh. :D

Oh, and before I get the "This Thread is Worthless Without Pics" response:

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/980/photopvz.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/539/img1294f.jpg
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/2339/img1307jq.jpg

goodlookin1
03-21-2011, 12:53 PM
:popcorn:

killmime1234
03-21-2011, 1:24 PM
I want to say that I've read it's illegal not just in regard to hunting, but I can't find the PC for it right now since they just renumbered/reindexed everything! If I find it I'll post it.

ETA: Looking at the old numbers, I think the following is what pertains to you, although I'm no lawyer so at least get a second opinion.

12034. (a) It is a misdemeanor for a driver of any motor vehicle or
the owner of any motor vehicle, whether or not the owner of the
vehicle is occupying the vehicle, knowingly to permit any other
person to carry into or bring into the vehicle a firearm in violation
of Section 12031 of this code or Section 2006 of the Fish and Game
Code.
(b) Any driver or owner of any vehicle, whether or not the owner
of the vehicle is occupying the vehicle, who knowingly permits any
other person to discharge any firearm from the vehicle is punishable
by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year or in
state prison for 16 months or two or three years.
(c) Any person who willfully and maliciously discharges a firearm
from a motor vehicle at another person other than an occupant of a
motor vehicle is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in
state prison for three, five, or seven years.
(d) Except as provided in Section 3002 of the Fish and Game Code,
any person who willfully and maliciously discharges a firearm from a
motor vehicle is guilty of a public offense punishable by
imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year or in the
state prison.

I think at the very least, (b) would apply to you. (d) might, depending on what they define as "maliciously." Unfortunately it doesn't offer any exceptions (except for 3002 of F&G code, but that'd apply to hunting) regarding where the vehicle based shooting is occuring, or whether or not it's even running.

Librarian
03-21-2011, 1:35 PM
I want to say that I've read it's illegal not just in regard to hunting, but I can't find the PC for it right now since they just renumbered/reindexed everything! If I find it I'll post it.

Old numbers are still available lots of places:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/pen.html

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/

The numbering does not actually take effect until 2012; bills considered in this session also take effect in 2012, unless otherwise stated in the bill, so they will use the new numbering.

choprzrul
03-21-2011, 1:44 PM
Depends upon the definition of 'from'.

Is sitting on the front fender & shooting the same as sitting in the driver's seat and shooting? I picture 'from' as intending 'from inside the vehicle'.

Not to mention, if removal of said weapon requires a tool, wouldn't the vehicle become an integral part of the weapon? Kinda like a rolling attachment?

.

InGrAM
03-21-2011, 1:46 PM
Isn't it a felony to shoot a firearm from a moving vehicle.... even painball guns/bb guns?

I would guess its legal too shoot if the vehicle is off/not moving. (what would be the difference? Say, you are laying on the roof of your vehicle)

killmime1234
03-21-2011, 1:49 PM
Depends upon the definition of 'from'.

Is sitting on the front fender & shooting the same as sitting in the driver's seat and shooting? I picture 'from' as intending 'from inside the vehicle'.

Not to mention, if removal of said weapon requires a tool, wouldn't the vehicle become an integral part of the weapon? Kinda like a rolling attachment?

.

I think that's some pretty optimistic thinking; more optimistic than I'd be willing to bet my freedom on.

Cpl. Haas
03-21-2011, 2:00 PM
Yeah, the unofficial response I've gotten from LEOs (aside from "that would be awesome!") is that the spirit of the law applies to firing a handheld firearm from inside a vehicle... ie, out an open window. The fact that the vehicle is designed to have a weapon mounted to it, and would be parked, moves it into that "well... I think you'd get a pass" category. Problem, of course, is that it could just as easily be interpreted as a misdemeanor.

The confusing thing is... I've personally overseen the firing of BFA firearms mounted to Humvees for motion picture use... where is the legal exemption for that?

Does anyone know what the laws are in Nevada?

CSACANNONEER
03-21-2011, 2:06 PM
It is not automatically illegal to shoot from or even hunt from a vehicle. IF you happen to be handicapped in such a way that the only way you can hunt is from a STATIONARY vehicle, you can get a special permit from DFG. If there was a law outright forbidding "discharging a firearm from a vehicle", DFG would not be able to hand out disabled permits. Nor, would one be able to hunt from a boat which is not under it's own power.

spgripside
03-21-2011, 2:15 PM
The confusing thing is... I've personally overseen the firing of BFA firearms mounted to Humvees for motion picture use... where is the legal exemption for that?


Cinematic immunity.

Write Winger
03-21-2011, 2:40 PM
Just on it's face, the seems to pertain to pointing a gun out the window and shooting at something, while being a douche bag. Having a ma deuce mounted on a hummer shooting at specific targets will more than likely get a "get some!" response than an arrest or citation.

choprzrul
03-21-2011, 2:41 PM
Cinematic immunity.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_f4G3TFLiAQ4/TBJYEuG7a-I/AAAAAAAABlQ/MxWl5ev3yT0/s400/diplomatic+immunity.jpg

Write Winger
03-21-2011, 2:42 PM
Or hell, ask the chief where a good place to shoot the thing is and if he'd like to come along for a few rounds :D

joefreas
03-21-2011, 2:58 PM
Whered you get the M1026? I've been looking for a surplus H-1.

Crom
03-21-2011, 3:10 PM
If this were done on BLM land in a responsible manner I don't think you would have any problems. I have sat in the back of my truck and used the tailgate as a shooting platform. The Humvee really isn't too much different, except that it was designed to umm have weapons fired from it. :D

Glock22Fan
03-21-2011, 3:18 PM
(c) Any person who willfully and maliciously discharges a firearm
from a motor vehicle at another person other than an occupant of a
motor vehicle is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in
state prison for three, five, or seven years.


So, it is OK to shoot someone who is inside a vehicle? :rolleyes:

pointedstick
03-21-2011, 3:22 PM
I know this is OT, but what's the gas mileage on that monster?

Glock22Fan
03-21-2011, 3:24 PM
I know this is OT, but what's the gas mileage on that monster?

Depends on whether you are shooting forwards or backwards!

Quiet
03-21-2011, 5:53 PM
AFAIK...
As long as the vehicle is parked in a non-public place where you can legally discharge a firearm, it is legal to discharge from the vehicle.

Lytle Creek belt-fed shoot.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_I88A6C5UfDU/SETyrqNndRI/AAAAAAAAA6c/LiKDcCpL-rk/s800/CIMG0087.JPG

iskra31
03-21-2011, 6:45 PM
Depends on whether you are shooting forwards or backwards!

:rofl:

B Strong
03-21-2011, 7:12 PM
I don't know of anyone ever prosecuted for firing a mounted weapon from a vehicle, I've done it myself many times, but then again it was never done under questionable circumstances either.

My best swag - not legal advice! - is that in an area where shooting is legal and safe, you'd have no problems with firing a legal firearm from a stationary vehicle.

GrizzlyGuy
03-21-2011, 7:17 PM
The constraint would likely be Fish and Game Code 2006 (http://law.onecle.com/california/fish/2006.html). It applies whether or not you are hunting:

(a) It is unlawful to possess a loaded rifle or shotgun in any
vehicle or conveyance or its attachments which is standing on or
along or is being driven on or along any public highway or other way
open to the public

(b) A rifle or shotgun shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes
of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in the
firing chamber but not when the only cartridges or shells are in the
magazine...

If you are out on private property in an area where discharge is not prohibited (check county codes) and you aren't hunting, go for it: load and fire away.

Cpl. Haas
03-21-2011, 10:37 PM
Whered you get the M1026? I've been looking for a surplus H-1.

My coworker and I got it from a defense contractor in Alabama... it was an MP truck assigned to an Army Reserve unit down in Florida before being cannibalized for parts and surplused out as a rolling chassis. We had to have it rebuilt and refurbished.

Before:

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/1843/m1044hmmwv4.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4784/m1044hmmwv30.jpg

After:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2350/62557262.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9793/65298107.jpg

I know this is OT, but what's the gas mileage on that monster?

Haven't been able to actually calculate that yet... AM General claims the M1026 is capable of 13mpg, but I highly doubt that. It also has an armored chassis, roof, doors, sponsons, and rear hatch... so I'm guessing about 6mpg.

The constraint would likely be Fish and Game Code 2006 (http://law.onecle.com/california/fish/2006.html). It applies whether or not you are hunting:

That code refers to possessing a loaded firearm IN a vehicle... the Ma Deuce would be ON TOP of the vehicle... essentially, it's like shooting a gun prone from the bed of a pickup... only far more awesome. :cool:

Nessal
03-21-2011, 10:45 PM
How much does a humvee cost generally?

Cpl. Haas
03-21-2011, 11:14 PM
How much does a humvee cost generally?

It varies pretty radically depending on year, model, branch, and overall condition...

The most common HMMWVs out on the civilian market are 1986-1987 M998 soft-tops that were released by the Marine Corps... those were all pretty worn out and can vary anywhere from ~$10k for a non-running 998, to ~$50k for a collector's-grade refurbished truck. Then there are the guys who have managed to find all the parts to rebuild one of the newer 6.5TD Extended Capacity Vehicles like this one (http://usedh1.com/live/template.php?page=item_detail&forsaleid=358)... that'll run you a cool $102k! :eek:

Actual M1026s, M1044s, M1045s, etc. are much rarer... and much more expensive. Even a non-running '86 USMC 1045 can go for close to $30k from what I've seen... the reason for this is that real M10XX series armament/tow carriers have the armor plating that M998 don't have. My 1026 also has the supplemental armored doors, roof, sponsons, and hatch (essentially making it an M1044), as well as the original gunner's platform, 40mm/.50cal ammo can brackets, and M2/Mk19 mounts.

The rough appraisal I got from a collector was in the neighborhood of ~$75k if I found the right buyer.

Ian
03-22-2011, 12:40 AM
nice ride!!

2Bear
03-22-2011, 12:54 AM
Does god-light always rain down on it as in the photo?

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/980/photopvz.jpg

Anchors
03-22-2011, 1:56 AM
^@2Bear :rofl2:

I said it last time you posted it. Sweet ride!

loather
03-22-2011, 7:27 AM
After:
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9793/65298107.jpg


Do you have it parked in front of Evangeline's in old town there? That place has some hilarious stuff.

longhairchris
03-22-2011, 7:56 AM
I think I remember the whole "firing from a moving vehicle" thing was to create a separate, prosecutable crime to apply to drive-by shootings. I say mount up and fire away.

Nice ride!

Uxi
03-22-2011, 8:03 AM
That's awesome!

ubet
03-22-2011, 8:19 AM
Just think if you drove the sac with the ma deuce mounted, get any parking spot you wanted, I say, MAJOR WIN!

robnbritt
03-22-2011, 10:48 AM
I know someone with a ma duece for sale if you want to complete that project. I think he was asking $8,500 w/ammo

PM if you want more info

Cpl. Haas
03-22-2011, 11:35 AM
Do you have it parked in front of Evangeline's in old town there? That place has some hilarious stuff.

Ha, yup! One of my part-time jobs while in college was working loss prevention there... crazy place.

I think I remember the whole "firing from a moving vehicle" thing was to create a separate, prosecutable crime to apply to drive-by shootings. I say mount up and fire away.

Yeah, the universal response I've been getting is that firing it while the truck is stationary should be fine... there'd be a better chance of a misinformed LEO thinking the Ma Deuce was illegal that the method used to fire it.

Just think if you drove the sac with the ma deuce mounted, get any parking spot you wanted, I say, MAJOR WIN!

Heck, I don't even need the Ma Deuce! When I drove that thing down J St. in evening traffic, everyone was getting out of my way! :D

I know someone with a ma duece for sale if you want to complete that project. I think he was asking $8,500 w/ammo

Heh, I don't know about buying a real one... the $800 replicas would suffice if I need to have the look. If your friend wants to fire his M2 from a Humvee before he sells it though, PM me! :cool:

Write Winger
03-22-2011, 5:43 PM
That is the SHTF vehicle of all time right there.

And yes, 2Bear, it IS God's light, saying "Giggity!"

Uxi
03-22-2011, 5:44 PM
should get the MOUT guards for the turret and mount up a dummy weapon at least to go driving around. :D

acelefty
03-22-2011, 6:47 PM
essentially, it's like shooting a gun prone from the bed of a pickup... only far more awesome. :cool:

Is it legal to target shoot in the Nevada desert on BLM land like that? Sometimes I use the back of my Rhino as a rest to shoot targets when we are out in the desert but now I am worried that might not be legal...

Quiet
03-22-2011, 7:27 PM
Is it legal to target shoot in the Nevada desert on BLM land like that? Sometimes I use the back of my Rhino as a rest to shoot targets when we are out in the desert but now I am worried that might not be legal...

AFAIK...
In NV, it is legal to discharge a firearm from a vehicle as long as you are not on a highway/road/trail/etc.

It's why the "car hunt" was held in NV, even though the organizers were from CA.
The "car hunt" was an event in which a vehicle was set up to operate by remote control and then participants would chase after & shoot it.
http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/car-hunt-chase.jpg

todd2968
03-22-2011, 8:41 PM
It might be illegal but probably the only response you get will be, " can I shoot it"

GrizzlyGuy
03-22-2011, 9:55 PM
That code refers to possessing a loaded firearm IN a vehicle... the Ma Deuce would be ON TOP of the vehicle... essentially, it's like shooting a gun prone from the bed of a pickup... only far more awesome. :cool:

Not just in, but "in any vehicle or conveyance or its attachments". Game wardens have been known to cite people who simply placed their loaded rifle on the hood of their truck. The awesomeness you describe is so flippin' awesome that I'd hate to see them nab you on such a lame interpretation of a silly law. :cool:

Cpl. Haas
03-24-2011, 12:36 AM
Sounds like just about every other gun law here in CA... ambiguous. It's probably legal... but it might not be... but you'll probably get a pass anyway. :rolleyes: