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View Full Version : What should my friend do? Relative died & left AK behind, now what?


Danz la Nuit
03-20-2011, 8:48 PM
Friend of a friend came to me asking what they should do in this situation, apparently an extended family member passed away & when the family went through the house they found an AK that they don't know anything about & don't know if it's CA legal or what the situation is.

They want to find out if it's legal so they can figure out what to do with it but obviously don't want to have it taken just from asking questions, etc

I didn't know what to tell em...

Any ideas?

gimme
03-20-2011, 8:51 PM
If they call or walk into a place to ask questions, why would it be taken?

Personally, I would meet a fellow cg'er and have them give it a once over to check the legality of it....then I will make an offer :D

TapTalk....bleh!

cannon
03-20-2011, 9:36 PM
Is it on the list?

If so, cut up the receiver and sell as a parts kit.

If not, Sell or keep it.

MrPlink
03-20-2011, 10:23 PM
Is it on the list?

If so, cut up the receiver and sell as a parts kit.

If not, Sell or keep it.

to expand on this -

make sure it is not listed by model on the CA list of assault weapons.

if its not the list, lets make sure its in a legal configuration.

(no evil features, or mag lock)

if you dont know what any of that means, go to the top of the forums and click on the links, do some homework and go from there

djleisure
03-20-2011, 10:26 PM
Here's the list of AK-type weapons that are banned by name - just look for markings on the receiver. Unfortunately, if it's an older AK, it is probably on the list.

http://calnra.com/flowchart/gfx/a2y.gif

...and this one...

http://calnra.com/flowchart/gfx/a3n.gif

Tiberius
03-20-2011, 10:51 PM
Couldn't it be sold out of state, if its illegal in Cali?

Cyc Wid It
03-20-2011, 11:04 PM
Couldn't it be sold out of state, if its illegal in Cali?

How would you sell it if it isn't registered and you aren't the owner?

DNA
03-21-2011, 12:24 AM
And if it's on the lists, strip parts from receiver (and then destroy it) and head off towards the next build party with a AK flat..

Dan

tonelar
03-21-2011, 12:35 AM
Doesnt whoever is the executor of the estate have x amount of days to dispose of things like an AW?

MrPlink
03-21-2011, 12:54 AM
How would you sell it if it isn't registered and you aren't the owner?

registered?

We may not be talking about a RAW, outside of that long guns arent registered here.

Quiet
03-21-2011, 5:30 AM
Doesnt whoever is the executor of the estate have x amount of days to dispose of things like an AW?
If it is a RAW, the person has up to 90 days to destroy it, sell it to a CA FFL dealer with an assault weapons permit, turn it in to LE or take it out-of-state. [PC 12285(b(1)]

If it is not a RAW and it is make/model listed as an assault weapon, contact a lawyer and surrender it to LE for destruction in lieu of no criminal charges.

yellowfin
03-21-2011, 7:01 AM
DO NOT destroy a rifle. PERIOD. Sell or store out of state if necessary. The anti gun pukes destroy guns, we should have none of that within our people.

frankm
03-21-2011, 7:04 AM
If it is a RAW, the person has up to 90 days to destroy it, sell it to a CA FFL dealer with an assault weapons permit, turn it in to LE or take it out-of-state. [PC 12285(b(1)]

If it is not a RAW and it is make/model listed as an assault weapon, contact a lawyer and surrender it to LE for destruction in lieu of no criminal charges.

Technically, only the lower receiver is registered. The rest of it is just parts. You could turn in the lower receiver and put the parts on a new rifle or sell them.

Tiberius
03-21-2011, 9:26 AM
Are there California FFLs that can buy a gun like the one mentioned here? Someone referred to having an AW permit.

DisgruntledReaper
03-21-2011, 10:33 AM
DO NOT destroy a rifle. PERIOD. Sell or store out of state if necessary. The anti gun pukes destroy guns, we should have none of that within our people.


THIS!^^^^^^^ take it to nv/az go to a show sell it to someone or even an ffl if needed, they do paperwork,you are done-if it is an 'AW'-pisses me off,NONE of our SEMI AUTO RIFLES are even AW BY THE DEFININTION OF AN AW.....politicalasshats.

If it is a legal one-an heir or 'sideways relative-ie wife,brother,sister,etc- can probably do the transfer by printing out the DOinJ papers on self registereing,attach copy of Death Cert,make copies for EVERYONE and send it via CERTIFIED MAIL to the DOJ...certified means a person has to sign for it and they cant claim they never received it.

...good luck and NEVER WILLINGLY destroy a firearm....EVER...

CSACANNONEER
03-21-2011, 10:41 AM
How would you sell it if it isn't registered and you aren't the owner?

If it is not a "Registered Assault Weapon", chances are it is not "registered" to anyone. Most long guns are not "registered" at all (even the one you are going to buy from a gunshop this week). So, selling an "unregistered" gun (even older handguns) is perfectly legal and done all the time.

Technically, only the lower receiver is registered. The rest of it is just parts. You could turn in the lower receiver and put the parts on a new rifle or sell them.

Technically, only RAWs and long guns which someone has sent in a VRF for are "registered" at all.

fcr
03-21-2011, 11:09 AM
Sounds like a situation I may be familiar with. To the OP, was the memorial this last weekend ?

munkeeboi
03-21-2011, 11:21 AM
Some bad advice here if it is an on list unregistered rifle

Transportation has harsher penalties than just mere possession

Do what mrplink said, do more research on what it is, if its legal and go from there

hnoppenberger
03-21-2011, 11:41 AM
SSS

AJAX22
03-21-2011, 1:22 PM
How many felonies can we tell a guy to commit in one thread?

some SERIOUSLY bad advice going on here....

contact a lawyer...

Tiberius
03-21-2011, 2:40 PM
I'm honestly not sure what part of the advice above is bad, so I'll ask this. If the OP has come across an AK as described, would it be wrong for him to drive it to Nevada or Arizona and sell it? Assuming he's the executor of the estate, or perhaps authorized by the executor, what else could happen? Could it really be illegal to keep it and illegal to move it? Seems like a Catch-22. I know our gun laws can be crazy but I'm hoping they're not that crazy. Then again . . . .

Quiet
03-21-2011, 6:07 PM
I'm honestly not sure what part of the advice above is bad, so I'll ask this. If the OP has come across an AK as described, would it be wrong for him to drive it to Nevada or Arizona and sell it? Assuming he's the executor of the estate, or perhaps authorized by the executor, what else could happen? Could it really be illegal to keep it and illegal to move it? Seems like a Catch-22. I know our gun laws can be crazy but I'm hoping they're not that crazy. Then again . . . .

CA laws only allows registered assault weapons to be possessed by the executor of the estate for 90 days. The time period is so the RAW can be sold to a CA FFL dealer with an assault weapons permit or taken out-of-state for sale/storage or surredered to LE.

If it is an unregistered assault weapon due to being make/model listed, it's a felony to possess and a felony to transport it. The only legal recourse is to surrender it to LE.

If it is an unregistered assault weapon due to features, then it could be rendered into a non-assault weapon and transfered like any other firearm.

AJAX22
03-21-2011, 6:22 PM
Cutting up an unreg assault weapon does NOT erase the prior crime of possession, and could be considered destruction of evidence... (heck for all you know it may have been reported stolen back in 1989)

Cutting up a REG assault weapon is also problematic as it doesn't get rid of the paper trail, and, depending on the manufacturer it may have the reg serial number on the trunion... you would really need to get it properly de-milled to BATFE spec by an 07FFL (who is also an AW Dealer licence holder)... o

If you transport it across state lines it needs to be handed over to an FFL, not sold at a gunshow to a private party or you've broken federal law.

Transporting an AW is a separate and different crime from possession...

There is some good advice in this thread (talk to a lawyer).... but there is also some very bad advice....

If you don't have the AW laws down 100%, you shouldn't screw around with assault weapons of unknown origin and status in the state of CA.

legal advice is cheap compared to the alternative...

frankm
03-21-2011, 7:22 PM
I submit that only the lower is the AW. I also submit that taking parts off of the lower is legal. OR, are you saying that the entire rifle is the AW? Meaning, if you take the bolt out, the bolt is a felony to possess?

MrPlink
03-21-2011, 7:27 PM
^ just the lower, you got it

Shady
03-21-2011, 7:29 PM
cut it up and rebuild it at a build party

Cokebottle
03-21-2011, 7:33 PM
Couldn't it be sold out of state, if its illegal in Cali?
Transportation of an unregistered assault weapon carries harsher penalties than mere possession.

Do NOT attempt to sell it out of state.

There is ONE legal pathway if it is a listed, unregistered assault weapon.

Contact a GOOD gun attorney who is familiar with the situation. Best bet would be to contact the Calguns Foundation for a referral.

The attorney will make arrangements with local LE for the gun's surrender. Especially given the circumstances, prosecution is highly unlikely.

Cokebottle
03-21-2011, 7:36 PM
DO NOT destroy a rifle. PERIOD. Sell or store out of state if necessary. The anti gun pukes destroy guns, we should have none of that within our people.
While I share your feelings....


Please do not suggest that Calguns members commit a felony.

If it is an assault weapon, that is unfortunately it's destiny.

frankm
03-21-2011, 9:56 PM
There is ONE legal pathway if it is a listed, unregistered assault weapon.
The attorney will make arrangements with local LE for the gun's surrender.

Can we get clarification? Can he just surrender the lower?

Cyc Wid It
03-21-2011, 10:09 PM
Yeah what I was driving at earlier I guess was that its' not as easy as driving across the border and selling it elsewhere (if it's on-list but not a registered RAW) etc.

five.five-six
03-21-2011, 10:19 PM
2 cuts with a band saw through receiver should do the trick, make sure to remove the BCG and the FCG parts first, and don't nick/cut the trigger guard or trunnions, a new flat & rivets will cost ~ $25 + a build party and you have complied with PRKs stupid gun laws

motorwerks
03-21-2011, 10:43 PM
they could give it to me and I'll deal with it! :D

Erin
03-21-2011, 11:24 PM
i say give it/sell it to someone who isnt an idiot. done.

unless its FA its not registered. if its not stolen its not a problem.

tonelar
03-21-2011, 11:35 PM
people keep refering to a lower and from what i've read this is not an AR

Anyone seen another post from the OP?

sd_shooter
03-22-2011, 5:20 AM
Friend of a friend came to me asking what they should do in this situation, apparently an extended family member passed away & when the family went through the house they found an AK that they don't know anything about & don't know if it's CA legal or what the situation is.

They want to find out if it's legal so they can figure out what to do with it but obviously don't want to have it taken just from asking questions, etc

I didn't know what to tell em...

Any ideas?

Post some pics first, I think it's premature to start saying "call a lawyer." Lawyers cost money, and that $200 you'd be spending on the phone call could be spent buying the gun from the heirs.

AJAX22
03-22-2011, 6:15 AM
Post some pics first, I think it's premature to start saying "call a lawyer." Lawyers cost money, and that $200 you'd be spending on the phone call could be spent buying the gun from the heirs.

Post evidence of what may be a felony on a site that is regularly read by members of ALL law enforcement agencies....


$200 is CHEAP compared to the legal fees from getting popped for doing it wrong.

X-NewYawker
03-22-2011, 6:23 AM
registered?

We may not be talking about a RAW, outside of that long guns arent registered here.

Bingo -- everyone jumps to conclusion the gun is illicit.
Is there a way to check serial number with DOJ?
In any case, do it quickly.

Nobama4us
03-22-2011, 6:43 AM
I say what AK? "Nope no AK's here sir." :shrug:

sd_shooter
03-22-2011, 8:44 AM
Post evidence of what may be a felony on a site that is regularly read by members of ALL law enforcement agencies....


$200 is CHEAP compared to the legal fees from getting popped for doing it wrong.

What felony? Someone's inherited a gun, that's all. The OP posted no real information whatsoever other than there's a gun in someone's house. The gun should at least be identified before spending money on anything.

Posting an image online doesn't constitute evidence. Who took the image? Where was it taken? What was the status of the firearm and the owner?

Here's I'll post a picture:
(I just googled it, I don't own this although I dream of owning one...)
http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/9/99/ValmetM76F.jpg/500px-ValmetM76F.jpg

Some of you will recognize it as a Valmet which is on the list. You could now say "Careful buddy, that rifle in the picture is on the list." But is a felony involved? No.

So, a guy could say "a friend of a friend has a rifle that looks just like this <insert picture of similar rifle>, what can you tell me about it?" That's not a felony either.

Jinxo
03-22-2011, 9:17 AM
Check it against the PDF flow chart that can be found on this site. If it is on there contact a lawyer and discuss options. If it is NOT on there ensure that it is Cali compliant.

When working with a lawyer you are protected by attorney-client privilege so if he/she contacts an LEO for the possibility of a turn over they cannot tell the LEO your name. There may be the possibility of working with a FFL that is licensed to take possession of such items - I would hate to see a gem like that destroyed.

As other people have said, possession and transportation of an unregistered AW is far more inconvenient than spending a couple hundred bucks to cover your butt.

Cokebottle
03-22-2011, 5:46 PM
Can we get clarification? Can he just surrender the lower?
He could try, but he would be risking prosecution if the LE in his city/county is not gun-friendly.
I might try it in Shasta. I wouldn't even consider it in Alameda.

And he's talking about an AK... it's not impossible to surrender just the receiver, but it may be frowned upon and tilt the scales more toward prosecution.

As it stands, he legitimately discovered that there was an AW in the belongings of a deceased relative. A direct surrender shows that he is acting in good faith, attempting to "do the right thing"
Walking in with just the receiver shows that he did not "do the right thing" in the most expedient manner... he took the time to wait until it was convenient to disassemble the gun.

1337Grenadier
03-22-2011, 8:34 PM
Whatever you do do not lose it in a tragic boating accident.

RoamingShooter
03-22-2011, 9:22 PM
Hello all, my first post though I have visited often for all the useful info here. My intent is not to hijack this thread. I could use some information on a similar situation that will hopefully help us both.

About me: I'm a California resident in the military, stationed outside the state and passing through on leave for a couple of days.

There is some conflicting information on being able to sell the weapon out of state here and reading up on the laws has not given me a definitive/simple answer...go figure :rolleyes: If legal, the executor of the estate in the OP should have this option/right as long as they are within the "grace period" under CA law right?

As far as I understand, a RAW cannot be sold or transferred in state (other than to a qualified dealer). You can't inherit a RAW either. The law makes it clear you can destroy the receiver yourself and that's the end of that. You now have parts for a new build as several have posted.

In my situation I have a relative with a RAW (Norinco MAK-90) and would like to buy it and keep it out of state. I would prefer to keep the whole gun if possible. Anybody dealt with this? It appears legal as long as you go through a qualified dealer and have them ship it to a FFL out of state. I basically have one day left in state, so time is of the essence for me. A simpler route of taking it out of state and registering it in said state is preferred, but I don't want the registered owner to have any problems afterwards.

Sorry for the rambling on , but CA gun law is anything but simple. The short version of my question is: Can the registered owner/executioner of estate take it out of state and sell it?

Quiet
03-22-2011, 11:18 PM
The short version of my question is: Can the registered owner/executioner of estate take it out of state and sell it?

Yes. If it is a RAW, the owner or executor of the estate can transport out-of-state in order to sell or store it.

sd_shooter
03-23-2011, 4:23 AM
He could try, but he would be risking prosecution if the LE in his city/county is not gun-friendly.
I might try it in Shasta. I wouldn't even consider it in Alameda.

And he's talking about an AK... it's not impossible to surrender just the receiver, but it may be frowned upon and tilt the scales more toward prosecution.

As it stands, he legitimately discovered that there was an AW in the belongings of a deceased relative. A direct surrender shows that he is acting in good faith, attempting to "do the right thing"
Walking in with just the receiver shows that he did not "do the right thing" in the most expedient manner... he took the time to wait until it was convenient to disassemble the gun.

What makes it an AW? He said "AK", see below:

Friend of a friend came to me asking what they should do in this situation, apparently an extended family member passed away & when the family went through the house they found an AK that they don't know anything about & don't know if it's CA legal or what the situation is.

They want to find out if it's legal so they can figure out what to do with it but obviously don't want to have it taken just from asking questions, etc

I didn't know what to tell em...

Any ideas?

I have a couple AKs. They happen to be CA legal. If I pass away, does that make them into AWs?

RoamingShooter
03-23-2011, 7:17 AM
I have a couple AKs. They happen to be CA legal. If I pass away, does that make them into AWs?

Assuming they aren't on the banned list and as long as "evil" features aren't added your fine. Assault weapons had to be registered before the California ban. In my case the AK is a registered assault weapon, the only legal way to have this model in CA. The OP is not sure of the status of his friends weapon.

My plan is to take the gun out of state and not worry about it being "evil" anymore.:D The OP should have the same option or will need to do some research and find out exactly what it is they have and proceed cautiously.

Cokebottle
03-23-2011, 6:04 PM
What makes it an AW? He said "AK", see below:
He doesn't know whether it's legal or not.
Given that, it most likely does not have a maglock, and is most likely featured. Off list? It can certainly be made legal... but the OP has clammed up. I suspect it is listed or we'd have heard back.

Unless and until the OP comes back with a better description, we have no way of knowing.

My comments are directed at the usual suspects who are advising the OP to potentially commit a felony.
"Take it out of state and sell it" is not a legal option IF it is an AW.
If it's not an AW, we need to keep it in California!

Danz la Nuit
03-23-2011, 10:07 PM
He doesn't know whether it's legal or not.
Given that, it most likely does not have a maglock, and is most likely featured. Off list? It can certainly be made legal... but the OP has clammed up. I suspect it is listed or we'd have heard back.

Unless and until the OP comes back with a better description, we have no way of knowing.

My comments are directed at the usual suspects who are advising the OP to potentially commit a felony.
"Take it out of state and sell it" is not a legal option IF it is an AW.
If it's not an AW, we need to keep it in California!

I have not seen the rifle, I passed along the link to this thread to the person who needs the info as well as the contact info for the lawyers @ the CGF.

TY