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View Full Version : California resident purchasing guns out of state...


digitaledge
03-19-2011, 10:43 PM
I am headed to OR, wondering what the laws are if I buy a gun at a show there.

Am I only allowed to purchase firearms that are legal in CA?

Do I have to do something to register them when I return?

Is this an opportunity to get something cool that I could not normally have?

Any info or links are appreciated.

BKinzey
03-19-2011, 10:50 PM
Here's the Wiki page:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_firearms_Interstate

Lots of restrictions.:(

lumwilliam
03-19-2011, 11:00 PM
What about for long guns? Seems to be a lot less restrictive...for now.

Librarian
03-19-2011, 11:16 PM
What about for long guns? Seems to be a lot less restrictive...for now.

Only for C&R, 50+ years old - otherwise CA requires you to use a CA FFL. Getting an OR FFL to read the Federal law and the California law to get even that far would be a real accomplishment.

In short, unless you have an FFL of some kind (C&R FFL counts for C&R weapons) you have to make all transfers at a CA FFL.

Quiet
03-19-2011, 11:19 PM
As a CA resident, you can travel to any state in the USA and purchase a firearm(s).

However, you can not legally take possession of the firearm(s).
Unless you have a FFL or the firearm is a 50+ year old rifle/shotgun.

After you purchase the firearm(s), they will need to be shipped to a CA FFL dealer. Handgun(s) will need to be on the approved list or be exempt from it.

You will then do the 4473/DROS + 10 day wait + transfer fee with the CA FFL dealer.

Mssr. Eleganté
03-20-2011, 3:53 AM
...However, you can not legally take possession of the firearm(s). Unless you have a FFL or the firearm is a 50+ year old rifle/shotgun.

And just to clarify, the only time a non-FFL can legally take possession of that 50+ year old C&R rifle or shotgun is if they acquire it from an FFL who is licensed in that State, and only if you acquire it at that FFL's licensed premises. You can't take possession of any guns from non-FFLs in another State unless you have an FFL yourself.

digitaledge
03-20-2011, 9:50 AM
Thank you. I was wondering if I was in for something like that.

G60
03-20-2011, 9:55 AM
Use the 'loophole.'
:p

Mesa Tactical
03-20-2011, 10:02 AM
Oh yes, what about the gun show loophole? Just go on up to Oregon and take advantage of the gun show loophole to buy all the guns you want!

Write Winger
03-20-2011, 4:28 PM
Ok, seriously, just for those who don't know because there are those who are ignorant of the law and duped by ignorant media reporting, you can purchase a gun from anybody outside CA, it doesn't have to be at a gun show, that just happens to be a good avenue to purchase at because there are lots of guns in one place to choose from. This loophole they talk about is otherwise known as freedom and liberty, where two Americans can buy/sell private property without government permission. In the eyes of the media, liberty = loophole. The gun show has nothing to do with it. Now, if you then cross CA state lines with your legally purchased gun, that is where the felony occurs.

Write Winger
03-20-2011, 4:32 PM
And the laws regarding this are so complex, I'm probably wrong too, so good luck. Please feel free to correct my FUD :D

Librarian
03-20-2011, 4:47 PM
Ok, seriously, just for those who don't know because there are those who are ignorant of the law and duped by ignorant media reporting, you can purchase a gun from anybody outside CA, it doesn't have to be at a gun show, that just happens to be a good avenue to purchase at because there are lots of guns in one place to choose from. ... The gun show has nothing to do with it. Now, if you then cross CA state lines with your legally purchased gun, that is where the felony occurs.

That's true for the buyer - the seller(s), on the other hand, have problems as soon as the transfer occurs.

I've always felt it was impolite to expose another to prosecution for a Federal felony merely based on their lack of information.

Things were much more sensible before 1968.

See the wiki http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_firearms_Interstate

lumwilliam
03-20-2011, 5:47 PM
Only for C&R, 50+ years old - otherwise CA requires you to use a CA FFL. Getting an OR FFL to read the Federal law and the California law to get even that far would be a real accomplishment.

In short, unless you have an FFL of some kind (C&R FFL counts for C&R weapons) you have to make all transfers at a CA FFL.

OK, I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Are all the following true?


There is no long gun registration in California.

I can take my unregistered California long gun over to Arizona or Nevada or Oregon to go shooting.

I can bring my unregistered California long gun back into California when I'm done shooting in another state.

When and where I purchased that long gun that's in my trunk is not the business of the State of California.


Just making sure everyone remains in compliance with the law.

dustoff31
03-20-2011, 6:29 PM
OK, I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Are all the following true?


1. There is no long gun registration in California. TRUE

2. I can take my unregistered California long gun over to Arizona or Nevada or Oregon to go shooting. TRUE

3. I can bring my unregistered California long gun back into California when I'm done shooting in another state. TRUE

4. When and where I purchased that long gun that's in my trunk is not the business of the State of California. FALSE It is the business of both the both the State of CA, and the BATFE.

Librarian
03-20-2011, 7:02 PM
1. There is no long gun registration in California. TRUE

2. I can take my unregistered California long gun over to Arizona or Nevada or Oregon to go shooting. TRUE

3. I can bring my unregistered California long gun back into California when I'm done shooting in another state. TRUE

4. When and where I purchased that long gun that's in my trunk is not the business of the State of California.

FALSE It is the business of both the both the State of CA, and the BATFE.Well, presuming the purchase was legal someplace, since (1) is true, (4) becomes true, because CA does not have a record of a particular long gun connected to a particular person/buyer.

If one lived in, say, Oregon and legally purchased long guns there, and then moved to CA, CA has no interest in those long guns.

But if you live in CA, it's very difficult to legally purchase a long gun outside of CA, and in general without a license it's illegal to take possession of a purchased long gun out of state - transfer has to go through a CA FFL.

dustoff31
03-20-2011, 7:35 PM
But if you live in CA, it's very difficult to legally purchase a long gun outside of CA, and in general without a license it's illegal to take possession of a purchased long gun out of state - transfer has to go through a CA FFL.

This is what I was getting at. Given a reason to dig, even if invented, this could all be figured out fairly easily. And if it did turn out to be an illegal sale, that's not good for said (former and nevermore) gun owner.

russ69
03-20-2011, 7:46 PM
1. There is no long gun registration in California. TRUE

But if bought at a dealer, there is a record of the sale.

lumwilliam
03-20-2011, 7:55 PM
But if bought at a dealer, there is a record of the sale.

I've got a friend in Arizona who always brags to me that although there is a background check, in his 'free state' there is no recording the details of the purchase of long guns.

Librarian
03-20-2011, 8:01 PM
But if bought at a dealer, there is a record of the sale.

But no details on the DROS submitted to CA - no manufacturer, model, caliber data, just 'long gun'.

dustoff31
03-20-2011, 8:20 PM
I've got a friend in Arizona who always brags to me that although there is a background check, in his 'free state' there is no recording the details of the purchase of long guns.

He's pretty close. If you buy from a dealer in AZ, you still complete a 4473 and there is a NICS check which one is exempt from with an AZ CCW.

Private sales, handgun or long gun are paperless, except for the cash of course. No NICS check required.

Cokebottle
03-20-2011, 9:06 PM
I've got a friend in Arizona who always brags to me that although there is a background check, in his 'free state' there is no recording the details of the purchase of long guns.
Same is true for California.
The same Federal 4473 is used here and in CA. The serial number is recorded there, and then it goes into the FFL's files for 20 years.

California DROS does not record the serial number for long guns.

KOTU
03-20-2011, 9:16 PM
okay so if i go to college in utah, and i want to put together a lower... i can buy the off-list stripped lower, LPK, put them together, and bring them into california? or is that a no-no?

louie
03-21-2011, 9:00 AM
I am pretty sure that is a no no. You can have it over there, but you can't bring it back. I could be wrong, but doesn't seem like you could bring in an off list receiver legally to CA.

JSilvoso
03-21-2011, 9:07 AM
From ATF website: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

Q: May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?
A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

Q: May an unlicensed person obtain ammunition from an out-of-State source?
Yes, provided he or she is not a person prohibited from possessing or receiving ammunition.

[18 U.S.C. 922(g) and (n)]

oaklander
03-21-2011, 9:50 AM
Please also remember that with a few exceptions so called "assault weapons" can't be brought into Ca.

For example my c&r allows me to buy certain weapons legally in other states but some of those can never be brought here. Like a semi auto cr Tommy gun without a bb.

Via Android. Excuse brevity. I'm a happy nerd.

rojocorsa
05-18-2011, 6:49 PM
What is so bad about someone buying a Mossberg 500 (for example) in AZ and doing the 4473 and simply bringing it back?


I know not to expect the answer to make sense because it's PRK.

Sigh.

Librarian
05-18-2011, 7:09 PM
What is so bad about someone buying a Mossberg 500 (for example) in AZ and doing the 4473 and simply bringing it back?


I know not to expect the answer to make sense because it's PRK.

Sigh.

Little to do with CA, more to do with Feds.