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ArmedLiberal
03-19-2011, 6:11 PM
Alright, Calgunners, I have a question that might make a lot of you not like me very much. But by playing devilís advocate, Iím helping to keep us all on the cutting edge of intelligent discussion. If it makes us play the game smarter so we stay out of trouble, then by all means I must propose this hypothetical.

One of the very first things I thought to myself when I purchased a bullet button configured AR-15 from a local gun store was, ďWell what happens when somebody comes along with a finger small enough to stick into the bullet button and operate it like a normal magazine release?Ē Technically, that would make the rifle an assault weapon according to California state law. I have a feeling this one specially endowed finger might ruin the bullet button for all of us. Pretty far-fetched, right? Well, maybe not.

Now, I know that the bullet button opening is quite small. The hole looks to be about 6mm in diameter by my measurement. But you know what else is pretty dang small? A childís fingers. I have worked in a day-care center, so I have seen some pretty tiny fingers. If you have little kids, itís a good idea to buy covers for your power outlets, since little kids certainly can and do stick their fingers in the little holes.

Do I believe that children below a certain age/size are capable of releasing a magazine on bullet button equipped AR-15 without any tools? Yes, I do think it is possible. How young does the child need to be exactly? I donít know and I donít want to test my hypothesis for obvious reasons. I certainly hope no one posts a Youtube video demonstrating such an experiment.

So the question is summarized: Does the very fact that children have fingers small enough to fit into the bullet button hole render the bullet button incapable of preventing ALL persons from releasing the magazine without the aid of a tool? Could this argument be made to make bullet button users into possessors of unregistered assault weapons?

I canít be the first person to think this up. If I can think it, so can those in the legal profession.

The question has me bothered. I am considering going featureless with my AR and not looking back.

Legitimate concern? Or do I need to take a chill pill? I really hope to hear some intelligent feedback.

evidens83
03-19-2011, 6:14 PM
Just tried with my 1 year old. Nope it doesnt fit. Take a chill pill lol....

bohoki
03-19-2011, 6:15 PM
or what if you cut a fingernail to fit

NSR500
03-19-2011, 6:17 PM
This is just asinine...

1. If a child is still at a point where they have a 6mm diameter finger, why would they be around guns!

2. If you give a child unsupervised access to a firearm in California you have already broken a law!

California Gun Safe Requirements
The state of California requires all gun owners to store firearms in a gun safe that meets state Department of Justice requirements. These minimum standards include outfitting the safe with a mechanical or electronic combination lock with at least 10,000 combinations that’s encased in a drill-resistant shell and has interior hinges that can’t be removed from the outside of the safe. Single-walled safes need to be constructed of 12-gauge steel, while multiple-walled cells must have a combined wall width of 0.10 inches. The safe must also be able to fully contain firearms; trigger locks do not meet California requirements.

ArmedLiberal
03-19-2011, 6:21 PM
It's not really a matter of the child having access to the firearm. It's more a technicality revolving aroung the idea that if even 1 human could in any possibility activate the button with their finger, game over.

Now I didn't ask anyone to try this with their 1 year old, but oh well it happened. Good to know the fingers didn't fit.

Mssr. Elegantť
03-19-2011, 6:28 PM
...If you give a child unsupervised access to a firearm in California you have already broken a law!

California Gun Safe Requirements
The state of California requires all gun owners to store firearms in a gun safe that meets state Department of Justice requirements. These minimum standards include outfitting the safe with a mechanical or electronic combination lock with at least 10,000 combinations that’s encased in a drill-resistant shell and has interior hinges that can’t be removed from the outside of the safe. Single-walled safes need to be constructed of 12-gauge steel, while multiple-walled cells must have a combined wall width of 0.10 inches. The safe must also be able to fully contain firearms; trigger locks do not meet California requirements


Where did you find this information? It is not true.

Oh wait, it looks like you found it on eHow.com :rofl:

http://www.ehow.com/list_6726510_gun-safe-regulations.html

oldsmoboat
03-19-2011, 6:32 PM
<--- brain not busted

MUNCHIE
03-19-2011, 6:36 PM
This debate is so asinine I had to post. If this state actually goes as far as to challenge the legality of bullet buttons because someone who has not yet reached an age to wipe their own *****, let alone operate a firearm, can potentially release a magazine without the use of a tool, it would not make the slightest bit of difference to me. I would consider that ruling the straw that broke the law-abiding, tax-paying camel's back, and I would go on the LAM ;)

IPSICK
03-19-2011, 6:51 PM
or what if you cut a fingernail to fit

This did enter my thoughts as well.

bwiese
03-19-2011, 6:52 PM
A properly constructed Bullet-Button-style maglock should
(1) have a sufficiently narrow opening to prevent body part insertion
(2) have sufficient spring tension that even a residual hangnail can't push button.

If the above are true, you're good to go.

thetaxman
03-19-2011, 7:04 PM
I'm going to genetically modify my finger. Back in a few years with the results.

ArmedLiberal
03-19-2011, 7:38 PM
OK so,
Child's finger: pretty much ruled out.
Fingernail: also ruled out, if BB is constructed properly
Genetically modified freak finger: Still ruled out, assuming a "proper" mag lock

Worst case scenario, we make the bullet button housing longer and/or narrower. I don't know why I didn't think of that before.

A big thanks to my overactive imagination.

Chill pill taken.

SuperSet
03-19-2011, 7:40 PM
You could always go featureless :)

oldsmoboat
03-19-2011, 7:56 PM
OK, I had to check this out.
I went out to the garage and fired up the grinder. I took the little finger on my right hand down to the bone and made a point on it. I am able to depress the bullet button. I am a little concerned that if the skin grows back it may not fit any more. But here's my conundrum:
Since my finger is not attached to the rifle, I am still legal, right?

thrillhouse700
03-19-2011, 8:01 PM
I just tried to put my nephews finger in the electrical outlet. I'm pretty sure the covers are so the kids don't stick toys and what not in the outlets.

hammerhands32
03-19-2011, 8:05 PM
I just tried to put my nephews finger in the electrical outlet. I'm pretty sure the covers are so the kids don't stick toys and what not in the outlets.

LOL, you got me with this one

ArmedLiberal
03-19-2011, 8:05 PM
I love how people are forcing their kid's fingers into things they need to leave alone. Not to mention the self mutilation above....

I've created a monster

toby
03-19-2011, 8:09 PM
I can't find the right kind of smiley guy....

TKM
03-19-2011, 8:22 PM
What makes you think the same silly arguments didn't come up six years ago?

Jonathan Doe
03-19-2011, 8:28 PM
One of the very first things I thought to myself when I purchased a bullet button configured AR-15 from a local gun store was, “Well what happens when somebody comes along with a finger small enough to stick into the bullet button and operate it like a normal magazine release?” Technically, that would make the rifle an assault weapon according to California state law. I have a feeling this one specially endowed finger might ruin the bullet button for all of us. Pretty far-fetched, right? Well, maybe not.



Similar to this already occurred already in San Diego, I believe couple of years ago. The agency had an employee with a long finger nail push the button, and she was able to release the magazine. They classified it as an assault weapon.

ArmedLiberal
03-19-2011, 8:29 PM
Didn't know if it came up before or not. Tried to find that discussion somewhere, but didn't. I'm new to all this, anyhow.

thrillhouse700
03-19-2011, 8:40 PM
don't sweat it, I don't have a nephew it was a joke.

Bentot
03-19-2011, 8:43 PM
I'm inclined to put in stronger springs. Suggestions are welcome.

evidens83
03-19-2011, 8:59 PM
Now I didn't ask anyone to try this with their 1 year old, but oh well it happened. Good to know the fingers didn't fit.

Well technically I didnt. I just had to make an assumption looking at his finger and looking at how ridiculous your hypothetical question was ;):D

Fate
03-19-2011, 9:01 PM
2. If you give a child unsupervised access to a firearm in California you have already broken a law!Quote:
California Gun Safe Requirements
The state of California requires all gun owners to store firearms in a gun safe that meets state Department of Justice requirements. These minimum standards include outfitting the safe with a mechanical or electronic combination lock with at least 10,000 combinations that’s encased in a drill-resistant shell and has interior hinges that can’t be removed from the outside of the safe. Single-walled safes need to be constructed of 12-gauge steel, while multiple-walled cells must have a combined wall width of 0.10 inches. The safe must also be able to fully contain firearms; trigger locks do not meet California requirements.

Baloney. That is not in the penal code at all. eHow for legal advice? Are you kidding me? Here, brush up...

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=12001-13000&file=12020-12040 See P.C. 12035

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=12001-13000&file=12101

shark92651
03-19-2011, 9:06 PM
I think I am going to pour myself another Jack and Coke and move on to another thread...

G1500
03-19-2011, 9:06 PM
I'm inclined to put in stronger springs. Suggestions are welcome.

You could put in stronger springs, or just relax and not be so paranoid.

problemchild
03-19-2011, 9:27 PM
What if I dremel my finger down to fit in the hole?

G1500
03-19-2011, 9:34 PM
What if I dremel my finger down to fit in the hole?

You would successfully be able to plead insanity.

NeoWeird
03-19-2011, 9:42 PM
Guess what, even if something is 100% legal, that doesn't stop you from being arrested or the item confiscated if the arresting agent thinks it is illegal. And guess what, the ATF and DOJ are both notorious for bending the rules to meet their definitions in court. Just look at the frozen MAC front strap ruled as a rigid secondary grip. Also, just because they say one thing doesn't mean they can't do another - that's fact and easily enough seen with how the DOJ handled the removable magazine SKSs or their countless reversals on the original mag locks.

The truth is DAs have already recognized the Bullet Button as a legal option and are not actively trying to challenge it. The Bullet Button is also a production product that meets a QC standard before entering the market. By altering it, even to make it 'more legal' you can actually open yourself up to legal issues as it can be argued that you were aware of a design defect that made it illegal or if your modifications eventually fail or make it fall within the definition of something illegal then you will be responsible and no one else.

This is one of those instances where you should leave good enough alone unless you WANT to rock the boat.

supernachos
03-19-2011, 9:45 PM
To beat a dead horse... I just had to add this. beatdeadhorse5:

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polydactyly

Baconator
03-19-2011, 9:47 PM
What if I dremel my finger down to fit in the hole?

I just pissed my pants.

Anchors
03-19-2011, 10:41 PM
Similar to this already occurred already in San Diego, I believe couple of years ago. The agency had an employee with a long finger nail push the button, and she was able to release the magazine. They classified it as an assault weapon.

I vaguely remember reading about something like this?
Anyone got a link to the CGN thread on it? (Not that I don't believe topgun7, if anyone knows, it's him).

Dreaded Claymore
03-19-2011, 11:44 PM
I have never seen an infant or child with fingers small enough to do this, not even in the pictures of starving, emaciated children in National Geographic. I think some newborns might be able to get their finger into the ground of an electrical outlet, but not the terminals. A Bullet Button hole is smaller than the ground of an electrical outlet.

GettoPhilosopher
03-19-2011, 11:53 PM
It's a Brady conspiracy! They're breeding a child with small fingers so they can outlaw bullet buttons forever! ;D

Anchors
03-20-2011, 12:01 AM
It's a Brady conspiracy! They're breeding a child with small fingers so they can outlaw bullet buttons forever! ;D

And they're working with......THE GOVERNMENT!!!! :TFH::TFH::TFH::TFH:

G1500
03-20-2011, 12:02 AM
I have never seen an infant or child with fingers small enough to do this, not even in the pictures of starving, emaciated children in National Geographic. I think some newborns might be able to get their finger into the ground of an electrical outlet, but not the terminals. A Bullet Button hole is smaller than the ground of an electrical outlet.

On top of that, they would definitely not have the strength to push the release.

If you use their finger to push the button, the baby finger would then be considered "A Tool" lol.

zombiescanlearn
03-20-2011, 12:13 AM
I'm going back to the girlfriends with guns thread!!!

duc748bip
03-20-2011, 12:47 AM
I checked my girl friend's pinky, she has this tiny pinky nail that could potentially grow long enough, and with a little file and trim can fit into the hole of the BB, but its to thin and will bend break if try to depress a BB under mag tension. I guess you can manicure a something that is sturdy enough for tool. But i think that will be considering "wearing a tool" like those funny BB Tool rings. Yeah I seen those, its pretty funny, the guy was shooting an OLL and then switched to a custom bolt rifle, well the "ring tool" put a deep three inch long gash down the side of the fine Walnut stock.

ke6guj
03-20-2011, 12:58 AM
I vaguely remember reading about something like this?
Anyone got a link to the CGN thread on it? (Not that I don't believe topgun7, if anyone knows, it's him).

I recall the incident as well, but don't recall enough specifics to be able to get a good search query.

found it: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=144418&highlight=fingernail

Anchors
03-20-2011, 2:24 AM
It still says just that "she was able to do it with her finger"
HE said "she must have a small finger!"
And then when he sent her a mag, she said she couldn't get it out, but that the "experts" still think it is an AW so it isn't her call even though she said it's good to go.

OT: I really feel bad for that guy. I think my kid would be in boarding school until 18 at that point. Sucks that he had to take the loss on the rifle.

Anchors
03-20-2011, 2:24 AM
It still says just that "she was able to do it with her finger"
HE said "she must have a small finger!"
And then when he sent her a mag, she said she couldn't get it out, but that the "experts" still think it is an AW so it isn't her call even though she said it's good to go.

OT: I really feel bad for that guy. I think my kid would be in boarding school until 18 at that point. Sucks that he had to take the loss on the rifle.
ETA: Follow up thread http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=201098 :(

santacruzstefan
03-20-2011, 3:38 AM
What about a fake finger nail that glued to your index finger that had a little nub designed to fit the BB? Almost like a semi- permanent finger stylus that others have used for the BB.

tankerman
03-20-2011, 4:50 AM
:beatdeadhorse5:
:beatdeadhorse5:
:beatdeadhorse5:
:beatdeadhorse5:

21SF
03-20-2011, 6:47 AM
:rofl2:

I cant believe he wrote that whole paragraph...WoW just wow..

its not april 1st yet buddY!!!!

:rofl2:

21SF
03-20-2011, 6:50 AM
Didn't know if it came up before or not. Tried to find that discussion somewhere, but didn't. I'm new to all this, anyhow.

NUFF SAID

JaeOne3345
03-20-2011, 9:05 AM
Or you can do what more and more people are doing every day and get rid of the BB and have a fully functioning featureless rifle(s).

"But man, that's sooo ugly. My rifle being pretty yet neutered is more important."

:rolleyes:

The Electrician
03-20-2011, 10:24 AM
Alright, Calgunners, I have a question that might make a lot of you not like me very much. But by playing devilís advocate, Iím helping to keep us all on the cutting edge of intelligent discussion. If it makes us play the game smarter so we stay out of trouble, then by all means I must propose this hypothetical.

One of the very first things I thought to myself when I purchased a bullet button configured AR-15 from a local gun store was, ďWell what happens when somebody comes along with a finger small enough to stick into the bullet button and operate it like a normal magazine release?Ē Technically, that would make the rifle an assault weapon according to California state law. I have a feeling this one specially endowed finger might ruin the bullet button for all of us. Pretty far-fetched, right? Well, maybe not.

Now, I know that the bullet button opening is quite small. The hole looks to
be about 6mm in diameter by my measurement. But you know what else is pretty dang small? A childís fingers. I have worked in a day-care center, so I have seen some pretty tiny fingers. If you have little kids, itís a good idea to buy covers for your power outlets, since little kids certainly can and do stick their fingers in the little holes.

Do I believe that children below a certain age/size are capable of releasing a magazine on bullet button equipped AR-15 without any tools? Yes, I do think it is possible. How young does the child need to be exactly? I donít know and I donít want to test my hypothesis for obvious reasons. I certainly hope no one posts a Youtube video demonstrating such an experiment.
So the question is summarized: Does the very fact that children have fingers small enough to fit into the bullet button hole render the bullet button incapable of preventing ALL persons from releasing the magazine without the aid of a tool? Could this argument be made to make bullet button users into possessors of unregistered assault weapons?

I canít be the first person to think this up. If I can think it, so can those in the legal profession.

The question has me bothered. I am considering going featureless with my AR and not looking back.


Legitimate concern? Or do I need to take a chill pill? I really hope to hear some intelligent feedback.

They make the covers for outlet so kids dont stick things like paperclips, forks, ect. in them, not there fingers!!!!

bjl333
03-20-2011, 10:47 AM
:beatdeadhorse5:
:beatdeadhorse5:
:beatdeadhorse5:
:beatdeadhorse5:

Cruel! Very cruel!!! Stop beating the dead horse tankerman .... Cruel!:rolleyes:

supersonic
03-20-2011, 11:43 AM
Where did you find this information? It is not true.

Oh wait, it looks like you found it on eHow.com :rofl:

http://www.ehow.com/list_6726510_gun-safe-regulations.html

If you are referring to the first post you quoted, well it is you who would be mistaken:

California Penal Code Section 12035

(a) As used in this section, the following definitions
apply:
(1) "Locking device" means a device that is designed to prevent
the firearm from functioning and when applied to the firearm, renders
the firearm inoperable.
(2) "Loaded firearm" has the same meaning as set forth in
subdivision (g) of Section 12031.
(3) "Child" means a person under 18 years of age.
(4) "Great bodily injury" has the same meaning as set forth in
Section 12022.7.
(5) "Locked container" has the same meaning as set forth in
subdivision (d) of Section 12026.2.
(b) (1) Except as provided in subdivision (c), a person commits
the crime of "criminal storage of a firearm of the first degree" if
he or she keeps any loaded firearm within any premises that are under
his or her custody or control and he or she knows or reasonably
should know that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm
without the permission of the child's parent or legal guardian and
the child obtains access to the firearm and thereby causes death or
great bodily injury to himself, herself, or any other person.
(2) Except as provided in subdivision (c), a person commits the
crime of "criminal storage of a firearm of the second degree" if he
or she keeps any loaded firearm within any premises that are under
his or her custody or control and he or she knows or reasonably
should know that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm
without the permission of the child's parent or legal guardian and
the child obtains access to the firearm and thereby causes injury,
other than great bodily injury, to himself, herself, or any other
person, or carries the firearm either to a public place or in
violation of Section 417.

rob1105
03-20-2011, 11:52 AM
HOGWASH

steelcore
03-20-2011, 2:02 PM
1) Go featureless.

2) I clearly remember seeing a large spark develop from the electrical socket when I was in 2nd grade because a kid was licking his finger and sticking it in the socket. The protectors aren't meant to prevent fingers from going inside, but objects and liquids.

3) A child isn't typically going to wield an "assault weapon", unload a magazine, and use his/her tiny finger to release the magazine before a responsible person stops this child.

4) If you want to walk the tightrope of felonies, just make a magnetic dowel that fits inside the hole.

CSACANNONEER
03-20-2011, 2:13 PM
Or you can do what more and more people are doing every day and get rid of the BB and have a fully functioning featureless rifle(s).

Uh, in the early days of the OLL movement, featureless was extremely common. So, more and more people have being doing this all along. It's only news to those who's first introduction to OLLs from a shop or gunshow that only wants to deal in fixed mag rifles.

If you are referring to the first post you quoted, well it is you who would be mistaken:

Nope, I think you're confused too. The original quote is 100% wrong. There is no state law requiring all firearms to be locked in a safe. Many people legally keep loaded and unloaded firearms in places where they have reason to believe no children have legal access to them.

supersonic
03-20-2011, 6:16 PM
Nope, I think you're confused too. The original quote is 100% wrong. There is no state law requiring all firearms to be locked in a safe. Many people legally keep loaded and unloaded firearms in places where they have reason to believe no children have legal access to them.

You might want to re-read my post a bit more thoroughly before making such a statement. It is actually you who seems confused about what I was referring to. And it was actually pretty clear, being it only consisted of one sentence with reference to the first quote, which was seemingly called BS upon by the post that followed:

If you give a child unsupervised access to a firearm in California you have already broken a law!

Last I checked, you are guilty of a crime in the state of California if you leave a firearm (or firearms) where children under the age of 17 can gain access to them. Nothing whatsoever was mentioned about anything having to be locked in a safe to be legal. If you are the owner of a firearm which you leave in an area which makes said firearm accessible to a child, you are guilty of a crime. Regardless of what you believe.

Mssr. Elegantť
03-20-2011, 7:36 PM
If you are referring to the first post you quoted, well it is you who would be mistaken:

...Last I checked, you are guilty of a crime in the state of California if you leave a firearm (or firearms) where children under the age of 17 can gain access to them. Nothing whatsoever was mentioned about anything having to be locked in a safe to be legal. If you are the owner of a firearm which you leave in an area which makes said firearm accessible to a child, you are guilty of a crime. Regardless of what you believe.

You are wrong. You even posted the Penal Code section that proves it. You just highlighted parts of some sentences to make it look like the Penal Code agrees with you. The section you posted says that "criminal storage of a firearm" only happens if the child brandishes the firearm illegally or if the child uses the firearm to cause death or injury to himself, herself or any other person. As long as the child doesn't do any of those things then no laws have been broken.

California Penal Code Section 12035

(a) As used in this section, the following definitions
apply:
(1) "Locking device" means a device that is designed to prevent
the firearm from functioning and when applied to the firearm, renders
the firearm inoperable.
(2) "Loaded firearm" has the same meaning as set forth in
subdivision (g) of Section 12031.
(3) "Child" means a person under 18 years of age.
(4) "Great bodily injury" has the same meaning as set forth in
Section 12022.7.
(5) "Locked container" has the same meaning as set forth in
subdivision (d) of Section 12026.2.
(b) (1) Except as provided in subdivision (c), a person commits
the crime of "criminal storage of a firearm of the first degree" if
he or she keeps any loaded firearm within any premises that are under
his or her custody or control and he or she knows or reasonably
should know that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm
without the permission of the child's parent or legal guardian and
the child obtains access to the firearm and thereby causes death or
great bodily injury to himself, herself, or any other person.
(2) Except as provided in subdivision (c), a person commits the
crime of "criminal storage of a firearm of the second degree" if he
or she keeps any loaded firearm within any premises that are under
his or her custody or control and he or she knows or reasonably
should know that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm
without the permission of the child's parent or legal guardian and
the child obtains access to the firearm and thereby causes injury,
other than great bodily injury, to himself, herself, or any other
person, or carries the firearm either to a public place or in
violation of Section 417.

PatriotnMore
03-20-2011, 7:47 PM
You are wrong. You even posted the Penal Code section that proves it. You just highlighted parts of some sentences to make it look like the Penal Code agrees with you. The section you posted says that "criminal storage of a firearm" only happens if the child brandishes the firearm illegally or if the child uses the firearm to cause death or injury to himself, herself or any other person. As long as the child doesn't do any of those things then no laws have been broken.


Correct.

GunzNHoses89
03-20-2011, 7:50 PM
whatthe i dont even...gotta love this place...

supersonic
03-20-2011, 7:52 PM
You are wrong. You even posted the Penal Code section that proves it. You just highlighted parts of some sentences to make it look like the Penal Code agrees with you. The section you posted says that "criminal storage of a firearm" only happens if the child brandishes the firearm illegally or if the child uses the firearm to cause death or injury to himself, herself or any other person. As long as the child doesn't do any of those things then no laws have been broken.

I didn't "highlight" anything to "make it look like the pc agrees with me". That's just an asinine thing to assume or accuse me of. Apparently, I misunderstood something, somewhere, because I could have sworn I have seen a sign in almost every establishment that sells firearms that states something to the effect of "If you leave a firearm unsecured/in a place where a child can get a hold of it, you are guilty of a misdemeanor (felony?) pursuant to P.C.*****.** and are liable for $xxxx fine and/or imprisonment ........etc. Anyway, my bad. So, please chill out & step back a few paces.;)

Actually, this just goes to show how stupid (not to mention BRUTAL) the law actually is: a child has to first get a hold of a negligent adult's weapon (the adult is in the clear at this point) and then discharge the thing, hurting or killing someone (or themselves) BEFORE a crime has been committed. Seems backwardass to me. What if there didn't happen to be a round in the chamber & the child pointed the weapon at someone and....*CLICK*...... No penalty for the adult for not chambering a round before storing it.:rolleyes:

Mssr. Elegantť
03-20-2011, 8:36 PM
...Anyway, my bad. So, please chill out & step back a few paces.;)

Apology accepted. :p

pyro3k2
03-20-2011, 10:13 PM
im surprised this thread as made it this far.

supersonic
03-20-2011, 10:29 PM
Apology accepted. :p

Ummmm.....kay. If that is what you took it as (and that gives you inner comfort & joy), well.......I say knock 'yerself out, even if it's only in your mind!;)

im surprised this thread as made it this far.

I like the Jack and Coke idea.......think I'll follow that lead. Except I think 7&7 is all that's in the pad..:D

SarahKC1987
03-21-2011, 12:18 AM
Great my 4 year old can drop my mags so I can run hot! Sweet.

CSACANNONEER
03-21-2011, 5:22 AM
You might want to re-read my post a bit more thoroughly before making such a statement. It is actually you who seems confused about what I was referring to. And it was actually pretty clear, being it only consisted of one sentence with reference to the first quote, which was seemingly called BS upon by the post that followed:



Last I checked, you are guilty of a crime in the state of California if you leave a firearm (or firearms) where children under the age of 17 can gain access to them. Nothing whatsoever was mentioned about anything having to be locked in a safe to be legal. If you are the owner of a firearm which you leave in an area which makes said firearm accessible to a child, you are guilty of a crime. Regardless of what you believe.

OK, I think we are all trying to argue the same thing differently. The fact is that it is perfectly legal to store a firearm any way you want to in CA. It only becomes a crime IF a minor gains legal but unauthorized access to it and then commits bodily injury with it. If a child breaks into a home a steals a loaded firearm and the owner has no reason to believe that this will happen, has a crime been committed? I say "no."

hawkinpup
03-21-2011, 5:37 AM
Now I've heard of people that have been called a Pindick or needledick would they be able to drop a mag on a bullet button?

tenpercentfirearms
03-21-2011, 6:24 AM
What makes you think the same silly arguments didn't come up six years ago?

Actually the Bullet Button was 4 years ago and they did and I already tested it with a two or three year old. No way was it going to work.

If you can get a infant's finger in there, then I would argue in court your infant is a tool since they certainly can't manipulate the device on their own and therefore you would have to be using them to eject the magazine.

supersonic
03-21-2011, 7:04 AM
OK, I think we are all trying to argue the same thing differently. The fact is that it is perfectly legal to store a firearm any way you want to in CA. It only becomes a crime IF a minor gains legal but unauthorized access to it and then commits bodily injury with it. If a child breaks into a home a steals a loaded firearm and the owner has no reason to believe that this will happen, has a crime been committed? I say "no."

Yeah, I think that sums it up pretty accurately.

Now I've heard of people that have been called a Pindick or needledick would they be able to drop a mag on a bullet button?

Oh my GAWD, now we have people talking about boning their firearms.:rolleyes: I know you love your black rifle, but that is just sick and demented!

I would argue in court your infant is a tool and therefore you would have to be using them to eject the magazine.

That's just.....BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!:rofl2: ....My 7&7 hangover just became more intense. Headed for the medicine cabinet for an ibuprofen/aspirin cocktail.:cool:

hawkinpup
03-21-2011, 8:43 AM
Your right, That is as big a joke as this thread.


Yeah, I think that sums it up pretty accurately.



Oh my GAWD, now we have people talking about boning their firearms.:rolleyes: I know you love your black rifle, but that is just sick and demented!



That's just.....BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!:rofl2: ....My 7&7 hangover just became more intense. Headed for the medicine cabinet for an ibuprofen/aspirin cocktail.:cool:


Your right, That is as big a joke as this thread.