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locosway
03-18-2011, 7:24 AM
I grew up with a .22 semi auto, and I'm not looking to get another rifle that's similar. I have 4 kids, which would be using this in a few years. I myself and my wife would also use it as well.

There was a lady shooting a nice lever action in .17, not sure if it was WMR or the Mach 2. The ballistics of the 17 Mach 2 look nice, and ammo prices aren't bad. So my question is, is there a reason to get a .22LR over a .17 Mach 2?

The .17M2 seems to be good to 175 yards (max), and has better trajectory to 100 yards than a .22LR. The benefit of the .22LR seem to be lower price of ammo and slightly longer max distance.

HotRod9mm
03-18-2011, 7:37 AM
I like the 17HM2 a lot. I just picked up a NIB Savage MKII off GB for $260 shipped. Not the best price but I'm not one to complain. The plastic stock is a bit cheesy but the rifle is very light weight so I think it would be easy for the kids to handle. You can get one of the Boyds TactiCool stocks for when they get older and you want a bit heaver rifle.

JMHO

The seller on GB states he won't ship to CA
Savage MKII (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=220071049) <--- link

:cool:

locosway
03-18-2011, 8:00 AM
I like the 17HM2 a lot. I just picked up a NIB Savage MKII off GB for $260 shipped. Not the best price but I'm not one to complain. The plastic stock is a bit cheesy but the rifle is very light weight so I think it would be easy for the kids to handle. You can get one of the Boyds TactiCool stocks for when they get older and you want a bit heaver rifle.

JMHO

The seller on GB states he won't ship to CA
Savage MKII (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=220071049) <--- link

:cool:

Same rifle from Gallery Of Guns is $239 in my area. I was looking at it because I like Savage. Can you stick iron sights on this?

Bigdaa
03-18-2011, 8:46 AM
22 is simply a natural, in either bolt. lever or semi auto. In my humble opinion, each and every gun owner should have at least two. They are unmatched in versatility, ease of use and economy. They are also the first step in passing down the Great American Past Time to the youngins.

The 17 HM2 is simply a natural offspring of the 22 rimfire. Same platform with higher velocity for better varmint performance, but also greater target performance to boot. I understand that the 17's may be a bit more finicky when it comes to clean chambers, but I have no first hand experience here.

The 22 is going to give you a wide choice of ammo, from bargain basement to ultra match, all out of the same barrel. 17 M2 has much catching up to do, but comes with great projectiles right from the get go.


I hope that this is helpful to you, loco.

sofbak
03-18-2011, 9:43 AM
Can you stick iron sights on this?

Yes, you can:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292161

But is far less expensive to buy a Savage MK II model with the "T" designator, as it comes from the factory with the sights, and is drilled for scope blocks.

HTH

sofbak

jackandblood
03-18-2011, 9:43 AM
well turners has the 22lr plinkster, a bolt action 22lr. for a very decent price. it would be a different experience than the semi. otherwise I'd go with 22 wmr bolt action. from my observations the 22 mag is gaining momentum. more so than the 17 hmr. They have em in a spitzer-esque bullet shape. accuracy is improving as well as velocities and performance at ranges .17 hmr begins to struggle with.

Canucky
03-18-2011, 9:51 AM
http://www.chuckhawks.com/17_M2.htm

375Ranger
03-18-2011, 10:03 AM
I just bought a NIB Savage Mark IIFV yesterday. It's the bull barrel w/plastic stock for $280 otd. I had the 10/22, and like you , wanted something different. Can't go wrong with a bolt-action w/Accutrigger. Cheap to shoot, accurate, and good quality. My .02

ArticleTheFourth
03-18-2011, 10:05 AM
I'd start with a lever action 10/22 like the one below.

http://www.midwesthuntersoutlet.com/DisplayPic.aspx?PIC=116765

When you're ready to go the simi-auto, it's a natural transition to the most popular .22LR on the planet, the Ruger 10/22.

http://www.midwesthuntersoutlet.com/DisplayPic.aspx?PIC=273365

Then, when you're ready for a real gun... :D

azlester
03-18-2011, 11:14 AM
When you're ready to go the simi-auto, it's a natural transition to the most popular .22LR on the planet, the Ruger 10/22.


I hate to break the bad news to you, but the Ruger is not the most popular .22lr on the planet. As of 2010 figures, Ruger 10/22 total production is about 4 million units. The Marlin model 60 is over 6 million. The Ruger still has alot of ground to cover to catch up to be the most popular.


If you want a real lever action 22 look no further then the Marlin 39. A machined steel reciever not alum or plastic. The longest running quality lever 22 in the world! And very accurate out of the box. Not cheap but worth every penny.
For the semi auto look at the Marlin model 60 or the model 795($25 rebate this year and can find on sale for $124 or less). Best value 22 and one of the most accurate 22's out of the box.(no need to spend 100's of dollars to fix the accuracy, mag release, last shot hold open problems of "other" mfg)
For a bolt the Marlin 925 or the Savage make sine and very accurate bolt actions. Very high value at reasonable prices.

locosway
03-18-2011, 11:28 AM
I have my AR, Glock 17 and 20. The 17m2 appeals to me because its more accurate than the 22 and it loses energy faster. Seems ideal for targets to 100 yards and for training new shooters.

azlester
03-18-2011, 12:23 PM
I have my AR, Glock 17 and 20. The 17m2 appeals to me because its more accurate than the 22 and it loses energy faster. Seems ideal for targets to 100 yards and for training new shooters.

Only major drawback to the 17M2 is the cost of ammo.
Even good quality 22 ammo is available at less then $.03 ea. While 17M2 is $.40 to $.45 ea. Hope you have an unlimited shotting budget. My 5.56 ammo costs less.
There are millions of us that have learned to shoot with 22's for more then a few decades. With a good rifle and good ammunition you can shoot very accuratly at 100 yds with 22. But hey, it is your money.

ArticleTheFourth
03-18-2011, 2:09 PM
I hate to break the bad news to you, but the Ruger is not the most popular .22lr on the planet. As of 2010 figures, Ruger 10/22 total production is about 4 million units. The Marlin model 60 is over 6 million. The Ruger still has alot of ground to cover to catch up to be the most popular.


If you want a real lever action 22 look no further then the Marlin 39. A machined steel reciever not alum or plastic. The longest running quality lever 22 in the world! And very accurate out of the box. Not cheap but worth every penny.
For the semi auto look at the Marlin model 60 or the model 795($25 rebate this year and can find on sale for $124 or less). Best value 22 and one of the most accurate 22's out of the box.(no need to spend 100's of dollars to fix the accuracy, mag release, last shot hold open problems of "other" mfg)
For a bolt the Marlin 925 or the Savage make sine and very accurate bolt actions. Very high value at reasonable prices.

I do not have production numbers and you may be correct, but when I look for 22LR accessories , I see mostly Ruger.

I have Marlins for centerfire, but I'm not a fan of tube-fed for rimfire.

The Marlin 795 at $166 (Gallery of Guns) does looks interesting; I generally like box magazine over rotary.

I may have to try this one out:

http://www.galleryofguns.com/prod_images/795.jpg

docsmileyface
03-18-2011, 2:23 PM
My local Big 5 had Marlin 795s on sale for $159, with a $25 rebate.

azlester
03-18-2011, 2:52 PM
Dick's Sporting goods had them on sale for $124.99 less the $25 rebate = $99.99(what I paid 3 weeks ago) Sports Authority puts them on sale all the time at $125 or so. The rebate is good till 12/31/11. One of the absolute best deals out there for an accurate 22. Shooters ridge just released 26 round mags for the 795. Boyd's makes custom stocks for the model 60 from time to time(if you can get them fast enough) that can be easily modified for the 795. Rimfire Technologies makes some charging handles and DIP makes some very nice alum trigger housings and triggers as well as the charging handles for both the model 60 and the model 795. Oh and the model 795 comes standard with sling studs installed.
What other accesories do you need?
I installed a Simmons 22MAG 3-9x32AO scope, a GI M1 cotton sling and got a few extra mags and I am all set. I am doing an Appleseed shoot here in April.(I was temped to do the Tech-Sights, but my eyes aren't like they used to be) From prone I am shooting sub 1 inch groups at 25 meters with CCI SV. From the bench I can cover the 10 round groups with a nickle. You have to love a rifle that shoots like that for about $100!!

locosway
03-18-2011, 5:24 PM
Only major drawback to the 17M2 is the cost of ammo.
Even good quality 22 ammo is available at less then $.03 ea. While 17M2 is $.40 to $.45 ea. Hope you have an unlimited shotting budget. My 5.56 ammo costs less.
There are millions of us that have learned to shoot with 22's for more then a few decades. With a good rifle and good ammunition you can shoot very accuratly at 100 yds with 22. But hey, it is your money.

2000 rounds for $194.95 is no where near .223 prices. In fact, it's half of what I pay for the cheapest .223 ammo that I buy.

ojisan
03-18-2011, 5:54 PM
I hate to break the bad news to you, but the Ruger is not the most popular .22lr on the planet. As of 2010 figures, Ruger 10/22 total production is about 4 million units. The Marlin model 60 is over 6 million. The Ruger still has alot of ground to cover to catch up to be the most popular.

I hate to break the bad news to you, but Ruger has produced over 5 million 10/22s receivers at the Prescott AZ casting plant alone, that opened in the mid 1980s.
They had a celebration about it 10 years ago that was covered by the gun media.
The previous 20 years, the receivers were mostly cast at Ruger's Pinetree casting plant in NH.
Ruger does not release detailed sales figures.
Estimates are at least 10 million and the number can go as high as 15-16 million from several reputable sources....and these numbers were before the Obama buying frenzy started.

Ruger is the top seller .22LR semi-auto.

I believe that Marlin's sales number also include lever, pump and semi autos clip and tube fed models.

azlester
03-18-2011, 7:02 PM
I hate to break the bad news to you, but Ruger has produced over 5 million 10/22s receivers at the Prescott AZ casting plant alone, that opened in the mid 1980s.
They had a celebration about it 10 years ago that was covered by the gun media.
The previous 20 years, the receivers were mostly cast at Ruger's Pinetree casting plant in NH.
Ruger does not release detailed sales figures.
Estimates are at least 10 million and the number can go as high as 15-16 million from several reputable sources....and these numbers were before the Obama buying frenzy started.

Ruger is the top seller .22LR semi-auto.

I believe that Marlin's sales number also include lever, pump and semi autos clip and tube fed models.

Well here are some hard numbers published by Wikipedia on both rifles.
The ruger has sold over 5 million rifles since 1964
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_10/22
Wikipedia also states that the Marlin model 60 has sold over 11 million since 1960(this figure does not include lever, pump and other semi autos as you believe)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlin_Model_60
I would love to see the source for your numbers.
Just because there are more accessories offered for any rifle does not make it the best. It kind of makes me wonder what is wrong with the rifle to begin with that there needs to be that many alternate parts offered for it. I used to own a 10/22 that was mfg in 1973. It was an ok rifle, but the magazines were always a problem, the factory sights were bad at best and the mag release and bolt hold open needed a contortionist to operate. I shot a freinds model 60 and sold my 10/22 the next day. There is no comparison in shootablity, out of the box accuracy and capacity on the standrad rifles.

animal661
03-18-2011, 8:57 PM
buy the marlin - keep it clean and pass it down to your grandson when the time comes
both are very good weapons - I've owned each one but...
Still have my marlin 60

Baconator
03-18-2011, 8:59 PM
Just don't buy a Mossberg plinkster. I've never had so many FTFs in my life as I did on that gun.

Gem1950
03-19-2011, 4:26 AM
Well here are some hard numbers published by Wikipedia on both rifles.
The ruger has sold over 5 million rifles since 1964
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_10/22
Wikipedia also states that the Marlin model 60 has sold over 11 million since 1960(this figure does not include lever, pump and other semi autos as you believe)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlin_Model_60
I would love to see the source for your numbers.
Just because there are more accessories offered for any rifle does not make it the best. It kind of makes me wonder what is wrong with the rifle to begin with that there needs to be that many alternate parts offered for it. I used to own a 10/22 that was mfg in 1973. It was an ok rifle, but the magazines were always a problem, the factory sights were bad at best and the mag release and bolt hold open needed a contortionist to operate. I shot a freinds model 60 and sold my 10/22 the next day. There is no comparison in shootablity, out of the box accuracy and capacity on the standrad rifles.

Ford vs Chevy debate.
Different tack; Which rifle has had more money (collectively) spent on it gussying it up? i.e. - Cult following. The pimp-mobile syndrome.
In that sense, I don't think that the number of aftermarket accessories translates to the 10/22's inherent inaccuracy or unreliability.

redcliff
03-19-2011, 5:40 AM
I do not have production numbers and you may be correct, but when I look for 22LR accessories , I see mostly Ruger.

I have Marlins for centerfire, but I'm not a fan of tube-fed for rimfire.

The Marlin 795 at $166 (Gallery of Guns) does looks interesting; I generally like box magazine over rotary.

I may have to try this one out:

http://www.galleryofguns.com/prod_images/795.jpg

Interesting, in .22lr my preferences are just the opposite; I like tubular magazines (nothing to forget at home) and find rotary magazines more reliable with the rimmed .22lr round than regular box magazines.

I recently dros'd a Winchester 9422 Trapper with checkerred stock; I'm excited to take it out when it gets out of jail. I've wanted one since I was 15 years old :)

ArticleTheFourth
03-19-2011, 5:13 PM
My preference for box magazines comes from shooting the following rifle as winter practice for high power at a particular the indoor range (rimfire only):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/George/22LR/44d018.jpg

This model 44 US from the CMP has an 8 or 15 round box magzine that has an adapter to shoot 22 short as well as 22 LR.

I've gussied up some 10/22 to other family members that already have that rifle and want to make it a target model with bull barrel and bedded stock. I was surprised at how easy and low cost it was to bring a 10/22 receiver up to target level.

http://extremetolerance.com/img/1022-stock-barrel.JPG

iamchrispartida
03-19-2011, 11:47 PM
I like 10/22s, they are a ton of fun. BUT, I own a Winchester Wildcat 22 - Target/Varmint (click for link) (https://www.dpmsguns.com/catalog.php?prod=G525101202)

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/6651/525101ljpgthumbnail0.jpg

I got mine for avout $259 + tax/DROS/etc. then added a Tasco Varmint 2.5-10 x 42 on Leupold rings. Comes with 4 mags (3x 10rds, 1x 5rds), has a .883 bull bbl. The only thing I wish it had was an adjustable trigger like it's Russian brother the TULA TOZ-78.

It's a nail driver, and easily accurate to 100yds - I even split a corrugated gopher in half after 4-5 shots at 100yds when one shot turned it sideways.

Ripon83
03-20-2011, 6:30 AM
22 vs 17....,I'd go with the 22 for family shooting, training, and plinking. If I wanted to hunt squirrel then I'd go 17.

What if you want to add hand guns to the family outing.....22 at that point means you don't need a second ammo.

luckygunner
03-20-2011, 8:53 AM
I prefer the .17 over the .22 but given what you are going to use it for (kids). I would go with the .22. That way they can shoot as much as they can handle and your wallet doesn't suffer.

I have a couple 10/22, Marlin 60 and 3 other .22 rifles. I would say that the best out of the box shooter is the Marlin. The price is hard to beat and I think that reloading a tube while slower is easier than filling up a magazine.

__________________
.22 LR ammo (http://www.luckygunner.com/rimfire/22-lr-ammo)

dangerranger
03-20-2011, 2:19 PM
just an idea, I can pick up 22lr at any walmart, hardware store, gas station, etc that sells ammo. try that with 17HM2. I have a 17HMR, a 17HM2, and more 22s than Id care to admit to. they all have there place. for a hunting round both of the 17s are great but for fun and target shooting 22lr is king! my personal favorite for starting someone new is a bolt or lever 22. DR

Kryptyde
03-21-2011, 12:35 PM
.22 is great for the extremely low cost and availability of ammo.

For a semi-auto .22 its tough to beat a Ruger 10/22. Overall I dont think theres a Marlin that can compete in accuracy and reliability at the same price point. The enormous fan following (and resultant choice of accessories) of the 10/22 is a testament to this. They are fully decent from the factory and when customized properly they can run with the best 22LR guns available ... even Anshutz bolt actions.

Tom-ADC
03-21-2011, 4:07 PM
Going to shoot with kids get a Henry H001.

mincoda
03-22-2011, 12:00 PM
IMHO: For just fun you can't beat a 22 rifle. I won a Ruger 10-22 and just love it. It probably has one of the best magazine feeding systems to date, very dependable. But the Marlin 60 is also one fine 22 also. As far as numbers go Marlin has quite a lead.

There have been more than 5 million Ruger 10/22s sold by Sturm, Ruger, and Co. since 1964, although it is not the best selling .22 rifle in history, that distinction belongs to the Marlin 60, which Marlin claims to have sold over 11 million worldwide since 1960.

But the most important thing is to shoot safe and have fun..:)

shinigami
03-22-2011, 12:36 PM
Marlin 60 all the way, very accurate out of the box, no mods, no changing barrels to make it shoot straight. Grab one or two of the Spee-D- Loader and you're set!

http://www.cabelas.com/magazines-clips-spee-d-loader-3.shtml

pennys dad
03-22-2011, 1:20 PM
Wow, what would be the Hold Over for a .22lr to reach 175 yards?

locosway
03-23-2011, 8:12 PM
just an idea, I can pick up 22lr at any walmart, hardware store, gas station, etc that sells ammo. try that with 17HM2. I have a 17HMR, a 17HM2, and more 22s than Id care to admit to. they all have there place. for a hunting round both of the 17s are great but for fun and target shooting 22lr is king! my personal favorite for starting someone new is a bolt or lever 22. DR

I don't buy ammo at any of those places. I order cases at a time online, it saves me a lot of time and money that way.

Izzy43
03-23-2011, 8:55 PM
Wow, what would be the Hold Over for a .22lr to reach 175 yards?

Feet, not inches. Drops 6" from 50 to 100 yds and then starts dropping like a rock. But hey, that's the fun in it.