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View Full Version : POF P308: Fail!!!


Bobby Hated
03-17-2011, 11:23 AM
i just want to share this story from the range this past sunday. i almost bought one of these rifles, and thank god i got a REPR instead.

i was shooting pala 3 gun and this guy on my squad had a P308 from POF. on the first rifle stage within 6 shots his gun jammed. the firing pin had penetrated the primer and ripped it out of the round and jammed it back in the bolt. it took him about 5-10 minutes to take it apart and pry that thing out of there, then it happened again on the next stage.

i never saw that happen before, but the other guys and him told me he had sent it back to POF 3 or 4 times and it still was doing the same thing! the last time they received it and sent it back a day or two later telling him to only shoot hornady through it. as in, they got it, shot a few mags of hornady through it, did nothing to it, and sent it back. i would be so pissed if i was him, im pissed enough for him to post this story.

i would never buy anything from POF. obvious manufacturing defect malfunction, sent back 3 or 4 times, and they dont even replace it? that is some BS!

djleisure
03-17-2011, 11:26 AM
Sh*tstorm of POF lovers and haters in 3... 2... 1... :hide:

BigNick
03-17-2011, 11:29 AM
I have also seen some problems on the POF 308s and heard some horror sroties about there customer service.

FeuerFrei
03-17-2011, 11:31 AM
Pierced primer?
Usually the "students" are encouraged to bring functional rifles to class.
If the guy has a problem with POF then he should look elsewhere for weapons.

Jpach
03-17-2011, 11:33 AM
I wouldn't count POF out just yet. Your buddy obviously has issues but on the Hide, many many people have very reliable POF 308s. And a few have crappy REPRs.

Sometimes we just get unlucky.

Bobby Hated
03-17-2011, 1:06 PM
yeah well i judge things by the failures not the successes. logic 101.

i havent heard of anyone's REPR failing. happy to hear any stories of anyone who has.

themailman
03-17-2011, 1:10 PM
yeah well i judge things by the failures not the successes. logic 101.

.

Is that how logic works? Must've missed Logic 101 class the other day....

Farva
03-17-2011, 1:14 PM
yeah well i judge things by the failures not the successes. logic 101.


Talk about fail...

lehn20
03-17-2011, 1:15 PM
Both repr and pof are pos IMO:)
Obr or lmt mws is the way to go.........lol

leelaw
03-17-2011, 1:17 PM
yeah well i judge things by the failures not the successes. logic 101.

Logic 101 takes in a lot more than consideration of failures only.

It sounds like a confirmation bias to me, but what do I know, I was awake through my Logic 101 class..... ;)

missiontrails
03-17-2011, 1:48 PM
Both repr and pof are pos IMO:)
Obr or lmt mws is the way to go.........lol

REPR? Uhhhhh, NO. LOL, don't you watch Future Weapons with our buddy Mac?

Rekrab
03-17-2011, 1:51 PM
My dad had a ton of problems with his POF ripping the rims of cases, sent it back to POF and they said there was nothing wrong. Unfortunate because it's a really, really nice gun.

Ryan in SD
03-17-2011, 1:58 PM
POF?

Rekrab
03-17-2011, 2:00 PM
Patriot Ordinance Factory.

Wicked K5
03-17-2011, 2:03 PM
POF?

POF (http://www.pof-usa.com/main.htm)

Ryan in SD
03-17-2011, 2:53 PM
Ah, sounds like an R&D problem, looks good on paper though. Thanks for the link.

Rebellious
03-17-2011, 3:10 PM
I would never buy a POS....oops I meant POF hahahha

I heard they make great paper weights :D

rareair
03-17-2011, 3:38 PM
yeah well i judge things by the failures not the successes. logic 101.

At some point, everything will eventually fail :rolleyes:

I''m sure if I searched enough, I'll find a REPR failure "story"

crazychinaman
03-17-2011, 4:10 PM
Yes, their customer service sucks.The owner Frank is a jerk.And I have talked to him in person,at Shot show ,etc.His older brother John is total opposite. Mine is a 16 barrel .308.It runs only with P-mags. Dpms and cp mags did not work at all. I bought the rifle about four years ago. Had no problems with it at all. Shooots great. He should check the ammo he is using.

Calif Mini
03-17-2011, 4:22 PM
I wished I had personal experience with either of these brand of ARs.

But I don't so my hope is to learn what is the actual cause and if I have this happen, I then can focus on the repair.

I had heard good things about both POF and REPR.

I have not seen a specific post of what would be a possibility for a primer pierce issue.

What can cause this?

Firing pin sticking / dirty bolt or brass restricting movement?
Above maybe coupled with a thin primer skin that is easier to pierce.
Over charged ammo?
To much firing pin protrusion?
Over length firing pin?
Firing pin point sharp or incorrect radius?

Please, someone post the things that cause piercing. As a safety item that can benefit many members here on CG.

Thanks for any thoughts.
Ed

45DAVID1
03-17-2011, 4:24 PM
My POF worked good for me. I'd buy another if I had the money to do so.

mike22ca
03-17-2011, 4:29 PM
I have 2 buddies that both have POFs (1 has a 308, the other has 2 308s and 2-3 ar15s). We did a Frontsight Class last year. They had collectively brought 3 rifles, all 3 had failures. However my home built AR did not :). I will never buy a POF.

Slightly off topic I saw someone mention LMT 308. The buddy with the 4-5 POFs has one of those as well. Nice rifle. He has a SCAR17 as well. Id take the SCAR17 any day over the LMT. Not that they're not both nice rifles, but the SCAR17 is awesome.

mocos
03-17-2011, 5:15 PM
nice thread....read all of it and didn't learn a thing from any of the flaming comments....however.. pierced primers are in my experience a function of ammo that is too hot or possibly using the wrong primer(too thin).....I would rethink it all and go back to the ammo....

my $.02

rareair
03-17-2011, 5:20 PM
Can't write experience with a POF .308, but ZERO problems with my 5.56 model
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s146/RareAirResto/Armory/DSC_2120Large.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s146/RareAirResto/Armory/DSC_2119Large.jpg

solidstate
03-17-2011, 5:26 PM
Pierced primers? Guess we would have to determine if it is an ammo(soft primers?)issue or a firing pin issue(Damaged pin, spring issues). Curious if this happened with multiple types of quality ammo.

I cant comment bad on POF, I have had zero issues with my 5.56, but Ive only put 3,000 rds through it.

Arnelcheeze
03-17-2011, 5:26 PM
have Bob Lee Swagger take a look at it.

rojocorsa
03-17-2011, 5:28 PM
Headspace issues?

rareair
03-17-2011, 7:01 PM
have Bob Lee Swagger take a look at it.

Isn't he just a fictional character created for series of books written by Stephen Hunter?

Sniper3142
03-17-2011, 7:20 PM
Isn't he just a fictional character created for series of books written by Stephen Hunter?

Yes, but "Bob the Nailer" could still have a look at it. ;)

To the OP...
I've heard of people having issues with many rifles (POF, REPR, LMT, etc). One example (or even multiple ones) doesn't mean they are crap or even unreliable. The details of each issue need to be examined to determine the cause (ammo, rifle, maintenance, etc).

meltyman
03-17-2011, 7:43 PM
Isn't he just a fictional character created for series of books written by Stephen Hunter?

'Cause you would need a Micrometer to tell. ;)

pyro3k2
03-17-2011, 7:55 PM
I was having a similar issue in my .308 AR which had a fulton armory upper, turns out the ammo I was using had a lead based primer and was in the 170gr range area. I switched to 150gr ammo of the same manf. and the problem still occured but happend far less. I then switched to german military surplus in the 150gr range and the problem never happened again. I had spoken to other .308 AR users and some have said that it's just something that happens due to the design, im not sure if thats true or not I haven't found too much believable evidence pointing either way other than my first hand experience.

Since he is on your squad could you ask him for the specs of the ammo he was using or if adjusting the gas on his rifle solved his problems later on? As Calif Mini posted above could you keep us updated so this incident can help out other CAgunners.

cantcme
03-17-2011, 8:56 PM
For me it's how the manufacturer handles the deal if there is a problem. How was the service?

FLIGHT762
03-17-2011, 9:06 PM
What can cause this?

Firing pin sticking / dirty bolt or brass restricting movement?
Above maybe coupled with a thin primer skin that is easier to pierce.
Over charged ammo?
To much firing pin protrusion?
Over length firing pin?
Firing pin point sharp or incorrect radius?

Please, someone post the things that cause piercing. As a safety item that can benefit many members here on CG.

Thanks for any thoughts.
Ed

Another cause of pierced primers in an AR platform .308 is an out of spec (too large) firing pin hole in the bolt.

emtnsocali
03-17-2011, 9:17 PM
i love my POF .308.......and the customer service i received was excellent.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e163/emtnsocali/DSC01782.jpg

Hoop
03-17-2011, 11:38 PM
Ammo problem, maybe firing pin protruding too far? I had that happen with some surplus ammo from somewhere (DAG?) that was corrosive and really cheap. Never had that happen with anything else though.

MrPlink
03-18-2011, 12:53 AM
yeah well i judge things by the failures not the successes. logic 101.



thats actually a complete logic fail, but ok...

FeuerFrei
03-18-2011, 10:24 AM
Looks like OP likes to throw rocks at POF and generate a thread that induces an argument for arguments sake.
I didn't read any conclusive data concerning anything like ammo brand/reloads, mags, lube, experience of the owner etc..
I'm out.

themailman
03-18-2011, 10:34 AM
Looks like OP likes to throw rocks at POF and generate a thread that induces an argument for arguments sake.
I didn't read any conclusive data concerning anything like ammo brand/reloads, mags, lube, experience of the owner etc..
I'm out.

Im not a fan of POF, but the OPs post was pure heresay and nothing more. The people who are arguing are just doing what the troll wanted.

thunderbolt
03-18-2011, 11:55 AM
I heard about this kid, who was at this thing, shooting a (insert brand name here) and it straight out blew up on him. I'm not fooling you. It's true. So according to logic 101 all AR-15 rifles are inherently bad and will blow up without warning. 100,000 successes + 1 failure = epic failure!!

I've never seen a firing pin with enough power to spear a primer and rip it out of its pocket. Like others have said it must be an ammo problem. Any chance you heard if he was using factory or hand loads?

The Director
03-18-2011, 2:30 PM
Love my POF .308!

gemini1
03-18-2011, 3:52 PM
From another forum,
http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=264117;topic=26421.90; num_replies=103;sesc=cfb92e9f2d1a87c6abffc9bbe82b4 bad

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee107/ess45/d18ddaa2.jpg

feartheobamagunban
03-22-2011, 5:50 AM
I do not have a 308 On around dec2008 i had placed a order with Patriot Ordnance Factory for two items at $1375.00 each . first item is a (P-415 12x 16") gas piston upper second item is a (P-415 12x 18") gas piston upper the order was placed with the items on a 18 week min back order, the 18" arrived in feb 09 the 16" arrived in aug 09 when the 16" arrived it was not in the configuration i had ordered in dec 2008 i placed a call to Patriot Ordnance Factory and spoke to chris the owners brother so i was told by him . i explained that the item that arrived is not what i had ordered chris told me that is what you get thats all we have now. i was told by chris in previous phone calls that not to worry we are going to honor our orders that were placed before we changed our product. i told chris that the web site shows the items in the configuration i want and that i would take this to small claims court if need be he laughed at me , chris took this as a threat he told me . that was not a threat its is a right that i have as a consumer , to assure that i get what i paid for is that not part of what small claims court is for ? after a calm exchange of conversation chris said to me , return the item to us and we will put the item to your configuration . i sent the item back few weeks later the correct item arrived . only one problem i now then have both items i ordered except they are both 16" - turns out in feb 09 the 16" arrived but was invoiced as the 18" so in aug 09 the 16" arrived and was invoiced as a 16". the invoices show the items are correct one 18" and one 16". the real items are both 16" . i gave chris another call at Patriot Ordnance Factory , i explained the situation it took awhile for him to understand chris said it was my problem that i did not report the wrong invoiced item in feb 09 . i then explained i did not notice anything wrong since i did not have the two to compare side by side to tell any differance like i found in sept 09. i want to return the 16" sent out in aug 09 for a 18" i told chris . he said we do not have any keep the one you have and call every friday till we have one then send it in . this sounded odd so i asked can i send the 16" back and wait how ever long it takes to get the 18" chris said no you can order another one but you will need to wait the 18 plus weeks to get it and it will not come in the configuration you want. i then talked about going to small claims court again . chris then again took this as a threat and responded with we have lawyers to handle that . i said that is fine i just want what i paid for one 16" & one 18" item make it right . he then gave in and said send it back in i cant tell you when you get your item it would be awhile . does it have to be this way chris told me and he also said i am up to something pulling tricks i am not looking for any refund i want the one 16" and one 18" item they have my money and i have two 16" items. Frank, Chris sucks I hope you read this.90947

quick draw mcgraw
03-22-2011, 5:56 AM
Love my POF .308!

+1

Mine is a tack driver and has zero issues!! POF even sent me a free extra charging handle (the first was black anodized and my upper is NP3 coated), extra ambi selector, and extra ambi mag release (for my Nevada excursions).

On the down side, I did have to wait 6 months to get it and I've heard all the horror stories about their terrible customer service.

feartheobamagunban
03-22-2011, 2:39 PM
I do not have a 308 On around dec2008 i had placed a order with Patriot Ordnance Factory for two items at $1375.00 each . first item is a (P-415 12x 16") gas piston upper second item is a (P-415 12x 18") gas piston upper the order was placed with the items on a 18 week min back order, the 18" arrived in feb 09 the 16" arrived in aug 09 when the 16" arrived it was not in the configuration i had ordered in dec 2008 i placed a call to Patriot Ordnance Factory and spoke to chris the owners brother so i was told by him . i explained that the item that arrived is not what i had ordered chris told me that is what you get thats all we have now. i was told by chris in previous phone calls that not to worry we are going to honor our orders that were placed before we changed our product. i told chris that the web site shows the items in the configuration i want and that i would take this to small claims court if need be he laughed at me , chris took this as a threat he told me . that was not a threat its is a right that i have as a consumer , to assure that i get what i paid for is that not part of what small claims court is for ? after a calm exchange of conversation chris said to me , return the item to us and we will put the item to your configuration . i sent the item back few weeks later the correct item arrived . only one problem i now then have both items i ordered except they are both 16" - turns out in feb 09 the 16" arrived but was invoiced as the 18" so in aug 09 the 16" arrived and was invoiced as a 16". the invoices show the items are correct one 18" and one 16". the real items are both 16" . i gave chris another call at Patriot Ordnance Factory , i explained the situation it took awhile for him to understand chris said it was my problem that i did not report the wrong invoiced item in feb 09 . i then explained i did not notice anything wrong since i did not have the two to compare side by side to tell any differance like i found in sept 09. i want to return the 16" sent out in aug 09 for a 18" i told chris . he said we do not have any keep the one you have and call every friday till we have one then send it in . this sounded odd so i asked can i send the 16" back and wait how ever long it takes to get the 18" chris said no you can order another one but you will need to wait the 18 plus weeks to get it and it will not come in the configuration you want. i then talked about going to small claims court again . chris then again took this as a threat and responded with we have lawyers to handle that . i said that is fine i just want what i paid for one 16" & one 18" item make it right . he then gave in and said send it back in i cant tell you when you get your item it would be awhile . does it have to be this way chris told me and he also said i am up to something pulling tricks i am not looking for any refund i want the one 16" and one 18" item they have my money and i have two 16" items. Frank, Chris sucks I hope you read this.90947

Yes, I know that my post needs English 101. This is a rough draft, cut and paste from the complaint I filed with the Arizona Better business Bureau. This is the only copy I could find. Sorry, but I see everyone is getting the message. For the record file a complaint with AZ BBB and POF will help you with your issue. Worked for me but there customer service skills still sucks.

troyJPX
03-28-2011, 8:10 PM
I am sooo screwed then Ive just completed gen3 308 lowers and read so many failures about pof 308...so anyone that recommend another brand of uppers that will works best with my 308 lowers? with out any gunsmithing required, Ive got 4DPMS mags, 3 c-products mags and two magpul for it. I hope they all works what ever complete uppers i will end up using.

Thank you.
Troy