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View Full Version : Browning Buckmark as 1911 trainer?


marklbucla
03-16-2011, 5:55 AM
How well does the Browning Buckmark simulate a 1911 in terms of grip angle, grip size, and trigger? I'm considering alternatives to the .22LR conversion kits.

racky
03-16-2011, 6:34 AM
if you're looking for a 1911 trainer in .22, you should look at the ruger 22/45. you can even use 1911 grips on them.

jackandblood
03-16-2011, 8:14 AM
hopefully gsg will get their 1911 .22 on roster. That would be my choice given it has some of the eccentric 1911 safety features (hand web grip safety, easy to accidentally trip slide safety.) The ruger 22/45 only has the basic grip angle and grip style going on. It doesn't rack the way a 1911 does, the web safety is important to practice (some speed shooters using the thumbs extended straight grip have had concerns about making sure the web safety is fully disengaged). As silly as it sounds, there is a cheap but good quality (taiwan construction, attention to detail) airsoft 1911 springer that has all functioning safeties as a real 1911. It even is fully field stripped via the slide lock pin (which blew my mind as it allows you full access to the internals in seconds, I shimmed up the main spring and slide return spring for moar power!)

http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Airsoft-1911-Pistol-Black/dp/B0006MY8M8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1300288363&sr=8-2

I know for sure the all black version has all the functioning features, I wouldnt know about the two toned or all silver version.

scootergmc
03-16-2011, 3:31 PM
hopefully gsg will get their 1911 .22 on roster. That would be my choice given it has some of the eccentric 1911 safety features (hand web grip safety, easy to accidentally trip slide safety.) The ruger 22/45 only has the basic grip angle and grip style going on. It doesn't rack the way a 1911 does, the web safety is important to practice (some speed shooters using the thumbs extended straight grip have had concerns about making sure the web safety is fully disengaged). As silly as it sounds, there is a cheap but good quality (taiwan construction, attention to detail) airsoft 1911 springer that has all functioning safeties as a real 1911. It even is fully field stripped via the slide lock pin (which blew my mind as it allows you full access to the internals in seconds, I shimmed up the main spring and slide return spring for moar power!)

http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Airsoft-1911-Pistol-Black/dp/B0006MY8M8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1300288363&sr=8-2

I know for sure the all black version has all the functioning features, I wouldnt know about the two toned or all silver version.

So do you own a 22/45 or a 1911, or just airsoft? The grip safety issue isn't really an issue.

How well does the Browning Buckmark simulate a 1911 in terms of grip angle, grip size, and trigger? I'm considering alternatives to the .22LR conversion kits.

OP, the 22/45 is more like a 1911 than anything else in the .22 pistol market, other than a dedicated .22 1911, like a Kimber Rimfire Target/Super, or the GSG. The 22/45 grip angle/size is relatively the same. And yes, the slide racks in a similar fashion, two fingers either on the slide (1911), or the bolt ears (22/45), pull to the rear. The safety, slide and mag releases are also in the same locations, although not exactly the same. IMO, a 22/45 is your best bet. They can usually be found under $300 brand new. Here's a pic comparing the two:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/scootergmc/IMG_20110316_150823.jpg

If you're a Texas resident like your location says, you're obvisouly not limited by the CA list. Therefore, you could get the GSG, Chiappa, American Classic, etc. for a lot cheaper than the Kimbers. Browning is also releasing a 1911 .22lr. I'm not privy to the reliability/quality of any of the pistols I just mentioned. I don't own any of them. I do however own a 22/45, and a few other Ruger MK pistols, and they're dead-balls reliable.

Edit:

As for the Buckmark, it too is similar as the controls are in the same locations. The only thing I don't particularly care for is the recessed area of the slide where the serrations lie. It made it difficult for me to get a good grip on it when charging the gun, which isn't really a problem, I just don't care for it too much. However, they're generally just as reliable and accurate as a 22/45. The only reason I'd get another Buckmark is to build a Tactical Solutions plinker.

Good luck with your decision. I'd handle both and figure out which one you prefer. They're most likely going to perform the same.

jackandblood
03-16-2011, 6:38 PM
i know IPSA competitors use 1911 based pistols with web safety protrusions precisely for that reason, and the airsoft I linked will not fire if the web safety is not pressed down or if the slide safety is accidentally engaged with the lightest touch. Now if you're really preping yourself for instinctive, muscle memory proficiency with a real 1911 those things are important. 22/45 has the grip angle. 22lr and airsoft recoil are both next to nonexistance. So if you're feel like airsoft has no training value, by all means buy the 22/45 you will have to use at the range and prepares you for grip angle... or shoot airsoft in your backyard where you have to rack the slide everytime, giving you a good feel for the slide and the controls and **** it i'm not wasting energy on this subject.

scootergmc
03-16-2011, 7:26 PM
i know IPSA competitors use 1911 based pistols with web safety protrusions precisely for that reason, and the airsoft I linked will not fire if the web safety is not pressed down or if the slide safety is accidentally engaged with the lightest touch. Now if you're really preping yourself for instinctive, muscle memory proficiency with a real 1911 those things are important. 22/45 has the grip angle. 22lr and airsoft recoil are both next to nonexistance. So if you're feel like airsoft has no training value, by all means buy the 22/45 you will have to use at the range and prepares you for grip angle... or shoot airsoft in your backyard where you have to rack the slide everytime, giving you a good feel for the slide and the controls and **** it i'm not wasting energy on this subject.

Again, this issue you're talking about has nothing to do with this thread. It's a non-issue. Any knucklehead can pick up a 1911 and it will go bang. OP asked about grip similarities between a 1911 and Buckmark. What any of this has to do with grip technique, ipsc, or airsoft is beyond me. It's not clear to me but I suspect you've never owned let alone fired any of these guns in question, well maybe the airsoft... carry on.

JaMail
03-16-2011, 8:19 PM
i have the buckmark and the 22/45, had them both for years before i ever shot or owned a 1911.

when i picked up the 1911 and finally bouht one, i was pretty impressed at how similar the angle was.

if your looking for a true trainer, then put some cocobolo grips on the 22/45 and you will get a realllly good feel.

if your really out of state, your crazy for even asking, get one of the nice incredibly cheap 1911 dedicated .22's


id love to be able to buy an ati GSG or even a chiappa.

http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/public/dNAWTbX6AO2WvL54L49Rmpspd_C94Evf7ofnt6P-wDWch4N29EEankDKV7h9SV9jg8u-qAiW3ab9A8dmgnYz53YQ_vR_VFEGTgCqWgO21heZc8se8lCHPH 7eXaa88bwlNr0Hced8-S07UOk54WPG4j4=s120


http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/public/Wt3SN6lq6Tn4xOmJjvuKfttTyR1BRaWdK9r-tGSwTB7bliPcOpLqhLckvh4omtAt8_V1Nk-FtjukYjiUZhuPpVstpvHTRE6RV-0uj_tL3SnGg4HRDWZq23hWttJhTn3q3rkcFISakq1hHaezb_QP G9w=s120

ElvenSoul
03-16-2011, 8:55 PM
J&G sales a conv to 7.62x25..ammo almost as cheap as 22 and with more kick!

jackandblood
03-16-2011, 11:47 PM
as far as i want strangers to know. yep only airsoft and call of duty.

rusty22
03-17-2011, 4:22 PM
makes perfect candiate for a 1911 "trainer" because 1) same grip angle as the 1911 2) controls on the BM are in the same locations as the 1911

there are things you can do to make the buckmark feel more like a 1911...

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd177/rusty22lr/BM_1911_GRIP_LS.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd177/rusty22lr/BUCKMARK_OCT_BARREL_LS_PACH.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd177/rusty22lr/BUCKMARK_W_FULL_RAIL_RED_GRIP_PLATE.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd177/rusty22lr/BUCKMARK_STANDARD_W_TRANS_BLUE_GRIP.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd177/rusty22lr/BUCKMARK_MICRO_NICKEL_W_BLACK_GRIP_.jpg

DaveFJ80
03-17-2011, 4:44 PM
GSG is pretty much the exact same size as the Kimbers. Ergonomics are all the same, except the weight of the gun, recoil spring (pulling back on the slide), and recoil, are much lighter than the Kimber.


http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e51/mugenef8/FIREARMS/GSG_1911/First/3351.jpg

GM4spd
03-18-2011, 7:37 AM
The only REAL feel and weight of the Colt Govt Model 45. Pete

http://www.fototime.com/FF6D3060C34CCBB/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/C3FF8CA1539BEAE/standard.jpg

cindynles
03-18-2011, 8:02 AM
makes perfect candiate for a 1911 "trainer" because 1) same grip angle as the 1911 2) controls on the BM are in the same locations as the 1911

there are things you can do to make the buckmark feel more like a 1911...


Nobody told me this was turing into a Buckmark Picture thread...I want to play too :D

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss20/cindynles/IMG_0012.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss20/cindynles/IMG_0853.jpg

marklbucla
03-18-2011, 8:07 AM
If this is going to turn into a buckmark pic thread, can you overlay the buckmark on top of the 1911 to show how similar the grips and angles are?

racky
03-18-2011, 9:18 AM
If this is going to turn into a buckmark pic thread, can you overlay the buckmark on top of the 1911 to show how similar the grips and angles are?

RUGER PIC THREAD!!!

ask and you shall receive. 22/45 > buckmark

notice the trigger length of pull is the same
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a17/rackycurva/2A%20stuff/DSC_0572.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a17/rackycurva/2A%20stuff/DSC_0571.jpg

the 22/45 is a little bit thinner. bore axis is the same.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a17/rackycurva/2A%20stuff/DSC_0573.jpg

same beaver tail angle
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a17/rackycurva/2A%20stuff/DSC_0574.jpg

EDIT: my 22/45 is the old mark II version. the new ones have replaceable 1911 grips.

marklbucla
03-18-2011, 9:24 AM
^ awesome, thanks!

So how does the trigger compare? Does it feel close enough that it would be a fine substitute, or is it going to feel completely different? Even if it is different, would you say that it's still acceptable as a trainer since pretty much every other similar handgun trigger is going to be worse than the 1911?

racky
03-18-2011, 9:29 AM
no trigger can compare to a finely tuned 1911 but it's an acceptable supplement. everytime i bring out the 1911, the 2244 comes with me. i shoot them as a pair. i normally warm up with the 2245, then go to 1911. when i start flinching bad with the 1911, i shoot the 2245 mid-string to get rid of the flinch. works like a champ. the 2245 has the highest round count of all my guns. i'd probably say it has over 20,000 rounds through it and still running strong.

DaveFJ80
03-18-2011, 9:31 AM
Since I've never shot a Ruger .22, I'm going off from what I see in the pictures. And it looks like the trigger on the Ruger swings back, and does not 'move straight back' like a trigger would on a 1911. Is this a correct assumption?

Therefore, you could replicate the weight on the trigger pull between the Ruger and 1911. But the actual trigger pull feel itself would be completely different (like my Glock and my Kimber... same trigger pull weight, but they still feel completely different in the way they're pulled back).

While size/weight is one of the main factors when training with a gun, I also believe that trigger pull/feel should also be as close as possible on a trainer gun. Otherwise you end up trying to readjust for it on your 1911 or whatever gun you normally shoot.

scootergmc
03-18-2011, 10:25 AM
Yes, the triggers are completely different.

Furncliff
03-18-2011, 9:23 PM
If you want the grip, the weight AND the trigger....


Hi Standard

Victor


http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQBmitLIGaO6nQb9ebsM9OBwBhv6ybPM 241mTHqpu-zcomOIbmnQQ

a1fabweld
03-19-2011, 7:07 AM
I recently bought the Ceiner 22 conversion for one of my 1911's. It works great! Easy install, good accuracy, feeds & ejects reliably as well. I have no regrets buying this conversion. It allows me to shoot my 1911's more regularly now.

Packy14
03-20-2011, 8:43 PM
what triggers are those on the buckmarks,, i really want to change mine!