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View Full Version : Not really getting the idea behind the HP22A


jackandblood
03-11-2011, 12:39 PM
by Phoenix Arms. If its mfg. with materials that cant handle hyper velocity rounds, it's squandering all the advances in primer/propellant tech that allows velocitors, aguila supermax and stingers. If it's a target pistol, why make it so small, why is the base model a 3 " barrel with no purchase for the pinky finger?

I really like how the thing looks, and even with the optional 5" barrel and pinky mag it's very small and a looker.

If it came with interchangeable 4 or 6" barrel, same aesthetics, better alloys, able to handle hot rounds, and without the ironically dangerous safety features..

(having a bunch of redundant safeties just makes it more dangerous at the range, most people will be trying to figure out what does what and in what order while having no muzzle discipline, gun pointed sideways into other lanes)

...it'd be a contender at maybe a ~$230 price point. And with it's good looks I think it would do well.

RickyB
03-11-2011, 1:10 PM
I ordered the Deluxe Rangemaster kit from Woodbury's for $164.00 + shipping. Two days later they told me they were out of 'em-----I kept my order open for three more days, then cancelled it, after doing some research on them. Gonna go with the $250-ish Ruger 22/45 next month instead.....

Izzy43
03-11-2011, 1:17 PM
That pistol is targeted at a specific price point and so its mostly junk from what I have read. Cracking frames. Not many inexpensive pistols are designed for hyper velocity .22 ammo.

Hyper velocity ammo tends to be less accurate out of any .22 when compared to standard velocity. You'll not find any serious target shooters using hyper velocity ammo. If all one has is a .22 pistol for self defense then the hyper velocity ammo might be the round of choice in hollow point form. I don't see a practical use for it otherwise except it makes more noise.

Izzy43
03-11-2011, 1:19 PM
I ordered the Deluxe Rangemaster kit from Woodbury's for $164.00 + shipping. Two days later they told me they were out of 'em-----I kept my order open for three more days, then cancelled it, after doing some research on them. Gonna go with the $250-ish Ruger 22/45 next month instead.....

Smart, very smart. You will not be disappointed and the price difference will fade almost immediately.

Ripon83
03-11-2011, 1:27 PM
Agree its about price point and size. Now I don't know who'd want to keep a gun in their pocket in this day and age, but its about the size...

RickyB
03-11-2011, 1:32 PM
Smart, very smart. You will not be disappointed and the price difference will fade almost immediately.

Yeah, I think you're right. Figuring just the insured postge at least three different times to Ontario for repairs and it'll be a fricken wash......:D

jackandblood
03-11-2011, 2:10 PM
ya thats my point. if its going for target shooting ( i assume that means accuracy) why make it like it's meant for CCW holders? Conversely, why not get quality and materials going so it can do the hot stuff. As as defense weapon, legitimate velocities can be had with the hyper loads out of a still pretty compact 6" barrel, and zero recoil counts for something too.

It's got nice lines and aesthetics. But it fills no niche I can see. Its not a trainer for a higher caliber handgun, its potential as a backup weapon or CCW holder is limited by its pot metal construction, and it's no target pistol, at least not in it's standard 3" bbl no pinky form. I guess in 5" bbl pinky mag it could be a shooter, but given what's said about it's build quality I wonder if it has the accuracy to not become the limiting factor. Otherwise one would get bored of it quick if they are out-shooting it.



That pistol is targeted at a specific price point and so its mostly junk from what I have read. Cracking frames. Not many inexpensive pistols are designed for hyper velocity .22 ammo.

Hyper velocity ammo tends to be less accurate out of any .22 when compared to standard velocity. You'll not find any serious target shooters using hyper velocity ammo. If all one has is a .22 pistol for self defense then the hyper velocity ammo might be the round of choice in hollow point form. I don't see a practical use for it otherwise except it makes more noise.

iareConfusE
03-11-2011, 2:30 PM
It's just a plinking gun, don't over think it. It wasn't meant to serve any particular purpose, despite what their marketing department tells you. It's pot metal to keep the cost down, so that you can buy the gun and not feel guilty about abusing it and breaking it. Honestly, the guilt free aspect of the gun is what makes it attractive to me, no that it serves as a valid CCW option or an accurate target pistol... That's what centerfire handguns are for.

andy75
03-11-2011, 3:39 PM
For the price it is a great gun, It feel solid, heavy in hand. and It is fun to plink. I had my for a while 13 years, so I got my money out of it.

Ibgreezy
03-11-2011, 3:41 PM
I love my HP22, it was inexpensive and cheap to shoot. Ive only got around 300 rounds through it, no problems yet. I wouldnt trust it to stop a bad guy though.

jackandblood
03-11-2011, 4:39 PM
Like the NAA micro revolvers, 22lr. fired accurately, low velocity, may or may not get it done. For both guns I firmly believe in incorporating some form of spring assists folding bayonet.:D My superficial jackassery makes me want one of these in 5"bbl. Turners has some on "sale" but we all know in many cases Turner's "sale" just means they have them in stock and are not really much of a bargain. I haven't explored some of the great shops outside of the Big5 and Turners chain. Any recommendations in the Pomona Area?

Homebrew2
03-11-2011, 4:58 PM
... Not really getting the idea behind the HP22A ...

I can only suggest that you lookup the "Ring of Fire". It made no real diff what the gun, itself, was or wasn't to me, I needed to be a part of the Ring.

Fortunately/unfortunately, after 1k HV rounds it is a coveted possession. Short barrel, short mag, bad right eye ... it hits 12" steel at 85 yards 8/10 times when I can hold it still enough.

I do believe that it was designed and manufactured for a singular purpose and that it is probably pretty well suited for such. :)

joeyant
03-11-2011, 5:06 PM
by Phoenix Arms. If its mfg. with materials that cant handle hyper velocity rounds, it's squandering all the advances in primer/propellant tech that allows velocitors, aguila supermax and stingers. If it's a target pistol, why make it so small, why is the base model a 3 " barrel with no purchase for the pinky finger?

I really like how the thing looks, and even with the optional 5" barrel and pinky mag it's very small and a looker.

If it came with interchangeable 4 or 6" barrel, same aesthetics, better alloys, able to handle hot rounds, and without the ironically dangerous safety features..

(having a bunch of redundant safeties just makes it more dangerous at the range, most people will be trying to figure out what does what and in what order while having no muzzle discipline, gun pointed sideways into other lanes)

...it'd be a contender at maybe a ~$230 price point. And with it's good looks I think it would do well.

Not really getting the idea behind the HP22A

Nor really getting the idea behind people like you who don't own one, never fired one, and yet proceed to ***** and moan about a gun they have ZERO personal knowledge and experience about.

mfg. with materials that cant handle hyper velocity rounds

Do you have a letter from Phoenix Arms authorizing you to use hypervelo rounds? Use them at your own risk! Oh wait, you don't own an HP22. So how would you know? I fire hypervelo rounds from time to time for kicks and never had any misfire. All they do is make a lot of noise but accuracy is like your opinion--worthless.

having a bunch of redundant safeties just makes it more dangerous

It took me less than 5 minutes to snip two small metal edges after removing the grip and the gun behaves just like a 1911 or any other single action auto out there. Even fires with the magazine removed. I can lock the slide in the open position and still eject the magazine. Again, how would you know? That's right. You don't own one. So please leave the expert opinions to people like us who actually own one and enjoy plinking with it.

it'd be a contender at maybe a ~$230 price point

I don't know what world you live in but it is obviously a retailer's wet dream come true. I got mine for 115 bucks. Ordered a 5 inch extra barrel and extra mag with extended lip for 35 bucks. Installed a Hogue Handall grip for 10 bucks.

I really like how the thing looks, and even with the optional 5" barrel and pinky mag it's very small and a looker

About the only thing you said worth repeating.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=89435&stc=1&d=1299895499

Homebrew2
03-11-2011, 5:11 PM
ETA my previous post: http://www.calgunlawyers.com/Davis_&_Associates/The_Ring_of_Fire/The_Ring_of_Fire.html
Read the item "ABOUT “THE RING OF FIRE” LOGO"

jackandblood
03-11-2011, 5:59 PM
wow. anger. I haven't shot one. I want to, I thought they looked awesome ever since I first saw one. Was kinda bummed they dont shoot the hyper velocity rounds. Just cause. I think I was asking questions not criticizing. yep. well, keep on trucking or something.

Not really getting the idea behind the HP22A

Nor really getting the idea behind people like you who don't own one, never fired one, and yet proceed to ***** and moan about a gun they have ZERO personal knowledge and experience about.

mfg. with materials that cant handle hyper velocity rounds

Do you have a letter from Phoenix Arms authorizing you to use hypervelo rounds? Use them at your own risk! Oh wait, you don't own an HP22. So how would you know? I fire hypervelo rounds from time to time for kicks and never had any misfire. All they do is make a lot of noise but accuracy is like your opinion--worthless.

having a bunch of redundant safeties just makes it more dangerous

It took me less than 5 minutes to snip two small metal edges after removing the grip and the gun behaves just like a 1911 or any other single action auto out there. Even fires with the magazine removed. I can lock the slide in the open position and still eject the magazine. Again, how would you know? That's right. You don't own one. So please leave the expert opinions to people like us who actually own one and enjoy plinking with it.

it'd be a contender at maybe a ~$230 price point

I don't know what world you live in but it is obviously a retailer's wet dream come true. I got mine for 115 bucks. Ordered a 5 inch extra barrel and extra mag with extended lip for 35 bucks. Installed a Hogue Handall grip for 10 bucks.

I really like how the thing looks, and even with the optional 5" barrel and pinky mag it's very small and a looker

About the only thing you said worth repeating.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=89435&stc=1&d=1299895499

RickyB
03-11-2011, 6:04 PM
No shytt, Joey, ease the hell up-----they were merely questions and suppositions, not a direct kick to your nutz.

Kryst, for a bunch of 'independant thinking' gun owners, this forum is seemingly rife with estrogen-infested soccer daddys.....

ojisan
03-11-2011, 6:43 PM
Jackandblood has been hacking at the HP22 in quite a few threads.

The "Ring of Fire" story is well worth reading.
You will then understand why the Phoenix name is currently used.
I bought an HP22 just because it was a RoF pistol.

It is over safetied as a poke to Cali, and I am sure that the Phoenix liabilty lawyers love it too.

It's actually a decent shooter for the money.
There are not many truly pocket sized pistols for sale in Cali, this is one.
The longer barrel is better for informal plinking, and it's nice they are cheap and easy to change.

If you start checking, you will find many .22 manufacturers recommend standard velocity ammo only. Some even warn against high velocity ammo, not to mention hyper velocity. The slightly longer Stinger ammo is not good at all in some guns.

I have a bunch of .22s, handguns and rifles, for what it costs, the HP22 is surprisingly good.

Izzy43
03-12-2011, 6:08 AM
If you start checking, you will find many .22 manufacturers recommend standard velocity ammo only. Some even warn against high velocity ammo, not to mention hyper velocity. The slightly longer Stinger ammo is not good at all in some guns.

.

S&W recommends not using Hyper Velocity ammo in the 22A which I have. I expect that ammo would damage my pistol. I have read that Hyper Velocity ammo is recommend for use in bolt action rifles in good condition. I would think it would also be OK for use in a high quality revolver. Stingers present problems for extraction in match chambers.

jackandblood
03-12-2011, 5:14 PM
Would turners price (140) be good? I think it's much and is only "sale price" because of online FFL transfee fees. I want an HP22A, I just got bummed at the info I learned about their low strength materials and rough castings. I still want one, but not at $140 when I hear the 110-130 is the norm.

Jackandblood has been hacking at the HP22 in quite a few threads.

The "Ring of Fire" story is well worth reading.
You will then understand why the Phoenix name is currently used.
I bought an HP22 just because it was a RoF pistol.

It is over safetied as a poke to Cali, and I am sure that the Phoenix liabilty lawyers love it too.

It's actually a decent shooter for the money.
There are not many truly pocket sized pistols for sale in Cali, this is one.
The longer barrel is better for informal plinking, and it's nice they are cheap and easy to change.

If you start checking, you will find many .22 manufacturers recommend standard velocity ammo only. Some even warn against high velocity ammo, not to mention hyper velocity. The slightly longer Stinger ammo is not good at all in some guns.

I have a bunch of .22s, handguns and rifles, for what it costs, the HP22 is surprisingly good.

Homebrew2
03-12-2011, 6:02 PM
S&W recommends not using Hyper Velocity ammo in the 22A ...

Yes. With mine, I figured that the little plastic buffers that they provide are intended to mitigate destruction of the gun.

Homebrew2
03-12-2011, 6:13 PM
Would turners price (140) be good? ...

$140 for the 'range kit' or just the std bbl pistol and std mag? I couldn't find just the std pistol and had to buy the range kit for $150 last year. I wanted the gun, didn't/don't need the kit.

RickyB
03-12-2011, 6:37 PM
$140 for the 'range kit' or just the std bbl pistol and std mag? I couldn't find just the std pistol and had to buy the range kit for $150 last year. I wanted the gun, didn't/don't need the kit.

Like I said earlier, $164.00 plus $25.00 shippimg from Woodbury's. And you can call Miss Wonderful at Phoenix at 909-937-6900 to see when & where their next batch goes to......,

m1a1driver
03-12-2011, 10:49 PM
Look what happened to mine after 1,500 rounds of just plain ol' bulk federal ammo. NO hyper-velocity ammo was fired in this gun AT ALL.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5020/5505702188_b2c1e75cbe_b.jpg
I sent it back last week and i'm waiting for it to get fixed.

RickyB
03-13-2011, 6:16 AM
Look what happened to mine after 1,500 rounds of just plain ol' bulk federal ammo. NO hyper-velocity ammo was fired in this gun AT ALL.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5020/5505702188_b2c1e75cbe_b.jpg
I sent it back last week and i'm waiting for it to get fixed.



I agree that they're good looking little guns but that pic right there just reinforced my decision to find a nice, used Mark II.......

m1a1driver
03-13-2011, 12:29 PM
Yea when it gets fixed I may just sell it, I already have a Sig Mosquito that eats all the bulk ammo I feed it just fine, too bad their magazines are so expensive otherwise i'd have more than 2 mags

Quickdraw Mcgraw
03-18-2011, 11:50 AM
Love my phoenix...it is what it is an it shoot suprisingly well for THAT!

FYI Bulk pack wally world ammo is High velocity ammo. Phoenix "recomends" standard velocity ammo so your gun doesen't crack like that^!!

I run Wally world 100rd Remington target standard velocity thru mine an have had ZERO problems! Also I think Sub-sonic ammo would be even better for this gun if it cycled properly! G-luck and be safe!

Izzy43
03-18-2011, 3:04 PM
Yes. With mine, I figured that the little plastic buffers that they provide are intended to mitigate destruction of the gun.

Hey, you are correct. I went back to the manual and there was no statement concerning use of hypervelocity ammo. Actually thats great news to me as I ordered two bricks of Aguila SuperMax by mistake a few months ago and don't shoot it in my rifles so using it in my 22A is a good way to shoot it up. Thanks for the correction.

cuttman58
03-22-2011, 6:19 PM
remington target shoots great remington subsonic had too many misfires cci stanard velocity is the best and for those of you wanting an hp-22 try haw river outdoors 113 on the website for the 3" barrel version

cuttman58
03-22-2011, 6:21 PM
the nice lady at phoenix arms said they dont reccomend anything over 1150 fps

Tanegashima
03-29-2011, 7:35 AM
The frames are made from caste zinc, just talk to Dave over at Phoenix he's a really good guy and he'll take care of you.

He told me himself not to ever shoot high velocity ammo through it, if that's a problem for you, don't buy the danged thing.

He'll replace the frame for free BTW.