PDA

View Full Version : Liberty Training Rifles?


docsmileyface
03-10-2011, 6:23 PM
So I signed my wife and I up for the April 16-17th class at Chabot (cost a whole $10!). I was intending on bringing our ARs for the shoot but the idea of the Liberty Training Rifles piqued my interest;

Ammunition for the class to feed our ARs would cost roughly $350 - is there any way to set up two LTRs for comparable cost? I do have a Marlin 60 already though I'm not sure how it shoots (it was inhereted and easily the dirtiest weapon I'd ever seen), and I'm not sure if the 60's tube magazine would work during the quals.

Any input is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

Rock6.3
03-10-2011, 7:36 PM
Look at Marlin 795's, add more magazines, sling swivel (1.25"), GI web sling, and tech sights or low power scope.

docsmileyface
03-10-2011, 7:56 PM
Just got back from Big 5 - Marlin 795s were on sale for $159. +$25 rebate. Picked up two, going to look in to Tech Sights. Came out to about as much as 1000 rounds of 5.56 would cost for the rifles. It will be a little more expensive for the add-ons like the sights and magazines but all in all it feels better to drop $350 on two guns then a bunch of rounds that will just end up empty casings ;)

as_rocketman
03-10-2011, 8:28 PM
You can use your Marlin 60 to make a third LTR if you want... My LTR is a Marlin 70 (magazine-fed version of the same rifle). I added Tech Sights to it, removed the stock swivels, drilled new swivel studs, added Uncle Mike's 1-1/4" swivels and a GI M1 sling. Total cost, about $80. That rifle has made several Rifleman scores, in my hands and others.

Bring the AR's too, just in case your LTR's break down or you get to shoot long distance. But it's a good idea to start on .22's for exactly the reason you noted.

docsmileyface
03-11-2011, 8:15 AM
Anybody know where I could find 1 1/4" sling swivels for the Marlin 795?

ccandgc
03-11-2011, 10:30 AM
I got my pair at Turners.....don't know if you have one close by you....but they seem to carry them regularly.

docsmileyface
03-11-2011, 10:38 AM
I think Turners is a SoCal thing - anybody got any clue to where I could find some online? I know the Marlins come with little studs for slings but I'm not really use to .22 type weapons and they don't really look like sling swivels to me.

Bullwinkle
03-11-2011, 11:17 AM
The Marlin 795 comes w/sling swivel studs... you need to add the swivels. MidwayUSA (and most any local retailer in your area, I'm sure) has them. Here's a black set (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=774577). If you prefer silver, you can opt for the regular set (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=331116) (like the black set only in silver) or a Mil-Spec set (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=232446). Then you just need to get a 1.25" GI sling to go with them and you're set.

Edited to add:
Some of the reviewers were dis'ing the Uncle Mike's swivels because they're made in China. One reviewer recommended Talon... so here's a black set (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=156955) and here's a silver set (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=913254). Same price range, so why not? [Well, actually one reviewer said they don't work well with the metal 'J'-hook of a GI sling, so that's a consideration.]

docsmileyface
03-11-2011, 2:44 PM
J-Hook? I'm not familiar with the issue sling having any sort of hooks.

as_rocketman
03-11-2011, 2:45 PM
The "J-Hook" is the clip that attaches to the rear swivel on the old GI M1 sling. I also have a set of Talon swivels on one of my other rifles... no issue with the GI sling here.

You can find them at pretty much any sporting arms retailer -- Bass Pro / Outdoor World usually has them, maybe even a Walmart? Or go on line, obviously. But you might want to try to find them at a good local gunshop first. It's a common item.

docsmileyface
03-11-2011, 4:24 PM
So the slings recommended by Appleseed have hooks to attach them to the swivels? Current issue M16 slings with sliders won't work, or what?

G-forceJunkie
03-11-2011, 6:00 PM
You don't need the hook, it is just to make removing the sling from the rear sling swivel fast and easy. When using the sling, it is only attached to the front stud. The modern quick release sling swivels posted above pretty much make the "hook" obsolete and not needed. Back in the days when the slilng swivles were a non-removable part of the rifle, it ment unthreading it from all the sliders to remove it. Thus, they put a hook on the end to make removal easy.

as_rocketman
03-11-2011, 7:19 PM
So the slings recommended by Appleseed have hooks to attach them to the swivels? Current issue M16 slings with sliders won't work, or what?

Here (http://www.rguns.net/Graphics/GunParts/Rifle/AR15/OD-CottonSling.jpg) is a picture of an M1 sling, with the "J-Hook." The purpose of the hook is so you can clip it on the rear swivel for carrying or Hasty sling, or detach the hook for use as a Loop sling.

You can use any kind of sling you want at Appleseed, with or without a "J-Hook." This is merely one kind that works well, and is very inexpensive.

bobup
03-12-2011, 11:26 AM
Anybody know where I could find 1 1/4" sling swivels for the Marlin 795?

try walmart...I had found some at the Pleasanton store

my family will be at this April Appleseed too....c'ya there
bob

docsmileyface
03-12-2011, 8:24 PM
OK - got 2 Marlin 795s, Tech-Sights for both, 6 extra magazines, Uncle Mikes 1 1/4 inch swivels, and two cotton USGI slings from Applessed - good to go?

G-forceJunkie
03-12-2011, 8:54 PM
Ammo!

docsmileyface
03-12-2011, 9:18 PM
When the 11 day (Big 5's dumb rule) wait is over I'll be picking up a bunch of different rounds to try out in the Marlins to see what they like to eat so I'm not plagued with ammo issues out on the line. Pretty hopeful of shooting for my rifleman, just shot 39/40 on my Army individual weapons qualification and I've been to SDM school and I'd be pissed off if I didn't get a Rifleman patch thanks to el cheapo ammo!!

G-forceJunkie
03-12-2011, 9:31 PM
With the tech sites, pick up a front sight tool, it will make adjustments alot easier. I think they are the 5 pin "A1" front sites, so the more common 4 pin "A2" AR site tools wont work. Don't quote me on this, but that's how I remember it. If you can find the Wolf Match target ammo, give it a try. It shoots groups half the size of any "off the shelf" ammo you can buy from Big 5, Wallmart, etc.

docsmileyface
03-12-2011, 9:37 PM
Do the Marlin tech front sights even adjust? It looked like the elevation was done with the rear sights. Either way, I got a gerber to push the detent down.

as_rocketman
03-13-2011, 10:10 PM
The Marlin Tech Sights I have only adjust in the rear, windage and elevation with positive clicks. You will need some kind of tool to adjust it.

G-forceJunkie
03-13-2011, 10:35 PM
I stand corrected, the 10/22 tech sites use an AR front post...I assumed the Marlin's did as well.

G-Man WC
03-14-2011, 10:24 PM
I orderd a set of Tech Sights for my old Marlin 60 a few months ago and just got around to test driving them. My trial run on Sunday out at the range at 50 yards was more than I could have asked for... All I can say is wow!
It's a vast improvment, night and day from the stock sights.
If you have a Marlin 795 or 60, do yourself a favour and get them.
-g

docsmileyface
03-15-2011, 7:45 PM
Got the Tech Sights for the Marlins in hand today - confirmed that the Marlin Tech front sight posts do not adjust, adjustments are made on the rear sight elevation drum.

Does anybody have any idea how long the Appleseed store takes to ship items? I ordered cotton USGI slings from them last week and have gotten no notice of shipping or anything like that. Hopefully they were in stock, there was nothing saying they were out of stock when I ordered them.

alvfr750
03-15-2011, 9:37 PM
I also ordered my sling for my Marlin 795. If you get your order please let me know. On a side note what do you think of the Tech sights?

ccandgc
03-16-2011, 5:09 AM
I used paypal when I ordered my slings....about a week or so later I got a shipment notification....they showed up a few days later.

docsmileyface
03-16-2011, 7:42 AM
Haven't mounted the Tech sights yet, pick the Marlins up in five more days. No personal opinion of them yet except for I wish they were more like the 10/22 Tech sights with the adjustable front sight post.

as_rocketman
03-16-2011, 8:51 AM
It's a matter of taste. Personally I like the fixed front post. Less to go wrong!

---

The Appleseed Store is just like the rest of the RWVA, run by volunteers. They usually clear all the orders once a week. Shouldn't be any backorder on those items. If you don't hear from them in a few days I can inquire for you.

docsmileyface
03-16-2011, 11:03 AM
Just so use to using the front sight post to zero with the elevation wheel to set distance - guess it really doesn't matter as these guns are going to be used specifically and probably exclusively at 25 meters.

docsmileyface
03-24-2011, 5:57 PM
Took my LTR out to practice - wow, what a fun little gun. Put the finishing touches on it today - gave it a three-color desert paint job (first time painting a gun!) and the sling from Appleseed came today.

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy285/docrock184/DSC01247.jpg

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy285/docrock184/DSC01249.jpg

G-Man WC
03-24-2011, 8:23 PM
Doc, I like the look. -g

bobup
03-25-2011, 1:40 PM
Now I will know who you are on the line before you know me......course I will stick out with having my wife AND 2 sons with me....hee hee

gonna be a fun weekend

docsmileyface
03-25-2011, 2:45 PM
Ironically, the camouflage will make me easier to spot out. I always wanted to paint a gun but was afraid of messing up on an expensive rifle. Being as this entire gun cost less than a flashlight or buttstock or other accessory on my other guns I figured it'd be good to practice on. It was originally painted woodland with dark green but then I decided to see if I could make a DCU scheme. I like the three color desert so far, though I wish I did a better job on some of the stencils.

Mezcalfud
03-27-2011, 10:42 AM
Turners has the Marlin on sale for 135 + 25 rebate. I might have to pick one up!

DRM6000
03-28-2011, 12:16 PM
how accurate are the marlins? are they accurate enough to perform well in appleseed events?

ccandgc
03-28-2011, 12:28 PM
The guy next to us this past weekend shot a 210 with a Marlin. It wasn't stock, but he did it.

Dr Rockso
03-28-2011, 12:55 PM
You can get dovetail blanks (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=383424&cm_mmc=Froogle-_-Gunsmithing%20-%20Gun%20Sights%20(Metallic)-_-PriceCompListing-_-383424) to slip into the slot for the stock rear sights. Mostly to protect the slot from getting too dinged up (in case you ever want to go back to stock sights or sell your barrel), but it also looks better IMO.

Rock6.3
03-28-2011, 1:03 PM
how accurate are the marlins? are they accurate enough to perform well in appleseed events?


They are more than sufficient for an Appleseed if the nut behind the trigger does its job.

Eljay
03-28-2011, 3:34 PM
how accurate are the marlins? are they accurate enough to perform well in appleseed events?

I don't know a thing about Marlins, frankly. But one thing to keep in mind is that there are four stages (standing, sitting, fastish prone, and slow fire prone). They use these scaled targets corresponding to 100, 200, 300, 400... yards, meters? I'll say yards. Anyway, point being the larger targets are just huge compared to the smaller ones. So even if you had a rifle and ammo combination that was really marginal for the 400 yard targets, and if a really good shooter could just barely score well... on those larger targets it just gets better and better. Standing in particular it's really *all* about the shooter.

as_rocketman
03-28-2011, 10:08 PM
Marlins are, if anything, slightly more accurate out-of-the-box than Ruger 10/22's.

Either one will be more than adequate for Appleseed. We do recommend you get set up with a proper sling, get spare magazines, and think about improving the sights. But which flavor of rifle you bring is entirely up to you.

Our standard of performance is to shoot 4 minute-of-angle groups consistently. Just about any decent quality rifle can do that with factory ammunition unless something is loose or broken. It's all about improving the shooter -- less than 10% of shooters can meet this standard.

When selecting a rifle, you should spend at least as much time thinking about how it fits you, how instinctive it feels, and how much you like it (translates into how much you'll want to practice!) as you do thinking about its accuracy. Our forefathers were capable of some truly astonishing feats of marksmanship with extremely crude rifled muskets and homemade ammunition. It's not about the rifle, it's about the Rifleman. :D

BlueDog333
04-04-2011, 3:42 AM
Which Appleseed coming up on the April 16-17 weekend will you be going to rocketman if any at all? Since they're both on the same date I'm leaning towards the Corona one. It's a little farther for me but they have free camping. But how does that range stack up to the Azusa range? Azusa has a very large size range with onsite burger joint by the office. I'm not sure if they installed running water yet for the port-o potties but I know they are planning on it. If I go to the Azusa Appleseed I'll probably end up going to my uncles place in Azusa to spend the night.

Also I need a few tips on what to get for my Ruger 10/22 LTR. I'm definitely getting the Tech-Sights, GI sling probably a cotton one, and I already have studs and swing swivels that I'm pretty sure are 1 1/4". Is the TSR200 tech-sight a better choice for $10 more then the TSR100?

For misc mods here's the list.

One of these Tactical Solutions v-block barrel droop eliminatiors

http://www.tacticalsol.com/products/22-lr-conversions?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=219&category_id=18

And one of these Tony Kid bolt buffers

http://coolguyguns.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=1

Will both of these help accuracy at least a little or will I be just wasting $?

Lots of questions I need help with since I have to order all this stuff in the next few days. Anybody with any knowledge please feel free to comment on my LTR build, thanks all.

docsmileyface
04-04-2011, 8:39 AM
If your going to get a sling from the Appleseed store you better order soon - they're really busy this time of year so its about a 10 day wait before they ship.

http://cgi.ebay.com/M1-Garand-WEB-SLING-GREEN-1903-1903A3-Best-/110637366145?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c2803b81

These guys have the same sling as well, they ship the next day. I think its 50% cotton 50% nylon.

BlueDog333
04-04-2011, 6:39 PM
If your going to get a sling from the Appleseed store you better order soon - they're really busy this time of year so its about a 10 day wait before they ship.

http://cgi.ebay.com/M1-Garand-WEB-SLING-GREEN-1903-1903A3-Best-/110637366145?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c2803b81

These guys have the same sling as well, they ship the next day. I think its 50% cotton 50% nylon.

Thanks, he even has it in the black color I want.

ElvenSoul
04-04-2011, 6:41 PM
Sarco used to have the old gi slings to

Eljay
04-04-2011, 6:59 PM
Fulton Armory sells nice ones.

http://fulton-armory.com/slingwebnewblack.aspx

Given the warnings on the AppleSeed store about their ship times I definitely would be looking at Fulton or other vendor for the mid-April Appleseeds.

as_rocketman
04-04-2011, 7:07 PM
Which Appleseed coming up on the April 16-17 weekend will you be going to rocketman if any at all? Since they're both on the same date I'm leaning towards the Corona one. It's a little farther for me but they have free camping. But how does that range stack up to the Azusa range? Azusa has a very large size range with onsite burger joint by the office. I'm not sure if they installed running water yet for the port-o potties but I know they are planning on it.

I'll be Shoot Boss at Azusa. Corona will be run by my friend Mike (CSHR).

Facilities are about the same. At Raahauge's (Corona) you'll be to the right of the Cowboy folks on your own line. At Burro Canyon we'll probably be at East 1. Andy Gumps, no running water, no cover except that which we bring with us. Corona has camping, but its range fees are a bit higher.

You'll want to bring a lunch, otherwise you'll miss history.

Is the TSR200 tech-sight a better choice for $10 more then the TSR100?

Up to you. I prefer to adjust elevation at the rear sight.

For misc mods here's the list.

One of these Tactical Solutions v-block barrel droop eliminatiors

http://www.tacticalsol.com/products/22-lr-conversions?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=219&category_id=18

And one of these Tony Kid bolt buffers

http://coolguyguns.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=1

Will both of these help accuracy at least a little or will I be just wasting $?

You're very unlikely to see any practical accuracy improvement here, unless your rifle is actually defective and these tweaks fix it. The most inaccurate piece of the system by far is the shooter, with ammunition in distant second place.

If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, pick up some extra magazines (4 or 5 is a good number). After that I'd think about fitting a quick magazine release and work on getting the stock to fit you better.

Hope that helps!

Eljay
04-06-2011, 8:36 PM
The bolt buffers aren't even intended to help accuracy, incidentally. They remove the annoying clank sound when the metal bolt hits the stop at the back of its travel, which theoretically also removes a source of wear. There's something to be said for one, but don't feel like you have to have one.

cmichini
04-07-2011, 12:40 PM
I'm still hoping to make Chabot on the 16th/17th. I just took a new job that requires a move out of CA by the end of the month, so my free hours are now calculated in fractions.

If I can't make it I'm still going to try to get a nephew/niece out there so I am moving forward with the LTR work up.

Recently picked up a couple of used wood stocks from a fellow CG'er for the 10/22's (want to keep the nice ones nice), got the sling hardware in the mail the other day and finally had a chance to get them put together.

One will likely be scoped, the other will get tech sights (received, to be installed this weekend).

The kids will get the choice of a 10/22 with scope, irons or the Anschutz 164 sporter with scope. I'll take what is left.

Here are a few LTR stock prep photos for folks that love anykind of shooting porn:

Stocks all prepped up:
http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/cmichini/DSCN6415.jpg?t=1302208063

Forward swivels
http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/cmichini/DSCN6416.jpg?t=1302208132

Rear swivels. Ssorry for blurred pic - it looked when I took it (without my glasses).
http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/cmichini/DSCN6418.jpg?t=1302208258

pennys dad
04-07-2011, 4:02 PM
cmichini: Nice job! they look good.

easy
04-07-2011, 5:19 PM
Add one of these to the forward end of your sling, quick detach at both ends.$2.25

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=408900&filter=408900+-+Sling+Hook%2c+1-3%2f8&catid=0

Eljay
04-07-2011, 6:11 PM
The swivels he has quick disconnect - you push the screw thing in and the whole thing opens up. That's why there's an extra seam.

They look good, by the way.

cmichini
04-08-2011, 8:00 AM
Thanks for the encouragement. I'll post some pix of everybody when they're all put together.

Kestryll
04-08-2011, 8:26 AM
Well, the pictures and talk got me interested in building a pure LTR.
I have a modified 10/22 and a 795 with red dot sight but neither is really an LTR.

Soo...

I bought another 795 from Turners, ordered the Tech Sights, sling, swivels, 3 extra mags, dovetail slot filler and because I really liked the picture on the Tech Sight web site I ordered a wood stock from Numrich.

I would have been fine with my current 795 but hey, can you ever have enough fun little .22 rifles? :D

Rock6.3
04-08-2011, 8:53 AM
Well, the pictures and talk got me interested in building a pure LTR.
I have a modified 10/22 and a 795 with red dot sight but neither is really an LTR.

Soo...

I bought another 795 from Turners, ordered the Tech Sights, sling, swivels, 3 extra mags, dovetail slot filler and because I really liked the picture on the Tech Sight web site I ordered a wood stock from Numrich.

I would have been fine with my current 795 but hey, can you ever have enough fun little .22 rifles? :D

Congratulations on the LTR build. When will it appear at an Appleseed?

pennys dad
04-08-2011, 8:55 AM
Well, the pictures and talk got me interested in building a pure LTR.
I have a modified 10/22 and a 795 with red dot sight but neither is really an LTR.

Can I interest you in some 22lr candy little Calgunner :coolgleamA: :devil2:

Soo...

I bought another 795 from Turners, ordered the Tech Sights, sling, swivels, 3 extra mags, dovetail slot filler and because I really liked the picture on the Tech Sight web site I ordered a wood stock from Numrich.

I would have been fine with my current 795 but hey, can you ever have enough fun little .22 rifles? :D U can never have enough fun

795 porn: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=397862&highlight=795

BlueDog333
04-09-2011, 6:04 PM
Fulton Armory sells nice ones.

http://fulton-armory.com/slingwebnewblack.aspx

Given the warnings on the AppleSeed store about their ship times I definitely would be looking at Fulton or other vendor for the mid-April Appleseeds.

Do you know if they are 1 1/4"?

Eljay
04-10-2011, 7:12 PM
Yep, the standard 1 1/4" sling. It's kind of crazy that the slings that come on a lot of suitable rifles are only 1" but it's easy enough to swap them out.

Quickdraw Mcgraw
04-28-2011, 1:43 PM
MAN...wish there was some Appleseed shoots in Nor-cal:nopity:. Closest ones are in Sac...an its really hot there this time of year. Makin me jelous having fun with all those nice rifles...here I jus go shoot in the yard on yer free targets...they say I might be a rifleman! :hide:

Rock6.3
04-28-2011, 2:11 PM
MAN...wish there was some Appleseed shoots in Nor-cal:nopity:. Closest ones are in Sac...an its really hot there this time of year. Makin me jelous having fun with all those nice rifles...here I jus go shoot in the yard on yer free targets...they say I might be a rifleman! :hide:

NorCal Appleseeds you say? Red Bluff, California May 14-15, 2011!

http://appleseedinfo.org/search-states.php

BlueDog333
04-29-2011, 4:59 PM
Yep, the standard 1 1/4" sling. It's kind of crazy that the slings that come on a lot of suitable rifles are only 1" but it's easy enough to swap them out.

This sling is great. It's perfect and feels comfortable on the arm when shooting and when just carrying it. The black one goes with my rifles better then a green one would also.

Eljay
04-29-2011, 7:49 PM
I'm glad you like it!