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View Full Version : Girlfriend wants to get into competition! How should I modify the Buckmark for her?


Quinc
03-10-2011, 7:18 AM
I have a Buckmark that she likes, but then the guy next to us offered for her to use his custom Ruger bullseye gun with hair trigger, target grips, green fiber optic sight, and who knows what else. Now she wants one..

I would like to modify the Buckmark to be more accurate, and wanted to know if it would be worth getting a new barrel 7.25"? Or having any other work done to it? I would at least like to get her some pink target grips if anyone knows of any?

She has been shooting maybe 4-5 times in her life and within those 4-5 times has probably put a total of 250rds through the Buckmark. (her favorite is the Mosin) Below are her targets at 50ft. (Trying to hit the X in the middle with every shot)

http://calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=89208&d=1299773310

http://calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=89209&d=1299773322

only10x
03-10-2011, 9:05 AM
I think the pistol has alot more to give so I wouldnt suggest you put any more money into it besides the pink grips or something else she would like to personalize it.
Alot of times people feel the need to dump alot of unnecessary money into a rifle or pistol thinking it should/have to improve their shooting somehow when in reality their equipment is more than capable of knocking out 10s & X's every day of the week.
Buying the expensive gear only raises the expectation of the equipment without usually expecting more from the shooter, when the two fail to meet it tends to a counter productive effect on the shooter and his willingness to train harder/smarter.
just my .02

Quinc
03-10-2011, 9:43 AM
I think the pistol has alot more to give so I wouldnt suggest you put any more money into it besides the pink grips or something else she would like to personalize it.
Alot of times people feel the need to dump alot of unnecessary money into a rifle or pistol thinking it should/have to improve their shooting somehow when in reality their equipment is more than capable of knocking out 10s & X's every day of the week.
Buying the expensive gear only raises the expectation of the equipment without usually expecting more from the shooter, when the two fail to meet it tends to a counter productive effect on the shooter and his willingness to train harder/smarter.
just my .02

Good point! I will start with the pink grips so she feels its hers, and maybe a fiber optic sight.

Great Sig btw! when is episode 2 coming out!?

Quickdraw Mcgraw
03-10-2011, 12:19 PM
I vote for a Tactical Soloutions Trail lite 5.5 or 7.25 those babys are sexy! plus they make the gun lighter for her to hold out there during competition. They are $$ but if ya want a custom look get the threaded an throw on a comp!!!!

If i ever find $300 in my couch thats exactly what I'd do to my buckmark!

Quinc
03-10-2011, 12:46 PM
I vote for a Tactical Soloutions Trail lite 5.5 or 7.25 those babys are sexy! plus they make the gun lighter for her to hold out there during competition. They are $$ but if ya want a custom look get the threaded an throw on a comp!!!!

If i ever find $300 in my couch thats exactly what I'd do to my buckmark!

I was just looking those! Know where I can pick one up with pink fluting? G/F saw another girl with a pink gun and now she wants pink and black gun. :o

Edit: what would be better the 7.25" barrel or a 5.5" with the comp?

Here is a picture of lunde's
:drool5:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=91035
http://lundestudio.com/photos/buckmark-tacsol-left-full.jpg

caldude
03-10-2011, 1:56 PM
The first upgrade I'd do it mount a reflex red dot sight - that will tighten up her groups for sure. Also, on the Buckmarks you can do the 'Heggis flip' as a no cost way of lightening the trigger pull.

wu_dot_com
03-10-2011, 3:00 PM
here is my 2 cents.

first of all, if she is serous in getting into bulls eye instead of just plinking. bite the bullet and get something good. the reason being that when you train with a none target gun, you wont know if your shots were off due to the gun or your skill. if you have a good target gun, than you know your shots were off due to your kill rather than the gun. thus you will know exactly where to adjust and improve your shooting technique.

also, though master level guys can shoot good scores with none target guns, but their scores will never reach the level of a dedicated target gun. (people have tired it before, cant find the article right now.) so in essence, there is no substitute for good equipment.

judging from your gf only have shot 250 rds so far, i think this might be a phase rather than an actual goal. i would advise you to do nothing so you dont waste your money.

buckmark tend to have less accessory when it comes to modification. so a MK2 or 3 is a better choice.

next, you should pick 5.5 bull barrel. dont go with 7.25. the barrel is too long, it throws the balance off making it top/ front heavy. keep in mind that bullseye shooting is 1 hand, free standing. so with all that weight hanging in front would make you fatigue quicker. the advantage of the 7.25 is the longer sight radius when you use iron sight. however, depends on which competition you go, there may be length limits. also, the advantage is taken away when you use optics.

i would recommend against adding fiber optic and red dot for beginner training. the reason being that the most important fundamental in accuracy shooting is the shooters ability to pull the trigger straight back w/o disturbing the sight alignment. since a red dot only have 1 point of focus, you will only pick up movements from your arms natural arc of motion. meanwhile, fiber optic is typically round, so you wont be able to accurately determine the for-aft movement of the barrel during your trigger pull. the bottom line, use adjustable partridge iron to build your fundamentals.

once you have selected the gun, you must do a trigger job. clean the trigger to 2.0 lb pull (any lower is not allow in most matches). with zero slacks and near zero over travel. the trigger needs to be a roll off instead of a crisp break. this is so that you will developed a smooth pull rather than abrupt stop.

another important aspect is the grip. an anatomic grip will help you with consistent grip reach and every time when you grab the pistol. it will also offset the pivot point during recoil so you will get better follow through. at this point, buying a anatomic grip would not be a good investment becuase you guys probably are not at the skill level to notice the difference.

clarkcustom have some good modification selection.

wu_dot_com
03-10-2011, 3:15 PM
also dont spend your money on the TS barrels. it will be a waste of money as well. those barrels are more accurate than your OEM barrels, however, those are accuracy tested using match ammo, while on a bench rest. in practice, your arm's natural arc of movements will be well beyond the accuracy potential of the barrels. what i mean by that is it will be physically impossible for you to truly take advantage of the barrel under practical situation. plus those match barrels typically have tighter chambers, which will make the gun more picky when it comes to its ammo selection.

wu_dot_com
03-10-2011, 3:36 PM
The first upgrade I'd do it mount a reflex red dot sight - that will tighten up her groups for sure.

no it wont.

judging form the target she needs to work on her breathing as well as her concentration on focusing on the front sight.

the first target shows that she is a lest capable of doing consistent trigger control while she's in the zone (the 3/2 side by side shots). however, the remaining shots shows a break in the concentration or muscle fatigue.

from the second target it tells me that she is breaking some shots w/o setting into her minimum arc of movements. perhaps is the breathing that thorws off her shots outside of the 9 ring.

i think what happen there on the first target was that during the 3/2 close group. she found the right form. what she needs to do is duplicate the form and shifting the entire body (foot position) so her natural point of aim lines up with the bullseye.

also judging from the 2 flyers from second target. if those were intentional shots, she needs to work on her follow through.

wu_dot_com
03-10-2011, 3:49 PM
BTW depends on how tall she is relative to the target hight, a MK is easier for her to lock her wrist than buckmark.

if she wants to shoot buckmark, than she needs to significantly strengthen her wrist. the same goes with 22/45

Quinc
03-10-2011, 5:01 PM
Great info wu_dot! Shes not comfortable shooting with both eyes open so I think having the one closed was causing fatigue. I am going to try covering one side of her glasses with tape and take her back out. For the weak wrist I will have to get her using my Gyro ball.
http://www.rei.com/pix/common/pixel.gif
You wouldn't happen to know of any videos or reading material I could send her way to help with shooting would you?

Edit: My bad on the bulls eye she will be using both hands.

Steyrlp10
03-10-2011, 5:15 PM
Congrats on her interest in Bullseye. As a female competitor, I'm happy to see more gals on the line. Can't let you guys have all the fun! Wait until she shoots a 2700!

wu_dot_com
03-10-2011, 8:40 PM
Great info wu_dot! Shes not comfortable shooting with both eyes open so I think having the one closed was causing fatigue. I am going to try covering one side of her glasses with tape and take her back out. For the weak wrist I will have to get her using my Gyro ball.
http://www.rei.com/pix/common/pixel.gif
You wouldn't happen to know of any videos or reading material I could send her way to help with shooting would you?

Edit: My bad on the bulls eye she will be using both hands.

if you are going to tape up her glasses, make sure you use semi transparent scotch tape rather than black out tape. the reason behind it is so both eye will receive the same amount of light. if one eye receives less light than the other, the pupil of your none cover eye will start dilating. when that happen, your sight picture will be bluer and you will start squinting or fatiguing. using fog tape allows the same light transmitting w/o giving your cover eye an useful picture, this way, your brain will only process the picture of your none cover eye and the pupil of your none covers eye will not dilate.

here is the army marksmen manual. http://www.bullseyepistol.com/amucover.htm have her read it cover to cover to get the fundamentals.

one shes done, go venture your way onto targettalk form. there are lots of information to read with regards to training and technique.

BTW, from my understanding, only 1 hand is allow for bulls eye. so if she really wants to shoot bullseye, she have to start training with 1 hand.

if she only like to shoot with 2 hands, perhaps steel challenge is a game thats more suitable for her.

wu_dot_com
03-10-2011, 8:55 PM
also, keep in mind that mastering each fundamental skills independently that goes in to accurate bullseye shooting is not that hard. what makes it hard is when you start trying to synchronize all the fundamental together in one fluid motions / decisions.

it will take lots of practice to make each shot pure muscle memory.

your first major milestone in bullseye shooting is not your ability to hit the bullseye, but rather your ability to call your shots. i.e. shoot with precision.

you can only be precise if you execute your fundamentals perfectly. once you are precise, then you can start fine tuning in your shooting processes to make yourself accurate.

BamBam-31
03-11-2011, 1:42 AM
WDC gave some really good advice. I would have to differ on a few points regarding the TacSol barrels, however. Being the owner of a 7.25" TS barrel, the additional weight is a non-issue. It's made mainly of aluminum with a steel barrel insert, so don't worry about it being nose-heavy. The OEM 5.5" barrel is heavier overall. If anything, the TS barrel may be too light for serious bullseye shooting--if you take a gander at what those guys shoot, they add weight to their elongated barrels (for stability and recoil control, I'd wager). IOW, unless the additional length will be an issue (wont fit in pistol case, for example), get the longer barrel for the longer sight radius. I would also have to say that accuracy of my TS barrel was pretty much on a par with the OEM barrel. That is not to say that the TS is bad, it's just that the stock barrels on Buckmarks (and Rugers) are really, really good. You have to be a fairly accurate shooter shooting match grade ammo to really see a difference. Simply switching to better ammo (CCI Pistol Match, Wolf Target) will tighten up groups out of an OEM barrel. Lastly, my TS barrel is not finicky in the least. I shoot mainly Federal bulk, but it has digested Wolf, Centurion, CCI, and Remington with nary a problem. I'll get the occasional dud, but that comes with the territory when shooting .22lr's.

Seeing as how the TS barrels are now over $200, I'd say just stick with the stock set-up for the time being. Your GF sounds like she's having FUN, and that's what you should focus on right now. Slap a red dot on the Buckmark, maybe invest in some red TS grips to personalize it a bit, and see where that goes. She can get a lot of training in the basics simply plinking with that set-up. If she keeps it up and really does want to get into bullseye, invest in something like a S&W M41. Do stay away from fiber optic sights, however. They're made for fast target acquisition more than precise shooting. For accuracy, you want plain black sights. The red dot will make it easier for her to shoot tight groups initially (as you no longer have to struggle with focusing on the front sight), but learning how to shoot with irons is essential and should not be overlooked.

I've read the Army Pistol Marksmanship Unit's manual, and much of my shooting is based around the techniques they teach. Big +1 for reading it, although it can get a bit technical. It covers the fundamentals (grip, stance, sight picture, trigger control, breathing, etc.) as well as anything else I've read.

My two cents, anyways. :)