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winetoad
03-09-2011, 5:50 PM
Is the ATI GSG 22lr model 1911 a legal Calif gun? If not will it be soon? Like the new Browning model, but seems like a pricey gun.

Quiet
03-09-2011, 6:00 PM
The ATI/GSG 1911 .22LR pistol is not CA legal, due to it being an assault weapon.

The ATI/GSG 1911 .22LR pistol comes with a threaded barrel, which makes the handgun an assault weapon. [PC 12276.1(a)(4)(A)]

If GSG made the 1911 .22LR with a non-threaded barrel, then ATI could submit if for testing and get it on the approved list.

Ripon83
03-09-2011, 6:12 PM
As I've looked the only 22 LR pistol that is on the registry is from Kimber. If there is another would someone let me know - that is the only one I can find. Someone reported getting the GSG into the state with the single shot exemption and I believe a new barrel but I am not sure.

There are some in the state that can be PPT legally, but they don't come up very often on our market place. My gun dealer says he'll get me one, but I'm not holding my breath. I'd just like a dedicated 22 - 1911.

By the way Browning, I'm told is making 2 different 22 LR pistols in the 1911 configuration. One is an "80%" sized gun and the other full sized. The later is suppose to be a commemorative in limited quantity....this is just what I read someone and I could have it wrong. Also I doubt that Browning is going to submit to the DOJ...but I guess we can all hope?

morrcarr67
03-09-2011, 6:48 PM
Word on the street is that GSG is making one with a regular barrel so they can get it approved for sale in California.

As for the Browning they are making a 1911 that is 7/8 the size of a standard 1911 in .22lr and a full size 1911 in .45ACP. They are selling them as a limited edition set.

They will also be selling the 1911-22 as a new model for 2011. It will only be available in California via single shot conversion. The Browning 1911-22 doesn't have a magazine disconnect safety so it can't be sent in for testing.

X-NewYawker
03-09-2011, 7:03 PM
Handle the Ciappas .22 1911 yesterday -- ALSO not legal in CA but was at Movie armorer's place. Felt like a real Colt…crappy slide fit and all.

Ubermcoupe
03-09-2011, 8:34 PM
Someone reported getting the GSG into the state with the single shot exemption and I believe a new barrel but I am not sure.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/member.php?u=24896
DaveFJ80
(I hope he doesn't mind me referencing him)
I PM'd him regarding the GSG but a lot of work went into getting one in CA. The gist was a new "custom" non-threaded barrel, shaved .45 mag, etc + a willing FFL to process the deal. I think that stars happened to come in line for him (lucky!).

I have heard others reference GSG submitting the .22 to CADOJ for testing, but I do not know where in the process that approval is. I wouldn't hold my breath (Unfortunately) for it to come out soon:(

You can find info on Browning here (http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=028B&catalog_=B)
the "full size" is 4.25in barrel and the commander is 3 5/8in so I believe these are both not full size, + the roster... again :(

Colt via UmarexUSA is supposed to sell a .22 1911 (http://www.colt22rimfire.com/index.php?page=colt-1911) but there is no update on actual sales will process. I tried to contact them for a ETA, no response. There is a picture I saw on this forum that show the "Colt .22" and GSG... they seem to look alike, try search?
And again, the CA roster... :(

All in All it seems I may go with a Kimber conversion to "hold me over" but I want a dedicated 1911 to take with me to the range.

For plinking I still use my Ruger MKII... works great, always loads... =)

DaveFJ80
03-09-2011, 9:28 PM
Yes, I went through a small process of getting mine setup & registered legally in CA. As others said, the main issue is the threaded barrel. Supposedly, the Sig 1911-22 that is coming out this year should have a non-threaded barrel. If that's the case, then I'm 99% sure that barrel will work just fine in a GSG since they're pretty much exactly the same gun, just rebadged differently.

As for making it CA DOJ friendly, there is already a mag disconnect safety in the mainspring housing, which easy to remove after you DROS the gun since it's a pain to put the hammer down without putting an empty mag in (bad practice IMO) or by using a screwdriver to push up the release lever inside the mag well. The other thing that is needed to make it CA DOJ friendly is a loaded chamber indicator, which my GSG does not have. Of course ATI can easily get around this by drilling a small half-circle at the top edge of the barrel so you can visually see that there is brass in the chamber. Otherwise, that's pretty much it.


Very fun gun to have and shoot, so if you can get one then get one. The best part is it will shot anything I put through it, 100% flawless. It doesn't even matter how you load the mags (loading one by one and seating them correctly, or just pulling down on the follower and letting them drop into place on their own). The gun just shoots. If anyone wants to try mine out, I'm usually at LPFR every now & then and I always bring it with me. I'll try to make it out to the Shoot 'n' Q in April and bring it there, and I'll definitely be at the EBR rimfire match and will also have it there.

U2BassAce
03-09-2011, 9:46 PM
I LOVE my Kimber!

morrcarr67
03-10-2011, 9:09 AM
The other thing that is needed to make it CA DOJ friendly is a loaded chamber indicator, which my GSG does not have.

.22lr Pistols do not need the "LCI" to be on the roster, only the "MDS"

12126. As used in this chapter, "unsafe handgun" means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001, for which any of the following is true:

(a) For a revolver:
(1) It does not have a safety device that, either automatically in the case of a double-action firing mechanism, or by manual operation in the case of a single-action firing mechanism, causes the hammer to retract to a point where the firing pin does not rest upon the primer of the cartridge.
(2) It does not meet the firing requirement for handguns pursuant to Section 12127.
(3) It does not meet the drop safety requirement for handguns pursuant to Section 12128.

(b) For a pistol:
(1) It does not have a positive manually operated safety device, as determined by standards relating to imported guns promulgated by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.
(2) It does not meet the firing requirement for handguns pursuant to Section 12127.
(3) It does not meet the drop safety requirement for handguns pursuant to Section 12128.
(4) Commencing January 1, 2006, for a center-fire semiautomatic pistol that is not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it does not have either a chamber load indicator, or a magazine disconnect mechanism.
(5) Commencing January 1, 2007, for all center-fire semiautomatic pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it does not have both a chamber load indicator and if it has a detachable magazine, a magazine disconnect mechanism.
(6) Commencing January 1, 2006, for all rimfire semiautomatic pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it does not have a magazine disconnect mechanism, if it has a detachable magazine.

DaveFJ80
03-10-2011, 11:44 AM
.22lr Pistols do not need the "LCI" to be on the roster, only the "MDS"

12126. As used in this chapter, "unsafe handgun" means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001, for which any of the following is true:

(b) For a pistol:

(6) Commencing January 1, 2006, for all rimfire semiautomatic pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it does not have a magazine disconnect mechanism, if it has a detachable magazine.


Cool. Since the GSG already has the MDS, all ATI needs to do is replace the threaded barrel and you're they're set for CA DOJ standards. Now as for how long that process will take, who knows. But at least by then, getting it into CA to do a single-shot conversion should be much easier.

killmime1234
03-10-2011, 11:54 AM
My buddy's looking to get a .22 1911 right now. The GSG is the first thing to come to mind, but I then realized it wasn't CA legal. Good to know Umarex may come out with one. Hopefully it's more economically priced than the Kimber.

morrcarr67
03-10-2011, 4:35 PM
Yes. It is just a matter of time before the GSG will be on the roster.
I'm just surprised that more companies that make 22lr pistols don't add the MDS and have them certified for sale in California. Like many people have said: There is a lot of money in California for gun sales.

Ubermcoupe
03-10-2011, 7:09 PM
There is a lot of money in California for gun sales.

Shhh, Don't tell the Brady's... they might think a tax is in order... :43:

morrcarr67
03-11-2011, 9:35 AM
Shhh, Don't tell the Brady's... they might think a tax is in order... :43:

Sorry about that.

Ripon83
03-11-2011, 1:31 PM
Chiappia is so affordable. I don't know why they don't try to get that approved in CA. There is no threaded barrel issue for them that I know of? There is a gun smith in WI that claims to be able to fix up the Chiappia really nice for shooting for less then $200 as well (new barrel, trigger work, and more). I've read good reports about his work, and that'd make for a nice dedicated 22 LR full size 1911 for under $500.

morrcarr67
03-11-2011, 2:00 PM
Chiappia is so affordable. I don't know why they don't try to get that approved in CA. There is no threaded barrel issue for them that I know of? There is a gun smith in WI that claims to be able to fix up the Chiappia really nice for shooting for less then $200 as well (new barrel, trigger work, and more). I've read good reports about his work, and that'd make for a nice dedicated 22 LR full size 1911 for under $500.

The problem is that the Chiappa doesn't have a MDS so it will not meet the requirements for testing.

jackandblood
03-11-2011, 2:24 PM
that notion deserves a frown not an evil laugh. :p Good thing for that show Top Shot. Filmed in CA(Woot woot!), and shows a diverse group of responsible, grounded enthusiasts. Really, I have family members that were anti-gun enjoy the show and understand the sporting nature of shooting from watching it.

I'm not familiar with the acronym MDS. Magazine Drop um, Sandwich?

Shhh, Don't tell the Brady's... they might think a tax is in order... :43:

DaveFJ80
03-11-2011, 3:53 PM
Chiappia is so affordable..... I've read good reports about his work, and that'd make for a nice dedicated 22 LR full size 1911 for under $500.

The Chiappia is affordable out of the box. But once you start modifying it to how you want it, then you end up spending a lot more than the cost of a GSG. I'm not saying what you should or should not get, but just pointing out how I see it.

When everything was all said and done, my GSG cost me a less than $500, and that also includes 2 extra mags for it (with all 3 mags, I was just over the $500 mark :p)

Ripon83
03-11-2011, 4:27 PM
The fit and finish of the GSG looks better to me then the Chiappia. I was "sold" on the idea of seeing it customized by someone with a good reputation for building a shooter with new barrel, trigger customization, etc. I would be afraid with the GSG I'd still need that? Maybe not....darn things anyway...darn state!


The Chiappia is affordable out of the box. But once you start modifying it to how you want it, then you end up spending a lot more than the cost of a GSG. I'm not saying what you should or should not get, but just pointing out how I see it.

When everything was all said and done, my GSG cost me a less than $500, and that also includes 2 extra mags for it (with all 3 mags, I was just over the $500 mark :p)

winetoad
03-11-2011, 6:50 PM
Just what doe's MDS mean? And thanks for all the responses to my original post. Great responses.

Quiet
03-11-2011, 6:59 PM
Just what doe's MDS mean? And thanks for all the responses to my original post. Great responses.

MDS = Magazine Disconnect Safety?

I think the poster meant to say magazine disconnect mechanism.

Penal Code 12126
As used in this chapter, "unsafe handgun" means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001, for which any of the following is true:
(b) For a pistol:
(6) Commencing January 1, 2006, for all rimfire semiautomatic pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it does not have a magazine disconnect mechanism, if it has a detachable magazine.
(d) As used in this section, a "magazine disconnect mechanism" means a mechanism that prevents a semiautomatic pistol that has a detachable magazine from operating to strike the primer of ammunition in the firing chamber when a detachable magazine is not inserted in the semiautomatic pistol.

morrcarr67
03-11-2011, 7:58 PM
Yes I did. MDS should be MDM :)