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View Full Version : Magazine disconnect safety


Halfey
03-03-2011, 2:01 PM
I was wondering if it is legal to remove.

Like one of those laws where the gunshop has to sell the gun with the mag disconnect installed, but when someone such as myself buys the gun he can legally remove it and keep/carry it that way.

They think a mag safety is more safe. I think it is more Dangerous!

It forces you to put a mag in the gun when you want to dryfire it.

What do you all think?

rudigan
03-03-2011, 2:06 PM
I'm fine with or without them. Have pistols with and without them. IMO if you are going to CCW with it, don't modify it at all.

leelaw
03-03-2011, 2:14 PM
It is legal to remove the magazine disconnect.

Librarian
03-03-2011, 2:15 PM
Yes, it's legal to modify your handguns after you receive them.

It would be possible to do illegal things - manufacture an 'assault weapon', manufacture a 'short-barreled rifle' - but removing the mag 'safety' will not do anything illegal.

dchang0
03-03-2011, 2:16 PM
Remove it. Like many safety devices such as antilock brakes, etc., it causes people to behave less safely.

It also adds more complexity to the manual of arms, which can be deadly in an actual defensive situation. Whenever the body undergoes a life-or-death situation, it cuts off blood flow to the brain (in order to power the muscles in fight-or-flight), effectively reducing the person's IQ by half. With half your IQ, you don't want to be trying to figure out why the gun didn't fire when you pulled the trigger (oh, the mag is a teeny bit not-quite-seated).

Keep the gun so simple even a monkey could operate it, and drill into your muscle memory safe behaviors like trigger discipline, etc.

rudigan
03-03-2011, 2:18 PM
Remove it. Like many safety devices such as antilock brakes, etc., it causes people to behave less safely.

Pppppfffffftttttt...

CA PI
03-03-2011, 2:38 PM
"effectively reducing the person's IQ by half." this is interesting, can you cite a source or is this one of those made up statistics?

SideWinder11
03-03-2011, 3:00 PM
Make sure to put it back before you sell it. It's my understanding that it would be illegal if you sold it without.

Librarian
03-03-2011, 3:16 PM
Make sure to put it back before you sell it. It's my understanding that it would be illegal if you sold it without.

Perfectly fine to sell it PPT with it removed - the mag disconnect is a Roster checkoff item, and those apply to sales out of dealer stock.

Halfey
03-03-2011, 3:48 PM
Thanks for all the info. Mag disconect is a joke. My trigger finger and my training are my safety.

It may be good for some people, but people that rely on a safety shouldn't be around guns anyway.

Munk
03-03-2011, 4:24 PM
Perfectly fine to sell it PPT with it removed - the mag disconnect is a Roster checkoff item, and those apply to sales out of dealer stock.

I was just going to point this out. The only time the Mag disconnect is relevant, is a time when the roster is involved.

zdragon
03-03-2011, 4:31 PM
one should be able to fire a pistol w/o a magazine intact with just a live round in the chamber.

mrvash
03-03-2011, 6:31 PM
Wait a second, if it's illegal to for an FFL to sell a handgun without a magazine disconnect safety does that mean Glocks that are in CA have that type of safety as well?

XDRoX
03-03-2011, 6:37 PM
Wait a second, if it's illegal to for an FFL to sell a handgun without a magazine disconnect safety does that mean Glocks that are in CA have that type of safety as well?

They're grandfathered in.

XDRoX
03-03-2011, 6:40 PM
I also hate mag disconnects. PITA if you ask me. My P22 has one and I despise it.

chesterthehero
03-03-2011, 6:45 PM
i dont like them at all.. at the moment i have one handgun that still has one.. ive had it for less than a week.. parts are being ordered tomorrow

rudigan
03-03-2011, 6:47 PM
Thanks for all the info. Mag disconect is a joke. My trigger finger and my training are my safety.

It may be good for some people, but people that rely on a safety shouldn't be around guns anyway.

Thats a silly statement.

Having a pistol with a mag disconnect is not having a safety. My DA/SA .45 has a mag disconnect and a safety. How do I carry it? 8 in the mag, one in the chamber, safety off. Never had an unintentional release of the mag.

erg33
03-03-2011, 7:27 PM
They're grandfathered in.

Is the design is grandfathered? How about the gen 3 and gen 4 glocks are not considered new handguns?

XDRoX
03-03-2011, 7:37 PM
Is the design is grandfathered? How about the gen 3 and gen 4 glocks are not considered new handguns?

If a brand changes their design, as Glock did, they are no longer accepted on the roster. Which is why the Gen4's are not on the roster. The only way Glock will get their Gen4's on the roster is if the "convince;)" the people in charge. They've done it before and I think they'll do it again.

jdg30
03-03-2011, 7:40 PM
I removed the mag disconnect safety on my Ruger Mark III 22/45's and it made a world of difference. Normally reassembly after field stripping on these guns is a PITA with the safety installed, but after removing the mag disconnect safety they reassemble without any problem, the way they should. It's also nice to have the option to fire the gun with the magazine removed if I want/need to.

I would definitely prefer buying a gun with no magazine disconnect safety as opposed to one of the new "safe" guns. Another gripe I have is guns that have the loaded chamber indicator and also have "If tab is up, gun is loaded and will fire if you pull the trigger" etched on the gun. Now that's ridiculous.

Halfey
03-03-2011, 7:47 PM
^^^^^^^^ yea. If people used their brain once in a while we wouldn't have crap like that written on the slide. What's next "this is a gun it shoots bullets, don't be a dumbass with it"

G60
03-03-2011, 7:52 PM
Glock isn't going to be convincing anybody of anything.

Librarian
03-03-2011, 8:33 PM
Wait a second, if it's illegal to for an FFL to sell a handgun without a magazine disconnect safety does that mean Glocks that are in CA have that type of safety as well?

They're grandfathered in.

Is the design is grandfathered? How about the gen 3 and gen 4 glocks are not considered new handguns?

If a brand changes their design, as Glock did, they are no longer accepted on the roster. Which is why the Gen4's are not on the roster. The only way Glock will get their Gen4's on the roster is if the "convince;)" the people in charge. They've done it before and I think they'll do it again.

The magazine disconnect is a feature added AFTER Glocks were already on the Roster, and is required only to GET ON the Roster.

So, already-Rostered Glocks (and other handguns) do not need features that were required after they were on the Roster.

See the wiki article http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/The_Safe_Handgun_List

Anchors
03-03-2011, 8:44 PM
I prefer not having it.

No reason in particular. Just seems completely unnecessary and not safer at all.

ocspeedracer
03-03-2011, 8:54 PM
I had a beretta 84f that had one, fired one shot and then would shoot anymore because it activated, only way to shoot another round was to eject mag and stick it back in.
I HATE MAG DISCONNECT SAFETIES.

Anchors
03-03-2011, 10:19 PM
I had a beretta 84f that had one, fired one shot and then would shoot anymore because it activated, only way to shoot another round was to eject mag and stick it back in.
I HATE MAG DISCONNECT SAFETIES.

It's just one more part that could go wrong and it isn't necessary.

inbox485
03-03-2011, 10:22 PM
Remove it. Like many safety devices such as antilock brakes, etc., it causes people to behave less safely.

It also adds more complexity to the manual of arms, which can be deadly in an actual defensive situation. Whenever the body undergoes a life-or-death situation, it cuts off blood flow to the brain (in order to power the muscles in fight-or-flight), effectively reducing the person's IQ by half. With half your IQ, you don't want to be trying to figure out why the gun didn't fire when you pulled the trigger (oh, the mag is a teeny bit not-quite-seated).

Keep the gun so simple even a monkey could operate it, and drill into your muscle memory safe behaviors like trigger discipline, etc.

Which gun shop did you get this gem at? I have a feeling trying to explain further would be a waste of my time...

Back on topic, most mag safeties function just fine. As long as we aren't talking about a defect, there are only two reasons not to have a mag safety:


You want to practice shooting the chambered round during mag changes
You want to practice dry firing with the mag out


Since I enjoy doing both, the first thing I do when getting a gun with a mag safety is figure out how to take it out and chuck it.

Halfey
03-03-2011, 11:40 PM
Next thing I need to do is figure out how to remove it from my M&P 45.

Anyone had any experance with this before?

inbox485
03-04-2011, 8:28 AM
Next thing I need to do is figure out how to remove it from my M&P 45.

Anyone had any experance with this before?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=M%26P+magazine+safety+removal

MrOrange
03-04-2011, 12:49 PM
How is it going to look to the jury of folks who never shot a BB gun that you deliberately disabled a manufacturers safety device? I'm sure your prosecutor will jump on it.

And yes, like the reloads thing, the point can be won with money and expertise, but why handicap yourself when you're going to have more than enough to deal with?

Cost v. benefit.

As to the dry-fire mag question, I almost always have one in when dry-firing. It's either going to be loaded with dummy rounds for the weight or snap caps for clearance drills. Either one will let me drop the slide with peace of mind when practicing reloads.

rudigan
03-04-2011, 12:51 PM
How is it going to look to the jury of folks who never shot a BB gun that you deliberately disabled a manufacturers safety device? I'm sure your prosecutor will jump on it.And yes, like the reloads thing, the point can be won with money and expertise, but why handicap yourself when you're going to have more than enough to deal with?

Cost v. benefit.

As to the dry-fire mag question, I almost always have one in when dry-firing. It's either going to be loaded with dummy rounds for the weight or snap caps for clearance drills. Either one will let me drop the slide with peace of mind when practicing reloads.

Exactly! See post #2 above.

MrOrange
03-04-2011, 1:00 PM
Well, it also applies if yer gonna to night-stand with it!

rudigan
03-04-2011, 1:03 PM
Well, it also applies if yer gonna to night-stand with it!

Agreed. Even if you use it to a dedicated range/in the safe weapon you never know when you may have to use it for SD.

Halfey
03-04-2011, 2:01 PM
Im sure the prosecutor would try anything but what can they possibly say. " he removed the mag disconnect safety and that means he MUST be a blood thirsty gun nut. Guilty guilty guilty!"

Fate
03-04-2011, 2:08 PM
How is it going to look to the jury of folks who never shot a BB gun that you deliberately disabled a manufacturers safety device? I'm sure your prosecutor will jump on it.

And yes, like the reloads thing, the point can be won with money and expertise, but why handicap yourself when you're going to have more than enough to deal with?

Cost v. benefit.


Please cite ONE case where this was ever an issue in the verdict. Just one.
I'll wait. :lurk5:

rudigan
03-04-2011, 3:44 PM
I don't want to be a test case. Use your imagination.

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury this right wing whacko gun nut used a MODIFED gun that he PURPOSELY REMOVED A SAFETY DEVICE FROM". "What would motivate someone to do something as dangerous as this"? Clearly he has no regard for safety when it comes to firearms, he thinks he knows better that the gun manufacturers..."

Fate
03-04-2011, 10:09 PM
^^^Give me a break.

F.U.D.

And night sights? A tactical light? Speed loader mag well? Trigger job? Using legally owned large capacity mags? Oh those indicate you were LOOKING for a fight. Jeez people.:rolleyes:

Sturnovik
03-04-2011, 10:12 PM
I was wondering if it is legal to remove.

Like one of those laws where the gunshop has to sell the gun with the mag disconnect installed, but when someone such as myself buys the gun he can legally remove it and keep/carry it that way.

They think a mag safety is more safe. I think it is more Dangerous!

It forces you to put a mag in the gun when you want to dryfire it.

What do you all think?


I think guns are 100 percent better without them. Honestly if it came stock with them though, I sorta hate the idea of tampering with its operation. I've heard of people have guns seize up for reason or another (not to common) due to trying to change out that part or file it away.

My Sigs and Glocks dont have them though. Glad they dont. For range weapons I dont see an issue with a gun having a mag safety but a combat handgun, heck no!

erg33
03-04-2011, 10:17 PM
I removed the mag disconnect safety on my Ruger Mark III 22/45's and it made a world of difference. Normally reassembly after field stripping on these guns is a PITA with the safety installed, but after removing the mag disconnect safety they reassemble without any problem, the way they should. It's also nice to have the option to fire the gun with the magazine removed if I want/need to.

I would definitely prefer buying a gun with no magazine disconnect safety as opposed to one of the new "safe" guns. Another gripe I have is guns that have the loaded chamber indicator and also have "If tab is up, gun is loaded and will fire if you pull the trigger" etched on the gun. Now that's ridiculous.

i have a ruger 22/45 bull barrel and i have that mag disconnect, is it hard to remove it? is there something i would have to buy?

MadMax
03-04-2011, 10:26 PM
I took the mag disconnect out of my mark III because when installed it would not allow my magazines to drop free. I bought a VQ mark III kit with a mark II bushing and now my mags drop free and the trigger is crisp as can be.

IMHO if the mag disconnect didn't effect performance then who cares if it is there but in the case of the mark III it causes the mags to stick and makes cleaning harder so it has to go.

inbox485
03-05-2011, 12:03 AM
Most mag safeties are a design after thought. A lot of them can be deactivated by removing a single part. Some of them (cough M&P cough) actually have the potential to drop the sear by removing the magazine. I really doubt removing one would be an issue. There are a number of simple responses one could give if your motive was called into question. You needed it gone for a trading class, you wanted your gun to be in the same configuration the police carry in, it was causing malfunctions, you have more brain cells than fingers, etc.

mrvash
03-05-2011, 12:08 AM
I'm getting my M&P40 next week, I'm guessing it's the CA compliant, does anyone know if it'll come with this mag and internal safety?

jdg30
03-05-2011, 8:23 AM
i have a ruger 22/45 bull barrel and i have that mag disconnect, is it hard to remove it? is there something i would have to buy?

Just get the Volquartsen trigger kit for the Mark II 22/45 (the previous model) and a Mark II hammer bushing, which is made by Volquartsen as well. Ruger doesn't make or sell the Mark II hammer bushing anymore but Volquartsen does. Then just remove the stock trigger/sear, hammer bushing, and mag disconnect and replace with the Volquartsen trigger kit and Mark II hammer bushing and the gun will be 100% better than it was before. The kit has instructions on how to install it. All you need is maybe a punch and needle nose pliers for tools.

The MkII hammer bushing takes up the extra space where the mag disconnect spring was and puts it in the same configuration as the Mark II pistols, which didn't have mag disconnects because they didn't need them. Don't forget to replace the stock extractor with a Volquartsen or Power Custom extractor for flawless ejection of spent cases. Everything costs around $100 total which is well worth it.

Librarian
03-05-2011, 10:28 AM
I'm getting my M&P40 next week, I'm guessing it's the CA compliant, does anyone know if it'll come with this mag and internal safety?

If you can buy it in CA, it'll have the mag safety - introduced in 2006, it needed either the mag safety or the loaded chamber indicator to get on the Roster. Internal safety is not required by CA and appears to be optional from S&W, so can't tell what you'll get.

erg33
03-05-2011, 8:34 PM
Just get the Volquartsen trigger kit for the Mark II 22/45 (the previous model) and a Mark II hammer bushing, which is made by Volquartsen as well. Ruger doesn't make or sell the Mark II hammer bushing anymore but Volquartsen does. Then just remove the stock trigger/sear, hammer bushing, and mag disconnect and replace with the Volquartsen trigger kit and Mark II hammer bushing and the gun will be 100% better than it was before. The kit has instructions on how to install it. All you need is maybe a punch and needle nose pliers for tools.

The MkII hammer bushing takes up the extra space where the mag disconnect spring was and puts it in the same configuration as the Mark II pistols, which didn't have mag disconnects because they didn't need them. Don't forget to replace the stock extractor with a Volquartsen or Power Custom extractor for flawless ejection of spent cases. Everything costs around $100 total which is well worth it.

I'm gonig to give a try, thanks

Springfield45
03-06-2011, 12:59 AM
I can see both sides of this issue. Both are valid points.

The only real positive reason I can see to having it on a gun is if you were wrestling with someone and they were going to get it away from you. You could drop the mag and disable the gun. But I believe the only way someone should be able to kill you with your own gun is by beating you to death with it. Because it should be empty before they could get it.

The worst that can happen with one installed is were you would need to reload before the magazine is empty. Say like you have two rounds left in the mag and one in the chamber. In the process of changing mags for a full one a bad guy pops up and your gun is inoperable until you complete the mag change.

Personally I don't like messing with something that is working just fine. A magazine disconnect dose not effect my shooting the gun and is a passive safety at best.

So IMHO I would not have a gun with a mag disconnect as my primary defencive weapon.