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View Full Version : Please write your Representative re HR 822!


MoeSizslak
03-01-2011, 8:41 AM
Hello all! As the title suggests, I believe that we need to write to our representatives when crucial legislation is afoot. If you don't know who yours is, please see:
http://whoismyrepresentative.com/

Also, I would like to invite you to use the letter below, either in part or whole, as you need. It is really a collective effort born of the suggestions of several other calgunners. (Note: you'll need to indent the paragraphs. For some reason, the forums posts always take away indents)

Also, if you've never read the following webpage, it's very useful. I made a few changes to my letter based on the advice here:
http://www.nraila.org/ActionCenter/GrassRootsActivism.aspx?ID=11

Dear Representative ________________:
Thank you for taking some of your valuable time to read this letter and consider its content. I am writing to you in support of H.R 822, which was introduced last week by Representatives Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.) and Heath Schuler (D-N.C.). The measure would allow any person with a valid state-issued concealed carry permit to carry a concealed firearm in any state that issues concealed firearm permits, or that does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms.

The debate about whether or not the Second Amendment extends to an individual’s right to self-protection with a firearm question has been settled in both District of Columbia v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago. Simply put, Americans have the right to keep and bear arms.

There are now 37 “shall issue” states (wherein a permit to carry a concealed weapon must be issued to any non-prohibited person), eight “may issue” states, and three states with no concealed care permit necessary at all. The predictions by anti-gun groups about mass violence by CCW holders have been proven to be baseless. There have been very few crimes committed by CCW holders; conversely, CCW holders have successfully protected their own lives, and their families’ lives, in great numbers.

It is important to understand that CCW permits are only issued to those who complete the application, pay the fees, receive training, pass the background check, and prove their proficiency with the firearm that is specifically detailed on the actual permit. Thus, the individuals who apply for and receive a CCW are truly exceptional: these extensive measures prevent the irresponsible citizen from being issued a CCW permit.

Another fact of crucial importance in this matter is that the police have no obligation to protect the citizenry, as affirmed in cases such as Castle Rock v. Gonzales. While the police certainly do their best to protect us, they could never provide protection to everyone, everywhere, at all times. Therefore, the duty to defend oneself lays primarily within that self.

I would like to make it clear that I do not possess a CCW, and until the permit issuing practices in my county are changed, I will not be able to do so. Thus, to most people, I stand to gain nothing through the passage of HR 822, as it will not immediately change my ability to carry a concealed firearm. However, while HR 822 may not save my life, it may save the lives of others in this country who have the rights that were “guaranteed” in the Second Amendment. Please support this bill!

Please reply to the email address below with your position on this issue. I would be happy to answer any questions or concerns you may have.

Yours truly,

Glock22Fan
03-01-2011, 9:01 AM
I would like to make it clear that I do not possess a CCW, and until the permit issuing practices in my county are changed, I will not be able to do so. Thus, to most people, I stand to gain nothing through the passage of HR 822, as it will not immediately change my ability to carry a concealed firearm.


Didn't we decide last week that the wording of the bill would allow us to get, say, a Utah CCW and benefit in every state except California and the two that do not (at present) permit any form of concealed carry?

MoeSizslak
03-01-2011, 9:05 AM
Didn't we decide last week that the wording of the bill would allow us to get, say, a Utah CCW and benefit in every state except California and the two that do not (at present) permit any form of concealed carry?

I rarely travel out of state, so that is a true statement for me. Like I said, others should add/subtract/edit to their personal situation. Thanks!

MoeSizslak
03-02-2011, 6:27 AM
BTT...

DO IT NOW!

vladbutsky
03-02-2011, 10:26 AM
Just did it.
I don't expect much from it though. :(
My representative was just reelected virtually unopposed. So I don't think she will care what I have to say about guns...

MoeSizslak
03-02-2011, 10:36 AM
Just did it.
I don't expect much from it though. :(
My representative was just reelected virtually unopposed. So I don't think she will care what I have to say about guns...
Yeah, I don't have much expectation either - I just think we need to let them know how we feel. Imagine if every CG-er wrote...they'd be getting THOUSANDS of letters! That may be only a drop in the bucket of the overall population, but it's a step. Every little bit counts, and we should all be looking for ways to make a difference!

TempleKnight
03-02-2011, 1:16 PM
Notwithstanding some comments to the contrary, I have the following problems with this. First, do we really want the Federal Government getting into this, by telling the States that they have to honor other State's CCW permits? .

Do you have a problem with other states honoring your California drivers license?

MoeSizslak
03-02-2011, 1:42 PM
At the risk of getting yelled at and called nasty names, I am not in support of H.R. 822. Some might say that it is because I live in a county that does issue CCW permits, and therefore since I have mine (CA; NV; UT; & FL. . .soon to add OR), some will say that I don't care. That is absolutely not the case.

Notwithstanding some comments to the contrary, I have the following problems with this. First, do we really want the Federal Government getting into this, by telling the States that they have to honor other State's CCW permits? This is going to tick off a large number of States, if not all. Regardless of what some think and believe, I have very strong reservations as to the constitutionality of this Bill. If there ever was a State's Rights issue, this is it. This can be a real slippery slope here, being yet another step towards letting the expanding federal government walk over the States, ignore the Constitution, and get their nose in our business. I see this to have long range bad results for all of us.

Would I like to see a world were my CCW would be honored by all of the other States? You bet I would; however, I have strong reservations about this being the way to make it happen. Approximately 85% of Californians cannot obtain a CCW. California CCW permits have to be renewed every two years, where most other States' are good for 5 to 7 years. These are the things that we should be working on to get changed. . .right here at home in California. H.R. 822 will do nothing for dealing with out home grown California anti-gun people. Education, hard work in the trenches at election time, and honesty of presentations are what will sway and change things in California. I would rather take longer and do it right, than turn to the federal government and do it wrong.

Was not the mid-term elections about limiting federal government? Was not one of the major issues and complaints about the congressional practices of "tacking on" and non-transparent actions? So, as I see this, we can turn a blind eye to these suggested practices. . .because this appears on its face something that we want?

A federal mandate to the States on this issue will cause more problems than any imagined benefits.

Without a Supreme Court case stating that the right to carry a concealed weapon is a 2nd Amendment right, H.R. 822 could result in our never getting that sort of ruling from SCOTUS. Do we want to take that risk over a Bill that really does little for any of us?

I certainly respect and understand all of the others who are getting behind HR 822, that's fine. I just think a forward look down the road on this issue needs to be taken. I still maintain that the federal government may not legally mandate, nay force, the States to honor other States' CCW permits. If I am correct, and HR 822 is ruled unconstitutional by the courts, we will suffer a set-back much greater that any real value gained if I am wrong. Based upon my law degree, my knowledge and experience of Constitutional Law, and several years as a trial lawyer and judge (now retired), I have to go with "this is not a good thing" for our long term 2nd Amendment rights.

"Be careful what you wish for", immediately comes to mind. . .

Well, you are certainly more qualified than I am, so you might be right. I can't pretend that I know and understand all of the legal implications of the matters discussed herein, so maybe I am wrong to encourage passing this. It was my understanding that most of the legal eagles on this board think HR 822 ultimately helps us by forcing further recognition of the 2A.

Does this bill really expand the federal government at all? I'm not sure that it does. The driver's license analogy seems appropriate here.

I'd love to hear more opinions about HR 822. I certainly don't want to harm the cause - I just want to help somehow.

(Shoulda gone to law school!)

oldrifle
03-02-2011, 8:45 PM
"Be careful what you wish for", immediately comes to mind. . .

Easy to say when you already have your CCW. Most of us aren't fortunate enough to live in counties in which that's a possibility. I'm very pro-state's rights but this is a law that brings us more freedom and not less so I will have to relax my staunch ideologies a bit for the chance to gain a freedom I very much want.

As others have said, if all states must recognize a state driver's license, there's no reason they can't all recognize a concealed carry permit. I want to be able to legally carry a firearm to defend myself... in a world where you must pick your battles, I'm not going to quibble over whether the 2nd amendment can trump the 10th.

stix213
03-04-2011, 1:33 PM
First, do we really want the Federal Government getting into this, by telling the States that they have to honor other State's CCW permits?

The 2A is in the constitution of the federal government. They are already deeply involved, and have been since the 1700's. Its the states that need to get their nose out of a clearly federal issue.

AragornElessar86
03-04-2011, 1:49 PM
The 2A is in the constitution of the federal government. They are already deeply involved, and have been since the 1700's. Its the states that need to get their nose out of a clearly federal issue.

THIS

2A is inherently a FEDERAL issue, not a state one.

Window_Seat
03-04-2011, 2:50 PM
THIS

2A is inherently a FEDERAL issue, not a state one.

Agreed (wearing flip flops) and we have to remind ourselves of this.

As far as contacting my Congressman (http://www.stark.house.gov/)? Should I even bother? I think I'll just save my energy for something else (maybe for CGF)... In the past, I've talked of going to his townhalls, but...

While HR-822 is a bill, it will have a tough run in the Senate, and is guaranteed to be DOA at the President's desk because he WILL veto it. It needs to be an amendment to a must sign bill. There is no line item veto, and it might be more (or less) difficult to repeal amendments to a bill. If it's more difficult, should this make my (OOS) Utah permit valid in my home state? Should we be willing to let Richards & Peruta be mooted if it's an amendment to a must sign bill?

Erik.

QQQ
03-04-2011, 6:26 PM
I am skeptical of this legislation and will remain so until I see a guarantee that other states will continue to issue CCW permits to California residents.

diginit
03-04-2011, 8:51 PM
For the uninformed,You may want to post a link on HR 822 so they know WTF your talking about... Otherwise...:useless: :D

MoeSizslak
03-04-2011, 9:10 PM
For the uninformed,You may want to post a link on HR 822 so they know WTF your talking about... Otherwise...:useless: :D

Seriously??? Ok, how's this:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=400089

...and what pic would you like?

taperxz
03-07-2011, 4:50 PM
Yes, the 2nd Amendment is part of our federal Constitution. And, no it is not just a federal issue in the context of this thread and the pending bill. Notwithstanding the 2nd Amendment, each of the separate States have the legal right and power to "regulate" guns laws within their State. This is particularly true in light of the fact that there currently is NO US Supreme Court, nor 9th Federal Circuit Court opinion saying that the 2nd Amendment mandates a right to be able to carry a loaded weapon in a concealed fashion for all otherwise qualified citizens. You folks who are quick to try and give to me a lesson in the Constitution and federal law, let me just say as nice as I can. . .you don't know want you are talking about.

Are you suggesting that all private gun rights, ownership, CCW permits, etc. should be handled by the federal government. Do you think you should go to the federal government (read ATF) to apply and TRY to get a CCW permit?

I said it before, and I stick to my "guns", I don't want the federal government expanding their control over me.

If we ever do get a solid federal court ruling on this question, the States still have the right to regulate in accordance with any such federal court ruling. I know that there are many of you who feel and believe that the law should be that anyone can carry a concealed loaded gun based upon the "keep and bear arms" language of the 2nd Amendment. What you hope or think the law ought to be, is not what the law is currently.

With my many years experience in dealing with these kinds of issues in the courts, I am willing to bet that you will never get a 9th Cir. or Supreme Ct. ruling that states that the 2nd Amendment gives all citizens the right to carry a loaded weapon in a concealed fashion. I submit that California could pass a law banning all CCW permits, and that fact would not be in violation of the 2nd Amendment. I could be wrong, hell pigs could fly. . .who knows. I will still put my money on keeping the feds. off of my back every chance that I can.

There is a difference between the federal min. standards (to yet be determined by the courts) as set by the 2nd Amendment, and the regulations by the States within those min. federal standards. A fine, yet clear distinction.

So in this case you don't want the Federal gov't messing with ya. Ok thats fine. Guess what though. The federal government would be willing to give this state more freedom if our azzhat CA politicians didn't take em away from you.

Just thought i should remind you of who took our rights away and made up all these bogus laws.

ubet
03-07-2011, 5:04 PM
Mooseeyes, I deffinetly see how you are concerned about this, it scares me too. States right are already out the window with obamacare, though. I personally would rather see this come from scotus though (obviously in our favor). Then it would be limited to 2a/ccw and the gubernment couldnt use it to take away what little states rights their are.

stix213
03-07-2011, 6:49 PM
So Mooseeyes, the states can't arbitrarily ignore other states' drivers licences, but driving a car isn't even in the constitution. It would seem silly to suddenly require all Nevada residents to get a CA drivers license here just to travel here.

But you are arguing that it should be fine for the states to arbitrarily ignore other states' concealed handgun licenses even though the right to bear arms is written right into the bill of rights, in the name of state's rights right? You realize that that will mean all people who live outside of California will always be denied the RKBA in CA since this state will never issue CCW's to OOS residents in large numbers. And you prefer that system over the federal government actually enforcing the 2A through legislation....

I support the 10th amendment, and think too many states rights have been lost, but the power to infringe on any Americans right to bear arms is a power that should never be reserved to the states. The 2A makes protecting gun rights clearly a power delegated to the federal government, and per the 10th's wording should not be reserved for the states.