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View Full Version : To M1A or not to M1A? That is the question.


kimo308
02-27-2011, 12:08 AM
I use to own an M1A but sold it a few years ago. That particular M1A was a standard Springfield model purchased new in 2001. It was reliable and accurate. I placed over 500 rounds through it before selling it, with only a couple FTF's experienced during the first 200 rounds. It was flawless thereafter. I am wanting to buy another one but have been reading quite a mix review on current production M1A's. There seems to be alot of reliability issues with it from FTF's, FTE's, extractor problems and small parts breaking. Has the SA M1A really gone down hill in quality? I read some deterring reviews at firingline and M14 forums about it and as much as I want one, am now having much doubts. What are your experiences and opinions here, and please tell me if this expensive rifle is worth it or not? Should I gamble on one or just save my money, move on, and buy something else?

jaustin612
02-27-2011, 12:15 AM
I say go for it. I just got a Springfield M1a Loaded model, its beautiful. I haven't shot that much through it, but I haven't had a failure yet. It shoots very accurately.

odysseus
02-27-2011, 12:16 AM
You are always going to read a lot more negative reviews than positive on the internet. It's the nature of the beast. People take more effort to complain more than endorse, it's just basic human nature.

I am not saying you might not have a problem, it is a mass produced rifle and thus subject to some variance in QC. I have been lucky, I have more than one of them too. However Springfield has a legendary lifetime warranty that will make it straight for you if you encounter an issue.

jyo
02-27-2011, 3:54 AM
The answer to your question is: FAL!

GM4spd
02-27-2011, 4:34 AM
You should have kept the one you had. Try finding a used one that lists
GI parts--like the op-rod/trigger group/bolt/ and if you find one with an
original GI chrome-lined barrel,call me:D Pete

gunafficionado
02-27-2011, 4:36 AM
Scout or SOCOM? That's the quandry i'm in.

X-NewYawker
02-27-2011, 8:16 AM
Get one (I say Scout) and just replace the gas piston and recoil spring guide with Sadlak's parts, and get a GI op rod and bolt later…
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/Sadlakpiston.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/Rifles/_MG_0824.jpg

HK Dave
02-27-2011, 8:21 AM
Get one (I say Scout) and just replace the gas piston and recoil spring guide with Sadlak's parts, and get a GI op rod and bolt later…
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/Sadlakpiston.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/Rifles/_MG_0824.jpg

What does the Sadlak piston do different?

lelandEOD
02-27-2011, 8:33 AM
What does the Sadlak piston do different?

It works.


:D

bizarrocolin
02-27-2011, 8:35 AM
A fulton m14 was for sale in the private sale section-might still be, if you are not wanting springfield. Price is roughly on par with a loaded m1a.

lelandEOD
02-27-2011, 8:36 AM
Seriously... they are just made better. They are electro-polished and coated with titanium nitride. They don't get fouled near as easy and you really want to limit the frequency of taking the gas plug out to clean as it will have an inherent impact on your accuracy.

Cheap insurance. I have an LRB M14SA and absolutely love shooting it. I ran into trouble with the Sadlak scope mount and haven't actually resolved the issue. I kept running out of elevation in my scope much past 300 yards.

rudigan
02-27-2011, 8:37 AM
Got a SA scout little over a year ago. Never any FT anythings. I mean none. Love this gun, my favorite gun ever, and will never get rid of it!

bizarrocolin
02-27-2011, 9:01 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=5893359#post5893359 I figured out how to copy urls on phone.
On the topic of pistons, is one with groove better than non groove, or is it just different purpose?

X-NewYawker
02-27-2011, 9:02 AM
The answer to your question is: FAL!

FAL = FAIL
no detachable magazines
only clones of the original Belgian FALs around…

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/Rifles/IMG_6115.jpg

If this was a FREE STATE, I'd agree with you.

dieselpower
02-27-2011, 9:07 AM
search for a good used one...just like the one you sold. There are a lot of guys who bought during the craze that are now broke in need of cash. they were never "shooters" and their firearms have little to no use on them.

search around..place ads online...explain you are looking for a 2000ish built M1A with little to no use, a few 1000 at the most. Deal with the guys who reply to you.

I bet you can get one for a lot less then you think.

X-NewYawker
02-27-2011, 9:08 AM
search for a good used one...just like the one you sold. There are a lot of guys who bought during the craze that are now broke in need of cash. they were never "shooters" and their firearms have little to no use on them.

search around..place ads online...explain you are looking for a 2000ish built M1A with little to no use, a few 1000 at the most. Deal with the guys who reply to you.

I bet you can get one for a lot less then you think.

ditto
are there any on our boards now? Also check M14Forum...

beerman
02-27-2011, 9:09 AM
I think the majority of people bad-mouthing the Springfield M1As are just trying to justify their spending hundreds to thousands more for designer a brand M1a. I've had mine for over 20 years, never disappoints

Pryde
02-27-2011, 9:54 AM
I think the majority of people bad-mouthing the Springfield M1As are just trying to justify their spending hundreds to thousands more for designer a brand M1a. I've had mine for over 20 years, never disappoints

Yes because you have a model that was built 20 years ago when they were making them with USGI parts on their receiver. They ran out years ago and newer guns are made with lots of cast parts where the original design spec called for forged.

X-NewYawker
02-27-2011, 10:34 AM
My friend has TWO custom M-14s (I will not name manufacturer) that he paid $6000+ for each gun! Both have forged receivers (which cost nearly $1K each) and I spoke to the manufacturer of forged receivers and he said you would have to shoot a LOT more than my friend does to ever see the difference between the forged and a cast Springfield receiver. Rather have a "loaded" and $1500 scope and 1.5$K worth of ammo!

mls343
02-27-2011, 11:48 AM
I love my M1A. This would truly be the only rifle I would own if I could only own one rifle (Thank goodness this is NOT the case...). Mine is an early one 15XXX, but I have never had any reliability issues - ever. For the record, mine is a standard model and it just feels right for me.

My opinion, get it!

popeye4
02-27-2011, 11:57 AM
SA does have that warranty, so if you get one that has a problem they will fix it. Since a lot of the USGI parts supply has dried up, SA now uses commercial parts (which may or may not be good enough). There are some manufacturers coming out with mil-spec parts (gas cylinders, op rods, etc). From what I've heard, the extractor (for some reason) has not been effectively duplicated in a commercial part. If you can find a USGI extractor, that might solve any "failure to extract" issues.

As others have mentioned, look around for a used rifle if you want USGI.

odysseus
02-27-2011, 12:11 PM
I think there is a market inefficiency here with the loss of USGI parts. With all the M1As out there in the world, I wonder why a quality manufacturer doesn't come out with a line of oprods, bolts, extractors, and etc. for those in the want of gear like that? Sadlak has some of that action, but not all.

6mmintl
02-27-2011, 1:40 PM
What I have seen of a recent Sept 2010 Springfield M1a is a lot of the parts are now investment castings, brittle, and not well finished, sights even after rework dont hold zero. Buy an older one with all GI parts and they will run a lot longer.

Its not what you see on the outside, its whats on the inside that matters, GI parts are the way to go.

charliedontsurf334
02-27-2011, 2:21 PM
I use to own an M1A but sold it a few years ago. That particular M1A was a standard Springfield model purchased new in 2001. It was reliable and accurate. I placed over 500 rounds through it before selling it, with only a couple FTF's experienced during the first 200 rounds. It was flawless thereafter. I am wanting to buy another one but have been reading quite a mix review on current production M1A's. There seems to be alot of reliability issues with it from FTF's, FTE's, extractor problems and small parts breaking. Has the SA M1A really gone down hill in quality? I read some deterring reviews at firingline and M14 forums about it and as much as I want one, am now having much doubts. What are your experiences and opinions here, and please tell me if this expensive rifle is worth it or not? Should I gamble on one or just save my money, move on, and buy something else?

My M1A was made in 2007, and I practically had the exact same experience with FTF's in the first 200 rounds but I've put another 1500 down range and have had no problems.

Jonathan Doe
02-27-2011, 2:57 PM
Any rifle shooter should have at least one M-1A.

MrPlink
02-27-2011, 3:02 PM
You are always going to read a lot more negative reviews than positive on the internet.

my studies with less educated consumers indicates the opposite. It goes against western culture to admit one spent their money foolishly.

"Of course its the best, thats why I bought it!"

Might not really be the case with gun culture, but with run of the mill products, it is.

HK Dave
02-27-2011, 3:07 PM
Seriously... they are just made better. They are electro-polished and coated with titanium nitride. They don't get fouled near as easy and you really want to limit the frequency of taking the gas plug out to clean as it will have an inherent impact on your accuracy.

Cheap insurance. I have an LRB M14SA and absolutely love shooting it. I ran into trouble with the Sadlak scope mount and haven't actually resolved the issue. I kept running out of elevation in my scope much past 300 yards.

How interesting. I'll take a look at the piston. I've never had any failures of any kind with my M1A and none of my friends who own them have ever had failures so I was surprised to hear about failures on this board.

E Pluribus Unum
02-27-2011, 3:07 PM
You should have kept the one you had. Try finding a used one that lists
GI parts--like the op-rod/trigger group/bolt/ and if you find one with an
original GI chrome-lined barrel,call me:D Pete

The one he had was mostly repro parts.

I bought my M1A in March of 2001, and the only USGI parts were the barrel, and the front site.


Everyone picks on Springfield Armory; why? For the same reason everyone picks on Glock, and the USA; they are on top. Things on high pedestals make easy targets.

Buy your reproduction SA M1A, shoot the crap out of it, and be very happy; there is a lifetime warranty; if you end up needing it, use it.

E Pluribus Unum
02-27-2011, 3:09 PM
My M1A was made in 2007, and I practically had the exact same experience with FTF's in the first 200 rounds but I've put another 1500 down range and have had no problems.

This is very common with brand-new M1A's. I have rarely heard of a brand new one that did NOT have FTF and FTE issues in the first 200 bangs. I am not sure why, but they always rectify themselves very quickly, and become good shooters for life.

tygerpaw
02-27-2011, 3:17 PM
I think there is a market inefficiency here with the loss of USGI parts. With all the M1As out there in the world, I wonder why a quality manufacturer doesn't come out with a line of oprods, bolts, extractors, and etc. for those in the want of gear like that? Sadlak has some of that action, but not all.

I believe that Smith Enterprises is making some parts (Op-rods and gas cylinders).
http://www.smithenterprise.com/products03.01.html

X-NewYawker
02-27-2011, 3:25 PM
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/Rifles/_MG_0827.jpg

Is there anything more beautiful?

MrPlink
02-27-2011, 3:41 PM
FAL = FAIL
only clones of the original Belgian FALs around…


and that makes the M1A what now?

X-NewYawker
02-27-2011, 3:53 PM
and that makes the M1A what now?

LEGAL!
Witness the pre-ban 30 rounder --
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/Rifles/TheBIGMAG.jpg
and no "tool" to release it except my fingers -- My first rifle was a Belgian FAL -- it rocked -- and the DS Arms guns rock -- but in Ca they have to be neutered. If you want a pure combat rifle they way it came out of the box, in CA it's the M1A.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/Rifles/_MG_0806.jpg

Lrchops
02-27-2011, 4:38 PM
DSA SA-58 Rifles are awesome and so are the M1A's. I have both and both have functioned flawlessly! Both pre-bans!

Foriegn power
02-27-2011, 4:50 PM
x new yawker, you got it brother! Like you have said since we reside in CA the M1A is the most practical combat rifle here in CA! HA no tools to detach the magazine, only our fingers! On the side note, it looks like the Socom 16 is a very compact rifle? how do you like it?

X-NewYawker
02-27-2011, 5:04 PM
x new yawker, you got it brother! Like you have said since we reside in CA the M1A is the most practical combat rifle here in CA! HA no tools to detach the magazine, only our fingers! On the side note, it looks like the Socom 16 is a very compact rifle? how do you like it?

I like the SOCOM for it's size, but I love the 18 inch scout for a few hundred feet per-second more velocity. I have had SOCOM IIs in JAE's get close to MOA at 100 yards.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/JAE%20rifles/rooker-socom.jpg

RT13
02-27-2011, 9:25 PM
I say get one! The M1A is a great rifle and would be the smart choice for CA gunners since it's one of the few rare rifles left where you can legally drop mags freely. I like the FAL also, but not gonna waste money on one that has a bullet button. I personally would not spend more than $1500 on any rifle if equipped with a bullet button. An AR with a raddlock is ok with me since converting it to full functionioning magazine release is easy.

I use to own an M1A Scout and sold it. I never warmed up to it that much but shot my buddies full size M1A and liked it much more than the Scout. Thinking about getting one of those loaded M1A's. His M1A had one FTF at the first 100 rounds. He has about 300 now and no jams since. I think the new springs are stiff and need break in. One thing I didn't like about the Scout which goes for the Socom as well is that the op rod scrapes the forward scope mount. You can clearly see the area that it has worn away.

X-NewYawker
02-27-2011, 9:31 PM
I use to own an M1A Scout and sold it. I never warmed up to it that much but shot my buddies full size M1A and liked it much more than the Scout. Thinking about getting one of those loaded M1A's. His M1A had one FTF at the first 100 rounds. He has about 300 now and no jams since. I think the new springs are stiff and need break in. One thing I didn't like about the Scout which goes for the Socom as well is that the op rod scrapes the forward scope mount. You can clearly see the area that it has worn away.

I say the only good Scout is the one WITHOUT the forward mount.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/JAE%20rifles/P1010649.jpg

brando
02-27-2011, 11:11 PM
Just don't expect precision out of an M1A

plankowner
02-28-2011, 4:45 AM
I have had my scout for about 6 years and have put some rounds down range and I have never had a single hiccup from it , I will never give this one up

H2O MAN
02-28-2011, 5:08 AM
Just don't expect precision out of an M1A

Why not?

X-NewYawker
02-28-2011, 7:22 AM
Because they are not intrinsically as accurate as the more stable, linear bolt actions and tube action ARS. The M14 bolt is a massive piece of metal that twists, the rear of a standard M14 receiver is totally unsupported -- even glass bedding is not a permanent fix

Much of this can be cured by putting your M1A in a JAE stock, which pulls the receiver down against the aluminum skeleton. A National Match in a JAE stock will deliver consistent sub MOA groups with match ammo, a match tuned bolt will turn in groups of a 1/4 MOA or less in some cases...

esartori
02-28-2011, 7:29 AM
I say do it. If I had the cash, the next gun I would get would the m1a scout.

lelandEOD
02-28-2011, 7:41 AM
Just don't expect precision out of an M1A


That's relative.

You can make a M1A very accurate. M1A's are not as naturally accurate compared to a bolt rifle for obvious reasons. But, that is comparing apples to oranges. For a semi-auto .308 the M1A is a very good shooter. It can take some tweaking [which is half the fun] but the M1A can be an excellent target rifle.

kazman
02-28-2011, 8:22 AM
Got my Scout 2 years ago and haven't had a single FTE/FTF. The hammer did break on me after about 200 rounds but sent the trigger group back to Springfield and they replaced it quickly and free shipping etc.

IPSICK
02-28-2011, 10:25 AM
My friend has TWO custom M-14s (I will not name manufacturer) that he paid $6000+ for each gun! Both have forged receivers (which cost nearly $1K each) and I spoke to the manufacturer of forged receivers and he said you would have to shoot a LOT more than my friend does to ever see the difference between the forged and a cast Springfield receiver. Rather have a "loaded" and $1500 scope and 1.5$K worth of ammo!

This is one of the things that turns me off about the M1A, price. Although, I do understand the logic of cast being good enough for most shooting. I am lured by the quality of forged. Unfortunately, a receiver from the manufacturer you refuse to name (which I believe starts with elle and ends with are bee) sells the receiver between $800-1000. I wish USGI receivers were more readily available.

The other things that turned me off from the M14 was the heavy trigger (which I guess is required of this caliber battle rifle) and the magazine system (not used to how it dropped and attached).

I will say it is super accurate and I can't think of a more consistently effective battle round than the .308 Win.

lelandEOD
02-28-2011, 10:32 AM
This is one of the things that turns me off about the M1A, price. Although, I do understand the logic of cast being good enough for most shooting. I am lured by the quality of forged. Unfortunately, a receiver from the manufacturer you refuse to name (which I believe starts with elle and ends with are bee) sells the receiver between $800-1000. I wish USGI receivers were more readily available.

The other things that turned me off from the M14 was the heavy trigger (which I guess is required of this caliber battle rifle) and the magazine system (not used to how it dropped and attached).

I will say it is super accurate and I can't think of a more consistently effective battle round than the .308 Win.


To each his own. I have a late model SA Scout and an LRB M14SA. They both shoot great and I don't poop on SA just to justify my LRB.

I wanted a USGI gun and I picked up my LRB cheap. I think I may have one rifle I bought new. I almost always buy second hand.

E Pluribus Unum
02-28-2011, 10:40 AM
Just don't expect precision out of an M1A

Crap.

Because they are not intrinsically as accurate as the more stable, linear bolt actions and tube action ARS. The M14 bolt is a massive piece of metal that twists, the rear of a standard M14 receiver is totally unsupported -- even glass bedding is not a permanent fix

Much of this can be cured by putting your M1A in a JAE stock, which pulls the receiver down against the aluminum skeleton. A National Match in a JAE stock will deliver consistent sub MOA groups with match ammo, a match tuned bolt will turn in groups of a 1/4 MOA or less in some cases...

What do you consider accurate? You wont win any national long distance competitions with a basic, stock, M1A, but it is not uncommon for the stock Standard M1A to get 1 MOA groups. From a semi-auto, that is VERY accurate; more accurate than most shooters can shoot, even with a bolt gun.


This is one of the things that turns me off about the M1A, price. Although, I do understand the logic of cast being good enough for most shooting. I am lured by the quality of forged. Unfortunately, a receiver from the manufacturer you refuse to name (which I believe starts with elle and ends with are bee) sells the receiver between $800-1000. I wish USGI receivers were more readily available.

The other things that turned me off from the M14 was the heavy trigger (which I guess is required of this caliber battle rifle) and the magazine system (not used to how it dropped and attached).

I will say it is super accurate and I can't think of a more consistently effective battle round than the .308 Win.

Cast vs Forged simply is not an issue with the M14 variant. In my 10 years being actively involved in fellow shooters of this rifle, I have seen scores of rifles that were beaten to hell and back, gone through SEVERAL barrels, and NEVER have I seen a receiver that was worn out. With this type of rifle, there just is not very much stress or wear in the receiver. Additional lugs, and other things can greatly effect the accuracy of the rifle, but not the longevity of the receiver. Quite frankly, the cast v. forged war is fought by three groups of people: 1) The people who bought a cast SA receiver versus: 2) The people with the forged Chinese copy (Chicom), and 3) The people that paid $800+ for a "high quality" forged receiver.

If you have the money to afford a $3000+ custom rifle, by all means, buy the forged. If not, cast is fine; there is no difference in function when all other parts are equal.

IPSICK
02-28-2011, 10:51 AM
Therein lies the rub. I wasn't drawn in to the M14 to buy it with more cost-effective parts or more expensive components. Still a fantastic battle rifle and there may always be a small part of me that is tempted to get one, just not right now.

If I could find a used LRB w/ a rear lugged receiver for near to a new SA price, the pull would be stronger. I don't mind used at all for the right price.

lelandEOD
02-28-2011, 10:58 AM
Crap.



What do you consider accurate? You wont win any national long distance competitions with a basic, stock, M1A, but it is not uncommon for the stock Standard M1A to get 1 MOA groups. From a semi-auto, that is VERY accurate; more accurate than most shooters can shoot, even with a bolt gun.




Cast vs Forged simply is not an issue with the M14 variant. In my 10 years being actively involved in fellow shooters of this rifle, I have seen scores of rifles that were beaten to hell and back, gone through SEVERAL barrels, and NEVER have I seen a receiver that was worn out. With this type of rifle, there just is not very much stress or wear in the receiver. Additional lugs, and other things can greatly effect the accuracy of the rifle, but not the longevity of the receiver. Quite frankly, the cast v. forged war is fought by three groups of people: 1) The people who bought a cast SA receiver versus: 2) The people with the forged Chinese copy (Chicom), and 3) The people that paid $800+ for a "high quality" forged receiver.

If you have the money to afford a $3000+ custom rifle, by all means, buy the forged. If not, cast is fine; there is no difference in function when all other parts are equal.

I agree with you to a point.

The only thing you are forgetting to mention is that there are well documented problems with critical receiver dimensions on some commercially available cast receivers. It's not important unless you are trying to mount a scope on the receiver. Sadlak even offers a truing service where people can send in their M1A's to have the receiver trimmed/adjusted to correct the problems associated with getting the scope mount to sit correctly.

E Pluribus Unum
02-28-2011, 11:41 AM
I agree with you to a point.

The only thing you are forgetting to mention is that there are well documented problems with critical receiver dimensions on some commercially available cast receivers. It's not important unless you are trying to mount a scope on the receiver. Sadlak even offers a truing service where people can send in their M1A's to have the receiver trimmed/adjusted to correct the problems associated with getting the scope mount to sit correctly.

I agree with what you are saying... but that is not a cast v. forged issue; that is a Springfield Armory dimensions issue. Whether the receiver is cast, or forged, has no bearing on the dimensions of said receiver.

I know of absolutely NO M14 receiver issues of any manufacturer that is strictly a cast v. forged problem.

lelandEOD
02-28-2011, 11:57 AM
Ok, we can settle on that. :)

Although you have to admit, a forged receiver is going to be stronger than a cast receiver.
The US Army had their receivers forged for a reason. It's just a stronger manufacturing method.

We are really wallowing in the mud here and straying off topic.

For the sake of this discussion, the differences between the method of manufacture are negligible. No matter what you get, you'll be a happy guy.















of course, forged is still better

E Pluribus Unum
02-28-2011, 2:10 PM
Ok, we can settle on that. :)

Although you have to admit, a forged receiver is going to be stronger than a cast receiver.

This is absolutely true.... if you plan on using your receiver as a hammer.


The US Army had their receivers forged for a reason. It's just a stronger manufacturing method.

It certainly is, and in design they always WAY over engineer things. I would say greater than 90% of all ARs out there are not built to Milspec using Milspec tooling and manufacturing standards. I do not plan on using my receiver for anything other than a receiver, so there is no difference in function.

of course, forged is still better

Well, that brings up a whole other topic. Forged is better when under stress. I would argue that a forged paperweight is no better than a cast one of equal dimension and material.... :)

There is absolutely no difference in performance and longevity between a cast receiver, and a forged one (with an M14). In essence, the buyer is paying an extra $800-$1000 just to be able to say "I have a forged receiver." I'd rather have that $800-$1000 to spend on a trigger job, a good stock, and a gas system overhaul.

If you are super rich, already have every gun you want, and want to pay the $800-$1000 just to be able to tell a common man like me "neener neener" then more power to you... :)

Most likely, one would choose to go with an BRL (backwards) because of its true dimensions and dual rear lugs moreso on whether it was cast, or forged. I would argue that an BRL (backwards) dual lug receiver made from a casting would perform equally well and as long, except they do not offer one. :)

lelandEOD
02-28-2011, 2:20 PM
Ok, why are we not saying LRB? What am I missing?

E Pluribus Unum
02-28-2011, 2:22 PM
Ok, why are we not saying BRL? What am I missing?

I'm not sure... someone else started it... and I was thinking with recent posts about being sued for copyright, I would simply follow suit.

odysseus
02-28-2011, 2:22 PM
You guys... thread drift. The cast/forged stuff always goes on and on and on.......

E Pluribus Unum
02-28-2011, 2:25 PM
You guys... thread drift. The cast/forged stuff always goes on and on and on.......

It is the quest for vindication. It is VERY important for potential M1A owners to KNOW the difference. If all anyone ever wants to shoot is 1 inch groups at 100 meters, he doesn't need a dual-rear-lugged $800 receiver. There are many SA non-lugged receivers shooting sub MOA. I would hate to have a newby buy that super duper $800 receiver, not for the rear lugs, not for the "truer dimensions", but because it was forged, when there's never been a cast receiver that "wore out".

lelandEOD
02-28-2011, 3:09 PM
You guys... thread drift. The cast/forged stuff always goes on and on and on.......


"Waive off!!! Waive off!!!"

H2O MAN
02-28-2011, 4:21 PM
It is the quest for vindication. It is VERY important for potential M1A owners to KNOW the difference. If all anyone ever wants to shoot is 1 inch groups at 100 meters, he doesn't need a dual-rear-lugged $800 receiver. There are many SA non-lugged receivers shooting sub MOA. I would hate to have a newby buy that super duper $800 receiver, not for the rear lugs, not for the "truer dimensions", but because it was forged, when there's never been a cast receiver that "wore out".

The quest for "truer dimensions" was once mine, I found them in a receiver
that just happened to be forged... I consider this an added bonus, nothing more.

Legasat
02-28-2011, 4:27 PM
The bottom line is, if you choose to purchase an SA M1A, you will love it.

E Pluribus Unum
02-28-2011, 4:48 PM
The quest for "truer dimensions" was once mine, I found them in a receiver
that just happened to be forged... I consider this an added bonus, nothing more.

...and that is completely healthy... :)

The bottom line is, if you choose to purchase an SA M1A, you will love it.

Amen brother!

23 Blast
03-16-2011, 12:47 AM
The bottom line is, if you choose to purchase an SA M1A, you will love it.

Abso-freakin-lutely. I bought my Springfield M1A about three years ago, after a brief flirtation with the FAL design, and my M1A just impressed me from Day One. Solidly built, wonderful fit and finish, but the love affair was consummated once I shot that puppy. Mine is the Loaded model with the full length NM barrel, and even with iron sights it's wonderfully accurate. The trigger on mine is very crisp, helping to improve accuracy - I can shoot it much more precisely than my scoped bolt action Savage in the same caliber.

Just a great, great gun. Buy one now, you will not regret it.

Noobie
03-16-2011, 8:20 AM
AFAIK there is not one documented case of a receiver failure due to being cast. I also have not found any complaints from LRB owners due to price.
Buy an SA, shoot, shoot, shoot, then start a collection like XNY.

M.C.
03-16-2011, 8:29 AM
I love my M1A. Absolutely no complaints.

E Pluribus Unum
04-25-2011, 9:03 PM
Not another Cast v Forged M1A debate.... It's been beaten to death; here is my view on it:


This is going to turn into a VERY long thread. This is because there is a long-standing war between Springfield Armory (SA) fans, and those that do not own a SA. I have a well-educated theory on why:

The Forged/Cast debate started many many moons ago with the import of Chinese M14 rifles. Back in the 80's, a Chicom or Polytech M14 copy could be had for $250.00 while the Springfield Armory rifle was much more expensive. These early SA rifles were all USGI, and were very high quality rifles, so the extra expense was well-deserved.

Towards the late 90's, USGI parts started to dry up, so SA started making reproduction cast parts, in addition to the cast receiver they had already been making. Even though the reproduction parts were not USGI, the price of their rifles actually began to increase, while the Chinese copies did increase as well, it was not proportionate to the SA increase. People who bought these cheaper rifles often got into debates with those that had spent the money for the SA brand name. The biggest thing that these guys held on to was that their Chinese receiver was forged, made from original tooling sold to China by the US. They often argued (rightfully so) that their Chinese copy was "more original" than the US cast receiver/rifle. After all, the Chinese rifle was a forged receiver built on original US tools; can't get much closer than that; the rifles were actually cheaper than the SA product as well.

Enter LRB, Smith, Enterprise, et cetera. In the late 90's with the decline of the use of USGI parts by SA, and the increase of demand and price, other companies also saw higher demand. There were those that wanted to splurge on a more expensive rifle. These rifles were often built from 100% USGI parts on forged receivers. They were 50-100% more than the SA rifles. So, the stage was set for a major war:

There were basically two sides: SA owned the market share and sold more M14 variants than anyone else. They were the middle-priced rifles. Between those that bought the less expensive Chinese rifles, and those that splurged for the extremely accurate tack driver built on LRB/Smith/Enterprise receivers, the only thing they had in common was that they were built on forged receivers. As such, the battle lines were drawn, and the great battle of forged v cast was started, and it has never stopped since.

Here is the funny part: whether a receiver is cast or forged has absolutely NO bearing on the functionality and longevity of the weapon. There has NEVER been a cast receiver that "wore out". With the M14 variant of rifles, there just is not that much stress or wear in the receiver. Since about 2002, SA has had some quality control issues; I remember several years ago, they even sent thousands of rifles to the stores stamped "Springfield Aromry" and some of their receivers still today have dimensional issues with the scope mount area that makes mounting a scope more difficult. While these issues do say something about the quality of the receiver, it is strictly NOT a cast v. forged issue. It is a quality assurance issue that would exist regardless of whether it was cast or forged.

So where do I stand on all of this? No one has ever made a garbage M14. While some definitely are better than others, it has very little to do with the receiver, and absolutely nothing to do with whether it was cast, or forged. You have to evaluate the strengths of each rifle individually. It is not uncommon to get a 1 MOA or better rifle out of the box; the fact is, most will shoot better then their owners can. Any M14 smith can tell you, with the appropriate amount of money, a good smith can easily build a sub-moa M14 on any cast SA receiver. So, buy a standard M14 variant, shoot the crap out of it; and when you get so good that you can shoot better than 6 inch groups at 500 meters, spend the money to upgrade the one you have. If you want a receiver that has dual rear lugs, or is dimensionally perfect in every way, then by all means, buy the LRB, but don't buy it simply because it's forged. Forged v cast only matters if you plan on using your receiver as a hammer; I am content buying the cheaper cast receiver, and buying a cheap hammer at Harbor Freight. You would be much better off purchasing a cast rifle, and spending the extra $800 on upgrades.

lelandEOD
04-25-2011, 9:17 PM
Oh, I don't think this will turn into a huge debate. Everyone knows if you own a cast M1A you are basically taking your life into your own hands. If I see someone shooting one at the range, I either move 50 foot away or take a break until they are done.

:D

axhoaxho
04-25-2011, 9:36 PM
Love my M1A Scout Squad. It is a keeper.