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View Full Version : Do I need a 16" carbine anymore?


thetaxman
02-26-2011, 6:29 PM
I've been running a PWS 10.5" upper on TWO registered lowers (pistol here in CA and as an SBR out of state).

I have found no difference between this and my 16" VTAC M&P's in terms of accuracy, reliability, functionality, ease of use etc.

So, do I get rid of all the 16" carbines and switch to 3 versions of the short barrel set up (I always had 3 of my primary go to weapon)?

Folks, what have I missed in my thought process?

(I do have long range rifles, shotguns, pistols etc. Just focusing on primary AR type platform.)

OHW
02-26-2011, 7:12 PM
Tough one there. 16" is handy for us that don't have your problem.

IMO an 18" which is said by some to be ideal for complete powder burn in a .223 would be a nice rifle option. Or just step up to a 20" for sharp shooting at longer ranges. Of course keep every SBR and pistol you can obtain legally.

Dirty506
02-26-2011, 7:17 PM
well if you dont know what to do with those uppers 16" or 10.5" i can do a thing or 2 to them and make it worth your while:) they would look great in my rack

thetaxman
02-26-2011, 7:25 PM
Tough one there. 16" is handy for us that don't have your problem.

IMO an 18" which is said by some to be ideal for complete powder burn in a .223 would be a nice rifle option. Or just step up to a 20" for sharp shooting at longer ranges. Of course keep every SBR and pistol you can obtain legally.

Like this answer. Have a scoped 18-20" AR-15 and 10.5" on the rest.

Now just need to work out how to get a .308 pistol put together - PWS Mk2 12.5" upper is next on the wish list.

dieselpower
02-26-2011, 9:25 PM
I've been running a PWS 10.5" upper on a registered lower (pistol here in CA and as an SBR out of state).
I have found no difference between this and my 16" VTAC M&P's in terms of accuracy, reliability, functionality, ease of use etc.

So, do I get rid of all the 16" carbines and switch to 3 versions of the short barrel set up (I always had 3 of my primary go to weapon)?

Folks, what have I missed in my thought process?

(I do have long range rifles, shotguns, pistols etc. Just focusing on primary AR type platform.)

well...how about a felony firearms conviction...

once a rifle...ALWAYS a rifle.
you just admitted to turning an SBR into a pistol...which in itself earns you 10 years in the big house.

also ...there is no way you can shoot a 10.5" pistol as good as a 16" carbine...without a stock.

now that you used proper english, I will change my post.

next time proof read.

SureShot241
02-26-2011, 9:28 PM
well...how about a felony firearms conviction...

once a rifle...ALWAYS a rifle.
you just admitted to turning an SBR into a pistol...which in itself earns you 10 years in the big house.

also ...there is no way you can shoot a 10.5" pistol as good as a 16" carbine...without a stock.

Very true what hes saying

Lone_Gunman
02-26-2011, 9:56 PM
Easy there guys. He's running the 10.5 upper on 2 different lowers. Pistol in CA, SBR out of state. The upper isn't the firearm. The lowers are.

dieselpower
02-26-2011, 10:11 PM
Easy there guys. He's running the 10.5 upper on 2 different lowers. Pistol in CA, SBR out of state. The upper isn't the firearm. The lowers are.

then he needs to change what he said....

then I will change what I quoted...


I've been running a PWS 10.5" upper on a registered lower (pistol here in CA and as an SBR out of state).

I dont see a "s" after the word lower.

So unless he changes his post, my advice to him is...you registered a lower as a pistol in CA, that was registered as a rifle out of state. Thats not going to fly with the ATF when they catch what you did. Call a lawyer now. You just committed a felony.

EDIT--- Done.

thetaxman
02-26-2011, 10:27 PM
No lawyers needed here so ease up on the felony slinging.

Separately registered lowers under the respective legislation. Been around long enough to know what is and what isn't legal.

So, any thoughts on the original question?

Roccobro
02-26-2011, 10:49 PM
then he needs to change what he said....

then I will change what I quoted...


I dont see a "s" after the word lower.

So unless he changes his post, my advice to him is...you registered a lower as a pistol in CA, that was registered as a rifle out of state. Thats not going to fly with the ATF when they catch what you did. Call a lawyer now. You just committed a felony.


The time has come. :D

Justin

bb2007
02-26-2011, 10:51 PM
it comes down to terminal ballistics.

the 5.56 round ideally fragments at velocities > 2400 fps (if i am slightly off, please do not nitpick).

the barrel length that you run will determine your max effective "fragmentation" range.

if you are only slaying paper, then a 10.5" upper will suffice for all intensive purposes. if you are actually going into harms way, the longer barrel will extend your effective range without sacrificing too much in the way of handling (with the exception of CQB or vehicle mounted operations.)

MrPlink
02-26-2011, 11:01 PM
Well what about the mk18?
That's 10.5 and I thought its effective range was circa 300m?
That's not a bad effective range, minus sniper fantasies

Colt-45
02-26-2011, 11:03 PM
it comes down to terminal ballistics.

the 5.56 round ideally fragments at velocities > 2400 fps (if i am slightly off, please do not nitpick).

the barrel length that you run will determine your max effective "fragmentation" range.

if you are only slaying paper, then a 10.5" upper will suffice for all intensive purposes. if you are actually going into harms way, the longer barrel will extend your effective range without sacrificing too much in the way of handling (with the exception of CQB or vehicle mounted operations.)

This. :iagree:

There might be no difference when punching paper. But when punching through flesh at a distance there will certainly be a difference.

missiontrails
02-27-2011, 1:12 AM
That's why I own 14.5" with pinned hiders, because that's as short as I can go without leaving the range in handcuffs. I would go shorter if I could.

Toast
02-27-2011, 1:21 AM
Well what about the mk18?
That's 10.5 and I thought its effective range was circa 300m?
That's not a bad effective range, minus sniper fantasies

It'll still put holes in ya at 300 yards, but with a 10.5 inch barrel (and mk262, the good stuff) fragmentation range will be less then 50 yards. It won't even get enough velocity directly out of the barrel to fragment with xm193, m855... forget about it.

slick_711
02-27-2011, 7:01 AM
It'll still put holes in ya at 300 yards, but with a 10.5 inch barrel (and mk262, the good stuff) fragmentation range will be less then 50 yards. It won't even get enough velocity directly out of the barrel to fragment with xm193, m855... forget about it.

Where are the numbers that show reliable mk262 fragmentation at any distance? I'm not saying they don't exist but I haven't seen them.

OP, you need an 18" SPR type build to compliment the 10.5". I'm waiting on approval for my first SBR and am planning on a 12.5" barrel, mainly because I don't intend to build another AR anytime soon and I wanted something that was a good compromise of ballistics, balance, and would be less abusive on an suppressor.

docsmileyface
02-27-2011, 8:57 AM
Well what about the mk18?
That's 10.5 and I thought its effective range was circa 300m?
That's not a bad effective range, minus sniper fantasies

Mk18 must be doing something right if all the SOCOM guys decide they want it over the 14.5" M4A1s in Afghanistan.

bb2007
02-27-2011, 9:16 AM
socom guys (ie. seals) are issued 2 uppers. a mk18 and an m4 upper. that says something about the recognized limitation of the 10.5" barrel.