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Alex$
02-26-2011, 9:51 AM
Never have parked anything, but I have two CZ's and two AK's that will need parking, figured cheapest way is for me to do it myself.

I have the basics for parkerizing down by doing online research, small parts or complete pistols, break them down and tape off parts you don't want parked. (e.g. contact points on frame and slide)

For larger parts, do you leave them assembled? The barrel of an AK, would you park the whole thing? Plug all the holes and dunk it?

What tape will hold up to 190 degree acid? I was thinking electrical tape.

Your insight is appreciated as always.

kendog4570
02-26-2011, 10:34 AM
No need to mask anything except the bore. Others may disagree, but properly done, phosphating doesnt affect areas like slide rails and bolt lugs. In fact, it increases porosity and holds lubricants that help these faces seat together. After several cycles the phosphating is gone from contact surfaces.

Alex$
02-26-2011, 12:24 PM
Thanks for the response, found an old thread archived on parking.

So I should install all the barrel components, blast it assembled and then park the whole works, correct?

kendog4570
02-26-2011, 12:35 PM
You can do assembies of parts, Like the M16 barrels from Colt when the FSB is pulled you can see where there is no phosphating under the base. The most important thing is the parts must be CLEAN and GREASE FREE to insure proper coverage and appearance. If you are working on a gas gun without chrome bore, you can imerse it in the bath with no concern. If the bore is unplated, then it is strongly advised to plug the bore and seal the gas hole. That would mean dissassembling and doing individual parts.

TURBOELKY
02-26-2011, 12:39 PM
You can do assemblies of parts, Like the M16 barrels from Colt when the FSB is pulled you can see where there is no phosphate under the base. The most important thing is the parts must be CLEAN and GREASE FREE to insure proper coverage and appearance. If you are working on a gas gun with a chrome bore, you can immerse it in the bath with no concern. If the bore is un-plated, then it is strongly advised to plug the bore and seal the gas hole. That would mean disassembling and doing individual parts.

fixed for ya.

Alex$
02-26-2011, 12:47 PM
Excellent information...

So, does anyone know if duct tape will stick through the parking?

I have a non-chrome lined virgin US made barrel that I cold blued and I hate the look, so I need to strip it and park it.

CSACANNONEER
02-26-2011, 12:50 PM
The cheapest and easiest way to parkerize would be to contact the host of the nearest AK build party and ask if you could attend to sandblast and parkerize your guns. The build party fees will be a lot cheaper than buying a tank, burner, parkerizing solution, distilled water, blast cabinet, abrassive media, etc. You'll also find people there to help make sure that you do it right.

To plug a non chrome lined barrel, you can use rubber "corks". Don't forget to plug your gas port!!!!!! I'm planning on trying silicone caulking for the breach, muzzle and gas tube but, I haven't tried it yet. So, I can't comment on how it'll work.

kendog4570
02-26-2011, 12:53 PM
fixed for ya.

Thanks!

kendog4570
02-26-2011, 12:57 PM
To plug a non chrome lined barrel, you can use rubber "corks". Don't forget to plug your gas port!!!!!! I'm planning on trying silicone caulking for the breach, muzzle and gas tube but, I haven't tried it yet. So, I can't comment on how it'll work.


I use neoprene plugs available at lab supply places. Tried a long threaded rod through them, but it always leaked. Just get them on the tight side and work them in. RTV will work to plug gas ports, but use a really good grade and clean the area thouroughly.
I used to go through all the trouble to mask bolt faces and lugs, but I figure if the Naval Weapons boys at Crane, and the AMU didn't mask these areas on match M14's during a rebuild, it probably isnt necessary.

Alex$
02-26-2011, 3:10 PM
Most of the build parties are too far for me to drive. I already am set up with a decent shop, so the only thing I need buy is chemicals and a $9.00 galvanized tub.

The duct tape comment was a half joke, I have read of people using it though.

Kendog, will normal silicone sealant work or would RTV be required? (just wondering as I have an open tube of silicone, but no RTV)

cj cake
02-26-2011, 3:17 PM
To plug a non chrome lined barrel, you can use rubber "corks". Don't forget to plug your gas port!!!!!!

I have used lacquer. Just take some ordinary lacquer and use it to coat anything you want masked. You can paint it on or pour in the barrel or gas port. After it drains out and drys, you are masked. After the park job is done, soak for a few minutes in laquer thinner and you good to go.

Alex$
02-26-2011, 3:27 PM
I have used lacquer. Just take some ordinary lacquer and use it to coat anything you want masked. You can paint it on or pour in the barrel or gas port. After it drains out and drys, you are masked. After the park job is done, soak for a few minutes in laquer thinner and you good to go.

Heck of an idea, I may do that.

I will have to experiment with a couple things, I just read the silicone temperature rating and it is 400 degrees at the upper range.

Probably end up with a combination.

CSACANNONEER
02-26-2011, 3:36 PM
Most of the build parties are too far for me to drive. I already am set up with a decent shop, so the only thing I need buy is chemicals and a $9.00 galvanized tub.


NO!!!!!!! You need a stainless tank for parkerizing! 170 degrees is a good target temperature. We use regular cooking thermometers and keep adjusting the flames to regulate the temp. I just found glass candy thermometers at my local 97 cent store and bought a bunch. If you want one, PM me your address and I'll drop one in the mail for you.

bigbob76
02-26-2011, 3:36 PM
I have to admit I never understood what negative effect Parkerizing a non chrome lined bore would have.

CSACANNONEER
02-26-2011, 3:39 PM
I have to admit I never understood what negative effect Parkerizing a non chrome lined bore would have.

It etches the rifling. Parkerizing is an enhanced oxidation process so, it's just like getting allowing your bore to completely rust. It's not the best idea in the world.

Alex$
02-26-2011, 4:49 PM
NO!!!!!!! You need a stainless tank for parkerizing! 170 degrees is a good target temperature. We use regular cooking thermometers and keep adjusting the flames to regulate the temp. I just found glass candy thermometers at my local 97 cent store and bought a bunch. If you want one, PM me your address and I'll drop one in the mail for you.

Hmmm, I got mixed up on what I can use for a tub, thanks for clarifying.

I will have to source a stainless dish long enough, I am thinking restaurant supply chafing dish.

Thank you for the offer on the thermometer, but through beer making, wine making, photography, baking and cooking I have quite a collection of thermometers. Most are just sitting gathering dust, not sure why I have to buy stuff and then box it according to the hobby of the day. I will pull the candy thermometer out of the box.

Again, thanks for the wisdom.

Squashua
02-27-2011, 12:17 PM
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z419/squash762/a6c46d10.jpg

i have a chrome lined barrel.. but i still used wood dowels to plug the barrel.. they worked really well..

Alex$
02-27-2011, 12:59 PM
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z419/squash762/a6c46d10.jpg

i have a chrome lined barrel.. but i still used wood dowels to plug the barrel.. they worked really well..

Very nice setup you have there. Are you using something to keep the assembly off the bottom of your tank?

Squashua
02-27-2011, 1:20 PM
yeah i have stainless wire holding it off the bottom.. it worked really well.!

smoothy8500
02-27-2011, 1:33 PM
I've used a section of coated rain gutter on the Bar Be Que to do a barrel as a low cost parking tank.

Alex$
02-28-2011, 6:30 PM
Direction change, found the Brownells guide to parking on their website (why do they not have a download section?).

After reading their directions on how to park, I think since I am not doing large numbers of firearms, (more likely one at a time) I am going to use a stainless pot for small parts (dog bowl sitting unused) and schedule 40 PVC for long parts.

The heat will probably negatively affect the PVC for multiple uses, but I won't be doing this commercially.

FYI, the silicone coats well for blasting and I imagine it will help to seal the barrel during parking. It peels off nicely when done, leaving a clean surface.

Thanks all for the insight, if there is interest I will post my after action report. I will be using a home brew recipe and "garage engineering" to accomplish this.

bigbob76
02-28-2011, 9:43 PM
Direction change, found the Brownells guide to parking on their website (why do they not have a download section?).

After reading their directions on how to park, I think since I am not doing large numbers of firearms, (more likely one at a time) I am going to use a stainless pot for small parts (dog bowl sitting unused) and schedule 40 PVC for long parts.

The heat will probably negatively affect the PVC for multiple uses, but I won't be doing this commercially.

FYI, the silicone coats well for blasting and I imagine it will help to seal the barrel during parking. It peels off nicely when done, leaving a clean surface.

Thanks all for the insight, if there is interest I will post my after action report. I will be using a home brew recipe and "garage engineering" to accomplish this.

It will probably turn out fine. If you don't like the results you can just do it again and it will be darker.

Alex$
03-28-2011, 4:57 PM
So I ended up using some scrap aluminum flashing, I lined it with 3 mil plastic and silicone. All worked fine, including when the plastic stuck to my shims and tore in a small spot. The aluminum didn't seem to be affected at all. (weird)

Home made tank working:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=91861&stc=1&d=1301358209

Results and a couple observations/problem:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=91862&d=1301357840
The mag lock came out very dark black, this was what I was looking to accomplish with them all. I realize that different metals will take parking differently, I wonder if re-blasting and parking will darken the barrel and receiver? I blasted the heck out of the mag lock, (100 psi and went to town) for the barrel I was a little hesitant and only used 75 psi. The receiver was done at 75 and a little more heavily than the barrel. Speaking of the receiver:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=91863&d=1301357851
When I received the NDS receivers I noticed the discoloration on them, I thought it was the oil/grease preservative that was causing a mottling on the metal. The first receiver I blued, the discoloration is still there just not very evident, you have to hold it in sunlight and you can see it. With this pakerized one it is very evident. So I wonder is the discoloration a result of the heat treat and I won't be able to park over it?

homemade
03-29-2011, 9:15 PM
95% of the parking is the blasting be very very picky when you blast or you will get spots like the post above.
After your done blasting take it out not with your hands use paper towel clean one or I use rubber gloves.
Blow the dust off.
Spray with rubbing alcohol wire up then dunk in the solution.
we use 190Degrees until the parts quit bubbling shake them a little once in a while to dislodge bubbles.
Rinse with fresh water
blow dry with air then coat liberally with oil of choice I likr to use WD 40 at first it displaces water well.

bigbob76
03-30-2011, 5:27 AM
95% of the parking is the blasting be very very picky when you blast or you will get spots like the post above.
After your done blasting take it out not with your hands use paper towel clean one or I use rubber gloves.
Blow the dust off.
Spray with rubbing alcohol wire up then dunk in the solution.
we use 190Degrees until the parts quit bubbling shake them a little once in a while to dislodge bubbles.
Rinse with fresh water
blow dry with air then coat liberally with oil of choice I likr to use WD 40 at first it displaces water well.

Cheap aerosol brake cleaner is handy for degreasing too.

I have mixed feelings about rinsing with water afterwards. It sometimes produces flash rust. I have not experienced any problems with going straight from tank to 30 weight oil bath.

homemade
03-30-2011, 6:31 AM
when you pull it straight out of the solution you wont get flash rust your rinsing with water to stop the process because even though you pulled the part out of the tank the process is still happening as long as there is some solution left on the part.

Alex$
03-30-2011, 7:46 AM
So I may be able to blast the metal again and get a flat color? Just don't be tentative and blast the heck out of it?

I did all that you mentioned homemade, rubber gloves the whole time, brake cleaner between steps, completely degrease parts before blast and before acid. The receiver looked flat with no hint of discoloration before going in tank.

bigbob76
03-30-2011, 7:49 PM
when you pull it straight out of the solution you wont get flash rust your rinsing with water to stop the process because even though you pulled the part out of the tank the process is still happening as long as there is some solution left on the part.

I don't believe the Parkerizing process does any thing to prevent rust other than holding a thin film of oil if there is oil present. And yes I have seen flash rust.

homemade
03-30-2011, 7:55 PM
ok i just have not seen any flash rust on a newly parked item fresh out of the tank we rinse and oil soon after.
now straight out of the blast cabinet yes it happens fast

hooptytank
03-30-2011, 10:09 PM
A few questions:
As the solution stays heated for long periods of time such as during a BP and water evaporates, do you add only water or mixed water and parking solution?

would it be advisable to cover the park tank with a lid (vented of course) to capture some of the vapor?

how do you keep the scale that forms during the process from sticking to the finish. even brushing it off while in the tank some of the crud sticks to the finished parts leaving a slightly rough finish.

We The People Firearms
04-02-2011, 8:53 AM
1. Yes, just add more water if needed.
2. I cover mine with foil to reduce evap, which = using less gas, etc., and it helps me keep a cconstant temp.
3. Do't worry about the yellow junk/scale. It's not hurting anything. Just go in with a pair of tongs every once in awhile and shake it off if it bothers you. BUT, when you pull the parts out to rinse, it is important to get that stuff off asap and oil.

Alex$
04-16-2011, 2:46 PM
Well, attempt number two ended up with degreasing with Simple Green and brake cleaner prior to park. Holy mess, came out worse than the first time! Rust formed on some of the parts, there was residual grease/oil that caused a nice orange pattern over much of the receivers and mag locks and it just looked like crap.

Attempt three was Purple Power as a degreaser, a dip in boiling water prior to park and for one of the receivers a quick cleaning with brake cleaner as a test to see if it does leave residue.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=94280&d=1302990119]

The problem receiver pictured in previous post, (NDS3) came out much better with no clean up using brake cleaner. Nice even coverage and I am happy with the result.

The AK-builder flat shows signs of the annealing at the x and y pin holes. Also the oxy/ace welds showed up different even after normalizing them.

So, additional question: Has anyone cold blued over phosphate finish? I did a couple test pieces and it turns out black, just wondering about how well it would last.

And finally, thanks again for the knowledge.

SJgunguy24
04-16-2011, 3:59 PM
Degrease, acetone, heat, acetone again, then blast. Blow off dust and crap, acetone, heat, acetone again then apply finish. The heat will draw out any oil or other gunk, and I get.dry acetone from a auto paint supply shop.

bigbob76
04-16-2011, 5:21 PM
Are you sandblasting first?

Alex$
04-16-2011, 7:43 PM
Are you sandblasting first?

Yes, this was the third time I blasted the NDS3 and the second time for the flat.

The flat is now well on its way to being a blonde dongless Romy. With any luck I can finish my honey-do list and knock it out tomorrow. (minus finishing the honey blonde stock, it's drying right now)

KaliS12
04-18-2011, 7:35 PM
In regards to the yellow white scaling/mineral build up, how do you remove the excess scaling after parkerizing? I didn't see the the build up until I began to put together my ak a few days later.

bigbob76
04-18-2011, 7:52 PM
In regards to the yellow white scaling/mineral build up, how do you remove the excess scaling after parkerizing? I didn't see the the build up until I began to put together my ak a few days later.

I skip the water rinse that most guys do after removing it from the hot solution. I go straight to soaking it with cheap motor oil. Once it is thoroughly soaked I rub off any white crud with an oil rag. I roll it up dripping with oil in a towel. When I'm ready to do assembly I just wipe it off and get busy.

Roccobro
04-18-2011, 10:25 PM
Well, attempt number two ended up with degreasing with Simple Green and brake cleaner prior to park. Holy mess, came out worse than the first time! Rust formed on some of the parts, there was residual grease/oil that caused a nice orange pattern over much of the receivers and mag locks and it just looked like crap.

Attempt three was Purple Power as a degreaser, a dip in boiling water prior to park and for one of the receivers a quick cleaning with brake cleaner as a test to see if it does leave residue.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=94280&d=1302990119]

The problem receiver pictured in previous post, (NDS3) came out much better with no clean up using brake cleaner. Nice even coverage and I am happy with the result.

The AK-builder flat shows signs of the annealing at the x and y pin holes. Also the oxy/ace welds showed up different even after normalizing them.

So, additional question: Has anyone cold blued over phosphate finish? I did a couple test pieces and it turns out black, just wondering about how well it would last.

And finally, thanks again for the knowledge.

You can really see the warp in the top receiver in that pic. Looks like she's been a headache (aside from the poor park) from the get go.

Justin

Alex$
04-18-2011, 10:55 PM
You can really see the warp in the top receiver in that pic. Looks like she's been a headache (aside from the poor park) from the get go.

Justin

The warp in the top flat is from the oxy/ace welding, (don't have a spot welder) I straightened most all of the warp with a bending tool I made. Just finished putting it all together, minus the front sight pin, it cycles nicely. Waiting on a chance to test fire and sight it in.

If I manage to get through the last two kits sitting in pieces and still am interested in AK's I may invest in a spot welder. I want to try welding the rails in before bending, that way I can do a better job from the inside only. If the welding from the inside doesn't make me happy I am going down the spot route.

If I am still AK addicted I may also have to invest in a better forge to normalize the whole receiver... I think I have OCD.

*EDIT* The bigger forge would be for heat treating the entire receiver

SVT-40
04-19-2011, 6:42 PM
Usually it's not considered proper to use aluminum for a park tank, as the acid will eat the metal. Maybe that could be effecting your results?

Also if you CZ's frames are made from an aluminum alloy they cannot be parked.

No you cannot blue over park.